Outcast of outcasts

No matter where I am or what group I'm with, I'm the one who doesn't belong. For the last few years, I've been ignoring that feeling and have been trying to get better at relating to people so I can get the benefit of networking etc. But in the end, I still feel empty because it doesn't matter how much you act the part, if you don't belong, you never truly connect with people. This happens in all groups and no matter how much I have in common with other people so it's more than i just need to find other people. My thoughts and feelings are just unrelatable…I have a problem (mainly a psychological and possible physical) that no one here can relate to and even upon googling, I can't find any answers. That's how removed from the human race I am.

Hello, I.Am.The.End. I am sorry you are experiencing this dilemma.

Shame: The Quintessential Emotion
https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability

I wish you well.

It's more than just shame (although I suppose that's still a big part), but it's just that I never have enough in common with other people. If someone were to tell me I was an alien from another planet, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Also, it's not that people don't want me around, it just seems like people want me around for the wrong reasons. I'm useful to them. I have a car so if they need a car, I'm useful. If they need someone to help them pack etc., I'm there because my time is pretty flexible. I don't have kids, a relationship, or a regular 9-5 job. Nor do I start school again until late August. So I'm very useful because I'm not busy to the extent a normal person is. And I have skills and talents that I suspect that if I didn't have, no one would bother even acknowledging my existence.

Now that I've become less "available", I've become more or less invisible. Or maybe people are just leaving me alone now for some other reason, who knows.

I just can't connect with other people even if we have everything in common. There's still nothing to talk about. Besides, what's the point of me talking when nothing I say makes sense or means anything to other people? I just sit and listen, but even that isn't good enough for them! I mean, be happy that you found someone who can listen to you rant about XYZ for hours and doesn't mind! Why should you care if I ever get to speak or express myself? It's not like you understand anything I say.

And the communication is getting WORSE, not better. Now, apparently my explanations of simple things are not understood. And here I was going to teach at the college level someday, but if my explanations of simple things are apparently in a language foreign to humans.

Hello again, I.Am.The.End.

15 Common Cognitive Distortions | Psych Central
Fixing Cognitive Distortions | Psych Central

I honestly can't tell whether I'm being laughed at or not at this point. Whether my feelings are "wrong" or "disordered", they're still real.

I was going over this stuff in therapy and was almost sold on the idea until now because at least my feelings were still considered real and not simply laughed at. I really would like to have a discussion about feeling alien within the human race, but I see that I'm so alien, that no one can relate or can't understand what I'm saying.

I don't think your feelings are wrong or disordered. They are legitimate. You are a person with feelings. Not all of us have the innate ability to socialize. I certainly don't.

I can relate to your posts. My entire existence has been in the outer periphery. It mattered a lot more when I was an adolescent and young adult. Now, that I am in my thirties I am not bothered as much by my solitude. I have started to embrace it and use it to my advantage. I'm discovering now.

You seem to be a thinker. Thinkers are different, which makes it hard for them to relate to others. Could that be isolating you?

I'm fine with solitude, but I need a career in music to feel complete in any way and not all of that can be done in solitude. The writing can be done, but I need to perform too.

And I've always had a need to have some sort of relationship/emotional intimacy with another person, but I am beyond able to have a romantic relationship with anyone else because of my aversion/apathy towards sex/touching etc. And to make things worse, I'm not asexual and being in a relationship without any touching would annoy me just as much as one with touching would. At least the former COULD be considered a relationship. Otherwise, only a horrible, horrible person would consider anything that involved physical things to be a relationship. You'd have to hate that person to want to do that to them. And I don't think I'm capable of non-romantic relationships with people either because I've simply lost the ability to give a crap about other people. But then, I'm not a person, so I never had that ability in the first place, right? I'm just a tool to be used…a blow up doll perhaps?

Yes, I'm a thinker so I automatically can't relate to most people. But you'd think I'd relate to other thinkers, wouldn't you? And perhaps we do…until things become physical.

How do you know you can't have a relationship? Did you know it is possible to be in the kind of relationship you described? You just have to find the right person, one who is more interested in knowing you emotionally than sexually.

It is hard to make friends if you don't give a crap about people. It is even harder when you have trouble socializing.

I don't have trouble socializing per se, but I apparently have problems with communication and connecting with other people in any meaningful way (at least on a long-term level). The closest I've gotten to connecting to someone else wound up to be simply me misreading their intentions. I realized this after we had spent the night together. We never had intercourse, but almost everything else happened.

It's difficult to care about people when you're not sure if you are one yourself.

I totally get what you mean *hugs*

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry to hear that! I kind of feel the way that you do at times. I have never really fit into any group either since I'm not a follower. I don't like conforming to certain rules and expectations. Anyways, maybe you'd be better off spending time with people one on one. I do better connecting with people one on one. I hate groups.

As for those people who disappear when they don't need anything from you, and then reappear when they do, they're just using you. They don't care about you at all. Also, why should you always listen to them talk? Maybe you should work on your low self-esteem and try connecting with people that you have more in common with. Maybe then you can have an intimate relationship with someone if you can connect with them on an emotional and mental level. I don't know. Don't let yourself be used. It's better to be alone then to be treated like an object for other people's selfish needs.

Hello I.Am.The.End. I very much related to your post. There are others out there like you who feel like a "social outcast." I've felt that way a long time... I still do somewhat.

You can be proud of being unique, but I bet the pain of not being close to another person makes it not worth it sometimes.

Reading your text, you sound very intelligent. From what I've heard and read, most people with high intelligence feel different from everyone else... Jus' sayin...

You seem to connect fine over the internet. It does seem like a miscommunication or expression problem. Did you know there are mental disorders that cause the person to feel alienated? Many of them do, even though the person may be very high functioning (often higher functioning than "normal" people), and may live in much more emotional pain because of this. You may want to talk to a therapist more about this. It's hard, and it's hard to get over your inner rejection of this idea. I don't know how you feel, but I didn't like my first session of therapy. I thought the therapist was only putting me down and belittling my feelings, so I decided not to go back. However, over time, I was convinced I had something I needed to work out with a therapist. I then realized that the woman didn't do anything wrong like that purposely, and it was my own distrust of people who get close to me stopping myself from progressing. So now I continue.

I understand if you don't, but can you elaborate more on your physical and mental ailments? Maybe some people could understand it. If you don't want to, please ignore this.

You are also musically minded? Great! Please forgive me if I make music sound cheesy by calling it "musically minded," I'm not always great with words. Anyways, that sounds like a stress relief. Can you express yourself through music? People who may not be able to show their feelings can show it through other ways.

If you want to become a teacher, I don't think great connection skills are actually necessary. Maybe a little, but I found that people have such high respect for college professors that they'll listen to them no matter how "funny" or "strange" they are.

Please take everything I say with a grain of salt. You know yourself best, and I respect that. I wish you luck.

I would connect better one on one, but I don't feel safe alone with people anymore. Spending time alone together inevitably leads to something physical that I may or may not want. I certainly don't want the emotional fallout that happens afterwards. I don't ever want to be touched again outside of a relationship if even then. And I can't have a relationship if I can't connect with people. And I can't connect with people without being able to be alone with them and on and on.

I was actually liking therapy until I've read various stuff on here and it sort of turned me off of some of the ideas in therapy. It's hard to explain.

And music is only a stress relief if you do as a hobby…if you do it as an academic pursuit/profession it's very stressful. Especially since most musicians connect and I don't. I can do all the non-verbal communication within the context of performance but not outside of that.

I'm not sure people really respect professors much anymore…I've seen a lot of disrespect in my years as a student and it's usually only certain professors they tend to not have respect for. And teaching isn't my first choice for a career, but it's the safest and most logical choice if I want to stay in my field. Besides, I'd have to teach some time even if I played/composed professionally. I just feel it's the only situation where people might pretend to accept me. I know playing in groups is the closest I've gotten to "fitting in" but I feel I'm usually kept around and have people being nice to me because I'm somewhat irreplaceable. Three years later, my old band still doesn't have a truly permanent replacement for me and I still play with them when I'm in town.

I'm not sure I know myself best either. I mean, I don't really know what's best for me or what I want anymore. Nothing is anywhere near how I thought it was that I can't even adjust my approach. I feel extremely disillusioned.

Hello I.Am.The.End., I'm so sorry to hear you're having a real hard time. I'd like to help you, and it's not because I'm gaining anything out of it but feelings. Some of the things I say might be harsh. If you know it will bring you down, please skip this over. I'd like to be honest. So you would like to connect with others, but you don't connect to groups and you don't feel safe alone with others for fear of being touched?

With groups, you may just not want to deal with groups. If you really do or need to, maybe you should work on dealing with them. You may not like the "group mentality" they have. Or maybe you just don't like the people too well? That's understandable. It may be the people you are hanging around aren't nice, even if you have the same interests as they do. If you don't know how to "jump in" or feel everything you say is taken badly by everyone else, than you may want to work on that. Look at the areas in your parts of the conversation that people don't like, if that's the case, and figure what it is your saying. If it's your mental and physical disability, you may need help from people with the same problems or a therapist. I know you said not many people have the same problem, but there's so many people on this Earth that they may just be hiding. Of course, I don't know what you have, but I'm sure others have what you have. Are you very sure of what you have yet? We are all human, too. I just want to let you know.

Now on touching, I'm assuming you're thinking of being sexually touched, correct? It's understandable if you're only interested in people you are attracted to that it could happen a lot. You don't have to be alone with people who are sexually available to you. You can make friends outside of people you're interested in or who aren't interested in you. But you said you don't care about people like that? Then maybe it's part of your type of personality. I personally am purposely a little colder in relationships (friendships) with people who I feel might be interested in me, or I think I am interested in. You should set your boundaries, and stick by them. It's hard, but manageable. If you don't like to be touched by anyone, than let others know. I do, and it's never a problem. If you do make friends with people who are sexually available to you, please remember to keep the boundaries you want and don't let anything slip. It sounds like you are very capable of making friends. Maybe you can give nonromantic relationships a try? I've never had a romantic relationship before, and I can say they honestly sound like a lot of work as well...

About friends, you should also ask yourself if you really want friends. Even if you think you don't, remember that no friendship is perfect and takes a lot of work from both sides. Sure, some people may be happy to yap and yap while you listen, but most people don't like to be friends with someone who doesn't talk much. They may start to feel like they're talking to a "doll" and get bored. Plus, some people take advantage of these one-sided relationships. A lot of people are okay with not having friends, or having just a few close friends. I think the later takes up the majority of all people.

Plus, when you talk, how are you sure what you're talking about isn't understood by the other person? It's strange that when you simplify it, they still don't understand? Are you simplifying your words enough? If you are, maybe the other person just doesn't want to learn it. Are you speaking clearly? Some people may just be distracted by other aspects of you, like if you have a strong stare. Plus, some people like hearing about new things they don't understand. Explaining things to people is one of my favorite parts of conversations.

Also, it sounds like you're in school and busy working on what you're doing. If you work too, than yes, you are as busy as a "normal" person. Some people don't understand or remember what it's like to be in school. When they ask for you to do things, please remind them that you're tired or have been working. If you are less available, than of course people won't be as connected to you as before. You're busy, so there's no time to hang around you. Some people just don't want to understand that.

Thank you for explaining that music is stressful for you. It does seem you love it and are willing to stick by it. Do you have other interests or hobbies you can do without other people? There are thousands of things a person can do alone. I personally like writing and drawing. It's a big relief to do something that you can fully concentrate on and have your mind taken off other things. During a very rough time in my life, writing was what kept me going. It lets you be yourself. There's crafts, arts, sports, woodworking, and even travelling that can be done alone.

Often, when I'm in a group and don't talk, people may just glance at me but flat out ignore me. I've always felt like a bad person for no clear reason. Actually, from a young age, most people have excluded me and put me down for no reason. Even as an adult people like to insult me and ignore me. I usually have had friendships with people who don't care who their friends are or people who are mean and use me. There's probably many reasons, but I think the main reason I'm left out often is that I barely ever change myself to make others agree with me. I'm not the type to try to force myself to fit in, and I keep my distinct personality. Some people just want to be around others who are like them, and everyone else who is different is "wrong." Jeez... I've had to learn to deal with different personality types over time. It's not so bad... Spending time alone is not so bad either.

I feel like I must have miscommunicated everything on this thread. I thought I was being clear too...I'd go into more detail, but I don't have time right now and I'm not sure if there's a point. I apparently can't even communicate the basic ideas.

I'm so sorry if I'm not understanding you, but I thought you were very clear. Could you explain how you were misunderstood? Only you can know how you're feeling and what's in your head. People can only read what you write, after all. Do you just want to know if others feel the same way you do? I hope you find what you're seeking, and I wish you luck. Even if people don't understand someone, just like someone who speaks a different language, it doesn't mean they don't care and try to communicate. Please take care.

Well, I have to deal with groups if I want to have the career I want. Being able to deal with a group and actually connecting to people within that group are two different things. I can interact with them professionally and even casually, but it doesn't mean they known anything about me or vice versa.

I've stopped liking people at all. Any capacity I had to care has been systematically destroyed as I grew up. All I know is that if you care at all, it will be used ruthlessly to further their own gains.

Touching usually happens when they like me because I don't initiate. I can't ask for it either as that would just come off wrong and I'm apparently bad at hinting at it as I've lost any opportunity at a second date by trying to hint that I wanted something more. By something more, I mean kissing or something, but it must have come across as I wanted to have sex with him because he straight up disappeared. In other instances, I really don't even want to kiss (I have to have been drinking to even kiss someone) but it always goes there and much farther. I'm still technically a virgin somehow (there have been at least two people who had the opportunity to make me not a virgin and I'm actually very surprised they didn't just have sex with me even if I told them not to. Who was going to stop them? Nobody. Who would report them? Not me. Would they ever get in trouble? No. I'm more terrified of the police than of them anyway.

Besides, it doesn't matter what I say. Even if I say I need to be in a certain position, they would pretty much ignore me anyway. Usually I'm not mentally nor physically present in any sort of situation where it becomes sexual. Even at the mention of a kiss, I shut down and am unable to say anything. When forced through a sexual encounter, my mind goes to anywhere else it can. I've never even enjoyed kissing and it gets worse with each subsequent encounter. The last person I went on a date with I told upfront that anything less than an emphatic "yes" from me is a no. And for some sadistic reason he still asks me for a kiss at the end of the date. At least he interpreted my inability to think or speak as a no rather than a yes. But of course it's a joke to him…I should have never gone on a date with him. I was never attracted to him in the first place…I just give a chance to anyone who likes me (because that doesn't happen very often). I should also note that I'm never attracted to anybody who's attracted to me. Oh and everyone is always technically sexually available.

To make everything so much worse, the healthier I am, the higher my sex drive is. I have to stop what I'm in the middle of doing to take care of myself so I can even concentrate and not be on the verge of pain (it's a weird sensation to describe). And there's no actual reason for me to become aroused half the time that I do. And despite how much I despise it and think of it as a chore, I get off easily by myself usually. I can't get off with someone else. I lose any ability to feel anything.

Just because I'm polite enough to listen to someone talk about something that's a really big deal to them that no one else wants to listen to because it's a long dark story doesn't mean I don't talk.

I know I'm not being understood because I often get responses that contradict what I said or ask a question that I answered several times. I can see on here clearer because it's all in writing.

My jaw's messed up so I have a slight speech impediment (it was apparently much worse when I was a kid) and perhaps I use too much slang/accent in casual conversation but other than having to repeat myself or restart a sentence, I really don't know how I can be much clearer. There's really not a whole lot I can do…I guess never hang out around people who use slang or speak in other languages that I'm not fluent in? But still, even if I'm trying to talk completely normal, I apparently still have an "accent" or so I've been told.

I'm not working and I'm not in school. I'll resume school in the fall, but I'm taking a break from that and doing some gigs hear and there for a bit of money. So technically, no matter how much I'm doing, I'm not doing anything at all. I'm no where near as busy as a normal person. I don't have a relationship. I don't have a family outside of my parents. I do most things alone, almost to the point I resent them. I write but I keep asking myself why bother? If I do write, I write with the intention of being published, otherwise there is no other point and since writing is my secondary area of experience/expertise etc., that's probably not that likely. So again, why bother?

I personally have seen a reason that people excluded me/put me down etc. As a child/teenager, I was ugly, top or near the top of the class, teacher's pet, either too skinny (as a child) or too fat (as a teen), I didn't understand the games other kids played etc. etc. I've had to change the way I look in order to not be ignored. And apparently it's worked because if I'm doing something that ends up on TV, the camera (and editors) focus on me and usually not the other people around me.

You're a person and you are not a Alien. You are the one that is holding you back. We are the ones that are our worst critic and really nobody really thinks about you that much as you think about yourself. It is good that you go to therapy and I hope you get a positive outlook on things from it.

Honey, are you sure that you're not projecting some negative feelings you have about yourself onto others? Do YOU think of yourself as "different" or unwanted or whatever? You seem to me like a good person! So I have to wonder if maybe you (for some reason) have convinced yourself that others see you in a bad way?? I don't think any of us at PC would think you were an "outcast"! Anyway, I hope things get better for you and that you find what you're looking for in this life!

I'm the one who goes out and makes friends. We just don't connect and I give up after a while. It has nothing to do with them not liking me. It's just that despite how much we have in common, I don't connect to them. Maybe I'm not supposed to feel anything or for some reason, I can never feel satisfied by my connection with other people?

Well, I AM different, but I'm also wanted. (Just never wanted by the right people. Ha!) But seriously, I'm actually quite wanted. I just don't get anything out of being around other people. I just want to get something out of it.

I also don't think people see me in a bad way. Maybe they did at one time, but not anymore. Perhaps the word "outcast" isn't the best term although that's what it feels like. It's like no matter how well I get along with people, no matter how much they like me, how much we have in common…I still can't connect to them.

Another example is at least until recently, I've wanted a relationship only to have no interest on the other end. Now that there is, I'm not developing feelings for these people who seem to have "feelings" for me the second they start talking to me online. Even if it's just physical attraction, I don't have physical attraction for them (especially not that quickly). I just don't understand why it's always like that. And if I like someone, even if they pretend to have interest in me, it's either only temporary or just a lie to get something from me. I seriously don't understand how mutual attraction is possible. It seems just by just psychological reasons alone that it would be impossible to like someone who likes you and vice versa. And I bet no one else can relate to that!

Well, I believe that's how most romantic relationships are formed. By a mutual attraction. I'm sorry this is taking a long time for you to find a relationship like this. It sounds like some people do spend a lot of time searching... Could it be possible that you're not attracted to people who are attracted to you? Such as, you cut the relationship off early?

Well, of course you're supposed to feel something... Maybe you're unsatisfied with how you don't become closer to others? Would a closer relationship to others feel okay with you? Or would it feel uncomfortable or strange? There may be deeper issues here bothering you. Of course, I'm only giving my two cents, so I'm not sure.

well, now i'm DEFINITELY an outcast. just burnt the bridges with all of my friends in my own country and have a few acquaintances on fb on which i solely discuss music with. two friends remained her in brazil: my uncle and a guy who i haven't being accepting visits or phonecalls due to me being bedridden for a month and a third; and i talk to one single nice kid and virtual bandmate from england in fb.

i follow hellogiggles on fb and just saw an article of making new friends as you get old. coincidence or not, makes me hopeful. i need someone to be with, whether a loving partner and/or friends, but ones that i don't have history with, for mine was only lies, drugs, money, sycophantism. no, i don't feel like a victim, but they've got a good 90% of the fault for me alienating them all - they just never wanted to know me, to undestand me, and just used me for the talents that due to a handicap, i don't have anymore. so the person they called by a certain nickname won't respond to it if by any chance im meet them again in person; i wish so bad that this will never happen. so that's it, no more 'weirdo of the 'gang'' no more outcast, i want new friends and it'll take years for it, but at least now i know better.

i know better.

An update:
I just found out that the two people (a couple) who may have been the closest I could have had to friends are moving to another state. Not like I blame them or feel any resentment towards them, but now I'll be even more alone than alone, if that's even possible. And I just think that given more time, maybe we could have fully bonded like real friends…or even like family…I even lived with them for a few days before my lease started on an apartment and I needed to be in the city. So it's almost like losing an Aunt and Uncle…and I have almost zero contact with any family other than parents as it is.

I'm not sure what to do at this point…I could hang out with this guy that is interested in me (but I'm not in him) but that just seems like a bad idea that will just lead me into doing something physical that I don't want to do.

But everybody just disappears and/or moves away when I even attempt to get close. Or there's too much sexual tension for anyone to be comfortable (this happens with both genders). So what's the point? In order to be friends with people, do I have to completely shut myself off emotionally? Should I only attempt to be friends with people in a long-term stable relationship in order to avoid developing feelings for each other?

And it's not just on here but in real life I notice that I can't share my opinions/thoughts because they're just misunderstood and that just causes fights.

Seriously, how does anyone have any friends at all?! How does anyone ever experience any closeness in families? It's so completely foreign to me that I don't know how I'm human.

I can totally relate to that feeling. The way I see it, you should just be yourself and attempt to be reasonable, If you think you're alienating people, well what can I say about them? Most of them don't know their a-- from a hole in the ground, so why would you expect them to understand you? You gotta choose simple those who DO and have enough open mindedness to understand your thought patterns, opinions, etc. You shouldn't shut yourself off, lest you'll simply shut your LIFE off. And don't sell yourself short. The guy might be interested in you and you're not in him and that's the end of the story. And yes, you are human, just not HUMAN, the worst kind of bipedal living organism on this planet.