[Rapunzel]

Pieces have been slowly coming together. My therapy sessions have been so hard lately. I want to talk to T so badly, but I can't ever figure out what to say, so I go there and we mostly just stare at each other, or talk about things that are less important a little bit, but that doesn't even last long because we both know that stuff isn't what I'm there for, so we go back to staring at each other.

Last time, which was a week and a half ago, I was so determined to do better, and I tried, but it wasn't any better, and I left feeling frustrated. Normally, I sit in my car when I leave my session, and write a few notes for myself to get the main points down and anything that I need to remember, before starting the 2 1/2 hour drive back home. But I got in my car, and just couldn't sit there by T's office, but wasn't ready to go home either, so I had to go find someplace else to park so that I could sit in my car and cry for half an hour and write my notes. I don't even remember what I wrote, without looking it up, but I remember I wrote a lot, for a session that I didn't manage to talk in very much.

I've been trying to analyze why I keep not being able to talk to T, and I realized that it feels the same as when I was a teenager, and I kept wanting to talk to my parents and tell them that I was having problems and wasn't okay. Only, I never could. I never could figure out how to say what I wanted to say to my parents, and if I ever did get them somewhere without all the other kids listening, I couldn't remember what it was that I wanted to say. I'm reacting to T the same way lately for some reason.

This morning I was reading about treating autistic children, and I realized that, while most people, especially professionals these days, tend to view autistic children as so different from "normal" people that they don't even consider that the things that these children do could have reasons that would make sense if we tried to understand, because they are so different that it doesn't even make any sense. I have worked with people with autism, as well as other behavioral and emotional problems, and the more I worked with them, the more I related to them and felt like I could understand them because I am like them too. That has not been a popular position for me to take, professionally, because other professionals tend to discard me if I am "like them." They don't want to see that all people are more alike than different, and that we all fit somewhere on a continuum that includes even the most "different" or "disturbed." I place myself on that continuum too, and I recognize that I have some of the same problems.

I realized, that I have always seen myself as having problems, and my parents didn't want to admit that anything was wrong. I couldn't talk to my parents because they didn't want to hear what I wanted to say. The message I kept getting from them, directly or indirectly, was "You don't have any problems, so stop saying that you do."

T has been trying to get me to stop identifying myself as so dysfunctional, because maybe I take it too far, and it isn't helping me to do that. And I'm responding by shutting down, because I've gotten that message that I don't have any problems and have no right to think that I do from my parents and previous therapists, etc., and obviously I was struggling, and still do even if not as much, and my parents and others in the past were not hearing me and their objective was to keep me from getting better or getting help (because they didn't want to deal with it, didn't want to feel bad or recognize their part in in, were tired of me, or whatever). So part of my struggle now is that I'm also hearing from someplace inside that I don't deserve help, and it's stupid and bad to do things to try to help myself, and I should just accept things the way they are and not make a fuss. So then I can't tell T about my ideas or what I try that is constructive either, because I'm afraid that she will think it it stupid and selfish and bad and I don't deserve it, and all that stuff.

I still have another week to go before I see T again. I hope that I'll be able to explain this to her then.

[Sannah]

This transference makes perfect sense to me Rapunzel. It is overlapping quite well. I hear what you are saying about people not wanting to recognize that you are having issues. How can you fix anything if there is nothing to fix? even though you know that there are things to fix.

[shezbut]

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

Pieces have been slowly coming together. My therapy sessions have been so hard lately. I want to talk to T so badly, but I can't ever figure out what to say, so I go there and we mostly just stare at each other, or talk about things that are less important a little bit, but that doesn't even last long because we both know that stuff isn't what I'm there for, so we go back to staring at each other.

T has been trying to get me to stop identifying myself as so dysfunctional, because maybe I take it too far, and it isn't helping me to do that. And I'm responding by shutting down, because I've gotten that message that I don't have any problems and have no right to think that I do from my parents and previous therapists, etc., and obviously I was struggling, and still do even if not as much, and my parents and others in the past were not hearing me and their objective was to keep me from getting better or getting help (because they didn't want to deal with it, didn't want to feel bad or recognize their part in in, were tired of me, or whatever). So part of my struggle now is that I'm also hearing from someplace inside that I don't deserve help, and it's stupid and bad to do things to try to help myself, and I should just accept things the way they are and not make a fuss. So then I can't tell T about my ideas or what I try that is constructive either, because I'm afraid that she will think it it stupid and selfish and bad and I don't deserve it, and all that stuff.

I still have another week to go before I see T again. I hope that I'll be able to explain this to her then.

Hi Rapunzel,

You may want to print out a copy of your description - the last paragraph is what truly seems to get to your feelings & experiences. You could then share what you wrote with your therapist, get feedback, and delve more deeply into the subject.

Shez

[MissCharlotte]

(rapunzel)

I really get your post. I think that it's very painful in when T wants us to be our "adult" self as we are in the NOW--because it feels like we are DENYING a part of ourselves (the part that is feeling hurt). So in the transference it winds up feeling just like what our parents did--deny, ignore, minimize, etc. I struggle in that transference as well.

You did a really good job of explaining it here though--so hopefully you can manage to discuss it with T as well.

Good analysis! Thanks.


:Heart:

[RiverX]

Yes, like the others have said: powerful post, and clearly put.
I ID all of this, when I feel uneard, or unresponded to by T. - the relationship moves into the imagination, so say in my head, or write all the things we'd truly long to be met and understood for, but ---- are blocked when the person is there in front of us.

Theres a problem here as I see it, you are wanting / needing to go deep. Asking the question, 'WHAT IS THIS?' ...
but then you're not getting the response to support your enquiry, which is healthy, its an honest and brave enquiry.

what do you think is the wisest course of action rap?

river

Rapunzel

Can you print out this post and bring it to T? It explains so well what you are struggling with. I get frustrated when I am struggling with something like that and I'm not able to communicate it, and when I finally do, it is SUCH A HUGE RELIEF. Maybe this post would help move your T to a place of greater understanding??

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

This morning I was reading about treating autistic children, and I realized that, while most people, especially professionals these days, tend to view autistic children as so different from "normal" people that they don't even consider that the things that these children do could have reasons that would make sense if we tried to understand, because they are so different that it doesn't even make any sense. I have worked with people with autism, as well as other behavioral and emotional problems, and the more I worked with them, the more I related to them and felt like I could understand them because I am like them too.

Somewhere recently, maybe in a PM here, I said much the same thing. For some time I have had the instinct that I could know how to approach autistic children. After reading Temple Grandin's books, I feel that more so. She makes a great deal of sense to me.

[Rapunzel]

I'm tempted to copy this post and email it to T, but if I did, then she wouldn't respond and I would assume that she read it (which she would), and then I wouldn't talk about it because she already know, so there's no point. I need to try to remember and actually talk to her, which seems to be my main problem lately. So I'm trying to hold onto this for long enough to be able to talk about it. By next week it might be old hat though, so that's the challenge. I keep having things I want to talk about, and not talking about them. Even if I have notes, or send an email, ....

[Sannah]

Rapunzel, do I hear some excuses to not act???????????????

[Rapunzel]

who,me? make excuses? would i do that?

[shezbut]

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

I'm tempted to copy this post and email it to T, but if I did, then she wouldn't respond and I would assume that she read it (which she would), and then I wouldn't talk about it because she already know, so there's no point. I need to try to remember and actually talk to her, which seems to be my main problem lately. So I'm trying to hold onto this for long enough to be able to talk about it. By next week it might be old hat though, so that's the challenge. I keep having things I want to talk about, and not talking about them. Even if I have notes, or send an email, ....

I'd print this post & highlight the points that cut deeply into the issue. Bring it with you to your appointment next week.

I write in my daily journal about the day and bring that with to psych appointments. It helps me a lot, otherwise I wouldn't talk about those very important issues at all. I would talk about my mood of the moment & that's about it. Not real helpful. The psych now has a much better understanding of who I am and how my brain works. We have a limited amount of time and most of it is spent by my reading the days, making clarifications (if I can) and answering a Q or two.

That's my experience anyway. Best wishes!

Shez

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

who,me? make excuses? would i do that?

[Kiya]

((((((((((((((rapunzel))))))))))))))))
I hope you can tell t also... hate getting stuck in t.

[Rapunzel]

I am stuck more than not. I used to get stuck after just doing email therapy for too long. I would get overcome with the idea that T must really disapprove of me and I was doing everything wrong. Then I would be desperate to see her f2f so that I could know that it was ok. I'd usually make it about 6 weeks in between sessions, with email every week. Now we don't do email anymore, and I have been trying to go and see her as close to every week as I can, and I'm back to feeling the same way all the time that I did when we were doing mainly email.

This time is a long interval in between, and I really want to email her and tell her how frustrated I have been and ask for reassurance. She is good at email, but has a current policy not to write back to me. I'm supposed to actually talk during the sessions instead.

That giraffe smilie is really neat!

[Kiya]

Oy - "talking in session" =) T and I are working on the same thing. I used to mainly email. I'm trying tho - I totally feel your pain. That REALLY bites that she has a 'no email you back' policy, I can see how that would feel like (if it were me) I'd done something wrong. Hope you will be able to get through this! (((((((((Rap!)))))))))))

The giraffe smilie I borrowed from Soliaree =)

[Rapunzel]

4 more days. This time has been too long in between. Email is easier. But if I email her, I am less likely to talk when I'm there.

[Kiya]

4 more days for me also... and no response from her to my email *sigh*. hardly ever does any more... in fact.... i can't remember the last time she answered one.

what do you do in the meantime to try and distract yourself?

[Rapunzel]

I read a lot, listen to music, lose myself in work (hard to do this time because I'm waiting for my license - i've been in limbo for being able to work since the day before I went to therapy last, two weeks ago), and concentrate on all the things I never have time to do: crafts, exercise, etc. I have given myself a lot of self-help assignments for this long interval, and have worked on some, but haven't done nearly as much as I wanted to do. I'm working on a self-confidence online course, except going really slowly with that. My list of how I'm trying to cope is posted on my blog (link in signature). Sometimes publishing things is how I try to keep track. Can't lose it if it's on the web, right?

[Kiya]

((((((((((((((Rap)))))))))))))))
yeah - all good stuff =)
one day down....

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

I would get overcome with the idea that T must really disapprove of me and I was doing everything wrong.

Then I would be desperate to see her f2f so that I could know that it was ok.

Where did this belief that things must be wrong all the time come from Rapunzel?

It sounds like you really want to change this pattern and go to therapy and talk!!!!!!!

[Rapunzel]

That belief would be transference also. My family of origen never approved of anything I did, and would pick it all to pieces with criticising anything they could find, or telling me to not even try because I wouldn't be able to be good enough anyway. Now I am so sensitized to rejection that it is all that I can see much of the time, especially from anyone in an authority figure role.

[Kiya]

one more day... *whew*! (((((((((((((((((((Rap)))))))))))))))))

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

My family of origen never approved of anything I did, and would pick it all to pieces with criticising anything they could find, or telling me to not even try because I wouldn't be able to be good enough anyway. Now I am so sensitized to rejection that it is all that I can see much of the time, especially from anyone in an authority figure role.

Working through this while it is happening with a therapist is a really good way to address this.

[Rapunzel]

Ok, made it today. I told T about the rejection sensitivity and transference connection. Apparently all that is yesterday's news. Yeah, we have been through it before, but I felt it more and it went deeper this time.

T says that I shut down when she expects me to actually do something about a problem, and none of my smokescreens and whistles fit the bill. Yeah, she's probably right about that too. Because I know she expects me to come up with solutions, but I'm fresh out of solutions. Take away all my distractions and smokescreens, and I create an illusion that convinces me there isn't anything else. And it boils down to that I am afraid to see myself for who I really am, or to let anyone else see the real me, or to actually be real. So I keep hiding and avoiding. And T says that this is what I am in therapy for. And that the solution is to stop hiding and avoiding, and face the fear.

I forgot the not deserving help because I'm not allowed to have problems angle. That's just as well though. She would have thought I was whining. I guess I did ok this time. Only one major shutdown.

[chaotic13]

I think I'm experiencing some transference myself lately. I will say that last session the email that I sent in the weeks prior to that appointment helped. My used it to zoom right in on an issue that it admitted in the email that was troubling me. After she dove into the issue in our session, she even said..."Stay with me, I know you weren't expecting me to got there so quickly." I actually did stay with her and managed to actually "talk" and not simple email about it. Remembering that its important to still actually talk about stuff is tough.