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  #1  
Old Oct 22, 2016, 06:56 PM
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Depression is dogging me bad today. I'm probably going back to bed after I post this. It'll pass - like it has a thousand times before. What never changes is the complete lack of understanding I get from my sig. other. Tells me he really doesn't know what depression is and thinks it's something I just do to myself.

What really gets me is that I am making it possible for him to not be in a nursing home. He doesn't realize that, either . . . . says he'ld be fine on his own - a total delusion. The psychologist and nurse practitioner from the local VAMC tell me they are ready to certify that he is unsafe and incapable to be home alone, if and when I find I can't keep doing this. I'm a retired nurse and enjoy caretaking a person I love. I happen to have the exact skillset that is required to meet his very extensive needs. I did succeed in getting him funded for some home attendant services. They aren't much help. He won't accept any "hands-on," personal care from them, which he needs a lot of.

The work I do isn't the problem for me. Him not understanding that I need being cared for too is the problem. He can't serve me breakfast in bed, like he used to enjoy doing. But saying something nice once in a while would mean the world to me. Today he commented that I'm putting on some weight.

The worst thing is his refusal to try and understand anything about chronically recurring depression . . . and his refusal to grasp that little comments he does, or doesn't, make can have a major impact. We've been a couple for a lot of years. I've tried to explain it to him, AND I'm always admitting to him that it is really on me to do what needs doing and not sit around and mope.

I'm starting to feel like a sucker.

Besides coming here to whine, I do have some questions for anyone caring to respond:

Is it just impossible for some people to understand depression, if they've never had that problem themselves?

What would be a reasonable expectation for me to have of him to be supportive?

Do you have someone in your life who is supportive of you, and does it help you to get over depressive episodes quicker?

If, like me, you don't have a source of understanding in your life, do you think it makes your struggle harder?

He's not especially mean to me. Is that about what I should settle for?

Has anyone managed to get someone close to them to understand, even though, for a while, they didn't understand?

I probably should have put this in the depression forum, but I'm really wanting to talk about the impact that a relationship can have on a person's ability to manage depression. Anything anyone might have to say about that would interest me. Maybe I really am expecting what he's just not capable of.
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  #2  
Old Oct 22, 2016, 07:25 PM
tiger8 tiger8 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rose76 View Post
Depression is dogging me bad today. I'm probably going back to bed after I post this. It'll pass - like it has a thousand times before. What never changes is the complete lack of understanding I get from my sig. other. Tells me he really doesn't know what depression is and thinks it's something I just do to myself.

(...)

I probably should have put this in the depression forum, but I'm really wanting to talk about the impact that a relationship can have on a person's ability to manage depression. Anything anyone might have to say about that would interest me. Maybe I really am expecting what he's just not capable of.

Unfortunately I don't think I have the answer for you but I want to say I understand your issue.

I have had that problem with my bf, wondering if he really is incapable of understanding that attentiveness is an important thing.

I guess maybe such people don't have the need or more like, are unaware of the need people have for that, themselves included. Obliviousness.

And yes, I find that having someone who's supportive helps!

One suggestion I can think of - have him talk to a psychologist who can explain how depression is an actual psychological issue/illness and it isn't just faked. Maybe he'd have respect for an actual professional explaining. Just a thought.

Get better soon!
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  #3  
Old Oct 22, 2016, 07:42 PM
Unrigged64072835 Unrigged64072835 is offline
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From my experience I really lucked out with someone who is attentive. However, it goes both ways, as he also has depression and medical issues.

People don't seem to want to be around people who are depressed. Whether it's a problem with society as a whole I don't know. Everybody is trying to cheer us up instead of understanding, and give up when we don't snap back into whatever normal is.

I hope you do find a way to get him to understand you.
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  #4  
Old Oct 22, 2016, 10:59 PM
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in my first marriage my husband did not understand. He had obvious mental health issues himself but wouldn't accept them and he had no sympathy or even understanding for depressives. He would scream, yell and belittle me....always calling me "lazy". He really was/is incapable of understanding the struggles of others. He has too many issues himself which prevent him from seeing the suffering depression causes. He's too self centered amongst other things. So yes, some people are incapable of understanding. Heck, I have depression and I don't fully understand it....I call myself lazy and worthless....if I deal with it and can't understand, how do I expect people who've never dealt with it to behave, ya know?

My second marriage has restored my faith in humanity. My husband gets frustrated and doesn't always say the perfect thing, but he truly tries his best to listen and be supportive. It makes a world of difference.

Have you tried printing out some literature on depression and having your husband read up on it? Or find a website with a good explanation and have him read it? like the above poster mentioned, perhaps you could take him to a doctor and have them explain it.

Let your husband know that his lack of understanding hurts you. (((Hugs)))
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  #5  
Old Oct 23, 2016, 12:21 AM
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When I was in an Intensive Outpatient Treatment program (12 years ago,) I brought him in for some couple's counseling with my psychiatrist. She asked him how he managed to put up with me. He replied that he just let whatever I said go over his head. My pdoc responded that "Yeah, that's pretty much what you'ld have to do." This doctor seemed to think I was just a pain in the *****.

One of her conclusions was that I was an alcoholic and she had me breathalyzed every morning at 8 a.m. Some of my peers who had histories of serious substance abuse took me aside and warned me that I was being way too open with the staff. They understood that I was not a heavy drinker, but that the staff would blow up molehills into mountains. On that score my boyfriend did stick up for me, denying that I had an alcohol problem. Six years earlier, he had finally sobered up after many years of alcoholic abuse. My first 12 years with him entailed me being the main bread winner, while he often staggered home drunk every second night. Sometimes I think that he has been a user and I have been a fool.

He's not one to read anything other than the newspaper, now and then.

I feel like just going home to my apartment and leaving him on his own.

I am content in his company when I feel okay, mentally, which is a lot of the time. But when I am depressed, I'm better off alone. Like he told that pdoc, he just tunes me out when I'm not upbeat. It feels very isolating. He just finds something to watch on TV and gives it his complete attention. He has told me he has no idea how to help anyone who is depressed. When a person wants to stay stupid about something, there is no penetrating that wall of ignorance.
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  #6  
Old Oct 23, 2016, 12:29 AM
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If he shows appreciation, then maybe he feels that is showing vulnerability, and that would give you power over him, which is something he would never accept?

Some people see the world - relationships - only as win-lose, never as win-win.

It feels like, you give to him what you want for yourself. But what does he really want? Maybe he doesnt want you to give up these last good years of your health and life for him? Idk. Can you take more time for yourself?
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  #7  
Old Oct 23, 2016, 02:23 AM
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Hi unaluna. There are men who wouldn't want to be a burden to a woman, though I suspect they are rare. (I've only seen that in movies.) As a nurse, I've cared for men whose women left them when they became chonically ill, or put them in a nursing home. All of them felt the women had been harsh.

During his drinking days, he would steal from my purse. He doesn't do things like that anymore. But he doesn't have a history of being a real noble kind of guy. Yet, I stayed with him . . . so I knew what I was getting.

When I'm depressed I neglect things. That can create problems for me, as other depressives can probably relate to. He will, then, berate me for not being on top of stuff. But he forgets the depths of chaotic living that his past drinking led him into, including homelessness and jail, repeatedly. I say to him, "Can't you be compassionate toward me, since you used to want me to feel compassion toward you, when you would get all fouled up?" "And look how much compassion I had for you, when no one but me would even be bothered with you."

Sometimes, I wish I was a heavy drinker, instead of a person with recurring depression. Over the past 50 years, Betty Ford and others have done a good job of getting public acceptance of alcohol abuse as a sickness. And when a drinker goes on the wagon, praise is heaped on the person. People are given all kinds of pats on the back for quitting smoking. For some of us, maintaining emotional equilibrium is as hard as giving up cigarettes or staying sober is for others.

He successfully stopped drinking and smoking. Maybe that's why he thinks I should just stop having episodes of depression. In between episodes, I'm fine and get everything taken care of. I make sure he never runs out of clean clothes and get him to his doctor appointments, which are frequent. The fridge is kept stocked. I run all his errands and keep his apartment clean. He always has a sparkling white toilet. His meals are planned and prepared and cleaned up after.

But I do have these tailspins, sometimes rather often. So he will say, "Oh, this goes on all the time!" I can be fine for a few weeks, then have a tailspin of a few days, and he'll say, "Oh, something's always bothering you."

I don't go catatonic or hardly ever end up in a hospital. (Last time was 4 years ago.) I dependably take care of all he needs taken care of. People say he is so lucky to have me. He'll agree with them, now and then . . . but not when we're alone. If the dinner I cook doesn't come out perfect, he won't pretend to be pleased with it.

He says I shouldn't get mad at him because, "It's not like I beat you."

That's true he has never beaten me. What more could I possibly want in a man?
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  #8  
Old Oct 23, 2016, 08:30 AM
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You have put up with a lot from him for a long time. You have given him a lot for a long time. But now, what you want, he does not have it in himself to give. It's as if he is still stealing from your purse. But at least you are not alone. He gives your life purpose. You are certainly doing a kindness, a really big one.
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  #9  
Old Oct 23, 2016, 08:50 AM
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I think that we can always make an effort to understand other people's pain on intellectual level. But I don't think we can fully understand on a deep level. It is like I have students with every possible disability and I understand because heck I have lots of schooling and long experience. But on deep level I can never fully grasp how someone might feel.

Like I know what someone with hearing impairment needs and I know what to do to help but I am not hearing impaired so I can only guess how it truly feels not to hear. Same here. I understand how depressed people might feel but I am not them so I honestly don't really know. Saying all that it's important that we show compassion and try to understand/learn.
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  #10  
Old Oct 23, 2016, 08:56 AM
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His comment about him not beating you like it's some kind of accomplishment kind of bothered me. This is disturbing. Sorry
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  #11  
Old Oct 23, 2016, 09:15 AM
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That comment about not beating you up is just disgusting.

I'm really sorry you're going through this Depression is hard to understand.. but still, he doesn't even want to TRY to understand
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  #12  
Old Oct 23, 2016, 05:40 PM
tiger8 tiger8 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rose76 View Post
When I was in an Intensive Outpatient Treatment program (12 years ago,) I brought him in for some couple's counseling with my psychiatrist. She asked him how he managed to put up with me. He replied that he just let whatever I said go over his head. My pdoc responded that "Yeah, that's pretty much what you'ld have to do." This doctor seemed to think I was just a pain in the *****.
That's crazy unsympathetic treatment. That from a professional?

Quote:
I am content in his company when I feel okay, mentally, which is a lot of the time. But when I am depressed, I'm better off alone. Like he told that pdoc, he just tunes me out when I'm not upbeat. It feels very isolating. He just finds something to watch on TV and gives it his complete attention. He has told me he has no idea how to help anyone who is depressed. When a person wants to stay stupid about something, there is no penetrating that wall of ignorance.
And he doesn't think he could learn how to help, either?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose76 View Post
People say he is so lucky to have me. He'll agree with them, now and then . . . but not when we're alone. If the dinner I cook doesn't come out perfect, he won't pretend to be pleased with it.

He says I shouldn't get mad at him because, "It's not like I beat you."

That's true he has never beaten me. What more could I possibly want in a man?
I agree with others here that this is no good. It sounds like an extremely cynical comment, really. It even sounds subtly abusive, in the way I imagine the tone/situation. I could be wrong about that latter part and he could just be really insensitive and disinterested / as a defense mechanism too perhaps. Still no good. My thoughts on this is, don't let him convince you that this is acceptable just because he doesn't beat up you. If you accept it it should not be because he manipulates you into that.

This is my strong conviction about this.
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Rose76
  #13  
Old Oct 23, 2016, 06:58 PM
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In answer to what I think someone asked above. I am on medication. I take amitriptyline for depression and hydrocodone for pain. For a week, now, I've doubled the A.D. It hasn't relieved my depressive tailspin, but it has quite amazingly helped my lower back pain. (Elavil is prescribed quite a bit for pain.) Meanwhile, I am taking doses of Vicodin (hydrocodone) just for the mood elevating impact it has on me. Both these drugs are highly constipating, so I am downing laxatives every few hours. All this pounding down of drugs might have been made to seem unnecessary by just a few nice things, said in the right way, at the right time.

I tell him I need moral support, and I feel zero empathy from him. I keep asking myself, "Could he really be this clueless?" and "Do I really want to maintain the huge commitment to him that I've made, when I get so little in return."

I think it's wrong to threaten an elderly, sick man with mild dementia . . . . but I find myself telling him, "You are going to be back in a nursing home, if you don't make it a little nicer for me to be around you." And that is the truth. His response: "I just won't go back there." He thinks he's got everything under control, while utterly not realizing how totally at my mercy his entire life style is. The guy just doesn't believe in worrying. Maybe, I could learn something from him.

Also - while he was in the nursing home for 3 months earlier this year, I was there almost every single day (for hours), giving him care and bringing him home cooked food. Plus, I took him home every weekend for dinner. I was so worried he would get depressed. If he goes back in, I'm not doing all that again.

As someone above said, I do for him what I would like done for me. But he's not me.
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  #14  
Old Oct 23, 2016, 11:05 PM
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Sounds like an abusive relationship. I would seek professional help to decide what to do about it. I'm sorry you are going through this.
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  #15  
Old Oct 24, 2016, 12:45 AM
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I had a therapist here for 19 years. I am doing what I decided. Maybe, if I could go back 30 years, I would say, "No thank you." and decide he wasn't worth it. But I'm at where I'm at. He's not really abusive. He was never domineering. I guess he was more dependant than anything else. A former boyfriend who wanted me back said I was letting this guy "bleed me." That was true, but he did evolve beyond that quite a bit. Now he doesn't use me financially. But I don't believe he gives much thought to the value of the services I provide. Years ago I did this for pay.

I feel so taken for granted. I like caring for him. I just wish he showed me that he felt fortunate to have me here . . . . and I wish I could go home for a few days at a time. But, no, I run back and forth between his place and mine.

And I wish he realized that I am trying to roll a heavy stone uphill when depression weighs on me. I have "atypical depression," which eases up nicely when I feel cared for.
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  #16  
Old Oct 24, 2016, 08:00 AM
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Abuse isn't always physical or obvious. I think this relationship always was and continues to be somewhat abusive to an extend, even if not obvious.

But it's too late now, you are where you are and you are doing things because you are a nice and kind person.

If you continue helping him, you can treat it as volunteering for people who cant show appreciation ( severely disabled or very elderly etc). You just do it out of goodness not expecting appreciation. Can you get appreciation from somewhere else if you aren't getting it from him?
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  #17  
Old Oct 24, 2016, 10:45 AM
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Trippin2.0 Trippin2.0 is offline
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I haven't the attention span nor the inclination to read the replies right now, (I think im being attacked by weird germs) but felt the need to respond.


With that said, I hope I'm not repeating something you've just read...


No, someone who's never experienced chronic depression can simply never understand any one us who do and does.


I compare it to me trying to understand what its like for my mom to have cancer.


I can maybe understand aspects of what she goes through, (like feeling depressed) but no way in hell do I understand.


Do I find that it helps having a SO that gets it?


Yes yes and a hundred times hell yes.


Not just support wise, but just having someone who gets you and doesn't stare at you as if you're speaking in Dothrakian when you're attempting to explain.


Now the people who don't understand but who want to play a supportive role?


All I need from them is acceptance and some kindness.


Accept that I feel completely shyt and wish I never woke up... For no discernable reason. Accept that this happens from time to time, it just is how it is.


Show me some kindness by either giving me the space and timeout I've requested, or by having a movie marathon with me. Sharing a kind word or two, or just allowing me to cry on your shoulder in silence....


Just so I'm safe from myself for a few hours at best.


So in short, I guess its like I always say, understanding is awesome(and rare), so I aim for acceptance.


So far I don't have any major complaints.
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  #18  
Old Oct 24, 2016, 10:54 AM
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Thank you, divine, for understanding. He's not the cause of me being depressed . . . just not the help he could be, if he were different. I know I don't have to do what I do. I want to. How he is is nothing new. I stopped living with him because the relationship was what it was. But I never really let go. I thought I could live with one foot in the relationship and one foot out. So now, if I want to care for him, I am not home. This is the arrangement that I set up. I didn't know what else to do.

I am spending more time with an old friend. That's not a great relationship either. I seem to attract people who are takers. I kind of look forward to the day when I'll be alone. I suppose that won't end up being what I imagine, either.

I could spend more time doing healthier things. I just have to make the effort.
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  #19  
Old Oct 24, 2016, 11:28 PM
tiger8 tiger8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose76 View Post
I could spend more time doing healthier things. I just have to make the effort.
Yes, absolutely.
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  #20  
Old Oct 25, 2016, 12:53 AM
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Thank you, Trippen. The way you describe him staring at me like I'm speaking in an alien tongue is exactly what he does, if I can even get him to look in my direction, instead of at the TV screen.

Once, years ago, I even took a hammer and swung it at the TV screen, breaking a fairly new TV (that did belong to me.) That's how frustrated I was at him tuning me out. (And that's a clue about how crazy I can get.) Now when I want him to look at me, when I'm talking, I literally stand in front of the TV. His defense is: "I don't have to look at you to be able to hear you." That's when I feel like swinging the hammer at his head.

This business of "I don't have to look at you to hear you." is so flagrantly a head game. It's so obviously passive-aggressive. Come to think of it, when we lived together, I was often certifiably nuts, just from dealing with the passive-aggressive stuff. Anyone would think I was the crazy one . . . and they would be right. He'ld be all cool and calm, while I'ld be coming unglued. Then he'ld say. "You know . . . you're nuts. They better increase your medication up to about a million miligrams." That was in our younger days. I can laugh about that now, and I actually am laughing at the moment. But it didn't feel funny then.

I try to even imagine what it would be like to be with someone who was actually sensitive and supportive. I can't even imagine it. I can't even imagine that there are such relationships like that. I've never had one! I never c/o depression to my parents (God rest their souls.) They would have called it "glorified sulking." I've even internalized that belief about myself. I have a sister who I've learned to never talk to about feeling despondent. Her stock retort has been, "Oh, you just dwell on things too much." When a favorite cousin of ours committed suicide, this sister told me it was a disgrace that no one gave this cousin more emotional support. Yeah, like who? Who in our family wouldn't have been up for that? Her? I lived too far away, myself. Again, there's an almost funny aspect to this - in a black sort of way.

Well, I do really wonder what it would have felt like to have had some support from somebody. Maybe it would have made me more of a baby. IDK. I did often get the support that you can pay for. But that's not the same. You can't hire someone to love you.

Well, maybe I'll be more productive tomorrow.
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  #21  
Old Oct 25, 2016, 01:11 PM
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I wish I could fix it for you.


I wish I could give you what I am so blessed to have.


I can feel your loneliness and pain emanate through my screen and I honestly wish I could take it from you.


Sending you lots of hugs ((((((((((Rose))))))))))




Ps. The tv smashing is so me, you're not alone
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  #22  
Old Oct 25, 2016, 04:01 PM
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You are in a thankless environment, Rose.

How long can someone take that?

Perhaps it's a redundant question, idk. I used to work in a nursing home.
I get the burnout combined with the guilt for actually feelng burnt out...

That said, what would help?
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  #23  
Old Oct 25, 2016, 06:21 PM
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Thanks for the kind comments and understanding. I'm sick today (really sick) from the effects of the extra meds I've been taking. I've got a somewhat unusual intestinal condition that the meds aggravated . . . and I've given up trying to be productive.

Tomorrow will be better, I think.
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  #24  
Old Nov 05, 2016, 06:10 AM
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I keep having better days followed by worser days. He notices. He'll say, "Are you feeling alright?", in the most heartfelt tone of voice. I wish I could describe better how gently and sweetly he says it. If you didn't know him, you'ld swear he was full of compassion and solicitude. He has a nice voice. I'm through falling for that. Now I just say nothing. If he repeats, "How do you feel?" . . . I say, "Fine." I say it coldly and a little sarcastically. Anyone listening in would think that I'm a real byeetch. I guess I am. Well, I'm done with trying to explain that I'm feeling kind of blue, just to have that met with the profoundest lack of interest you can imagine.

I used to admire him for being such an optimist that he couldn't in the least bit relate to what being depressed was about. "You just do that to yourself." he would dismissively say. I thought he was probably kind of right. Well, it sure must be nice to have someone around who finds a solution to your every problem. And he's always had problems galore. I've told myself to consider how bravely he bears up under his partial paralysis and declining ability to function. Somewhere or another I read something about the "tyranny of the weak." It is real.

I haven't brushed my teeth in over 24 hours. The lunch dishes from Friday are still in the sink. He said he wasn't hungry this evening, so I didn't even bother putting supper together. We are now into the wee hours of Saturday, so he is complaining of a headache and a sore eye. He never gets headaches and there's not a da## thing wrong with his eye. But he has noticed that I'm depressed and neglecting giving him the attention I usually give. So he ratchets up his level of neediness . . . because nothing mobilizes me so well as having a need of someone weak to fulfill.

Once, I cut my arms at the inner elbows because I thought it would be a way of making the torment I was then feeling visible to others. I was not a cutter. So opposed I was to bodily mutilation that I wouldn't even get my ears pierced. I'll never cut myself again. I was quite drunk when I did it (11 years ago.) But, maybe, now, I'll just let the dishes pile up and the trash and the laundry . . . to where his apartment will become alarmingly a mess to someone who pops by. He, himself, will become dismayed, if things stop being taken care of. When it starts to really get to him, I can then say, "Yeah, Honey, that's what happens in the living quarters of the seriously depressed. ------- Oh, you want me to do something about it? ------- Yeah, I'll get right on it, as soon as I feel motivated to give a flying fock." It's human nature for people to only give a da## about a problem when it becomes a problem to them. So, if I more-or-less go "on strike," then he'll have a reason to feel some genuine concern that I'm having a problem. At long last, he might even feel moved to say, "Is there anything I can do to for you, Sweetheart?"

I know this is dark and that I'm nuts.
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  #25  
Old Nov 05, 2016, 08:03 AM
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"The best way to make it through with hearts and wrists in tact, is to realise, two out of three aint bad" FOB...
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