Confused

Ok, me n Rose have privately discussed the matters of which you speak - but did you read further to see where he was beginning to become physically agressive with her? I know from another post you do not agree with physical violence to a female. Do you somehow see this particular set of circumstances in a different light or does that still not classify as abuse or did you simply not see it?

I have been abused in the past. People do not start out all out controlling n abusive to the point you can look at it and scream "get away now", they ease into it. The fact that she was indicating this was a new behavior and that he was developing other little new behaviors that were upsetting to her as well as a way to obviously shut her out at least momentarily, are the things that indicated control to me. Those are things he would likely use as a manipulation to get her to do something in order to obtain more attention from him. Yes his guitar is his and yes his apartment is his and yes he has the right to control what happens to these things - but when he suddenly changes the rules on what happens to these things, that's when one has to question "why"?

It's much like if you had a girlfriend with a puppy. The puppy liked to play with you and you liked to play with it, but then one day she started caging it up everytime you came over. Would you wonder why? Imagine other little changes like that suddenly starting to take place. Wouldn't you start to worry and question things? Then you try to talk to her - but instead of talking, she just gets defensive and angry. You figure maybe it is just you, after all - its just little things, right? So, you just drop it, but things dont get better - so instead of trying to talk again, you try to figure out what you did differently when this all started. Maybe you upset her somehow. You think back - and can think of nothing, but try to be extra nice anyway. She treats you better for a day or two and then she gets angrier than ever at you when you try to make a joke and she somehow finds offense even though it was not about her or anyone. See...this is how abuse starts, and the problem is, the reason people do not leave is there is enough hope to fix the relationship you don't want to give up on it, or there is an underlying fear of harm to self or those you love or there is financial control as well. But since control and abuse starts off so gradual and over such a long period of time very few people that know the couple personally will recognize it for what it is and the abuser will often turn those close to the victim away from the victim to keep them isolated and helpless and dependant upon the abuser. So what I was hearing was the beginning stages of the control within abuse. Since it is not obvious, I prefer to err on the side of caution by listening to the emotion of the victim and his or her own sense of what is happening rather than arguing what constitutes "enough proof" of abuse. When I was being abused, nobody would hear me. Victims need to be heard in order to gain strength.

I did read further afterward and saw that. And I would agree.

I do stand by my original statement in that there hadn't yet been enough evidence given to draw the conclusion of control and abuse..

I am sorry that you've been through abuse yourself.

So, there wasn't abuse or control prior to the physical stuff, so it was "wrong" of me to warn of such, but later when the physical stuff arises then the warnings should be given?

I am really trying to understand this - because by my way of thinking by that time, it can be too late at times. Sometimes physical abuse never occurs. In my case, it did not but what did occur caused me to become unable to speak or control my movements for a few hours and after that I deteriorated psychologically into the mentality of a suicidal child with one small part that still wanted to save myself ... while he continued to laugh at me and tell me what a good actress I was.

Thank you for the words about my abuse. I survived it and grew stronger from it so it's okay. That does not mean I want to see others go through it. That's why I do what others did not for me, I listen to and validate those who say they feel controlled or abused. Can someone please explain to me why it is more important that the victim prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they are in fact being controlled or abused and that they did nothing to "deserve this" (which they often think they do anyway so proving that is next to impossible) in order to then "deserve" to be believed and helped, and why it usually has to be in crisis stage to get help? Please understand I am not getting upset at you these are sincere questions brought on by watching and experiencing a wide variety of people.

Good questions and I do hear what you are saying, one survivor to another.

Considering how the court system is set up, I believe that it's really valid to get the victim to truly believe it for what it is-abuse and convince a court and society that these are not "manufactured" claims. I lived through 3 various attempts to get a restraining order beyond the emergency status. The 3rd stuck, he was also facing criminal charges by the district attorney's office at that time.

I think it's fair to ask someone to slow down on being quick to label, after all, recovering from domestic violence is as much about looking at yourself, how do you get here and how to stay out of these scenarios in the future as pointing fingers, not that victims should not be given ample support and validation as well as encouragement to call a hotline and establish a safety plan.

I do agree with what you are saying about the victim needing to figure out how he or she ended up in the situation - but I also think it's harder for the victim to do that when he or she ends up needing to defend herself or himself not only against the abuser but against society at large. It makes a person need to be "steel" in order to survive long enough to get out - and once out - learning to be "flexible" and consider that not only do you now have freedom n may make mistakes - but that you somehow contributed to landing yourself in the situation you barely scraped out of, is enough to almost drive you mad.

If there was more acceptance in the forefront, healing may be easier and more complete later.

Wouldn't you think?

I haven't commented because I kinda felt the important points had been covered but I also think something obvious is being missed here.

The guy is a drug addict, and as such his behaviour is always going to be selfish and single minded and unpredictable and probably illogical.

For the record I am a long-term functioning addict (24 years)

It is in our nature to be secretive and deceptive because we have to be to get away with what are doing. Even if it's just lying to get a job. Or lying to keep a partner, we all do it and it's easy for that to spill over into our everyday lives.

It doesn't surprise me at all that he is incredibly secretive yet jealous at the same time. You get like that when your constantly hiding something, you expect others to be doing the same.

And anyone who claims cannabis isn't harmful needs to spend sometime in the local psyche wards. The strength has quadrupled in the last10 years and certainly in the UK is the cause of a large number of psychotic breaks in teenagers.
Also start mixing it with alcohol and you have a whole different issue.
The OP made some mention of his behavior when he was waiting for his gear and that straight away sent alarm bells going.
He already seems to have some unpleasant character flaws and I can almost guarantee he doesn't think he has a problem. But there is a particular type of self righteousness with these type of people when they don't actually believe what they are doing is wrong or has any effect on others.

Anyway just my 2cents.

Hope the OP has the strength to walk away, because the only things I suspect he really cares about, are his habit, and his ego.

I hear what you are saying.

One thing that comes to mind, the statistics of it taking up to 8 attempts to leave an abuser.

Is it really because society expects one to be made of steel? Or does it have much to do with codependency?

It's not usual that all was lovey dovey and a bed of roses from the first moment. I've encountered more survivors that more oft than not will say, the signs were there from day 1. But were overlooked because of whatever reason.

I agree about the signs n etc (early on but not straight away) n I also agree about codependency. I don't think society expects us you be made of steel, I think society enforces the idea within us we become made of steel if we wish to survive. I also think by doing so, society plays a role in perpetuating the continuance of the codependency. No, I am not saying victims do not have any control of their situation. I am saying for a victim, finding that sense of control is next to impossible and if you only have people telling you what you are saying is wrong, then finding that sense of control n thereby perhaps finding a way to negate the codependency, becomes harder still. Encouragement and empowerment and validation are the things victims need. Most of the time though, what I see them getting is criticism, invalidation, and condemnation.

I can also tell you, some of the reason for those statistics is bc the system failed. Those are "hidden stats" though. Meaning they are just tucked away amongst the number of "unsuccessful escapes" because no reason is needed for the number. I can tell you this because the system failed me in this manner and some of the other girls I was in the abuse shelter as well. There are a lot of laws to protect abusers. Most people think "if a woman cries abuse, it's all over". The truth is if a woman cries abuse she is in danger until the moment the abuser is locked up (if ever) because though restraining orders are nice - they are words on paper that mean nothing more than words from the victim's mouth to the abuser. So, as it is, the victim is abused by the abuser, again by society, and then a third time by the legal system. But somewhere, somehow, amongst trying to be strong through all of this, the victim is also supposed to heal her psyche enough to insure this does not happen again - so she is not somehow "asking for it", " searching for it", or in some other way "wanting it".

This is how I see society playing a role in suppressing the healing of abuse victims - and even halting being able to save some of the victim's.

I am blessed to have this man in my life, because I'm a very imperfect human being who has faults exactly like he does. Thank you all.

P.S. someone suggested that a mans controlling behaviour is actually a sign that he loves me, is this a possibility? opinions are welcome, but I appreciate this forum. Sometimes things get side tracked.

No - not a sign of love. Wanting to control someone is never motivated by love.

Having a man seek to control her can be interpreted as a good thing by a woman who is very damaged. Such a woman can think this indicates that a man highly values her. It can seem better to have a man wanting to respond to her every move, rather than to be ignored. If a person is starved for attention of a healthy kind, a person can come to welcome unhealthy forms of attention. It's long been recognized that children who don't get positive attention will often be inclined to behave in any way that gets them noticed. That's kind of different, but related. I don't think abused women try to get themselves abused. I do think that some abused women are extremely lonely and put up with bad treatment out of fear of being alone.

Loneliness is one of the most unendurable things for human beings. That's why prisons invented solitary confinement. It was found to be more effective than flogging, as a way of compelling compliance.

It's all well and good to tell an abused woman "You deserve better than him." But "better" isn't always readily available. If the choice is between tolerating mistreatment and being isolated and alone, human beings will often tolerate mistreatment. That is a fact of life.

The World of Suzy Wong was a 50's movie about an American man in Asia who becomes involved with a prostitute. She tries to impress her girlfriends by telling them, falsely, how much he beats her. They tell her that he must really think a lot of her to go to the trouble of roughing her up. This particular scene is presented in a comedic way that would be unacceptable today. The public's view of spousal abuse has evolved since the 50's. However, the scene resonated effectively with audiences who were able to believe that, for some women, having a man be posessive of them, even to the point of violence, seemed like a step up from their previous experience.

Okay, I'm content with my choices. My 16 soon to be 17 year old son, needs his mother more than I need a lover. I'll see him less often. My family is always my top priority. Leaving my son on his own for a few days at a time this past month has caused him to grow up and show some respect. I've never neglected my children. He has learned to cook, is learning that money doesn't grow on trees, and, hopefully, will respect me more as I show him what the real love of life is. I love my kids more than anyone in the world. So proud of them, and yes, happy my 25 year old is working, loving, and compassionate man. Now, I'll use what's left of my time to help my younger boy.

ROse, you are my friend, for 3 years, and you know me best. I appreciate your own life experiences that you've shared with me. Sometimes, I believe, the only way to know a friend is to share in some of the worst of us.

Thanks again to all of you here. This forum is the only place I've gained true insight.

Respectfully, it feels troubling/concerning (to me) to read this after you divulged this person had gotten physical with you (on more than one occasion?)... What I don't quite understand about your sentence above is how your having faults/imperfections and how him having faults/imperfections equates to you being 'blessed' to have him in your life? Don't we all have faults & imperfections - so couldn't that be said about anyone/everyone?

One question that came to mind is how might you react if one of your sons had a girlfriend and you discovered that he had gotten physical with her in a similar manner that this man had done to you? Would you ignore it? Make excuses for that behavior? Would you be troubled by it?

Thanks for letting me comment in your thread...

Leaving a 16 year old "on his own for a few days at a time" is potentially illegal. See these sources:

At What Age Can My Child Be Left Home Alone? - Calgary's Child Magazine

When Can You Leave a Child Home Alone? - FindLaw

I believe most responsible parents would consider it highly inappropriate, to say the least. Doing so has been known to lead to tragedy. Here is a link with guidelines. (below) What is appropriate depends on the child's maturity. To say, "My kid is a problem, so I'm leaving him alone to let him grow up," is a line of reasoning that would probably strike most family court judges as deplorable. It strikes me, in this case, as highly self-serving, especially when the mother wants to go on a date lasting several days. A man who gets a woman's company on this basis has zero reason to see such a woman as worthy of respect.

Guidelines for Leaving Kids Home Alone with Printable

The child's father would have every right (even a duty) to report this to family court.

How does leaving a child alone teach him that money doesn't grow on trees? Threatening to abandon a child for bad behavior is child abuse. Disparaissant, you are profoundly confused about your rights and duties. You should ask family court to provide you with counseling. If I were your next-door neighbor, I would report you to Child Protection Services.

Every parent says their children are their priority. That's just talking the talk. You have to walk your talk.

You just don't leave a 16 year old boy with a history of behavior problems home alone for days. You just don't do that. You just don't.

disparaissant,
I have become increasingly aware throughout this thread, you are not ready to look at this man's behavior for what it was (maybe still is bc I am not entirely sure you put him out of your life given your statement of how lucky you are...) Unfortunately, until you are ready to look at it, you are going to notice more and more changes in you that you won't like about yourself, and others that others will dislike about you. Even if you do let him go, until you see the behavior for what it was and then look at yourself and figure out how to strengthen those parts of you that are "needy" and reaching out toward dangerous people, you will find this is a continuous thing in your life. You won't consciously look for it, it will just "seem to find you".

Honestly, it isn't a lonliness factor that keeps people in abuse. It is a deep-rooted fear. That fear doesn't only extend to self - but to pets, children, even the abuser sometimes (the abuser may threaten suicide if victim leaves). But, you still have to make the call, when is enough really enough?

He already started being physical with you. Yet you still say you are blessed to have him in your life. Is he still in your life now? If so, you need to set a definitive "line" in your head that he cannot cross or you definitely leave. I have difficulty believing you would have believed it ok to leave 16yr old unruly boy alone for days at a time under normal circumstances. Did you do that with your older son? These are the types of changes (if indeed it is a change, since I admittedly do not know you well but am giving you benefit of a doubt) I was talking about earlier. Please consider things carefully.

Love is not abuse.

sometimes we have to look at our own behaviour, and I am, thanks everyone but I will end this thread if it continues. I can't handle any more "advice", BUT i appreciate the input from everyone else's perspective. No one really knows me here. Thank you.

What parts of your behavior are you looking at?

You say we don't know you, that's true. You started this thread telling us about him. So, if you want us to know you - tell us about you?

What is it that you have done or do you still do you think is deserving of this treatment?

What are your ideals?

What are your goals in life for you?

What do you want for your children?

What dreams do you have?

Are there any other issues you want to discuss?

These are questions that allow us to know a bit about you as a person. You can choose to answer or not, either is acceptable. For now though, all I know is him and how he is treating you and since you asked about that in particular, I have been commenting on that.

It would also be fair to say you do not know me, other than I have been abused at some point. So, I will answer those same questions for you.

What are my ideals?
I value honesty, compassion, sincerity, and friendship and love. I do not believe in taking things for granted nor in bending over backwards for anyone. I will help anyone but I will no longer allow myself to be taken advantage of as I once did.

What are my goals in life for me?
I just want to be the happiest I can and help those I can.

What do I want for my children?
I only ever had one child - a son, which I had to give up for adoption, but I do hope he has had a wonderful life thus far and will continue in life to receive love and happiness.

What dreams do I have?
To one day be blessed enough to meet my son.

Are there any issues I wish to discuss?
Not on this thread, because it is yours - but I have my share of problems as well. I have dealt with depression since I was 12 and mom died (i blamed myself), i have dealt with PTSD for varying reasons (not just relationship abuse altho that is one reason), i deal with general anxiety, and i also deal with borderline personality disorder. You are welcome to visit my profile and look at any or all of the threads I have started if you wish to know more about me. You can also pm me.

I only told you these things so you will know a bit about the person who has been speaking to you. So you will know I am not speaking to you from a place of insincerity or of "i know you better than you know you" but from a place of compassion and love. It may have come across wrong at times. I don't always choose my words well. I was once in a coma and one of the longterm effects I have had from that has been that sometimes I am unable to "place" the word I want to say so instead I describe it as best I can. I apologize for coming across craas or harsh at times. I am concerned for you. Even though I do not know you, I care.

Take it or leave it - believe it or not, that's the truth of it.

❤