Open Releationships

And regarding her aversion to touch.

I have had, over the course of my 42 years, about a dozen cats. On and off. So it is a fair size sample that I have observed.

My observation: cats differ WIDELY in their attitude towards touch.

And, supposedly, humans are more complex than cats.

In the cats that I have been exposed to, aversion to touch has correlated with having had a difficult past.

Maybe the same in humans... do not know.

Adam... not to be harsh... But this is not something you vote on. It's a question she needs to answer. You can't answer it for her. This is what I meant by you need to communicate more fully with your wife. If she is indifferent, why is she indifferent? Is she depressed? Is she paralyzed by the anxiety of getting a job, of paying of her seemingly insurmountable debt, of failing at any of these? Of failing you?

The more I hear of your relationship, the more I feel couples counseling would be beneficial. You have so many issues going on right now, between your own struggle with emotions and depression, and the issues in your relationship with her debt and the lack of communication. I don't think you should make any drastic changes that could have any possible negative effects for your future relationship if you do still love her and want to be with her. I think you need to focus on getting yourself emotionally stable and really opening the lines of communication with your wife.

That being said, I don't want anyone thinking I"m 100% against open relationships. They're not for me. I believe they can work as long as there is lots and lots of communication, understanding, and agreement between partners.

What I mean to say is I caught her cheating this morning. I'm bad and I know I shouldn't have but I went through her phone. A few things started throwing red flags the last couple weeks and I had a feeling something was going on. I found a couple naked pictures of her sent to some guy and a bunchof emails. I think I am done with the releationship. This is too much. This is the second time something like this has happened and I deserve better than that. I admit I had desires to see other people, but I didn't go showing people may gentials and having a email love affair. These emails were sent a couple weeks before I even talked to her about it.

I like it and I don't like it. I enjoy it only because I like being demeaned but she always keeps me on my toes and sometimes I wonder whether she even likes me.

oh... demeaned is taking it too far. there is a difference between making fun of you and demeaning you.

Adam, sorry to hear that. She could have had a conversation with you for sure. If you have been open with her, she could have been open with you...

Adam, it sounds like she has already left the marriage. It sounds like your role in her life might be more as a financial provider. That's not much for you to hang on to. If you have no kids, maybe you should consider that this may not ever really have been a marriage. If you own anything, I recommend you see a lawyer now, quietly. Get advice before confronting her.

I don't know you well, or much about your circumstances. I hope you find a way forward. Sometimes, we find that we have not so much gained a partner in life, so much as that we have adopted a child. It happened to me. It's no good. I'ld also add, having tried all kinds, that loveless sex is worth very little. I doubt it's what you really want, either. Your wife will be unlikely to change, no matter how much counseling you get - IMO. I dragged a less-than-committed partner to "couples counseling." The counselor got some of my money. That's all anyone got out of it.

I think that what I have been told is true of abusive partners is also true of childlike/dependent partners. They may later change/grow up to make a better marriage with someone else, but not until they leave you. Their pattern with you is established. It's very hard to move on. Believe me, I know. Half hanging on is tempting, but worse than cutting strings. I wish I had believed that years ago.

I'm not sure what I want to do exactly. I know I don't want to be with her anymore. I talked to her mom and she said I can still rent the house I am staying at. I wouldn't mind staying here if she wasn't. She has no where to go though. Should I just get an apartment and be done with it? I own a home with my brother, but I think he is doing drugs again and I don't want to be around that environment. I'm waiting to talk to my therapist tomorrow. It is sort of a crisis right now and I need to get some sleep.

As Rose advised: go see a lawyer before you act.

My state doesn't have alimony laws and I own very little possessions. There are no children or houses. All of our finances are seperate. She has no money and I doubt she would put much of a fight for divorce. I'm not thinking that far yet. I just want some seperation. I don't want to file any paperwork yet.

Adam, there are probably family lawyers who would give you a 30-minute free consultation, just to confirm that the above is all correct.

Adam, I am so sorry this is happening to you. I wish I had great words of wisdom or could make this go away for you. I can do neither. I can be your friend and I can listen.
You can PM me and flip out, come unglued, or break down and fall apart. I can listen and pray. You have us here at PC. Come vent, use us for a sounding board, what ever you need. Others here have help me up when I couldn't hold myself up. Let us do the same for you. If you need us let us help.

Talk to your T. This is certainly a crisis. After T take her advice. A lawyer, leave, have your wife leave, what ever. Stick w/ T and visit or call every day if you have to. One of my t's told me once that she gets paid a lot from folks. But she is pratically owned by the people who pay her. She is at there service 24/7. It's like an insurance plan you pay into it and hopefully never need it but if you do they are there for you.

Please keep talking to us Adam. PM me if you need me.

Thanks mama. Your a good friend. This place makes me feel less alone. My work has an EAP program that gives finanical and personal advice. I'll give them a call. I hurt a lot right now. I completely opened up to her, told her everything I felt and she tells me in not so many words she doesn't love me anymore. That hurts deep. I've been laying in bed feeling numb. I've been laying here for a couple of hours and I can't sleep.

I'm glad I have this place and my therapist tomorrow. I hope the new meds my doctor gave me help to. At the moment I feel numb and empty. I guess that is better than depressed and hopeless for the time being so I'll fake it. I told one of my online friends about all this and he said I can call him anytime. I don't feel alone. I just want to sleep. I have to get up in 6 hours.

Oh, adam, I'm so, so, so sorry to hear this. You were definitely trying so hard to be open with her, to feel connected to her, to work on your relationship with her... and then... this. Especially after all the drama with her student loans.

I agree, I think it is time to move on, get some space between the two of you, and focus on yourself. Keep improving yourself like you have been doing. Even though everything seems so bleak right now, you will get through this.

I'm very sorry if anything I said has been too harsh or offensive. I realize you can only communicate so much as you're both willing, and clearly, she hasn't been willing for a long time...

Please keep up updated. We're all rooting for you

Adam,

We all know that you are loving and caring and basically totally awesome. Someone else will fall in love with you with time.

Adam,

How are you?

Just adding that based on all your posts, you have an extraordinary potential as a relationship partner, whether in a more traditional or more open r/s. Just clearly not with her.

Adam, Any woman would be blessed to have you. You are thoguhtful, understanding, you work and let your wife stay at home. If I weren't married man, could I have you .
You sound like every womans dream come true. I agree w/ hamster you have extraordinary potential as a partner.Keep in touch dude. Keep talking to us. Good luck w/ T today.

I will be next in line after Big Mama . Should be divorced by 2014.

AAAHH MAN, , Hamster wins again.

I said "Next in line" though - meaning, behind!

I'm ok. I should feel down, but I feel numb at the moment. It's hard to focus and think today. I think the meds are helping me already. Partly I am happy I get to find a new releationship after I end and heal from this one. I think about the person I want to spend the rest of my life with and she wasn't it. I think I settled because she like me so much in the beginning and I came from nothing and had pretty bad self esteem. I deserve to be with someone who treats me better than she has. I should have left a couple years ago when she cheated the first time.

Adam look now further, me and Hamster, maybe we will share. NO I'M KIDDING, I think.

I do feel terrible for you and I am glad the meds are helping. Sorry, humor is my friend when I don't know what to do. Laugh or cry. Which will it be. Have you had T yet. If you need to talk I'm here PM me or continue talking to us here. We will do everything we can to help you know that right?

Please forgive me, as I originally had posted without reading the entirety of the thread. I am sorry.

Adam, I am so sorry this happened to you...I cannot imagine how you must feel right now. Please, know if I can do anything for you, I'm a PM away. You are in my prayers, and I hope that you'll be able to move on. You are so right...you do deserve better. I know that is hollow comfort now, but you were open and honest with her. You deserved the same amount of respect. I am sorry you were not shown it.

Hugs,
Harley

If I believed in Karma, I would say that Adam's next partner will show the same amount of respect.

If you are on this forum, then, chances are, your weight and health problems are due to the intake of atypical AP's, and, as well (and for the population as a whole), overconsumption of total calories, and inactivity, and sedentary lifestyle, and partly genetics, and not in any way the randomness of your food choices. Might also be due to overconsumption of carbs, though that is debatable.

While I do not have any health problems, I do have weight problems (not too bad though), and I eat far less than 1% of what is available in grocery stores. E.g. I cannot eat walnuts from grocery stores because walnuts need to be refrigerated and grocery stores, even TJ's, keep them on the shelves. Since I can smell rancidity about 6 months earlier than other people can, I only eat walnuts bought fresh from my local farmers' market, and I store them in my fridge. Pretty picky about everything else, too. My dark chocolate must be pure and contain at least 85% cacao with no fillings or additives or flavors. I won't eat any other chocolate. And so on and so forth.

So, I am as "non-random" in my food choices as they come, yet I have weight issues post Zyprexa.

With sex there is no connection between random and multiple partners. This is because:

1) you can pick a partner for monogamy at random
2) you can be very discriminating in your selection of multiple partners
3) you can be very discriminating in your selection of your partner for monogamy
4) you can be non-discriminating in having sex with various partners.

I am not saying that either of (1) - (4) is better or worse than the others. I am just showing that you are confusing "random" and "multiple".

When I think back to why I posted the question in the first place I am reminded that it initial excited me. I think this is because I knew there was something missing from the relationship. It was sex, but the intimecy and closeness of the act with someone you have chemistry with.

When I think about my marriage it is missing some of my needs that have developed since I have gotten older.

1. I need trust. I thought I had that but with the recent events this has been shattered between me and her.
2. I need support to deal with depression. I know this may be unfair and it was like a hidden fee I dropped in her lap, but I realize it is a real need for me. I have days where I can't stop thinking about hurting myself and I need a person in my life to be there to keep me safe. Hospitals and crisis centers can do that, but it comes at a cost as well. Missing work, feeling alone and scared. It is more beneficial to me to have a person in my life that will drop everything just to keep me company and get me thru the rough patches.
3. I need intimacy. I don't mean just sex, but the closeness you have from loving someone. I'm not saying I can't live without it or anything like that, but I need to feel connected on a deep level to someone. That is what gives me happiness.
4. I need a partner that is financially responsible. I don't mean I need someone to pay bills, but my significant other should be able to balance a checkbook and have some financial knowledge.
5. I would like a partner that has thier own life. Wants, needs, desires and passions.
6. I need someone that can accept me. I know this should go without saying, but I need someone who can accept that I have depression, used to self harm and that I am sensitive to rejection.

I don't think Sarah can fulfill these things. Maybe some of them with time and effort on her part, but I think too much damage has been done.


I took her new phone back to the store for a refund. I didn't want to buy it and it was less than 30 days so I could still bring it back. In the process of doing that I looked through the conversation she and her best friend have been having. I admit it is wrong but I wanted to know how she felt since she won't talk to me directly. From what I gather she resents me for not wanting children, of reluctanty agreeing to try. She also resents the time lost when I occupied my self going to school and working full time. I think most spouses would sacrifice for thier others doing this for a better future. Yeah it is a few hard year's, but the payoff later would be worth it. She resents me for not spending enough time with her and not caring enough for her. I think there are many ways to show love. In the last couple months I tried to show it more physically, but I feel that was too late. She has already grown away from me in her heart.

I am going to stay in her parents house for a couple of months. It will give me an oppurtunity to save some money and work on therapy. I have put up an emotionally wall with her now. When I told her I was taking her phone back, she started crying. I remember feeling nothing. She is sleeping in the other bedroom. I got all of her things, clothes, and even sex toys and put them in a suitcase and set them outside of the room. Preverbally kicking her to the curb.

I still love her, but I know this releationship is done. I don't want to try and fix it. I agreed to stay out of the 8 years we put together and I can't bear to see her homeless. I am going to give her 2 months to get a job and her life in order before I move out.