First of all this is NOT a trick question, but one that I really need some advice on..a concensus.
My wife and I split up last August after I had an emotional affair in 2009 (but I STILL maintain she was just a friend, I had no emotional attachment to her), and then last year I also had an affair ONLINE with someone I met in an adult virtual reality video game. We began fighting, screaming yelling, and ultimately I left because I could not stand the fighting any longer.
I have my issues and I have been working on them and taking my meds and making lots of progress. We are now beter friends than we have been in years, we co-parent our daughter, do some activities as a "family" and share duties as parents. I pay all my alimony and child support. I am NOT the same a$$hole that I was this time last year. I DO NOT expect that all is "forgive and forget" but at what point is it enough?

So I am the one who had the affairs, I am the one who left her...so here is the question...
How long does she get to keep throwing all that up to me?
How long does she get to keep reminding me of my mistakes, my shortfalls, my lies, my affairs, my decision to "abandon my family."

I have been told by one of the Church Pastors that she gets to beat me up with it for as long as she wants to, that I have to be a man and take it.
My T says that she is hurting and she does need to vent in my direction, and that could go on for a few months, but as for "as long as she wants to" that is ridiculous!

So I am asking you to weigh in on it...no matter what your opinion is, please share it and don't be afraid to hurt my feelings....I am NOT suicidal and never have been!

All I did last night was ask her a question in an apparently offending tone of voice and she just unloaded on me, screaming and yelling like old times, telling me what a piece of crap I am and how I set her up and all sorts of other venting....our daughter starts to cry hysterically and then she gets mad at ME for that too...

So I need some help...I mean WTF? When is it enough....ever?

[jadzea]

I agree. It is time your wife got on with her life. She cannot change the situation and being rude to you does not help.

Your wife's emotional maturity level will dictate how long she will treat you like this. As long as she is angry and hurt and does not do anything to work through these feelings she will blame you and want to hurt you.

She will also treat you like this as long as you let her. Talk to your therapist about setting rules for conduct during times spent with your daughter. She does not need to be exposed to these outbursts. Also, you can refuse to talk to your wife unless she is civil. She doesn't have to like you but you deserve to be treated with respect. Ask for it.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by jadzea

She will also treat you like this as long as you let her. Talk to your therapist about setting rules for conduct during times spent with your daughter. She does not need to be exposed to these outbursts. Also, you can refuse to talk to your wife unless she is civil. She doesn't have to like you but you deserve to be treated with respect. Ask for it.

I agree with everything and especially with the part about conduct rules in the girl's presence. She sure does not need any of that in her life.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by SpiritOfAStorm

We began fighting, screaming yelling, and ultimately I left because I could not stand the fighting any longer.

I am the one who left her

Per OP, you left her because you could not stand the fighting. The fighting was mutual - between the two of you. So it is not quite correct to claim that "you left her".

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by SpiritOfAStorm

So I am the one who had the affairs, I am the one who left her...so here is the question...
How long does she get to keep throwing all that up to me?
How long does she get to keep reminding me of my mistakes, my shortfalls, my lies, my affairs, my decision to "abandon my family."

Is she unhappy with your decision to "abandon the family" to the point of wishing you'd reverse the decision?

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

Per OP, you left her because you could not stand the fighting. The fighting was mutual - between the two of you. So it is not quite correct to claim that "you left her".

I did move out to a Hotel for a cooling off period, and then decided to get an apartment for 6 months and I did tell her that I just wanted away from her...but I was also still being mean and hateful toward her same as she was to me...but her contention is that since I got the apartment (in order to save money, the hotel was 260/week and apartment was 900/month, and I got the 6 month lease in order to give us time to stop fighting and for me to get the help I needed...) but she decided that was it, I got an apartment so I moved out.

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

Is she unhappy with your decision to "abandon the family" to the point of wishing you'd reverse the decision?

No, she decided that she can no longer trust me and is not willing to risk being hurt further by me. I had a very similar situation with her almost exactly 20 years ago when we were younger...I am sure I was just as "sick" then as I was last year and surely should have been diagnosed as BPDll if there was such a diagnosis back then (was there?) because I was surely having a manic episode....I dumped her, quit my job, stopped paying all my bills, and ran off with a lush....then just snapped out of it about 3 months later...it was bizarre as all hell!

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by SpiritOfAStorm

No, she decided that she can no longer trust me and is not willing to risk being hurt further by me. I had a very similar situation with her almost exactly 20 years ago when we were younger...I am sure I was just as "sick" then as I was last year and surely should have been diagnosed as BPDll if there was such a diagnosis back then (was there?) because I was surely having a manic episode....I dumped her, quit my job, stopped paying all my bills, and ran off with a lush....then just snapped out of it about 3 months later...it was bizarre as all hell!

The episode 20 years ago sure sounds like mania.

Having a friendship with a female in 2009, without having an emotional attachment to the female friend, yet running into the problem of the wife/ex-wife's belief that there was an emotional attachment... has absolutely nothing to do with mania.

Just no connection whatsoever.

20 years ago you met many very important criteria for mania - see in bold.

***

not quite related, but still:

I think that you may suggest to her that she spend some time writing down her list of hurts, condensing it into some reasonable shape and form, and doing all of that at some point when the daughter is in school and the ex-wife can have uninterrupted time to concentrate on the issue.

Then she will send the list to you.

Maybe she will then limit the oral venting in the presence of the daughter.

((((Spirit)))) I echo the sentiments of the other members.

Your daughter is your first priority so setting a code of conduct is essential. You are role models and are setting the tone for her future.

*sigh* It sounds as if your ex is going to continue this pattern of negative behavior for as long as you allow it.

I hope your T will be able to provide tools so both you and your ex know it is no longer acceptable to treat you disrespectfully, and to either get with the program (learning to or regaining trust, practicing mutual respect) or it's over.

It's not healthy for any of you to be in this type of situation.

[Mike_J]

My soon to be ex-wife troughs things in my face from 25+ years ago, and not even major things.

I think you are either have to get used to it, or to distance yourself from her, but that isn't 100% possible with children involved.

[Nessa_SG]

I can understand the hurt that your ex wife is going threw, but she also needs to go to counseling and see that she doesn't need to shoot you with a invisible gun every time she sees you or talks to you. What I see is a soul Tie, are you two still sexually together? If so, that can be some of the reasons why she is still emotional.

I know the feeling of a man who shows dishonesty and un-loyaty, but I moved as far away from him as I could. He was a infection in my life and not saying that you are to her, but maybe she is to you. It only takes one adult to make the choice...You have to be considerate around the child, but to entertain the argument or behavior is another...Keep it in the courts...When emotions rise, is when hell begins...

You already knew you messed up, so now it is time for you both to just heal....Maybe if you want something more, get canceling or even CHURCH canceling...God bless you hun, and I truly hope one day she will realize that this energy can be directed to more to positive things...

[BonnieG2010]

Did you say that you are sorry? did you try to explain your reasons to her. You may sound casual as you like but must have had reasons for your behavior. They might have been your own or they could have to do with the couple.

You are telling us the facts but there are lots of emotions involved. Did you try to take care of them and clean them up?
Unless they are not cleaned I don't think there will be any peace between the 2 of you.

The old story can aggravate things, she can be saying to herself that she should have known better since then.
She is of course mad at you, but I guess she is even madder at herself

[inthepresent]

I've been in this place with my relationship before, having done regrettable things to my partner to hurt him. After 6 years of trying and failing to make "us" work, I've come to accept that we're vastly different, I have a lot to work on (which I cannot constantly make his burden) and so does he (which he does not admit). I let him go by understanding and taking to heart the sentiment that BonnieG2010 shared, which is, he is mad at me for things done 5 years ago, but is even madder at himself. Your reasons for letting go may be different, or may not be strong enough to actually let go, but if you focus on accepting your shortcomings and working on them, things will start to get clearer. Good luck, I really hope things work out for you

Originally Posted by Nessa_SG

I can understand the hurt that your ex wife is going threw, but she also needs to go to counseling and see that she doesn't need to shoot you with a invisible gun every time she sees you or talks to you. What I see is a soul Tie, are you two still sexually together? If so, that can be some of the reasons why she is still emotional.

I know the feeling of a man who shows dishonesty and un-loyaty, but I moved as far away from him as I could. He was a infection in my life and not saying that you are to her, but maybe she is to you. It only takes one adult to make the choice...You have to be considerate around the child, but to entertain the argument or behavior is another...Keep it in the courts...When emotions rise, is when hell begins...

You already knew you messed up, so now it is time for you both to just heal....Maybe if you want something more, get canceling or even CHURCH canceling...God bless you hun, and I truly hope one day she will realize that this energy can be directed to more to positive things...

There is absolutely NO sexual contact between us since last August.
I have told her what we really need is a reliable 3rd party to set us BOTH straight on this whole ordeal...it may happen but I wont hold my breath.

Originally Posted by BonnieG2010

Did you say that you are sorry? did you try to explain your reasons to her. You may sound casual as you like but must have had reasons for your behavior. They might have been your own or they could have to do with the couple.

You are telling us the facts but there are lots of emotions involved. Did you try to take care of them and clean them up?
Unless they are not cleaned I don't think there will be any peace between the 2 of you.

The old story can aggravate things, she can be saying to herself that she should have known better since then.
She is of course mad at you, but I guess she is even madder at herself

Bonnie I make certain to apologize any time there is a rucus over what happened. I have apologized so many times even my therapist told me enough already.
I don't mind...but its just that she gets upset and then starts back at day one and runs thru every thing I ever did...paid bills late, didn't get my issues taken care of before we got married....heck at some point I told her I am sorry that I caused Hurricane Sandy to hit NY! She gets on a roll and all I can do is take it and wait till she is done...just NOT when our daughter is around!!!

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by SpiritOfAStorm

heck at some point I told her I am sorry that I caused Hurricane Sandy to hit NY!

And so you should be. Most definitely.

[hamster-bamster]

Also,

Double Jeopardy Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by inthepresent

I've been in this place with my relationship before, having done regrettable things to my partner to hurt him. After 6 years of trying and failing to make "us" work, I've come to accept that we're vastly different, I have a lot to work on (which I cannot constantly make his burden) and so does he (which he does not admit). I let him go by understanding and taking to heart the sentiment that BonnieG2010 shared, which is, he is mad at me for things done 5 years ago, but is even madder at himself. Your reasons for letting go may be different, or may not be strong enough to actually let go, but if you focus on accepting your shortcomings and working on them, things will start to get clearer. Good luck, I really hope things work out for you

I agree with you....she is mad at me for the hurt and pain I caused by my issues, my emotional infidelities, and because I left. She is very upset because she gave up corporate america for her family, then when I could no longer handle how things were falling apart, I left. Nothing I ever did or had was good enough for her.
She is mad because I didnot stay and "fight for my family" all the while she refuses to accept that we had to make major changes (that she did not like!) in order to survive as a family. I could not fix that no matter how hard I tried.
So I made really bad choices in a manic state and destroyed my marriage, my family, my finances...our finances.

First and foremost in my opinion, and you need to talk to her about this is private and make a consensus on this point if absolutely nothing else....DO NOT fight anymore in front of your daughter. You (meaning both of you) are going to cause your daughter to have nightmares and her own MH issues when she gets older. Some of my worst memories are of my parents fighting. Kids internalize things, will automatically blame themselves for your anger, your separation. No matter what problems you have with your ex, spare your daughter from it......

This didn't really answer your question, I know, but sparing the feelings of your child should come before all else....

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

Also,

Double Jeopardy Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

HERE HERE well spoken (Bruce) Hamster-Bamster!!

[just a gurl]

Originally Posted by SpiritOfAStorm

First of all this is NOT a trick question, but one that I really need some advice on..a concensus.
My wife and I split up last August after I had an emotional affair in 2009 (but I STILL maintain she was just a friend, I had no emotional attachment to her), and then last year I also had an affair ONLINE with someone I met in an adult virtual reality video game. We began fighting, screaming yelling, and ultimately I left because I could not stand the fighting any longer.
I have my issues and I have been working on them and taking my meds and making lots of progress. We are now beter friends than we have been in years, we co-parent our daughter, do some activities as a "family" and share duties as parents. I pay all my alimony and child support. I am NOT the same a$$hole that I was this time last year. I DO NOT expect that all is "forgive and forget" but at what point is it enough?

So I am the one who had the affairs, I am the one who left her...so here is the question...
How long does she get to keep throwing all that up to me?
How long does she get to keep reminding me of my mistakes, my shortfalls, my lies, my affairs, my decision to "abandon my family."

I have been told by one of the Church Pastors that she gets to beat me up with it for as long as she wants to, that I have to be a man and take it.
My T says that she is hurting and she does need to vent in my direction, and that could go on for a few months, but as for "as long as she wants to" that is ridiculous!

So I am asking you to weigh in on it...no matter what your opinion is, please share it and don't be afraid to hurt my feelings....I am NOT suicidal and never have been!

All I did last night was ask her a question in an apparently offending tone of voice and she just unloaded on me, screaming and yelling like old times, telling me what a piece of crap I am and how I set her up and all sorts of other venting....our daughter starts to cry hysterically and then she gets mad at ME for that too...

So I need some help...I mean WTF? When is it enough....ever?

Y'know, maybe you can help me....?? First I gotta say, I have no idea when enough is enough. I can understand her being hurt. But from there to say that she can vent on you forever, I don't agree. My feeling is that she will take it out on you until she finds someone new. That said, Maybe now you could explain to me, why the emotional and cyber affairs? Because my man is doing the same. I havn't discussed it with him at all, but I've got a foot out the door because of it. I just wanna know why? Every situation is different I know, but some insight from an outsider? Please, let me know...

Originally Posted by SpiritOfAStorm

First of all this is NOT a trick question, but one that I really need some advice on..a concensus.
My wife and I split up last August after I had an emotional affair in 2009 (but I STILL maintain she was just a friend, I had no emotional attachment to her), and then last year I also had an affair ONLINE with someone I met in an adult virtual reality video game. We began fighting, screaming yelling, and ultimately I left because I could not stand the fighting any longer.
I have my issues and I have been working on them and taking my meds and making lots of progress. We are now beter friends than we have been in years, we co-parent our daughter, do some activities as a "family" and share duties as parents. I pay all my alimony and child support. I am NOT the same a$$hole that I was this time last year. I DO NOT expect that all is "forgive and forget" but at what point is it enough?

So I am the one who had the affairs, I am the one who left her...so here is the question...
How long does she get to keep throwing all that up to me?
How long does she get to keep reminding me of my mistakes, my shortfalls, my lies, my affairs, my decision to "abandon my family."

I have been told by one of the Church Pastors that she gets to beat me up with it for as long as she wants to, that I have to be a man and take it.
My T says that she is hurting and she does need to vent in my direction, and that could go on for a few months, but as for "as long as she wants to" that is ridiculous!

So I am asking you to weigh in on it...no matter what your opinion is, please share it and don't be afraid to hurt my feelings....I am NOT suicidal and never have been!

All I did last night was ask her a question in an apparently offending tone of voice and she just unloaded on me, screaming and yelling like old times, telling me what a piece of crap I am and how I set her up and all sorts of other venting....our daughter starts to cry hysterically and then she gets mad at ME for that too...

So I need some help...I mean WTF? When is it enough....ever?

Your wife is being abusive. I can understand the feelings that she had when the affairs (online) were occurring, however if they were not with another person physically then I don't understand why she keeps using it aginst you. Perhaps if she were to talk with a Therapist about what is really going on with her it would be good for you your daughter and especially get her out of being stuck where she is.
warm thoughts to you.

Originally Posted by just a gurl

Y'know, maybe you can help me....?? First I gotta say, I have no idea when enough is enough. I can understand her being hurt. But from there to say that she can vent on you forever, I don't agree. My feeling is that she will take it out on you until she finds someone new. That said, Maybe now you could explain to me, why the emotional and cyber affairs? Because my man is doing the same. I havn't discussed it with him at all, but I've got a foot out the door because of it. I just wanna know why? Every situation is different I know, but some insight from an outsider? Please, let me know...

For me personally it was a combination of personal issues (self worth, search for acceptance) and I suppose a sort of passive-aggressiveness for all that "I" feel I did for her and it was never enough....it was always like...ok you did this, what will you do next? Like I was never able to meet HER expectations of me so I was in constant search of emotional acceptance because I was sexually satisfied (although now I have been told we NEVER had sex as much as she wanted to) and she refused to fake an orgasm for anyone....and she had plenty of them! Just sayin. I gave up my families home, my restaurant career, anything that she didn't like in order for her to be happy. In retrospect, we both had issues with each other early on that should SHOULD have brought about the end of the relationship...but we were so drawn to each other. Maybe all this is to prepare us for something different? The next phase of our lives?
I am still searching for that special someone that will love me for me...for who I am.
I believe that I have and continue to tackle my issues and no longer use any crutches to get thru life....so I am getting thru life head on!
Hope any of that info is helpful.
Feel free to PM me and I am happy to get more in depth.

[BonnieG2010]

can I ask you something Spirit?

i totally agree that she / you / everyone around must protect the daughter from these scenes.
by the way i hope you both talked to the girl about it and trying to clear that up as much as you can.

my question is: can't you just think and say 'yeahyeahyeah' and not attach any importance to the things she said.
you know, in some very wrong way she maybe sees that all these yelling takes you back into the relationship with her. Even if for the worst part of it, but she can 'feel' for few minutes that you are together again, even only in fighting.

do you think this could fit?

[hamster-bamster]

She gave up corporate America.

You gave up the restaurant career.

Does she realize that you, too, made sacrifices and suffered losses?