[graystreet]

This is what I dreaded when the breakup happened two weeks ago.

I thought I was surprisingly, suspiciously okay. But now, I'm not okay at all. I don't know if it has to do with that alone, or if it's just a combination of things. All I know is that I cannot stop ruminating on how bad a person I was to him, how he has a gazillion friends and I don't. How I have been such a bad person in the past that I've pushed even my family away. How people hate me. How I must have been so crazy he just couldn't deal with me anymore. I don't care if he was a bad person...I'm probably worse, and I deserved it.

I am starting to have panic attacks when I think of going back to work after my foot heals. I only have 4-6 weeks left. I was just reading work emails and it's like...I don't know how I'm going to do this. My job is stressful. I look at the "shout outs" from my boss because one nurse made a great call and got a patient to the ICU, and one nurse did this and that and I'm like, I can't do this. I can't function like this. I can barely take care of myself, how am I going to take care of patients? I can't. But I can't go inpatient; I don't feel like it helps me (I've done it several times). And how am I going to tell work that I can't come back because I've had a nervous breakdown? I'm massively, massively in debt. I can't pay my bills on short term disability as it is. What am I going to do if I can't work?

I am going to be 40 years old in exactly 3 weeks. Nothing I saw for myself 20 years ago has happened. I'm so alone, my life is falling apart, and I am drowning. I don't even have plans to celebrate on my birthday. I've mentioned it to my friends, and no one has said anything (no, they aren't planning a party...promise). I don't think I can bear sitting home alone on my 40th like I did on my 30th. I swore then that, by now, I would not be in the same place. And it's like nothing has changed.

What makes me sad is that, when I still thought J cared about and wanted me, I felt like a normal woman. Like, I had career and relationship goals. He reached out to me and made me feel wanted. Now, I might as well be invisible.

I honestly, honestly don't want to be here anymore. And it isn't all because of him. I'm just losing the battle against completely breaking down.

[healingme4me]

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by healingme4me

Thank you for replying. I'm really spiraling right now. I can tell my offline friends don't know what to say, and when I don't get replies here either it makes me feel like a total lost cause. I know I am, but, in spite of how it may sound, I'm really trying to find a way to look toward the future, and tell myself it won't always feel like this. It's just that it always comes back to this.

Thank you.

[blubbbrabbel]

Dear greystreet,
I am really sorry you feel that way. A Breakup is a horrible thing. Please, please don't put yourself down like this! Something very painful just happened to you. You don't have to make yourself feel as if you deserve to feel bad! That is actually what you are writing.
But it is not true! Why would you deserve to suffer and be miserable?
You mentioned that you did wrong in the past. I think the point here is that you see your faults and that suggests that you have changed. And after all. We all do mistakes.
And I am sure not everyone hates you. I definitely don't!
I know there is always a special pressure on round birthdays. Don't put it on yourself. If you feel like it invite a few close people.
I really wish I could write something that could offer more comfort. I send a big hug to you!

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by blubbbrabbel

Dear greystreet,
I am really sorry you feel that way. A Breakup is a horrible thing. Please, please don't put yourself down like this! Something very painful just happened to you. You don't have to make yourself feel as if you deserve to feel bad! That is actually what you are writing.
But it is not true! Why would you deserve to suffer and be miserable?
You mentioned that you did wrong in the past. I think the point here is that you see your faults and that suggests that you have changed. And after all. We all do mistakes.
And I am sure not everyone hates you. I definitely don't!
I know there is always a special pressure on round birthdays. Don't put it on yourself. If you feel like it invite a few close people.
I really wish I could write something that could offer more comfort. I send a big hug to you!

Thank you.

This has been kind of ongoing, I've been posting about this for the last two weeks. Don't think I can actually call it a relationship, since he fed me just as many breadcrumbs as he needed to in order to keep me coming after him, without actually making any sort of promises, commitments, or chasing me himself. He literally never fought for me. Ever. And I'm so stupid I didn't see this as incentive to leave. Even if he's a bad guy, he was right the last night he talked to me: "You're stupid. And there is no excuse for stupid."

https://forums.psychcentral.com/rela...tance-lie.html

https://forums.psychcentral.com/rela...al-action.html

[divine1966]

Hang in there. I promise it will get better. Focus on your recovery. re broken foot. Hugs

[Iceskater]

Originally Posted by graystreet

he fed me just as many breadcrumbs as he needed to in order to keep me coming after him, without actually making any sort of promises, commitments, or chasing me himself. He literally never fought for me.

He might not have literally ever fought for you but he seems to have been very interested in you:

Originally Posted by graystreet

We had been friends for 13 years, meeting online through a photography website. He had flirted over the years, but one of us always had a significant other, not to mention I'm in Michigan, he's in Tennessee. In 2016, we talked more earnestly about trying to make something happen. For a few reasons, it didn't, and it ended in us not talking for a while. Cut to this past November, and we started what I thought was online dating in earnest. He came to see me while on a business trip, immediately made plans for him to take time off for me to see him, a trip which I just came back from this past Tuesday. We explosively ended it during that time...........a week prior to coming to TN, and he begged me to come...................there are a few things I said to him which brought him to the brink of tears

Originally Posted by graystreet

We'd had a specific fight, about a week and a half prior to my coming down, during which he made the statement, "I'm your last resort, but you sure as hell aren't mine." That's nasty in its own right, but given my fears about other women, it was specifically nasty. And also not true--there are other people here.

Originally Posted by graystreet

I cannot stop ruminating on how bad a person I was to him, how he has a gazillion friends and I don't. How I have been such a bad person in the past that I've pushed even my family away. How people hate me. I'm so alone, my life is falling apart, ......

What makes me sad is that, when I still thought J cared about and wanted me, I felt like a normal woman. Like, I had career and relationship goals. He reached out to me and made me feel wanted.

Perhaps you guys are a match made in heaven if you can work it all out?

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Iceskater

He might not have literally ever fought for you but he seems to have been very interested in you:





Perhaps you guys are a match made in heaven if you can work it all out?

It’s over and they aren’t working it out. Match made in heaven? He was sleeping with other women and not telling her about it (unprotected sex). He treated her horribly all along and the end threatened to take legal actions against her. Why would they work out and what kind of good match is that?

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by Iceskater

He might not have literally ever fought for you but he seems to have been very interested in you:





Perhaps you guys are a match made in heaven if you can work it all out?

Sorry, but I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. This guy was an abusive piece of ****. And he didn’t fight for me because I was nothing but an obgect to him, another source for his narcissistic ego feeding. Why would I want to work it out? I’m just desperately trying to piece my mind back together. He’s already on to the next.

[Iceskater]

Originally Posted by graystreet

Sorry, but I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. This guy was an abusive piece of ****. And he didn’t fight for me because I was nothing but an obgect to him, another source for his narcissistic ego feeding. Why would I want to work it out? I’m just desperately trying to piece my mind back together. He’s already on to the next.

Yesterday you were totally blaming yourself

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by Iceskater

Yesterday you were totally blaming yourself

Iceskater, you haven't followed the previous posts to know the story. If you'd like to know more, I'd suggest looking them up.

Trust me when I say that we are not getting back together. To suggest this, while possibly well-intentioned is not helpful.

I'm totally blaming myself because that is part of the complete mind-screw that this kind of abuser wants to put on you. And yes, I still believe I had something to do with it. RATIONALLY, however, in that part of me which isn't winning the battle here, I know this guy preys on women. And he's doing it right now with the woman he was ****ing the whole time he was telling me things were monogamous.

And now he tells her I was just some obsessed crazy chick he has to try and rebuild his life from. After thirteen years of friendship, this is all I am. Oh, and I was a human blow up doll. That's pretty much the extent of what I was to him.

So no, he wasn't interested in ME. He was interested in the conquest, of having another pretty redhead in his bed. Of feeling dominant and powerful. And, with me, unfortunately, he succeeded,

[Iceskater]

Originally Posted by graystreet

Iceskater, you haven't followed the previous posts to know the story. If you'd like to know more, I'd suggest looking them up.

Trust me when I say that we are not getting back together. To suggest this, while possibly well-intentioned is not helpful.

I'm totally blaming myself because that is part of the complete mind-screw that this kind of abuser wants to put on you. And yes, I still believe I had something to do with it. RATIONALLY, however, in that part of me which isn't winning the battle here, I know this guy preys on women. And he's doing it right now with the woman he was ****ing the whole time he was telling me things were monogamous.

And now he tells her I was just some obsessed crazy chick he has to try and rebuild his life from. After thirteen years of friendship, this is all I am. Oh, and I was a human blow up doll. That's pretty much the extent of what I was to him.

So no, he wasn't interested in ME. He was interested in the conquest, of having another pretty redhead in his bed. Of feeling dominant and powerful. And, with me, unfortunately, he succeeded,

As a man I think i am seeing this differently to how a woman can see it. The guy seems to have made some kind of an effort for you. he even begged with you and he was so upset he was even almost in tears with you.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Iceskater

As a man I think i am seeing this differently to how a woman can see it. The guy seems to have made some kind of an effort for you. he even begged with you and he was so upset he was even almost in tears with you.

I am not sure understanding what happened is determined by a gender of reader? How so? Because you are a man you don’t see how badly this man behaved?

What kind of effort? She drove 10 hours to see him. He put her out because of the fight they had. I personally wouldn’t put a visitor to be stranded in
a strange city alone without transportation and then don’t let them in the house at night letting sleep in a car, even if I had a fight.

Sure he saw her earlier this year but it’s because he was there on business trip, he didn’t drive 10 hours to just see her. He made no effort.

Sure he had tears about something. That doesn’t prove anything, could be number of reasons like hurt ego or who knows.

And he swore he does not sleep with other women but then turned out he sleeps with other women and has unprotected sex. How is that making an effort?

He did beg her for something: particularly sex and hugs after insulting her, why is that considered making an effort? It’s insulting to beg for sex and hugs after mistreating people

I told my husband about this story while greystreet originally shared it and he was mortified what kind of person behaves this way. And he is a man.

I am confused why are you referring to his behavior as making an effort?

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by Iceskater

As a man I think i am seeing this differently to how a woman can see it. The guy seems to have made some kind of an effort for you. he even begged with you and he was so upset he was even almost in tears with you.

I think I need to ask you to please bow out of this conversation. I don't mean to be rude, but you aren't grasping that this man is a covert narcissist and extremely dangerous and abusive.

I'm doing pretty well today. I'd like to stay well. I don't need doubt entering in again, bringing me back to the place where I'm questioning everything. He did that. He made me doubt everything about myself, my judgment, even my sanity. I was incredibly suicidal at least three times in this relationship, and twice in the week I was with him in Knoxville alone. And he just laughed.

Two weeks after all of this happened, he flirting heavily with the woman he cheated on me with. Exactly like he does with all women. It's like I didn't exist--thirteen years, and I am a vapor. He got what he needed from me, and I'm on the trash heap, just like the rest of the women he "dated" and no longer speaks to. That cut me deeply, but I have to remember that eventually, this woman will figure it out, too. He goes for the weakest of the herd, and she's perfect: not that smart, a little timid, overweight, brand new to the area, seems to be insecure, not many male friends. Perfect. It's like taking candy from a baby. Just like with me, only I basically served myself up to him on a silver platter.

So please, do not try and convince me how this man "cared about" me. Thank you.

[s4ndm4n2006]

Originally Posted by Iceskater

Yesterday you were totally blaming yourself

seriously do you not get it? she blames herself because that's what a lot of people that end up in abusive relationships do. They vacillate between being angry at the abusive person and blaming themselves. are you actually here to support anyone or are you here to make them feel worse?

[graystreet]

The one thing that I have to grasp onto, when the thoughts of "but I was mean to him," and "but we were horrible to each other and he said I was crazy," is the night the left me in Knoxville, and told me for four hours to prostitute myself to find Uber fare to get back to Maryville. Even after that, I was still trying to say hey, we obviously don't want to speak to each other again but can we just stop this and at least, because we had a friendship before this, try and end this on a civil note? He would have none of it. I was speaking to my friends that night, they were trying to get through to him. And he was nasty to them. They were like, this man is unstable. You need to stop trying. And even after I slept in my car, because after telling me I could stay on his couch before a 10 hour drive home, he ignored me calling and knocking on his door, I still tried to end things in a civil manner. That morning, I invited him for coffee. I said, I understand this is the end. But I don't think it has to end on such a hateful note. He said, "And what good will seeing you do? Go home."

I tried, after every crazy thing he did to end it in a civil manner. And he remained vitriolic. Because, to him, I was done. In fact, those are the words he kept using: "You're done." Not "We're done," or "I'm done." To him, I was used goods, and he had another supply. So, when I think about things being my fault or that I pushed him away, I will try and remember that Sunday night and how I tried to be the sane one in the situation.

Narcissistic rage is real. And it's scary as hell.

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

seriously do you not get it? she blames herself because that's what a lot of people that end up in abusive relationships do. They vacillate between being angry at the abusive person and blaming themselves. are you actually here to support anyone or are you here to make them feel worse?

Thank you thank you THANK YOU

[s4ndm4n2006]

Originally Posted by graystreet

I think I need to ask you to please bow out of this conversation. I don't mean to be rude, but you aren't grasping that this man is a covert narcissist and extremely dangerous and abusive.

I'm doing pretty well today. I'd like to stay well. I don't need doubt entering in again, bringing me back to the place where I'm questioning everything. He did that. He made me doubt everything about myself, my judgment, even my sanity. I was incredibly suicidal at least three times in this relationship, and twice in the week I was with him in Knoxville alone. And he just laughed.

Two weeks after all of this happened, he flirting heavily with the woman he cheated on me with. Exactly like he does with all women. It's like I didn't exist--thirteen years, and I am a vapor. He got what he needed from me, and I'm on the trash heap, just like the rest of the women he "dated" and no longer speaks to. That cut me deeply, but I have to remember that eventually, this woman will figure it out, too. He goes for the weakest of the herd, and she's perfect: not that smart, a little timid, overweight, brand new to the area, seems to be insecure, not many male friends. Perfect. It's like taking candy from a baby. Just like with me, only I basically served myself up to him on a silver platter.

So please, do not try and convince me how this man "cared about" me. Thank you.

agreed. I would skim past their comments if you can in the future as it sounds like it's all in defense of a man that sounds like he was horrible to you.

I know personally all too well how it feels to go between feeling angry at what happened to you but then switching to questioning yourself and what you did wrong simply because it's the dialogue that's been fed to you by that person for so long.

I can't offer any suggestions but just understand I know what it's like

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by Iceskater

As a man I think i am seeing this differently to how a woman can see it. The guy seems to have made some kind of an effort for you. he even begged with you and he was so upset he was even almost in tears with you.

BELIEVE ME this man never fought for me. Ever. We had so many fights where I'd say, "I can't do this anymore," and he'd just let me walk away. Because he knew that, as someone with BPD, he had me. All he had to do was ignore me and wait for me to feel abandoned, and beg for him to pay attention again. Never once did he fight for me. Because this was the crux of plenty of arguments. I'd ask him, "You say you want this, but you never fight for it. I need someone who wants to fight for this the way that I am. Why don't you?" And there was never a straight answer. Or it was turned around onto me, to how everything was my fault, to how I was so crazy, and he basically had to put up with me, and seriously, wasn't that fight enough?

I was so easy to take advantage of. It was probably a vacation from his normal predatory ways...all he had to do was sit back, drop a few bread crumbs here and there, and let me spin my own story about a relationship that didn't even exist.

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

agreed. I would skim past their comments if you can in the future as it sounds like it's all in defense of a man that sounds like he was horrible to you.

I know personally all too well how it feels to go between feeling angry at what happened to you but then switching to questioning yourself and what you did wrong simply because it's the dialogue that's been fed to you by that person for so long.

I can't offer any suggestions but just understand I know what it's like

Thank you. I probably shared in some of the horribleness. But that is what my T is trying to get me to lean into, and what my poor friends (because they are probably sick of listening to me) are trying to drill into my head: regardless of the things I may have said and done, this was a bad, bad person who should have chosen to walk away from the relationship rather than engage in the behaviors he chose to engage in if he didn't like how I was treating him. He knew that I have BPD, and he most definitely exploited it. Sometimes, I don't know who was reacting to whom, but I can say that he said it was all me. Rationally, I know where my behavior ended and his began, most of the time. He has an ex-wife he says emotionally abused him (but that was over 13 years ago) and he always said "You remind me of her and I'm just trying to protect myself." I always told him, if I remind you so much of K, maybe you shouldn't be with me. I told him that most of the time, his "protective" behavior went far beyond protection and into abuse, to where I was telling him, "You're hurting me, please stop," and he would just continue and continue. I told him I simply do not have the emotional energy to fight against you when you are in "protective" mode. So if you need to do that with me, you need to leave. He said he understood, said he felt badly, and said he'd stop. I think I rationalized it as something he was working on?

But...his marriage was over thirteen years ago. I don't doubt that there was something rough there. But every woman has scorned him, if you listen to him. By the time I went to Knoxville, I was so sick of his passing the blame, whining about stress and being put upon, and treatment of me that the feelings were leaving anyway. What hurts now is just the betrayal. I do think there was something in me which understood what was happening; I don't think I'm as "sick" as he tried to make me believe; I think there was a rational part of me trying to fight. I wish she had just decided to leave his *** long ago.

Anyway. I'm doing well today. Trying not to go down "blame myself" highway.

[s4ndm4n2006]

I don't like the "protective" term as it seems to be a false front. Seems more likely to me that it was "control" mode more than anything which is pretty much what I've dealt with (still deal with though not getting into it here) Another similarity in what you describe that I've experienced is the blame game. And I do not mean just the "it's your fault" thing although that's a big part of it, but there's a pattern here. That all the others these people have been with have been at fault seems kind of skewed, doesn't it? makes you wonder or at least should.

In any bad outcome to a relationship we are all at fault to some degree so to some degree, I'm sure you did some things wrong but it rarely if ever is entirely on one person.. maybe more on one side than the other so.. when someone tells you it's all your fault keep that in mind.

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

I don't like the "protective" term as it seems to be a false front. Seems more likely to me that it was "control" mode more than anything which is pretty much what I've dealt with (still deal with though not getting into it here) Another similarity in what you describe that I've experienced is the blame game. And I do not mean just the "it's your fault" thing although that's a big part of it, but there's a pattern here. That all the others these people have been with have been at fault seems kind of skewed, doesn't it? makes you wonder or at least should.

In any bad outcome to a relationship we are all at fault to some degree so to some degree, I'm sure you did some things wrong but it rarely if ever is entirely on one person.. maybe more on one side than the other so.. when someone tells you it's all your fault keep that in mind.

Oh it was absolutely control. And the thing is that I knew it going in, I just didn't name it as control. I called it stubbornness, and knew he had some issues with stonewalling and withdrawing, but I rationalized it as his issues with opening up due to past hurts. Just how I tend to try and reach out more because I've been hurt (the please love me! tactic), he becomes even more emotionally unavailable. In the beginning we talked about it, he was committed to working on it, and was actually pretty good about it. But then he raised up the control in other ways. And gaslighting...whoooo boy, is he skilled at that.

Whomever it was that said, "When a person tells you who they are, believe them," is so right. The thing is that you need to be listening. And, when we really like a person, we aren't fully listening. If he is any indicator, narcs aren't devious about who they are at all. Way back in 2012 when he and I talked a little over social media (when he was trying to flirt and was extremely pushy and I told him, in no uncertain terms, to back off) he told me that he'd had some issues with some casual relationships in the previous years: "I was almost like a predator." I only remembered that conversation in the last few weeks. When I told him, wayyy back upon first meeting him that I tend to be shy at first: "Oh, I'll draw you in." Wouldn't a more appropriate response be, something like take your time, I don't want you to be uncomfortable?

Anyway. It never occurred to me how little effort he made for me until someone mentioned how I drove to see him, yet he only came to see me on a business trip. Christmas: no card (he says he doesn't even send them to family). I broke my foot: no card, nothing (I got cards and gifts from friends I haven't seen in 20 years). And maybe that can be chalked up to a guy thing. But I mentioned early on that I kind of like that stuff. And I found out, a few days before I went to see him, he didn't even have my address. So he couldn't send anything anyway. (I sent him a nice little gift the day I found out he got a promotion at work. Not that it's tit-for-tat...but I'm just saying).

Dude, I gave you my address months ago. How are you going to be in an LDR with someone and not know their address?? "Well, you texted it to me and then we had a fight and you text bombed me. Of course I lost it." My fault again. You couldn't ask me for it? So many ways in which I was just stupid, stupid, stupid. I liked him for a long time and wanted him to be the person I'd always thought he was. And he was really good at making me believe I was crazy by the end of it.

Now I just need to focus on building up my self esteem again.

[s4ndm4n2006]

work on you. enjoy your time alone even if that seems impossible. being detatched has it's benefits and independence is great also. and also a good thing. when we find our own voice, our own independence finding a mate that fits that new person will be more likely to be the right one. but anyway..

also I've actually told someone these things recently after having let myself get caught up in some romantic online thing and becoming a bit infatuated with her. My friend was trying to give me advice and I agreed as this was after the fact but I told her "when you let the emotional side of things direct you, you don't want to see or hear about the questions you already have about them, you're heart says I don't care, I want her/him" you throw out things that should be flags. I know all too well how that happens so I won't judge, we all do that.

I've been in situations for months where I'd been lied to in grandiose ways.. and let it happen even as the inner voice was trying to warn me.

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

work on you. enjoy your time alone even if that seems impossible. being detatched has it's benefits and independence is great also. and also a good thing. when we find our own voice, our own independence finding a mate that fits that new person will be more likely to be the right one. but anyway..

also I've actually told someone these things recently after having let myself get caught up in some romantic online thing and becoming a bit infatuated with her. My friend was trying to give me advice and I agreed as this was after the fact but I told her "when you let the emotional side of things direct you, you don't want to see or hear about the questions you already have about them, you're heart says I don't care, I want her/him" you throw out things that should be flags. I know all too well how that happens so I won't judge, we all do that.

I've been in situations for months where I'd been lied to in grandiose ways.. and let it happen even as the inner voice was trying to warn me.

Thanks for all of this. I really did let him lie to me even though my intuition was screaming at me. For a very long time. I'm glad I had the courage (the insanity? HA) to message the woman. Wasn't even the woman I'd initially suspected. His patterns are just so stinking predictable that I was like, look. I'm never going to be in that area, if she thinks I'm crazy, I don't care. She doesn't have to message me back. And if she does, then I can finally put to bed this nagging feeling I've had for a very, very long time that he's been systematically lying to me. Didn't take much. No stalking involved like he loves to imply.

It sort of annoys me that she didn't seem to care about what I had to say, and is still into him anyway. But then again, that's his favorite target. Willfully ignorant. Just glad I didn't end up taking that assignment down there like I'd been planning to.

Incidentally, I broke my foot the night I put wheels into motion to do so. Had to pass the job onto someone else, since I can't work for over two months. Coincidence? Maybe.

[s4ndm4n2006]

Originally Posted by graystreet

Thanks for all of this. I really did let him lie to me even though my intuition was screaming at me. For a very long time. I'm glad I had the courage (the insanity? HA) to message the woman. Wasn't even the woman I'd initially suspected. His patterns are just so stinking predictable that I was like, look. I'm never going to be in that area, if she thinks I'm crazy, I don't care. She doesn't have to message me back. And if she does, then I can finally put to bed this nagging feeling I've had for a very, very long time that he's been systematically lying to me. Didn't take much. No stalking involved like he loves to imply.

It sort of annoys me that she didn't seem to care about what I had to say, and is still into him anyway. But then again, that's his favorite target. Willfully ignorant. Just glad I didn't end up taking that assignment down there like I'd been planning to.

Incidentally, I broke my foot the night I put wheels into motion to do so. Had to pass the job onto someone else, since I can't work for over two months. Coincidence? Maybe.

yw. now you just gotta sort this out in your head and heart and takes steps forward it can be done. been there.