[peaches100]

I am a person who has suffered alot of emotional and other abuse in my life. I have been in therapy for quite awhile with a good therapist and have made good strides in several areas. However, I feel the need to create conflicts with her, as the stirred up emotions (though negative) make me feel as if our relationship is alive. It is almost as if I need to be emotionally hurting about her in order to feel close. I also at times have told her that I wish she would hurt me (emotionally). Although I know it would devastate me terribly, another part of me feels that it is "the way it should be" and perhaps wants to suffer.

I'm sure that this is dysfunctional and comes from the traumas I went through as a child. But I can't seem to stop feeling this way. When there are no intense emotions being stirred up in the therapeutic relationship, I begin to fear that there is no relationship, that I don't mean anything to my therapist, and that she will forget about me. Although I have needed all my life to have a supportive, caring, listening ear, now that I have that with my therapist, I do not know how to let myself enjoy it. It's hard to relax, trust, and go with the flow of our work because in some ways, I am always waiting for the rejection or abandonment that feels sure to come. My therapist has been great at proving to me her trustworthiness. But my urge to stir things up and/or sabotage the relationship continue. It is like I have a self-destructive part of myself that refuses to allow me to benefit from a therapeutic relationship that I know could be healing for me.

Does anybody relate? Any advice?

Peaches

Originally Posted by peaches100

I am always waiting for the rejection or abandonment that feels sure to come.

I think a lot of people here can relate to this feeling. I know I can. Often when I have difficult times with the therapy relationship it is because I interpret situations one way and then assume my T is rejecting me. I have learned over time that a lot of that has to do with my expectations, not necessarily her actual feelings.

I think you are completely right that your past experiences make you expect a certain outcome or even crave a certain type of relationship. It sounds like maybe you're trying to make this relationship be more like your past experiences, because that is what you are used to and that is what feels familiar and important/intense to you? I don't have any great advice there, except that the fact that you recognize this pattern is a big deal. The more you recognize this, the more you will probably catch yourself when it's happening, and ask yourself if that's what you really want. Maybe with time you'll start to feel like all those emotionally intense/conflict-filled relationships are just too exhausting, and that a different more supportive, warm, consistent one is nice too? I don't know. But I think you're on the right track with realizing these things about yourself.

[RiverX]

Hi,
I think my experience has a bearing on this.

I used to fall in love with guys who I knew I'd never agree with and then I'd fight and we'd conflict all the time. YET, just before going to meet, I'd feel at total peace, at one with the universe, like I had come home.

Many years later, after years trying to get recovery, I found out it was called 'intrapsychic structure'. The strucure inside me was what i was trying to resolve, so I'd be not content until I was in one of 'those' relationships, yet I'd be destraught with obsession and need when in the relationship. The 'other' would represent part of this structure. The 'structure' involves an internalised 'bad' other. So I needed to meet the representation of this in order to fight, heal or fix this, or resove the conflict after having touched base with the conflict, something that was inconsolable inside that needed resolution.

It was only after naming this disorder and understanding the deeper manifestations of this, that I even began to be able to open the door to recovery.
I'm not saying this is all the same for you, but you may relate to some. I can tell you more about this if you'd like, welcome to pm. me

riverx

[SpottedOwl]

Hi Peaches!

I agree with notme, just the fact that you are asking these questions is huge.

What is it you want from the conflict?
You said 'to feel the relationship is alive'.
That want to feel alive and connected to people is one of our core needs. Maybe what you see as 'self-destructive' is actually you just trying to get what you need with the tools you have available? Maybe it isn't something to fight?

If it isn't something to fight, it becomes much easier to deal with. Love that part of yourself, because it is working very hard - it just needs to learn some new ways of expressing itself.

I would definitely talk with T about this and explore any fears you have over not having conflict. Often times once those fears can be explored, the behavior will slowly change itself.

Just having this community can also be a great help...the folks here are wonderful. Welcome and thanks for posting!

[pachyderm]

> fears... over not having conflict

I can relate to this! I have conflicts with my T and can resolve them only when I disagree with him and can tolerate that. That is, I keep my ideas that are different from T's and my perception of him as being less than totally wonderful. I am increasingly able to be separate from him. If not, I would start to be submerged in him and lose my own identity which is quite distinct from him.

If that makes sense.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

> fears... over not having conflict

I can relate to this! I have conflicts with my T and can resolve them only when I disagree with him and can tolerate that. That is, I keep my ideas that are different from T's and my perception of him as being less than totally wonderful. I am increasingly able to be separate from him. If not, I would start to be submerged in him and lose my own identity which is quite distinct from him.

I understand what you are saying Pachy. Are you interested in maintaining your seperate identity in an easier way?

[Sannah]

Peaches just you being aware of this and discussing it with your T is major! Good work. I am sure you are on your way to resolving this. Sounds like you have mentioned all the components of this issue in your post. Keep up your work on this and you will understand why you do it and how you will change it.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Sannah

Are you interested in maintaining your seperate identity in an easier way?

Why natch, if you know one. Easier than what?

[Sannah]

Maybe explain it again Pachy. I admit some of it can be clearer to me.

[pachyderm]

Explain -- what?

I am perfectly clear in my own mind...

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

> fears... over not having conflict

So the conflict brings peace?

I have conflicts with my T and can resolve them only when I disagree with him and can tolerate that.

So if you cannot tolerate it then what happens?

I keep my ideas that are different from T's and my perception of him as being less than totally wonderful.

So you feel bad about this?

I am increasingly able to be separate from him.

Because you can disagree with him?

If not, I would start to be submerged in him and lose my own identity which is quite distinct from him.

..........

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Sannah

> fears... over not having conflict

So the conflict brings peace?

The first part was a quote, not directly from me. But the fear, for me at least, is that I will have to agree, and not be able to disagree. In that sense, conflict is better than submission and a false peace.

Originally Posted by Sannah

I have conflicts with my T and can resolve them only when I disagree with him and can tolerate that.

So if you cannot tolerate it then what happens?

If I cannot tolerate my separateness and disagreement, then I am in big trouble; I have to agree and submit my own thinking to his, or spiral into an internal obsessive argument.

Originally Posted by Sannah

I keep my ideas that are different from T's and my perception of him as being less than totally wonderful.

So you feel bad about this?

It is somewhat difficult for me to keep my ideas; I feel the need to agree with his (and anyone else's). There is a conflict between keeping my ideas and wanting to agree with other peoples'. When I am able to keep my ideas it basically feels good (though possibly dangerous), even when I have to disagree with others.

Originally Posted by Sannah

I am increasingly able to be separate from him.

Because you can disagree with him?

Not because. But I find myself increasingly able to separate myself from others and stand my ground even sometimes when people feel the need to dictate my actions.

I have the sense that I am not talking about something that is familiar to you -- the requirement to submit to another's control. In childhood it was a battle to try to keep some control for myself and I lost that battle, because it was made clear to me (by force) that any separation was not allowed. The only allowed course was submission.

In my first therapy I found my then therapist did not want me to be in control either. He seemed to feel the need to control me -- all for my own good, of course. As he put it, it was his responsibility to make sure I was on the "right" course (as he saw it).

[Sannah]

Pachy, that is correct, my parents weren't controlling at all. They swung to the other side to neglect and lack of concern.

Thanks for explaining it more. I think that everyone's experience is unique though.

So do you still struggle with maintaining your seperate identity (does it take a lot of work?)

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Sannah

So do you still struggle with maintaining your seperate identity (does it take a lot of work?)

Yes. I am working on it, though, and practice makes perfect.

[Sannah]

This is good Pachy! Good luck to you and remember to post out your thoughts to make it clearer to you...........

[peaches100]

WOW! These posts have really given me alot to think about. And questions to ask myself. It's a complicated thing. . .this terrible fear of being hurt, but yet this being drawn toward hurtful relationships. I talked about it with my t Wednesday and she says it is a pattern from my childhood.

I asked her how she felt about having power over others. Did she ever feel tempted to be the all-powerful, all-wise therapist with her masses of patients who adore her? Did she ever feel tempted to use her power against others, in order to inflate her ego? She said no, she never felt tempted to abuse her power, and that if she ever hurt anyone intentionally, she would feel terrible and be very ashamed. She told me that, even if I feel like there should be pain in our relationship, or even try to cause it. . .she will never intentionally hurt me. She said she will not continue that pattern with me, that it would not be good for me. She said, "I am not going to introduce pain into this relationship."

She said just what I needed to hear. She has never acted superior or condescending toward me. A part of me knows she would never hurt me on purpose. But I had to ask her and hear her say the words. That she would not hurt me on purpose. . .that she would not secretly even want to abuse her power.

[Sannah]

This thread reminds me of a situation which if explained might be helpful to someone. I have a neighbor who has told me a couple of stories and then we had a situation. Her stories: She told me that she went to a lawyer for legal advice. He talked and talked about things that weren't related and that she didn't care about, for a long time. Her 20 minute visit turned into an hour. I asked her why she didn't say anything. She said I am from Tennesee and I am afraid of the "good ole boy network". I said what! We are just south of the "Mason Dixon Line". I have never encountered this but I'm from the north and wouldn't respect it anyway.

She then told me a story about a spervisor's mental abuse of her when she was in the National Guard.

Second story: She is on the board of our subdivision. She went to talk about a violation with someone. Of course you can expect people to not be to happy about this (I'm on the board now). She told me that he is sexist. I said what! This man is not sexist.

My situation with her: I invited her over so that our daughter's could work out their disagreements. It was getting out of hand and I thought that they needed some help. Over the phone she wanted to know what it was about. I said that I wanted my daughter to explain it in person. They came over and she never came up on our deck and started talking from below. I thought "why isn't she coming up here?" but we had gotten started and I got lost in that.

Later she accuses me of doing a power play on her! I couldn't believe it. She also told me that I never ask her for her opinion. What! I am supposed to take care of her? I am not the one in charge. Why is she treating me like I'm in charge!

I told her that it seems that she has a history of projecting power onto other people because she feels powerless. She projected all this power onto me. She was weak, she needed to be invited to give her opinion. She couldn't come up on our deck without an invitation. She and her daughter needed to know ahead of time what we were going to talk about so that she could plan her attack. This wasn't about winning or losing it was about problem solving this.

I was actually a little hurt being accused of this hurtful behavior.

Anyway, the whole moral of my story is how we make our own reality. She projected all of these qualities onto all of us. This is how a person can take control of their life. If I ran into a good ole boy I would put up a fight that he would never forget and I wouldn't even need to raise my voice. We make our reality - don't let your past cloud your today.........

[Mouse_]

Originally Posted by peaches100

I am a person who has suffered alot of emotional and other abuse in my life. I have been in therapy for quite awhile with a good therapist and have made good strides in several areas. However, I feel the need to create conflicts with her, as the stirred up emotions (though negative) make me feel as if our relationship is alive. It is almost as if I need to be emotionally hurting about her in order to feel close. I also at times have told her that I wish she would hurt me (emotionally). Although I know it would devastate me terribly, another part of me feels that it is "the way it should be" and perhaps wants to suffer.

I'm sure that this is dysfunctional and comes from the traumas I went through as a child. But I can't seem to stop feeling this way. When there are no intense emotions being stirred up in the therapeutic relationship, I begin to fear that there is no relationship, that I don't mean anything to my therapist, and that she will forget about me. Although I have needed all my life to have a supportive, caring, listening ear, now that I have that with my therapist, I do not know how to let myself enjoy it. It's hard to relax, trust, and go with the flow of our work because in some ways, I am always waiting for the rejection or abandonment that feels sure to come. My therapist has been great at proving to me her trustworthiness. But my urge to stir things up and/or sabotage the relationship continue. It is like I have a self-destructive part of myself that refuses to allow me to benefit from a therapeutic relationship that I know could be healing for me.

Does anybody relate? Any advice?

Peaches

Yes I relate and have even told T that I feel I have this itch inside of me that needs itching, but the itching equates to wanting of feeling I want T to attack me...of course I do not want this, but don't know how safe it is to allow myself to not want this? to even contemplate wanting love and caring and actually finding its there?? it feels safer to want what I always got.....dont be so hard on yourself and give yourself time to TRUST that there are people out there that truely want the best for us!