Outcast of outcasts

I don't believe I'm alienating people…they seem to like me. The problem is that I don't connect with them and I've lost almost all capacity to care. I don't think I've ever been a very sympathetic person, but I'm less likely to even try to pretend anymore.

I realize I'm not friend or relationship material and seem to not have the ability to be. The only friend I had for a long time and thought we were "best friends" (I've realized that I don't know what it means to have or to be a best friend) even had a strong desire to punch me in the face…and this is from a very patient, gentle person. She also had difficulty with me not being 100% straight and being open with sexuality (this of course was before sexuality was forever ruined for me). And it wasn't like I was being the perfect friend for her at the time. Hell, I wasn't even a GOOD friend…mainly due to the fact that I had no idea what that entailed when I was younger and I don't remember being told. I just assume I was supposed to know. Honestly, I still don't know for sure what all it entails and if it's different for each person.

I've never been in any sort of relationship/friendship that clearly communicated anything on either side and I feel past the point of being able to communicate my own "needs". The reason I put that word in quotes is because I believe almost everything that is deemed a "need" is really a want. We need air, water, and food. That's it.

I have trouble even thinking of myself as "human". I seem to have a human form but I do not think or feel like a human. I'm treated as an object or tool by people…it doesn't matter how I feel, it only matters that I complete the job I have been given.

i think you are have suffered from some bad exp. for a long time that is creating an unconcious barrier between you and others, counceling can help i guess

i'm reading through your post and it seems to me that you have a lot of "walls" up. this is what i gather.

1. you don't seem to like people that are attracted to you
2. you don't have an ability to 'connect' with people
3. you seems to have an aversion to sex or any form of intimacy whatsoever
4. you seem to not particularly care for people

yet at the same time you desire some of the most basic human needs, i.e a relationship.( so yes, you are indeed human..sorry to disappoint you!)

i think what is happening is at some point in your life you suffered from some type of major emotional trauma which has made you distrustful of all people.

therefore the "walls' i speak of are a defense mechanism.
same thing with the potential sex situations and kissing.
anything that could make you potentially "vulnerable" and you shut down

in order to have a happy and healthy relationship..yes you are going to have to have sex and you are going to have to kiss,cuddle and all of these other things..i.e make yourself emotionally vulnerable.

obviously this is no easy task & by your statement about the times you could have and didn't i think you were hoping it would happen so you could "break through' that "wall" and were dissapointed the guys didn't follow through.

most people are crap these days..hence my signature( hee hee) but still
if you want you can get to a place to where you can connect with people.
in order to do so you will need to take some "risks". i believe your inherent defense mechanisms have kinda shut that down.

kissing makes you uncomfortable because it puts you in that "risk zone" so of course the alarm bells go off..and either you don't allow it/allow it and don't enjoy it.

in order to get past this you will need to "let go" of your fears and slowly lower your "walls" until you do this you will remain stuck where you are emotionally.

as far as social situations, eh.. i am quite a social butterfly..but at times i don't really want to be bothered with people(again..hence my signature).
i have met so many people and know so many people that at times they do bore me..but then i'm easily bored(BPD is the culprit..be glad you don't have it)

as far as relationship wise, you are going to have to take some chances and let those walls down ( just a little). intimacy is wonderful..you just haven't a chance to experience the beauty of it.by letting your "walls" down a bit, you just may get that chance..good luck and i hope this helps

In the past year, I HAVE let these walls down and I HAVE taken chances. The only thing it got me was people taking advantage of me and more emotional trauma. There is absolutely no way to tell if someone is a decent enough person to even attempt to trust. Everyone is the same to me. And I don't mean that I simply see everyone as "bad". I simply see everyone as neutral and can't tell the difference until someone does someone horrible to me. And even if I did get a bad feeling about someone, it would just be blamed on prejudices and "I should give them a chance!" and all that BS because neither my feelings nor my intuition matters.

Besides, I'm something less than a person, so shouldn't I be treated as less than a person?

Also, a long time ago when I was a teen, I had what was close to a "relationship" with someone (we never actually dated, but we kissed a couple times so we were more than just friends). I felt safe with him. I felt like I was a person and even felt like feelings were allowed to be valid. And this was also before any emotionally disturbing/damaging events that I can remember. But I still didn't like kissing him. A quick peck on the lips was fine, but making out, no. At first, I didn't think anything of it. Then I thought it meant I was gay. Then I thought it would just better with another guy. But every guy is equally as boring and a chore to kiss. I've never kissed a girl, but I don't see how it could be any different at the end of the day. Maybe the difference is facial hair or lack thereof? Ha.

i can agree with you, there really isn't any way to tell..i have been burned too many times to count..but i have also met some really good people and had a few decent(about as decent as a BPD can expect) relationships.

this person you speak of..you'll meet someone like that again..it's trial and error..yes it's a pain in the keister..but it is what it is.

the kissing is boring to you bcos you aren't letting yourself go in the moment..this is the key to enjoying kissing, me personally i love kissing and enjoy it very much..it is quite satisfying..but if you aren't into the moment, it can and does feel like work.

kissing is more about the person and the moment than the actual act, once you get that perspective it becomes quite enjoyable. so again this goes back to the "walls" if you don't really feel comfortable with the person..it's going to be kinda hard to enjoy kissing them..and yes it will definitely feel like a chore.

try this..the next time you kiss a guy, just for a little while..completely let yourself go and relax and enjoy the closeness..embrace it..feel it.also make out SLOWLY..the fast stuff..sucks and it is work..so yes now you have to find a guy that knows how to kiss too ( yeah i know ,ugh..more work..right! LOL!)

take your time and FEEL the sensations..i assure you with enough practice..your opinions will change. when i first kissed a girl i didn't have a clue what i was doing, after some practice i got better..then when the first time a girl sucked my tongue it was a whole new ballgame.

kissing is like an art & the more you appreciate it..the better it gets. think of your first kiss with your next guy as a blank canvas..you can paint it any way that feels good!

so again..it's not your fault..from what i have heard..there are a lot of guys out there that just suck at kissing, when you find the right one..you'll know.

good luck and i hope this helps!

p.s. almost forgot..you aren't something less than a person..you're just trying to find your way in this crazy place we call the world!

I'd be willing to try all of that if I ever get to kiss a guy that I actually want to kiss again and that I don't mind kissing sober. I'm not sure could even handle someone touching me in any way while I was sober.

Excellent, one step at a time. Start with the kissing and go from there and good luck!

Isn't there a step before kissing though? The whole finding someone who won't pressure me into the physical stuff immediately and that I might actually want to kiss step? I don't even know how to do that...the only person to have shown interest in me recently was trying to push me to hard too fast. I don't think I can feel comfortable or safe around him...and for some reason, I don't feel anything towards him. Even the thought of kissing him makes me cringe.

And as for people I'm actually interested in, there's only one and I really need to forget about him because of who he is and what I likely am to him. Among other things. All the other guys I've had interest in are completely out of my life. Basically, there's no one to practice enjoying kissing with. I go back to school in the fall, but I'll just run into the same problems...undergrads are intimidated by me or think I'm too old and grad students are already married/engaged or in a long-term relationship already. I've tried online dating...they all pushed me way past my boundaries and made me more uncomfortable than before.

And despite the backlash I get from guys, offline I make ALL the first moves the majority of the time.

well yes, you know..the flirting step, getting close to each other to feel the sexual tension..that type of thing yes.

it all starts with eye contact..this shows interest on both parties part, when you lock eyes with someone that's the starting point..then of course conversation and feeling each other out.

online dating is a disaster(stay away! LOL!) i won't mess with it..huge waste of time. face to face is easily the best. by a long shot.

so the guy that's trying to push too hard too fast, may want to scratch him.
really you want to be somewhere in the middle, some one that knows what to do without being overly aggressive..sexual hints in conversation is good, obviously you don't want the guy to go overboard, but you want to know the guy has some experience and can walk you through this and be understanding.

it's good to make the first move..because you are in control and can see what direction things are going to go, i believe if you keep at it..you'll be fine.

the whole dating/mating game can be difficult at times..largely bcos of compatibility issues( kinda like what you were referring to in a previous post)
but it can be done, takes time , practice, trial and error.

me i have it down to a science bcos i have a lot of experience, so i know what to do, what not to do & how to read signals & interpret them.now, of course i don't get every single girl i go after.but i'm quite successful & proud of what i have been able to get done

How do I get around the fact that I'm incompatible with everyone? For the few people who have found me attractive, none of them has been the least bit compatible or they'd rather be with someone else (even someone they don't really like). At this point, I'm competing against everyone's exes…it's like they all fall in one of two categories:

1. The "I really like you, but I'd dump you for my ex in a heartbeat if they would ever come back into my life (but they won't)" camp.

OR

2. The "I'll push you and guilt you into something physical immediately" camp. I have no idea why people can't wait until at least the second date to touch someone…And apparently it's a joke that I don't want to be kissed (or worse) on the first date.

Just for #2, I'm incompatible with nearly everyone.

Sexual tension pushes other people away from me or pushes me away from them…it just doesn't do anything positive for me. Especially if I'm punished for acting on it…if I make the first move (which has to happen in any real life situation in my case), the guy tends to get mad or scared. If a guy would ever make the first move, then I wouldn't feel desperately like I have to every time. And if I wasn't punished for it more often than not, I'd make the first move more often.

Speaking of guys, I wish I had more guy friends, but the friendships never last long because if we connect at all, I almost always get a crush on him and he of course doesn't want that…or it hurts too much for me. And the same thing happens with girls, although less frequently and they're not mad/annoyed/grossed out/whatever that I like them…it's just difficult for me. It seems like the only friends I'd be able to have would be people that I wouldn't be able to connect with…but those would be lousy friends.

at times that happens..the competition with the "ex" thingy..i have been through it before..and of course you can't win.

you have to just meet as many people as possible, what you are going through is a lot of the reason i believe people stay in sh*ttty relationships..because it is so much work and difficulty finding someone new.
don't give up hope though, you have time and opportunity on your side.

yes you will run into people that aren't over their ex's..it happens, i went through a similar situation last summer..yes, it sucks..but what can you do?

as far as the "i'll push you into something immediately camp" yes they are out there..doesn't make it easy, one thing that may help is if you meet these guys somewhere for a cup of coffee or a walk in the park, something that is inexpensive of doesn't cost money so they don't think they are "entitled" to anything. this way things can progress without pressure.

dating can get quite expensive these days(especially from a guy's standpoint)
dinner and a movie can easily run you $100 bucks nowadays. i don't take a girl out to dinner unless she is my gf for that reason. that's a lot of money to be spending for someone that may or may not like you..the risk reward profile is not very good.

so with that being said..this can explain the "pushiness" from camp #2.

idk why a guy would be mad or scared when you made the first move unless
A) they are young and inexperienced
or
B) they are young and inexperienced

rarely have i met girls that are that aggressive and when i have , i have had a great time!

so as far as guy friends, i'll be your friend and help ya out & since i'm on the internet here and not face to face you don't have to worry about developing a crush or anything of that nature so this can work really good for you & i will guide you through this maze!