Question For Both Genders

Hi everyone,

I welcome & would appreciate advice from both men & women about this.
I'll probably post this on the Women's board, but wanted to get male perspectives, too.

Other women seem to automatically know how to handle this, but, b/c I've led a very isolated life due to my "issues", I am clueless.
Here's my problem: Most of the times when I associate with a guy (whether he be a coworker, someone whom I rarely see, or sometimes even a stranger), it's obvious that they think I'm interested in them. I've had a few men to whom I had no attraction actually tell me they thought I had a crush on them. One of them was the husband of an acquaintance, which was insulting, b/c I'd never try to steal someone else's spouse. In fact, I'm usually nicer to men who are married b/c they are taken & not a threat, or guys whom I'd never consider b/c I don't want to hurt their feelings by being rude & ignoring them. I can't even imagine myself "with" anyone right now, b/c I'm going thru so much. Why is it that if I compliment a guy's shirt, for example, he can't just take it at face value ( I just like your shirt) & not misinterpret it as a much bigger compliment (I want to go to bed with you)? In other words, why does talking to a guy & being nice to him mean anything more than polite chitchat? Apparently, I'm being too nice, but I don't want to be a *****, either.

Thanks in advance for your replies!

You know I have wondered this. It seems like if you talk to a guy they automatically think you are interested in them. But also, I don't think it's every guy. Some guys think that no girl is ever interested in them! But in the same way, I have flat out had guys tell me that if they didn't think I was 'hot' they wouldn't be friends with me. That they're only friends with girls they find sexually attractive but I don't think that is every guy either.

I think some of it depends on their age cause I have noticed it less the older I get. Freshmen guys in college think every girl wants them but when you meet seniors or grad students, that's less frequent. Maybe it's just wishful thinking?

I asked my boyfriend and he says that its because guys want to feel like they're wanted. He said especially if they haven't been with a girl in a while they want to think that someone likes them which makes sense to me.

I'm not saying all men are like this, but if you're a woman who's from average looks and upward -most men men will take it as "she's interested in flirting or hooking up. With married men I'm always pleasantly polite since I don't want to give the wrong impression to him/wife. If you're above average in looks you may find you get misinterpretted all the time. I agree with Salukigirl that it's wishful thinking. When I was a teenager I used to get too much unwanted attention without even making eye contact- used to be very uncomfortable. Most(not all) men are very visual, so when an attractive woman starts paying attention, they automatically take it as "she wants me".

The opposite issue is just as perplexing to me. I have always made friends with guys a lot easier than with women. I cannot sit down with a group of women and "chat". I literally feel like a fish out of water. I am sooooo uncomfortable. And the feeling I get from them is that they think I'm from outer space or something or that I think I think I'm superior to them. I would never think that. I simply don't know what to say. Unless we talk about something featured on CNN that morning, I have nothing to talk about. Unless we want to talk about the latest study on bipolar illness, I have nothing to talk about.

I have observed women who when they talk to guys don't know any other way to talk other than in a somewhat "provacative" way. Not really a "pick up" type thing, but more of a flirty type of banter. When that happens, men sense it and treat the woman as if she's looking for a boyfriend. Maybe that is what you are doing but aren't aware of it. I learned just the opposite. To talk that way would make me feel silly! In my professional life, I had to learn to deal with men who were married, single, divorced, whatever and treat them all the same in a business like way and then leave for the day and go home. There were some who hit on me but I think it was only to influence the government (I was the government).

Don't know if this helped any but here it is.

IDK - Maybe Compliments = Flirting with this Generation?

It is funny you have said that since many girls say the same about me, that they though I liked them. I am generally shy and therefore usually sometimes too nice for fear of their reactions. During my phases I can be an asshole, but usually I am a very nice guy. One of my close friends of the opposite sex said that its just the way I am. She said since I am more timid of people it comes off as me liking them if that makes any since. I thought she did not make sense, but others seemed to agree with her. Hope it helped.

I suppose it may come as a shock to many to find out that women too may misinterpret a man's intentions. For a time I tried to compliment servers whose attentiveness made my meals more enjoyable. Invariably, the compliments were seen as more than simple appreciation for a job well done. Now, I let my tip suffice.

Thanks everyone, & Salukigirl- I've found that most men don't change as they get older. I had a job where there were lots of repeat customers, & I couldn't believe how many married men hit on me b/c they were going thru mid-life crises (or just plain cheated on their wives).
I know I'm unintentionally giving out bimbo signals by being too nice, & I know that guys misinterpret my anxiety as having a crush on them (I am severely socially phobic & am anxious around everyone, not just men). So, I understand why it's happening-I guess my post was an attempt to ask others how I should go about conducting myself properly w/out coming across as cold or unfriendly. Any suggestions?

Some times you can't win for losing. I've always tried to be pleasant at work. I enjoy laughing and I don't mind being the clown for a joke. I've always felt that smiling and eye contact are an important part of communication. I think it's very rude not to look someone in the eye when they're talking to you. This had lead to problems a couple of times.

About 20 years ago I worked with a man that I absolutely could not stand. All of my co-workers knew it, the man gave me the creeps, when he had to talk to me, he'd stand to close. He even knew it and would go out of his way to make me uncomfortable. He was just that kind of guy. I never made eye contact with him and tried to avoid all contact. Usually asking another co-worker to contact him with information. I still get the heebee geebees thinking about it. Anyway, his wife (to this day one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen in my life, what she saw in him I'll never know) worked there in a different department.

I was entering some data into the computer one day and she came into our office. I was alone except for an older gentleman that I'd worked with for 3 years and never heard him utter a single word. From time to time she filled in for another position, so I didn't think anything of it. She called my name, and when I turned to look at her she screamed "I WANT YOU TO STAY AWAY FROM MY HUSBAND"and a few other comments directed toward my general character that escape me now. I was absolutely stunned. When what she said sunk in, I went into the smaller back office to cry. I couldn't even talk. When my immediate boss came back in the room, I couldn't even tell her what was wrong. The older gentleman apparently could talk (I honestly thought he was a mute), and told her what the woman had said.

I'm older now, and I'm less concerened with other people's opinions and if it happened today I'd probably break out laughing.

I'd like to add that I am in no way insinuating that all men fit my description, & I'm sure there are some women who are like that, too. When I answered Salukigirl's reply, I meant that the guys who are like that don't seem to change with age, as she'd hoped. Obviously, if I'm the one asking for help then I'm acknowledging that I'm the one with the problem. I have no intention of this being a male-bashing thread. That said, does anyone have ADVICE for me? Thanks.

I do not understand your comments to be male-bashing. Some men simply have very high (and often unwarranted) opinions of themselves. When these men are in positions of power, the problems women face may be exacerbated.

What I have seen some women do is to bring the man's wife into the conversation to remind him you know he is married. Sometimes referring to your husband or significant other conveys the message you have no interest in the man that is being problematical.

One receptionist put a sign on her desk informing visitors that a smile is not an invitation to ask her for her phone number. Her supervisor made her remove it.

For me the crux of the problem is the inequality of power. In my experience, women are quite adept at letting me know when I overstep boundaries. The problem is more delicate when your boss is making the advances. If the boss is a jerk there may be job-related repercussions.

Good luck.

I think that there are always dirty old men but I do believe people can (and do) change. I used to be somewhat of a........hussy......until I had that experience of feeling really intimate and close with a guy. Maybe they don't change their thinking but they might learn how to control their actions better.

I honestly don't think I'm more than average in attractiveness but I get hit on all the freaking time. It's really annoying. One time I was in Manhattan, KS smoking outside a bar and a guy came up and put his arm around me and started hitting on me and I had to punch him in the chest to get him to leave me alone!

Who knows why......men are men lol

I don't really see anything wrong with wanting to feel good about yourself with feeling like someone is interested in you. That is, as long as they're not being inappropriate about it. Even though I love my boyfriend to death, it's still nice to have a guy check me out or it might boost my mood to think a guy is interested in me. But that's because I would never act on it.

I think that in a society that says men aren't supposed to feel sexy like women or they can't dress up and make themselves look good like women. We have an amazing power to look hot no matter what we look like without make up and dresses. Any girl can look gorgeous with enough time and effort. If guys go through a process to look good they're called gay or talked about. So I really don't see a problem with guys finding ways to feel good about themselves y'know?

Wish I could help you. I still get hit on and I am a lesbian...the really creepy part is that some guys see this is as a challenge instead of a boundry!

I was (unfortunately) married to one of those once. My closest, dearest friend was a lesbian and he made a pass at her once. She nearly slugged him.

I'm a little confused, I'm not sure if you are working now and are having to please a boss with a particular demeanor around customers or are simply trying to get a handle on this issue for future reference.

The very first thing that came to my mind is this: the women who are the absolute best at this subject are cocktail waitresses. It always gives me a kick to occasionally see a TV show (I hardly every watch TV anymore) where a cocktail waitress has a snappy comeback for a grabby, drunk customer and it stops them flat. Also, here's another suggestion. More and more women are in influential positions in the business world. There has to be books available at the books stores, online or at the library on this very subject that would be fascinating reading. Maintaining casual relationships with men. Something to that effect. Or even those dealing with social phobia.

You'll have to forgive me because I do a lot of reading and do get a lot of good out of books. Perhaps this might help you too. Good luck.

"More often than not, guys interpret even friendly cues, such as a subtle smile from a gal, as a sexual come-on'--from foxnews.

Men on average think far more about sex than women do, and men on average are prone to see sexual interest when in reality it isn't there.

When I was younger I had the same problem as you. Predators sensed my vulnerabilities. Other vulnerable men seized on my "nice" side. Do yourself and both the predators and the vulnerable men a favor. Be honest about how you feel, even if it makes you feel like a b i t c h.

As soon as you start feeling confusion about what's happening between you and some man, get it set straight promptly. When you find the right man for you, it will be natural and flow easy. Until then don't worry about what other men think of you.

All women have at least a little b i t c h in us. If a man is too scared or angry to deal with that, HE has a problem. Let him deal with his problem. You only have (some) control over your own problems.

Thanks to everyone who replied! I've received some good advice.

Salukigirl- yes, it's very flattering when guys flirt w/ me; not so flattering when it's unwanted. If it were one or two married men, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but I'm obviously portraying myself as someone I'm not.
Vickie- good observation about cocktail waitresses. I would never be able to handle a job like that b/c I'm not adept at manipulating men, which that job is all about. They have to be seductive in order to get good tips, but know how to be tough & draw the boundaries when the men get drunk or inappropriate. The book suggestion was a great idea. I read a lot, too, but never thought about reading a book about how to deal w/ men at work which would give good advice for dealing w/ them in general. I didn't even know there were such books on the matter! Thanks!
Bill3-Thanks for the news quote! I knew that about men; just don't understand it. Guess I needed to see it in writing. Still, other women seem to know how to handle this, b/c they haven't been thru what I have, & I don't have the experience they do.(Not b/c of my age but b/c I've isolated myself so much.)
It was nice to get a guy's input on this!
Pomeganate-Interesting that you used the word "predator", b/c I feel like I'm prey to them, & altho I didn't feel the need to include this before, I was raped, & stalked by a few guys. I feel like I just attract creeps like this, which is another reason why I posted this thread. I know people are going to tell me not to blame myself, that there is no excuse for a man doing that- which is true, but if it keeps happening...I haven't dated in 5 years b/c I've had so many horrible experiences which I know I must have brought on myself due to my total lack of boundaries, being too nice, then being too b****y when it gets out of hand & then the guys get pissed off & do sick things such as break into my car, etc. SO IT REALLY IS ME! You're right, I do need to learn how to be a b**** at the right time & stop them before they start. Thanks!

Whew!

Sex Drive: How Do Men and Women Compare?

Experts say men score higher in libido, while women's sex drive is more "fluid."
By Richard Sine
WebMD Feature
Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD

Birds do it, bees do it, and men do it any old time. But women will only do it if the candles are scented just right -- and their partner has done the dishes first. A stereotype, sure, but is it true? Do men really have stronger sex drives than women?

Well, yes, they do. Study after study illustrates that men's sex drives are not only stronger than women's, but much more straightforward. The sources of women's libidos, by contrast, are much more difficult to pin down.

It's common wisdom that women place more value on emotional connection as a spark of sexual desire. But women also appear to be heavily influenced by social and cultural factors as well.

"Sexual desire in women is extremely sensitive to environment and context," says Edward O. Laumann, PhD, a professor of sociology at the University of Chicago and lead author of a major survey of sexual practices, The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States.

Here are seven patterns of men's and women's sex drives that researchers have found. Bear in mind that individuals may vary from these norms.

13 Common Sex Drive Killers

1. Men think more about sex.

The majority of adult men under 60 think about sex at least once a day, reports Laumann. Only about one-quarter of women report this level of frequency. As men and women age, each fantasize less, but men still fantasize about twice as often.

In a comprehensive survey of studies comparing male and female sex drives, Roy Baumeister, a social psychologist at Florida State University, found that men reported more spontaneous sexual arousal and had more frequent and varied fantasies.

2. Men seek sex more avidly.

"Men want sex more often than women at the start of a relationship, in the middle of it, and after many years of it," Baumeister concludes after reviewing several surveys of men and women. This isn't just true of heterosexuals, he reports: gay men also have higher frequency of sex than lesbians at all stages of the relationship. Men also say they want more sex partners in their lifetime, and are more interested in casual sex.

Men are more likely to seek sex even when it is frowned upon or even outlawed:

• About two-thirds say they masturbate, even though about half also say they feel guilty about it, Laumann says. By contrast, about 40% of women say they masturbate, and the frequency of masturbation is smaller among women.
• Prostitution is still mostly a phenomenon of men seeking sex with women, rather than the other way around.
• Nuns do a better job of fulfilling their vows of chastity than priests. Baumeister cites a survey of several hundred clergy by Sheila Murphy in which 62% of priests admitted to sexual activity, compared to 49% of nuns. The men reported more partners on average than the women.

3. Women's sexual inclinations are more complicated than men's.

What turns women on? Not even women always seem to know. Northwestern University researcher Meredith Chivers and colleagues showed erotic films to gay and straight men and women. They asked them about their level of sexual arousal, and also measured their actual level of arousal through devices attached to their genitals.

For men, the results were predictable: Straight men said they were more turned on by depictions of male-female sex and female-female sex, and the measuring devices backed up their claims. Gay men said they were turned on by male-male sex, and again the devices backed them up. For women, the results were more surprising. Straight women, for example, saidthey were more turned on by male-female sex. But genitally they showed about the same reaction to male-female, male-male, and female-female sex.

"Men are very rigid and specific about who they become aroused by, who they want to have sex with, who they fall in love with," says J. Michael Bailey, a Northwestern University sex researcher and co-author with Chivers on the study.

By contrast, women may be more open to same-sex relationships thanks to their less-directed sex drives, Bailey says. "Women probably have the capacity to become sexually interested in and fall in love with their own sex more than men do," Bailey says. "They won't necessarily do it, but they have the capacity."

Bailey's contention is backed up by studies showing that homosexuality is a more fluid state among women than men. In another broad review of studies, Baumeister found many more lesbians reported recent sex with men, when compared to gay men's reports of sex with women. Women were also more likely than men to call themselves bisexual, and to report their sexual orientation as a matter of choice.

4. Women's sex drives are more influenced by social and cultural factors.

In his review, Baumeister found studies showing many ways in which women's sexual attitudes, practices and desires were more influenced by their environment than men:

• Women's attitudes towards (and willingness to perform) various sexual practices are more likely than men's to change over time.
• Women who regularly attend church are less likely to have permissive attitudes about sex. Men do not show this connection between church attendance and sex attitudes.
• Women are more influenced by the attitudes of their peer group in their decisions about sex.
• Women with higher education levels were more likely to have performed a wider variety of sexual practices (such as oral sex); education made less of a difference with men.
• Women were more likely than men to show inconsistency between their expressed values about sexual activities such as premarital sex and their actual behavior.

Why are women's sex drives seemingly weaker and more vulnerable to influence? Some have theorized it is related to the greater power of men in society, or differing sexual expectations of men when compared to women. Laumann prefers an explanation more closely tied to the world of sociobiology.

Men have every incentive to have sex to pass along their genetic material, Laumann says. By contrast, women may be hard-wired to choose their partners carefully, because they are the ones who can get pregnant and wind up taking care of the baby. They are likely to be more attuned to relationship quality because they want a partner who will stay around to take care of the child. They're also more likely to choose a man with resources because of his greater ability to support a child.

5. Women take a less direct route to sexual satisfaction.

Men and women travel slightly different paths to arrive at sexual desire. "I hear women say in my office that desire originates much more between the ears than between the legs," says Esther Perel, a New York City psychotherapist and author of Mating in Captivity. "For women there is a need for a plot -- hence the romance novel. It is more about the anticipation, how you get there; it is the longing that is the fuel for desire," Perel says.

Women's desire "is more contextual, more subjective, more layered on a lattice of emotion," Perel adds. Men, by contrast, don't need to have nearly as much imagination, Perel says, since sex is simpler and more straightforward for them.

That does not mean that men do not seek intimacy, love, and connection in a relationship, just as women do. They just view the role of sex differently. "Women want to talk first, connect first, then have sex," Perel explains. "For men, sex is the connection. Sex is the language men use to express their tender loving vulnerable side," Perel says. "It is their language of intimacy."

6. Women experience orgasms differently than men.

While researchers find it tricky to try to quantify issues like the differing quality of male vs. female orgasms, they do have data on how long it takes men and women to get there. Men, on average, take four minutes from the point of entry until ejaculation, according to Laumann. Women usually take around 10 to 11 minutes to reach orgasm -- if they do.

That's another difference between the sexes: how often they have an orgasm during sex. Among men who are part of a couple, 75% report that they always have an orgasm, as opposed to 26% of the women. And not only is there a difference in reality, there's one in perception, too. While the men's female partners reported their rate of orgasm accurately, the women's male partners reported that they believed their female partners had orgasms 45% of the time.

7. Women's libidos seem to be less amenable to drugs.

With men's sex drives seemingly more directly tied to biology when compared to women, it may be no surprise that low desire may be more easily treated through medication in men. Men have embraced drugs as a cure not only for erectile dysfunction but also for a shrinking libido. With women, however, the search for a drug to boost sex drive has proved more elusive.

Testosterone has been linked to sex drive in both men and women. But testosterone works much faster in men with low libidos than women, says Glenn Braunstein, MD an endocrinologist and chair of the department of medicine at Cedars Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles and a leading researcher on testosterone treatments in women. And while the treatments are effective, they are not as effective in women as in men. "There is a hormonal factor in [sex drive], but it is much more important in men than women," Braunstein says.

A testosterone patch for women called Intrinsa has been approved in Europe but was rejected by the FDA due to concerns about long-term safety. But the drug has sparked a backlash from some medical and psychiatric professionals who question whether low sex drive in women should even be considered a condition best treated with drugs. They point to the results of a large survey published in the journal Obstetrics & Gynecology last year, in which about 40% of women reported some sort of sexual problem -- most commonly low sexual desire -- but only 12% report feeling distressed about it. With all the factors that go into the stew that piques sexual desire in women, some doctors say that a drug should be the last ingredient to consider, rather than the first.

Byzantine- Thanks for putting in the time & effort to post this elaborate & informative article.

This has made for interesting reading. I guess I am lucky in a sense that I am an unattractive guy. The women at my workplace completely ignore me altogether unless they have to actually discuss something work-related.

As a male (tongue in cheek) lol haha and so on...I wonder would the question be different if all these men that hit on you...or what you percieve as "being hit on"...if they paid no attention at all to you and simply left you alone...we'd be sitting here reading things like why dont guys find me attractive why dont men like me...there is a truth inside of us all and it is so sugar coated with ******** it can make your head spin...time to wake up and realize that deep down we all...men and women...need to be validated every second of every day...it's no use sitting there pretending you aren't the least bit interested in what any man or any woman has to say...there are only two things that we...as humans...think about and that is food and sex...we need nothing else...but as for being hit on by guys...boo hoo...get over it...there is no magic button that you can press and turn off the sexuality...harsh...yes...but reality sucks dont it...HARSH...sorry...I guess men have earned that sticker of being sexual preditors because we are...but so are women...they just lie about it better than men...

I used to think this too when I was young and dumb and I thought i was attractive. But really, since finishing high school it hasnt been an issue.

I'm probably not a good example as I have never had any friends and I am probably socially challenged.

My social/sexual challenges at age 57 can be summed up very simply:

1. I want my husband to be proud of my appearance when we go out to dinner. He always compliments me and I know he especially likes red lipstick so I wear it often.

2. In contrast, when I have to deal with repairmen/contractors in our home, I want them to take seriously that I know what I'm talking about when we discuss what I want them to do because, the truth is, I DO!!! They better not try to put anything over on me or it will be the worst day of the year for them.

3. Due to various reasons, my husband and I have challenges when it comes to maintaining intimacy in our marriage. We work hard at it. The older one gets, the more challenging it becomes.

4. I have a sign above my kitchen sink. It is signed "Jane Earp", as in Wyatt Earp's wife. It says, "I never shot a man while he was doin' dishes." This is my motto.

I can relate to some of the things said here. I have a hard time getting dates, and find that I guess men don't find me attractive enough.