Most of the time my husband and I get along very well. Conflicts between us are as rare as a sunny day in Seattle. This is because we usually want the same things. But there's a big clash going on right now, and hubby says he doesn't want to talk it to death, but I'm not willing to let it drop until we get it solved. It's a monster, at least to me. I don't know how to handle things when he comes home from work in about an hour and a half. I'm not even sure I want to talk to him.

Hubby and I both come from a background of child abuse. Both of us used emotional shutdown as a coping mechanism, but I regained my emotions through years of therapy, and he won't even consider doing so for himself. I need for him to feel things. I need to see that he feels it. But he's an iceberg.

When we disagree, it's usually a logic-versus-emotion thing. I want something, he doesn't. He gives logical reasons. I understand the logic, but I'm disappointed, and all I really need is for him to acknowledge that it hurt me. But he takes it as, I didn't understand the reasons. And he explains them again. Well, that doesn't help with the feelings. Then my emotions escalate, because in addition to not getting what I asked for, I now have a husband who doesn't get me at all. Whereupon he thinks I still don't understand, and he explains his logic to me AGAIN. Then complains that he has to keep repeating himself.

There is something really making me very angry right now. When he called me on break at work, to discuss our current issue, I asked him, "How do you feel when I'm upset?" He answered with, "Well, I just back off and give you space so things don't get worse."

I said, "That's what you do. That's not how you feel." That's when he said he had to go back to work, and when he gets home, he doesn't want to keep talking about it. We did reach a compromise on the original point of conflict, but I am far more upset about his lack of emotions than I ever was about the disagreement. I thought I was marrying a sweet, wonderful man, not an unfeeling Vulcan. And I'm getting sick of it. As long as he is incapable of completing the sentence, "I feel ___," or even of comprehending what the word "feel" means, I am beginning to wonder if I didn't make yet another mistake.

I'm going to stay on this site until he comes home, and hope someone can help me. Maybe I'll stop in on the chat room. I'm not in crisis, but I am one quivering soggy mess. And the one person I need most has gone into turtle mode, shut down in his shell, and doesn't seem interested in comforting me.

He's home now. We've talked. I'm not feeling much better. He wants to know why I'm sad. I summed it up with, "Emotions are important to me, but they don't mean squat to you."

He says, "That's just a difference between us. I don't see why it's something to be sad about."

But what a difference. It's as basic and foundational and vital to me as religious belief, an area where we are compatible. It's a core value. It's a very, very major area where we are not at all compatible. And even this, he doesn't think is important. Why didn't I recognize it sooner? Because we clash so rarely, and only then does it rise to the surface that I feel emotions, and he does not. I mean, he's totally blocked off. He can't even cry when there's a death in the family. Nor can he identify basic "feeling words" or list things that cause him to feel a certain way. "I feel sad when...." "I get angry when...." He can't do it. He can only say what he will *do* in a given situation, not how it makes him *feel.* And this drives me bananas. I hate being married to a robot. I want a human being for a husband.

As I've said, I've been hanging around the site waiting for replies. There have been none, but I've also been following views. The only people who have been viewing the Relationships forum, besides me, have been guests. So I guess nobody's been online who can help. I'm getting pretty bad. Still not in crisis, but could go that way.

I'll check back again some time tomorrow.

Sorry about the three posts in a row, but just an update: The problem is upsetting enough to me that I'm having trouble going to bed to sleep. It's now almost 5 in the morning here. I thought by now there would be a response, but there hasn't been.

It infuriates me that I'll ask my husband how he would feel in a given situation, and he answers with what he would do. He cannot identify a feeling word at all. He thinks he's answering my question, and that I just don't like his answer. But in reality, he's answering a question I didn't ask, and not answering the question I did ask.

"How would you feel if I fell down the stairs and broke my leg?"
"I'd call 911."
"No, I said, how would you feel?"
"I'd have to take care of business. It wouldn't do you any good if I just started jumping up and down and screaming."

It's about as logical as:

"What do you want for supper?"
"I heard it's going to rain tomorrow."
"No, I asked, what do you want for supper?"
"I said I heard it's going to rain. I can't do anything about that. What do you want me to do? Lie?"

He is not the man I thought I married, and I'm very disappointed.

[Julial]

(((((Lovebirds))))) I have been married for the last 10 years to a wonderful man. I also work with my emotions while he uses cool logic. In the beginning I use to get so upset because he responded with logic to my outbursts of feelings. I felt that he wasn't understanding me or wanting to give me confirmation that my emotions had validity. Through the years of growing, I now find I am grateful he kept a cool head during the storms. When I stopped demanding that he"feel" and started listening to his logic, I began to understand that he was trying to center me and calm me. It was like when I was in therapy and stopped resisting treatment, clarity and control began to show up for me. Nowadays, I rely on his cool logic and relies on my emotions to get to the heart of the matter. He needed his space just like I needed mine and we had to learn when to close the gap between us and when to back up and give each other room. I hope that you and yours can bring it together and work out the differences. Keep the faith.

I appreciate your feedback, Julial. I am now further frustrated by the fact that just as I'm beginning to get responses, my computer has suddenly gone haywire and it literally takes 25 minutes for a page to load. I can't imagine what the problem is.

I don't want to disregard you, or make you feel like I'm rejecting what you're saying, but I don't think it's the same as using logic to respond to an emotional outburst. It's that he simply *has* no emotions, period. Ever. In any circumstance. I don't care who died, he doesn't feel anything. In the time we've been together, I've seen him lose both grandmothers and an uncle, and feel nothing.

And at this point, the thought of living the rest of my life with an emotionless man is unacceptable to me. I won't leave him. I won't end our marriage. But I'm not going to be as happy as I was.

[Julial]

I don't think it was computers that caused the slow loading. Mine was doing it too! My husband also has problems showing his feelings especially when it comes to grief. He isolates himself and removes himself from his surroundings. I find it extremely hard to break through to him and it is frustrating when I am ready to yell and stomp and let myself go. I take a page out of his book and respond to him with logic. It is very hard sometimes, not to let my feelings take over but I find he responds better to my logic rather than my emotions. I don't always like it but I want to be as fair as I can and not demand that he validate my wants at all times. It is a slow process but over the years, we seem to have found a medium that works for us. I still have days of insecurity and will demand 'what would you do if I died', but he responds with 'I will always love you'. That didn't used to be enough but these days, it's enough. Keep loving him and keep loving yourself.

[Perna]

Oh, my, I have that husband, sort of. Feel sorry for your husband that he doesn't "get" it as richly as you do! It's just a different style of looking at things, not something you can "fix". A really good example for my husband is that he is a spur-of-the-moment guy, "Let's go!" but I have to plan and make lists (and reservations; can't tell you how many times he has wanted to go camping on a holiday weekend when they have been taking reservations for a year and there's no spots left). That's just how we each are!

I would let your husband be logical. Yes you really want X and he puts a damper on it because it takes too much time or costs too much or "not now" but just "accept" that and do your own planning on how to get it so he will accept it (when we use to argue about money, I use to either get a job that earned that much or would cut back on my other expenses for awhile until I felt okay spending for X, or I'd decide that, even though it would make him unhappy, I'd buy it anyway and shoulder the pain of making him unhappy).

Don't get trapped in someone else's style and/or your own wants. If you want something, it is your job to get it for yourself. Sometimes it seems unfair; my husband made 7-8x as much money as I did, but that's life and there are constraints. But no one else, even beloved husbands can feel like we do exactly about what we want. I know my husband loves me (even without his telling me, which he does all the time) but though he is warm, he is not emotional, that would be Me I do the begging and pleading and get angry and spiteful but he just "is" himself. Yes, he can get angry, but it's "clean" and non-threatening. Yes he does not put up with "idiots" but it usually is funny, not hurtful (at least to those who witness it, I'm glad I'm not the pushy telemarketer who just kept talking over my husband until he asked my husband how to spell his name and he spelled it, "b-u-z-z-o-f-f" and the guy got mad :-) but we have a code now, when I start wanting something really bad or trying to explain something special to me and his eyes start glazing over, I have to stop and think about whether he is likely to "get it" and if not (usually because it's fantasy or emotional, he never "got" my therapy but he supported "me" no matter) I laugh and say something like, "nevermind, it's not your thing, you can't understand".

Sometimes he uses the "wrong" words, we did a long discussion once about "rational" versus "irrational" (guess which word respresents which person :-) and I argued well for "not rational" is not the same as "irrational". You and I understand that there are other ways to understand than the rational, I don't think our husbands get that :-)

Thanks for the feedback and advice.

Right now I'm not at all sure my husband loves me. It's not a matter of him not displaying emotions. He doesn't have any. He doesn't even comprehend the word "feel," so how can he feel love, which is an emotion? And I've seen him display more compassion and empathy toward our cats than toward me. Maybe he'd love me if I had pointed ears and a tail.

I'm hoping some men will jump in and offer a male perspective.

[Perna]

I just read some of your additional posts and have to tell you about my falling-down-the-stairs story!

I'm my husband's second wife. We lived for 20 years in a large rambler on an acre of land. I went out one winter morning to get his newspaper from the driveway, slipped on some ice on the sidewalk and fell. It was painful and I lay there, in the ice/slush, being cold and wet and hurting. Nothing happened. I finally was able to look over to the house and he was sitting in the window/kitchen table, looking at me.

I slowly got up and limped to the newspaper, got it, went back into the house and gave him the newspaper and asked, "Do you let all your wives fall on the ice getting your newspaper for you and then just sit there?" He replied, "You got up. I was watching."

On the surface, looks like insanity to us? But I know he loves me so I had to think harder about it. What did I want him to do? How would his coming running out and fretting over my having fallen, maybe grabbing/jerking me to my feet, etc. have helped me? It wouldn't have. Yes, in books, the hero comes and lifts the lady in his arms and sweeps into the warm house and lays her on the bed and gently wipes the mud off her face, etc. but. . . that doesn't quite fit my real life. For starters, I weigh too much for him to lift easily

I'm glad my husband does watch and does have a cool head so if it is an emergency, he can get really good care for me. But that was one thing my husband taught me, but only when I got curious and asked him about it. He never offers to help anyone. He never minds helping, but you have to ask him for his help, he won't offer because offering help where it's not needed is insulting. My deciding you need help is saying that I know better than you do what you need.

If you fall and break your leg, how will he feel? You haven't done that yet, so he can't tell you how he'd feel! That's a future, hypothetical situation. There's no such thing. You can only ask him, "How did you feel?" after the event. He may or may not remember because, in an emergency, people aren't thinking about how they're feeling, they're doing.

LovebirdsFlying, hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction.

Thanks, but I'm not sure it will.

[purple_fins]

Oh dear, I'm sorry you're having a hard time of things.

I wish I was a guy -- in posting here to you........ but I'm not.... however, I believe I was raised similar to how, in general, a boy is raised and now I avoid drama, talking about feelings, expressing feelings towards others and many other "male" traits. (such things take me WAY out of my comfort zone-- but I'm learning to change-- it's easier for me as I'm expected to be as such and so I also have the culture pressuring me to learn it-- to be that way.... where your husband is still hearing those lessons -- don't be weak-- men don't show emotions....)

Imagine for a minute-- you are a young child, you get hurt and because you are a boy you're told not to cry- be strong not a weak wimpy. You are STRONGLY discouraged to express feelings towards others as that is considered "weak and female". and so as a child you avoid showing any pain or affection around humans and thus grow to be able to do that VERY well-- (it might be safe around animals coz they won't tell anyone) You never got to develop that "inner feeling" part of yourself, that girls get to, even if it's just towards other girls(if they come from neglect and/or abuse at least they have other girls to share with). It's not that you don't care-- it's that you never were allowed to learn to care and feel safe and good about it-- your inner self grows to repel it.... somehow....

well, this could be how your husband is.... maybe....(just thought I'd give you an idea, in hopes to help you) I just know that- generally- boys are treated VERY differently than girls are-- so why wouldn't they be different as adults?

I hope things work out and become less frustrating for you

fins

[purple_fins]

I guess in summary what I have been trying to say in the above post is-- that your husband not expressing emotions/feelings probably has much more to do with him and his "inner self" than it does to do with you.(IMO)

If he is willing and you both think it might help-- maybe a few sessions with a marriage counselor would be good. My husband and I have done this.... both for him to understand how I am and for me to understand how he is.
We learned to express our wants/needs a bit better. And not get so defensive and transfer our feelings onto eash other.

best to you

fins

Update: For myself, I've been so squirrelly the last couple of days, that we both decided I needed an emergency therapy session. Hubby had today off because he had two doctor's appointments. Well, the health coverage we've got is for a program where all services, family practice, specialties, labs, pharmacy, urgent care, etc. are in a self-contained building. A medical mall, if you will. We were already going there anyway. So while hubby was between morning family practice and afternoon occupational medicine appointments, we stopped by mental health for me.

It has to be a godsend. The on-call urgent care therapist assigned for today just *happened* to be my own regular therapist. He knows me and my background already, meaning there was no need to waste time on surface questions, and we could get right to the heart of the issues. He and I are a very good therapeutic match. I used to wonder about people who get so attached to their therapists that they go into crisis if the therapist transfers to another job--can't they just get another one? But now I understand, because I think I'd be pretty upset to lose this one. He helped a lot. Hubby and I were both included in the session, and we will schedule couples sessions together. The only immediate problem is, he's almost completely booked solid for the next two weeks, and only one appointment can be scheduled at a time. For couples therapy we'd have to work around hubby's job, and there weren't any available in the next couple of weeks outside his hours, so the next session has to be me alone. After that, we can start in as a couple. Technically, they don't do couples counseling as such, but they can have me as the identified patient, and hubby sitting in, although he's learning too. If hubby wanted, he could also go in for his own appointments, but that's extra $$.

The biggest eye-opener for me was this. Fact one--I'm right that hubby's father beat his emotions out of him. And fins, up above, pointed out fact two--hubby is therefore trained to shut down whenever anybody starts escalating. What I didn't connect, my therapist supplied. Fact one plus fact two equals fact three--when I get bothered and upset about the fact that he has no emotions, hubby will only shut down even tighter.

So that gets me off hubby's back about his emotions. Hubby's part in it is to understand what I was trying to tell him, and the therapist explained a little clearer. Hubby seems to think there are only two options: emotionally dead, or flipping out at the least provocation. And he doesn't want to lose control, so he stays frozen over.

The therapist even drew the diagram on the marker board. Far left represented totally blocked off, and far right represented overly sensitive. I'm not asking him to go all the way from one extreme to the other. I'm only asking him to scoot just a little bit toward the center.

Nothing........................................................................Too much
....X... x..............................................................................X
..........^
Where I want him

My therapist has an excellent way of explaining things.

Why is it so important to me? Because it's an intimacy issue. I want him to trust me enough to be open and direct about how he feels. He doesn't have to bawl his head off or punch holes in walls. All I'm asking for is, "Oh, I am so mad." There. That's expressing an emotion.

We both have work to do. We're doing it.

[Elana05]

Hi LovebirdsFlying,

It sounds like you both are willing to work on this. Sending my deepest good wishes. It must be really hard for your husband to have to call up his difficult childhood... I've had to do this also since I've been in couples therapy with my partner. (I've had portions of sessions where I just sit there with my arms crossed!) Not easy for my partner either, but we're working on it. I'm sure your guy loves you... just can't access the verbal part (yet) ?

E

I'm sorry! I wish I read your thread earlier!
I'm sorry about all that happened to you! I'm sure you're going through a rough patch, and try to think about the last time he was showing some emotion. Perhaps there was a reason why he became so apathetic?
Honestly, I think you two need to go out on a nice vacation, dinner, or something! Maybe an emotional connection will be established! I don't think a human can be lacking emotions for that long. He maybe agitated about something. I'm kind of repeating myself here because I really think something could be up. Also, maybe a death in the family gives him another reason to not even bother with his emotions. He's probably closed up until he can get everything in his mind straightened out.
Has he ever seen a T? (I'm sorry if you mentioned this already..) And furthermore, how long has this been taking place?

I think for now, leave him alone and take care of yourself. Treat yourself as soon as you can! I think this is vital because if you are calm, chances are he will loosen up.

I hope you are alright. Stay strong. (((((((((((LovebirdsFlying)))))))))))

ps: I'm sure your husband is still a wonderful, non-robot.

[purple_fins]

thanks for sharing your update with us.

I'm glad that things are going a bit better for you and husband.

Yea, emotions/feelings can be a tricky thing for those of us that never were allowed to express them... we never learned. and in fact often emotions were met with punishment, neglect or severe trauma.......
ugh.... emotions.... kind of makes my stomach upset.....

My heart is with your husband and his struggle, and with
you and feeling cared about. It's rough but sounds like you both are taking great steps in the right direction.

best to you and yours

fins-- a fellow robot

Congratulations, LovebirdsFlying. It seems both of you will benefit and a good result should be achieved.

[AAAAA]

I’m coming late to the party, but it is truly amazing that the human race hasn’t become extinct. Men and woman, think, speak, and process things differently. And add into that the baggage that we all carry with us and it’s a recipe for disaster.

Neither one of us has the “right” approach, in theory we balance one another out. I’m glad that you’ve found a compromise that will work for you both.

I appreciate everyone's support. Thank you very much. I am feeling better, and I think today's session prevented a psychiatric crisis. Which is exactly what urgent care is supposed to do.

I do understand hubby's viewpoint for the most part, since I was also an abused child, and I also went "robot" for a number of years. (Fins, as a girl, even I was raised on "if you don't stop crying, I'll give you something to cry about.") To this day I can't show any emotion at all in front of my mother, because I don't trust her. I'd have an easier time bawling hysterically in front of total strangers, than even shedding a silent tear in front of her.

Example: I had all three of my babies with no painkillers. When I was in labor with my third child, it hurt just as much as it the first two times, when I screamed bloody murder, but my mother was in the room with me the third time, and I didn't even utter a squeak. Couldn't. And I also didn't cry when that baby died two months later. Couldn't. Oh, yes, it hurt. The worst, most horrifying mental torture I've ever experienced in my entire life, and I felt every ounce of it. But I didn't have the ability to cry. The thing is, I *know* how messed up I was when I felt pain but couldn't express it. And I hate the thought of my husband being in that place. This is why it disturbed me so greatly to see him lose three relatives, one of them especially beloved because she alone stopped his abusive childhood from being a *total* hell, and not be able to respond to it emotionally.

T pointed out that it isn't always ONLY a matter of, "I've always been punished for showing emotions, so I'm going to shut down." In T's words, "His father didn't beat him for being emotional. His father beat him for being alive." And in addition to shutting down just to avoid punishment, there is also an element of, "I'm not going to give you the satisfaction of seeing me break down." I relate to that. I remember thinking like that. I remember being slapped in the face, and immediately becoming absolute stone because I would NOT let my mother feel like she won.

I guess we're not so different.

[Julial]

((((Lovebirds)))) Glad to hear you had a positive session with the therapist! And thank you for letting us know how you are doing. We really care and want only the best for you and your husband. You are... keeping the faith!

I too know of what you speak. You are in my thoughts.

[AkAngel]

I'm sorry I wasn't able to respond earlier and I'm glad things are better. I would like to say that while men often have difficulty expressing their emotions in a way that women can hear (verbally), they certainly have them. I hope things continue to improve.

[lynn P.]

(((LovebirdsFlying))) - I'm also sorry for being late responding and you received great advice. I think your husband feels love and emotions but he's afraid and not used to expressing it, especially when you're upset - so he freezes up, where its safe for him. If he didn't love you he would be gone, since you obviously go through rough periods. It's much better for him to freeze up, than go the opposite where he over reacts because this would cause big fights and you would be victimized. I'm so happy your therapist and the other posters here helped you understand this. Hang on to a good husband when you have one. I wish you both the BEST.

Perna - your post was very helpful to LovebirdsFlying's situation. I also enjoyed a good chuckle when you described your husband looking at you through the window. Who would think a falling down story would make me laugh.