[Tatyana2009]

Hi, I am in my 30s and have been engaged for 14 months. Living together for 2 years. We soon after the proposal stared to look for a wedding venue and I got my dress. After 4 months, he said that our relationship is so bad that he cant get married like this. He accused me of all sorts but said that he does not want to split up. We went for counselling for 4 months, which helped. But then when I brought up the wedding again - he would not talk about it at all. I then decided that if he wont talk about the wedding then there is not much point in talking about anything else. We spent 2 months more or less not talking. Then I went away for a month where I told him not to contact me unless its about a date. He emailed and texted me. When we eventually talked he said he would do anything as he cant live without me. I came back and we started discussing our married life together and the wedding and went to see a venue etc. 3 days later he said he is not prepared to set a date as our relationship is not good and he wants at least 2 months of normality together. He is divorced with an ex that is conniving and manipulative and children who live with her. I am at my wits end. I do not know what to do. It seems that he is terrified of marriage and as soon as it becomes real he cant do it and looks for faults. He seems happy to have a child together but wont set a wedding date. I dont know what to do anymore as we both love one another but I need marriage and he does everything to avoid it. I also feel so hurt for him promising twice and letting me down. Your thoughts anyone?? I am new to this site. x

[salukigirl]

First of all welcome to PC!

I think it might help to try and think of things from his point of view. You know he has already been mistreated/betrayed once by his ex who continues to be manipulative to the family. So obviously, it's going to be hard to trust anyone again. He probably sees this bump in the road as a downturn to the relationship as a whole. I know that if my boyfriend and I fight I can't help but have flashes of thought that this is eventually going to turn into my past relationships. But then I realize that, when others would get out of hand, the guys never wanted to work it out. But my current boyfriend wants to work through it and that's the difference.

All relationships go through hell. They go through some unimaginable pressure, temptation, hardships and everything else. The thing isn't to look at how bad it gets, it's whether you are both ready to stick with it. Maybe if you make him realize that even when things get bad, you are willing to stick through it, he might realize that not all relationships are going to turn out like his last one.

If all else fails you need to think about whether it's the wedding or him. I know a lot of people that got married just for the wedding and the experience - not because of the guy. I definitely would not go so far as to say, if we aren't going to talk about the wedding we might as well not talk at all. I'm wondering why you "need" marriage? That just puts more strain on the situation. You need to get at the bottom of why he is getting cold feet or get to the bottom of why this relationship is not enough without the ring.

[Yoda]

I honestly don't know if you should or not be with him. The only thing I can tell you is I started having doubts about marrying my fiance but he insisted that I marry him and I did because I thought I "should". In retrospect I wish I had waited longer to see how the relationship progressed. The relationship didn't go well for me but I do have a son I love dearly. But he is not a good father. So I am probably not helping at all, am I? I dunno. What is your gut feeling telling you?

[KathyM]

Hi Tatyana

I married my ex-husband after living together for two years. In hindsight, I pressured him to marry me because something was missing in our relationship. I thought if he married me, it would prove his commitment to me, our relationship would improve, and we could live happily ever after. It didn't work out as I planned. He felt smothered, our relationship deteriorated, and the marriage didn't last.

I lived with my husband for three years. Our relationship was so good I was afraid if I even mentioned marriage it would spoil the magic we had together. It was my husband who mentioned marriage first. I said yes because we had what was missing in my first marriage. Our love was real, we were already fully committed to spending the rest of our lives with each other, and no improvements to the relationship were necessary.

We've been married now for 17 years. Neither one of us wears our wedding rings, but we don't have to wear them. I know he belongs to me, and he knows I belong to him.

We were watching TV one day and someone said "marriage is difficult." My husband turned to me and said "I don't think it's difficult, do you?" I said "No." He sighed and said "Then we must not be doing it right."

I hope you'll be able to work things out with your man without having to pressure him.

[Tatyana2009]

Thank you for posting! I appreciate your comments and they helped me think. Well:
salukigirl: Thanks! I do think of the situation from his point of view. This is why 14 months down the line (from our engagement) and 5 years down the line (when I knew I wanted to marry him) I am still with him without being married. Yes, I can see how arguments and little / big things may bring flash backs of previous rough relationships but I think after 6.5 years of knowing each other he pretty much knows who I am, how different I am from his controlling ex and how devoted I am to him and our relationship. I cant help but feeling that there is some thing he may not be telling me about his reason not to get married. When I try to talk I only get 'now is a bad timing' 'other priorities right now' 'dont want to talk' 'yes i want to marry you but in a few months'. To me this is now crossing the line and to an extent abusive in the sense that he promises and then blows it. I need the marriage for many reasons and I do not kid myself that it will change our relationship. To me its about commitment, acceptance and unity. Certainly not for the wedding and the experience but that would be lovely too because we love one another. We are planning to have a baby and idealy I would like to be married before. On many levels (friendship, emotional, sexual commitment, etc) the relationship is enough. But because he proposed and now does not 'deliver' I feel cheated and perhaps used.
Yoda: I know what you mean and I am sorry it did not work out. In our case we have known each other many years and seen the best and worst of one another and I know we will never want to be apart.
KathyM: Many thanks. Your note made just a bit clearer. I am really pleased you found happiness and true friendship the second time round. I certainly do not want to pressure my man but also feel I have to do the right thing for myself. I now spent the last few days just being normal and not discussing the wedding or plans. I am thinking of writing him a letter with my thoughts and feelings and maybe its time for both of us to face the reality that what we want is not the same. Although I am not even sure about that... I think his fear are not rational... Thats why I am so confused. Thanks for the support. It does help xx

[jerrymichele]

You are not alone on this. My bf is alot like this. It's his past. Something happened with his ex that he needs to work out. I would just tell him how you feel. I think that you could still encourage him to go to therapy.

[Bill3]

From what you said, at least three things may be relevant to his thinking:

1. Relationship needs to be improved.

3 days later he said he is not prepared to set a date as our relationship is not good and he wants at least 2 months of normality together.

2. Fear of marriage.

It seems that he is terrified of marriage...I think his fear are not rational.

3. Ex and her children (Are they also his children? How many?)

He is divorced with an ex that is conniving and manipulative and children who live with her.

How important are each of these in his thinking?

Do you think that the relationship needs to be improved?

[Tatyana2009]

jerrymichele: how are you dealing with your bf then? How long have you been together? I will try one more time to tell him how I feel. However I know he knows how. I also think he wants to marry me but something is stopping him when it comes to book the date. I started thinking that maybe his kids told him they wont see him anymore if we got married or his ex threatened him or god knows what (or is it just my paranoia...). He used to drink more than the recommended level and now stopped drinking, which I am so pleased about and somewhere hope that he would be able to 'connect' with his own processes more... So yes - the only thing I can do at this stage is probably talk about how I feel.

[Tatyana2009]

Bill3:Hi. Yes, I think the 3 categories are there. I also think they inter-link. I think that because he is afraid of full commitment, having made such a terrible mistake marrying his ex, he is looking for faults in our relationship.

Yes, the children are his and he is a great dad.

Of course all 3 are important to him. And to me. But I think his fear is what drives him.

I do not think the relationship needs improving (though I always strive for more and think that everything can always improve). This is why I feel so sad when I think of leaving. But I also feel promises should be kept and I am hurt..

[Bill3]

Certainly you would be hurt after you purchased a dress and looked at venues twice. I'm really sorry that you've had to go through that.

3 days later he said he is not prepared to set a date as our relationship is not good and he wants at least 2 months of normality together.

Are you now in his two months? When did they start?

Do you think that he interested in continuing to live with you (unmarried) indefinitely? Does he still seem to feel that he cannot live without you? Can you normally rely on him (other than when it comes to committing to marriage)? If yes to these, then perhaps individual counseling for him could help him figure out and overcome the obstacle.

You've been waiting a long time, and, more recently, been hurt as well. It sounds like you might be thinking about just how long you are prepared to wait for him. How were you feeling when you were away from him?

[Tatyana2009]

Thank you Bill3! Its pretty awful. I am close to giving up on the whole thing.

Yes, I think we are into the 2 months (started in November) but we need to move house by January and I dont want to move to another house with him if we do not have a wedding date.

Yes, he is interested in continuing to live together (unmarried). I do not know if he plans to never get married or thinks we will get married one day as I do not know what to believe anymore. So I think I have a trust issue with him right now.

Yes, he still feels that he cannot live without me. And yes, I can generally rely on him.

So the answers are Yes to all 3.

And I missed him alot (though I was ok and able to have a nice time) when I was away.

I am going away tomorrow for a week and I think I have had enough. Going to a family reunion and he cannot come because of work.

For me, this is the end of the road I think - either getting married or splitting up. I have waited, like you said, a long time and I cant wait much longer so I guess now is as good as ever....

But it feels so final and sad... I feel I resent him for this situation which is not good for a happy relationship.... Any words of wisdom?

[Bill3]

It sounds like you don't think counseling is an option and he can't seem to agree to a date or articulate a reason for the delay. Further, he agreed to marry when you came back to him, yet within three days he was backing off. You are hurt, badly disappointed and maybe even a little humiliated.

In thinking about the next step, I am wondering what choice would allow you to have an undivided heart, allow you to accept the ensuing situation through and through.

If you leave, you will be sad, painfully sad. Will you also be able to say that that, though painful, you can accept this choice through and through? Will you be able to say "I can accept that he may never genuinely ask me to marry him and so I'll be alone and/or open to the possibility of other men."?

If you stay, will you be able to accept that choice through and through?

You mentioned that you are feeling resentful of him, used, and understandably so. I'm skeptical that living with him, while harboring (understandable) resentment, is going to improve the prospects of marriage. If anything, it could make them worse. Do you agree?

Would you want to, and be able to, overcome those feelings of resentment? In other words, would you want to say, and be able to say, "I'll live with him and I can accept that he isn't ready to marry and may never be."?

Clarity on the options, visualizing them in your mind beforehand, can help you decide what to do next. I wish you eventual peace in coming to an undivided heart, to a through and through acceptance of a course of action.

[Tatyana2009]

To Bill3:

Hi, been busy for a while so took my time in posting. Yes - I see what you mean and I spent some time thinking about this. [THANK YOU!!]
It would be very hard for me to leave and hard to stay. In both cases I will be dealing with feelings that are not easy for me. In both cases I will give up something I cherish. In both cases I would not be 'whole' with my decision. And I guess this is what makes this so hard for me. But thinking it through - I think if I left I would be always feeling that I left the love of my life - who may be afraid of marriage to the bone, who may be a coward, who may even promised me things he cannot give - but I will be leaving the man I care about and have palnned to live the rest of my life with. My best friend.
If I stay - I have to accept I think that the wedding may never happen. I have to let go somehow of my resentment (and maybe ego..) - otherwise it will destroy us (like you mentioned).

After all this thinking I had a chat with my BF where I listened more than anything. I think he is so scared of the whole thing that it makes me sad. I am sure he still wants to marry me (and not just an empty promise in my ear) but I think that when it comes to setting a date - he has irrational fears and panic. He asked that we would wait until mid Jan (he has some issues at work that should be resolved by then and we are moving house beginning of Jan) - so he wants to wait till then. I am sure that when mid Jan comes - he would be scared again. But I think at the same time he is getting used to the idea...

So I am giving it a bit more time. And trying to enjoy our time together. That does not mean that it is very hard for me at moments.... I simply have no power against his fears...

Thanks again and hope you are well!

[Bill3]

Thank you for your kind words and good wishes. I'm glad to hear that you are becoming clearer on what to do and how to do it. I think of you with respect and wish you joy and peace. Please keep us posted if you so inclined!

[Tatyana2009]

Thanks Bills3. That is very kind. Will post if / when any developments...

Have a wonderful new year!

[MidLifeCrisis]

After your kind words to me I feel so for your situation! It is so hard to know how much time to give and when to give up. What is the line of thinking of ourselves and thinking of others? I'll be watching for your posts. Have a great New Year yourself.

[Tatyana2009]

Midlifecrisis- thanks!! Hope you are well and happy new year to you too!