[SilverSprings]

I know this is a personal question and specific to each relationship. My bf and I are similar in that we always had friends of opposite sex throughout our youth and college years. I was even close with a guy when i met my ex-husband, but as time went by, I lost touch and had similar circle with my ex-H (then husband) which were male and female, but it was a mutual circle.

Fast forward divorce, friends having kids, evolving with life.. add in my new BF, both in our 30s, no kids. He left most of his female friends behind in his country (he is not from US). He has held my hand throughout this whole mess of me dealing with my mental illness. I just miss the platonic male friendship lately. My girlfriends are great- but they are all having a family, hardly ever available! and I can not really relate. It seems much of the time it makes me feel a bit like an outsider- and that something is wrong w/ me.. I mean EVERYONE is having kids that i know. my sister, my best friend is on her 3rd (she is younger then me!) *this is all a topic for another post* but sometimes i want to go to a bar, or coffee or whatever with someone more relate-able..

The kicker is: when BF and I met- he claimed that guys and girls can not be 'just friends'.. that as long as the female end does not pursue or hint at more, nothing will happen..., but the male side will want it- and fantasize about it. I think I understand his concern, maybe it was cute to see his possessive side a little bit (after a marriage of hell). He showed me youtube videos of college polls, he tried to be cool about it. but i sensed he was trying to control me a tad or afraid of losing me (his history explains all of that insecurity). I forgive him for that.... or perhaps he is even guilty or knows what happens in a guys mind simply b/c he is one. (guys - thoughts? )

Here is where I feel things are hypocritical: My bf will visit his friends rarely (maybe once a year at most,) but he will gather with all his female friends, where he is the only guy. He told me he probably had 'something' with most/all of them at some point! (jokingly.. but we are very open about our past and i am no saint). I was really jealous, insecure (this is pre- Dx) it was embarrassing how later in a drunk/jealous rage: i freaked out completely -- Ugh! truth was exposed.

He still has female co workers that he has lunch with. Casual friends, whom i met and def dont feel a threat. But, one time he got together w/ a old intern friend (female) visiting for a drink ('networking') and also, it triggered me so bad, I had complete breakdown, freaked on him, feeling so jealous (again, prior to Dx).... He also is a really handsome guy, tall and model face. He is very sweet to me, he calls me lovely things and we have a very intense affection, I am not lacking in the attraction area in the least- no one compares, and from what he says, it is mutual

~~~~

Present day: We are legal domestic partners, and we plan a future together. We have both grown very much more in love. I have seen him deal with me at my absolute worst! He is here, standing by me each step- even when he had every right to walk away. Lately however, I feel I need a bit more of a support circle. Yes, i have my family, and friends- but i am wondering if it is ok to reach out to some male friends too. And not always dump my worries on one person..

I also dont think it is fair that i completely give up on having male friends. I have a guy friend in mind now.. I want to hang out with him, He knows i have serious RL, and even be open to meet my BF.. things started off weird w/ that friend, but i made it CLEAR of my intentions to be just friends. And have put him off for a year+ b/c of that fear.

I would like to get a guys perspective on life, brotherly / friendship. I have a closeness to both my bros, who are away at college now... i feel a void. My Ex-Husband and I used to be friends up until last year, when I cut him off which was SO hard for me.

Is this a mistake or do I deserve to be trusted with male friends? Do guys only want that one thing afterall, and will hope and want more one day? Is it possible to have just a friendship with a guy, when you had something or even just a fling togeher? I feel like guys, in general, are much less DRAMA. which is appealing to me!

thanks for input.

I have some rather strong thoughts on this.

Male friends I think are okay, but as soon as they evolve into being a confidant they are problematic. If you have to turn to such a male friend at a time when you are in emotional need instead of your partner you have crossed a boundary and I believe the relationship has become inappropriate. If you have to hide any aspect of that relationship then it is inappropriate. If you have to start being secretive then that relationship has become inappropriate.

The litmus test is: how would my partner feel about this? What is their expectation?

If at all your answer is that he probably wouldn't like it then you know what direction you must go.

Friends of your partner's same gender are perfectly okay - but I think one needs to be completely open about them with one's partner. Not talking about them in front of your parter sets up alarm bells. Conversely talking about them and conversations you've had might make the relationship less suspicious. For example if your partner knew you were in contact socially with a guy at work and you never mentioned anything about it he would probably be uncomfortable. But saying yeah I spoke with such and such yesterday and he was telling me he had a bad day, would be a lot less threatening.

I am rambling. I hope this makes some sense.

[healingme4me]

I, in being divorced and (questionably) single can honestly say, I don't have any close nor casual male friends.
I don't count my exh because it's all about kids when talking

Yes, outside of my support group, I don't have any male friends. As for the men in my support group I have always talked about what kind of things were said during meetings and afterwards when everyone socializes. Again, I don't need to go into specifics but letting him know that one guy might haave talked about girl trouble another talked about their car, etc I am giving the message that I am being open. I think to do otherwse might make him feel uncomfortable. (naturally he knows that some stuff can't be discussed outside of group but I think simply saying so and so is really having a bad time or such thing soothes those hackles from rising up).

So yes, I think it's okay to go and have a male friendship - just as long as it is within boudaries

I would agree with this:

The litmus test is: how would my partner feel about this? What is their expectation?

I do have a few male friends, mostly casual, one close. With my closer friendship we've always had to be aware of boundaries especially as I'm happily married and want to stay that way. There are certain things (such as my marriage or his relationships or sex) I won't ever discuss with my male friend and he respects that. It's required much more thought than same gender friendship, but I agree it's nice to have a man's perspective, and I do think men and women can successfully be friends in many cases.

I also agree about all conversations between friends being open to your partner - and meeting each other is essential. Everything, texts, emails have to be open and visible.

From my experience I would also recommend telling your partner why you would not consider your friend a potential romantic partner even if you were single. This helped reassure my husband hugely, and it also helped clarify things in my mind. A note of caution here, if you would consider your friend as a potential partner if you were single then it's not a good idea to maintain a friendship.

[~Christina]

I am married and have male friends, my husband has female friends. We have respect, love and loyalty. We have no problems.

If a friend were to want more than friendship from either of us then there would be a problem for the friend wanting more, I would imagine him or her would be left out of our life.

I do believe it's very possible to have close friends of the opposite sex.

Consider yourself fortunate Christina because I don't think that having closed friendships with the opposite sex is often successful. I am happy at least that it does work out in some relationships. You are certainly stronger than I am because I know myself, I could not make it work.

[A Red Panda]

I'm female. I have male friends, and I would never give them up for a relationship. The way that I see it... if my partner doesn't trust me enough to maintain my male friendships without thinking sex is going to happen... well, he wouldn't be my partner very long.

I'm also someone who would introduce all my friends to my partners, so yeah.

Basically, I won't end a friendship because someone else wants me to. Anyone who truly cared for me as a friend or in a relationship, well, they should know and trust me enough to know that I am friends and am respectful of boundaries and all of that. Anyone who would make me choose is going to make me choose not-them.

[healingme4me]

I hesitated on that thanks nod, a bit. Typically it's an unpopular minority statement. Doesn't make either stance right or wrong, in my opinion. However, I know myself. My life's experiences, life experiences of my personal friends and family. My preference seems in the majority in my personal life. Not that I'm not friendly with acquaintances and colleagues, I am friendly in that aspect.
I can't fathom having any more time nor energy to give to anything more than I give.

I guess I have been tainted by experience. My expectation is for complete honesty. Three, now possibly 4, relationships have ended because that couldn't be respected. It turned out that I shouldn't have been trusting that their 'friendly' relationships with other women were on the up and up.

I've done a lot of soul searching; taking a hard look to see why I might have been the cause. Perhaps yes maybe there was something lacking but in all cases I just couldn't compete with their 'friendships'. In two of the cases I chalk it up to middle age crisis and friendships with unbelievably hot young girls. In both cases my husbands were in a leadership positions over them. The third case was an example of an 'innocent' internet relationship taken to the real world. In all three cases I they insisted that these were just friendships.

No wonder I am so opinionated by this topic.

[healingme4me]

That's ok, rcat...I'm completely battlescarred on the topic, myself . And I refuse to lower my standards. So, for clarity, I would just choose to not be involved with someone who is/was overextended, or at least not knowingly so. That's getting to know you stages, as it is.

[SilverSprings]

So- The consensus seems to be that it is OK, with boundaries and openness. That if it bothers one side of the relationship- that is to be respected and ended. All of which i think is fair. It is the gray areas, the unspoken fears between both in the RL that I worry more about. Does it build or damage the trust in a RL..?

He is German: he is really honest. He is extremely loyal once in a RL - he prides himself on this. And he is alittle bit younger then me, and never before had a serious RL of this magnitude.

I still wonder: Is it ok to have friendships when i know that the guy had a crush on me and said suggestive things? But that i would NEVER in a million years find him attractive, and my BF knows it too..? I told guy friend the only way we can be friends-- is if he respects my RL. I wonder if this is all too big of a risk? What if he pushes ?
And then, what if a female friend of BF found him attractive? (im sure they do...) does that mean he can not be friends w/ her.. Just b/c she didn't say anything suggestive ?? :/

Sometimes I think its a matter of fairness, and if im being honest: I guess I like the attention alittle. I am sure that is why my BF always gravitated towards his female circle- he loves him some attention. I think it is natural. He is not an A-hole, its just part of who he is, he is a good, hard working, driven man who is happy with monogamy. (the total opposite of my Ex!) Says he has nothing to hide, texts, pics, facebook- all mine to peruse if i feel the need. That he wants a future w/ me, to grow old together- etc....

~~

There was one time early on when we were casually dating, he went away w/ his brother. They picked up 2 chicks, mostly he was his bro's wingman.. and he told me about it right away.. that nothing came of it b/c he was thinking of me...and realized he really liked me. I couldn't say much b/c we were not technically dating. I guess props to him for telling me.

He had dated around when he first came to the US, and I knew he kept in touch w/ some of them, some he really liked allot but didn't work out for whatever... but they kept in touch, he met one of them for dinner when visiting friends. Again, he told me about it and that it was a quick catch up dinner. And most of the time he said he talked about me. I actually believe him.

I wonder also, if Europeans are more open to this kind of thing. Altho- I have also had 'flings' with females..once my marriage was ending. I was a bit experimental. He knows my past and tendencies... and how I was not so trusting of dudes for awhile

I will talk more with him... I feel sometimes there is a double standard. It is OK for him to meet up w/ so and so claiming "networking"..... or prior "GF's" but for me, there always seems to be a problem w/ guys. (he is fine w/ me having female friends, even FWB.. we even had an agreement if i wanted to go there again it is fine, within boundaries)

It is really a subjective topic i think. And i bet that this kind of open-ness is not for everyone.

:S

Maybe i just need to try hanging w/ one of my male friends and see what happens, how I feel now, and if it seems messy at all, end it quickly.

Gosh, that he had a crush on you adds a whole new dimension to this. I am one of the ones that is uncomfortable with the whole male relationship thing to begin with. Now the alarm bells are really going off.

Remember my litmus test: if the whole thing was reversed, how would you feel?

I just want to point something else out. If you are thinking this might be wrong that tells me then it is wrong.

My issue is: Is it ok to have friendships when i know that the guy had a crush on me? (and expressed it to me, and asks me how my RL is going ..) But that i would NEVER in a million years find him attractive, and my BF knows it too.

I would say that could be very risky. It wouldn't be a risk I would take.

As regards your boyfriend and other women I would say it's up to you to define what 'exclusivity' means to you both, and indeed if you want exclusivity in your relationship.

When you say:

the vibes i get are sometimes there is a double standard. It is OK for him to meet up w/ so and so claiming "networking"..... or prior "friends" ... but for me, there always seems to be a problem w/ guys. (however, he is fine w/ me having female friends, even FWB!!! )

It sounds like you need to discuss that with him, what are his reasons for differing expectations of you?

[SilverSprings]

Originally Posted by rcat

Gosh, that he had a crush on you adds a whole new dimension to this. I am one of the ones that is uncomfortable with the whole male relationship thing to begin with. Now the alarm bells are really going off.

Remember my litmus test: if the whole thing was reversed, how would you feel?

I just want to point something else out. If you are thinking this might be wrong that tells me then it is wrong.

Yes, I agree. I think I need to work on being more empathetic, and acting/treating him in a more mature and devoted way- esp now that I am getting treatment, and sort of learning things all over again. Something as seemingly simple as this has thrown me for a loop.

And your last comment reminds me of what my grandmother always used to say: When in doubt, go with OUT So much easier said then done...

[divine1966]

Friends are ok and it is doable but there is a bit of a danger of emotional affair. I would be uncomfortable if I had issues or a fight with BF and he ran to his female friend and said lets two of us go out to dinner and I'll tell you about my and divine relationship. Yeah. Don't know about that

Also how much emotional energy and time do people really have? I work two jobs a lot of hours and i have hobbies and I have group of girlfriends have family members and have a BF. If on top of it I have to find time to go out with male friends? heck who has the energy or time? I do keep in touch with few male friends and my BF keeps in touch with few females, but we don't have time to socialize with them. We barely have time for each other

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SilverSprings]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Also how much emotionatl energy and time do people really have? I work two jobs a lot of hours and i have hobbies and I have group of girlfriends have family members and have a BF. If on top of it I have to find time to go out with male friends? heck who has the energy or time? I do keep in touch with few male friends and my BF keeps in touch with few females, but we don't have time to socialize with them. We barely have time for each other
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You raise a good point- I do actually have much more free time then my BF and all of my girl friends have very different lifestyle... I have a flexible but lonely job, my family is all I work and socialize with other then my BF who always seems to be working or playing golf.

So to have someone locally to grab a coffee on a whim or lunch etc would be nice. I always had make friends and they were specifically in that category. I like to hang with the boys as I am a bit of tomboy myself.

Gah! Hard call. It's easy to say "if the tables were turned"... But my BF is not typical jealous type and neither am I.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by SilverSprings

You raise a good point- I do actually have much more free time then my BF and all of my girl friends have very different lifestyle... I have a flexible but lonely job, my family is all I work and socialize with other then my BF who always seems to be working or playing golf.


So to have someone locally to grab a coffee on a whim or lunch etc would be nice. I always had make friends and they were specifically in that category. I like to hang with the boys as I am a bit of tomboy myself.


Gah! Hard call. It's easy to say "if the tables were turned"... But my BF is not typical jealous type and neither am I.

Do these friends you want to go out for a bite must be men? I do try to socialize with others when I have time, not just BF or family but I don't look for male company for that. Nothing to do with jealousy but if I want to hang out with a guy id rather it was my BF?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Trippin2.0]

I have male friends in my social circle, one in particular that I hang out with quite often and I don't see why a man and woman can't be friends and hangout if both parties are not remotely romantically interested in each other.


Its been a non issue in my relationship, but then again my bf is not insecure or controlling and he trusts me.


He also has a few female friends, we both have opposite gender friends, it is what it is. And it's ok with both of us.


If there are established friendships prior to the relationship, I see no reason for them to end just because a relationship starts... After all, what if said relationship goes sour, ends, or your partner dies, then you have no, or very little friends.

[SilverSprings]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Do these friends you want to go out for a bite must be men?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No they dont have to be.. I just recall even since i was young, of course had female friends but also boys were my friens. I then had a very good friend who was a boy when i was dating my Ex-H and really liked that he aws around when my BF wasn't. Once my BF and i got serious, that friend fell away, which always made me super sad b/c we shared a really fun silly friendship! I had a few other guy friends still in high school... and then again, in RL they fell away or were even skeptical of my BF and perhaps they had a reason to be so! (we were so not meant to be...)

I feel like- it would be so nice to have another light guy friend around. Girls are ok of course, but i am surrounded by women in my family, and for some reason i tend to get along with guys if not abit better. Sometimes being in a RL makes me kind of resentful that this freedom is taken away from me.

I even placed an ad for a 'gay guy friend' lol. a few years ago. i just felt like i needed someone cool around who didn't want to 'get in my pants'

I told my BF last night, that perhaps i want to hang w/ this male friend. This male friend and I have been texting, he is going away and offered to buy both my BF and I a little gift/ souvenir. I found it cool. They are both not from the US... where cultures are so differnt it seems.

I had a best friend who was a girl- that completely fell apart and exploded with huge drama, and honestly it turned me off from her. Now, i feel bad b/c we were good friends. We still stay in touch she is expecting baby #3. She is super cool still... i miss her but for some reason we dont connect very easily now. Plus- i met her when i was still married to my Ex. She was there for me during our divorce, but that is also the time i told her i was bi-sexual, and we had a huge misunderstanding after.

I find it is really hard to find female (or male) friends now in my 30s .... since i am not married with kids, and it seems my sister and friends with kids have built in opportunities and rub elbows with others that have things in common. :/

I feel that almost every female friendship was very hot and cold, ending in some bad falling out. With guys- i just dont find that happens as much! Idk....

Perhaps it is all the more reason for me to attend a support group. If nothing else, some socializing outside of my circle..

Believe me- i am a loner and introvert about 80% of the time, so im totally OK with not having a millino friends. I find i have a lot of friends lingering the the background, but i am more choosy as to who i spend my time with since my diag and treatment.