What do I do when boyfriend and I can't agree on having kids.

I could see that but he is willing to compromise in other ways- for example where we settle down is going to be a place I chose.

I don’t think that bringing another human life in the world is something you should compromise on. I would hate to have my kids dad not want them. I decided long ago that being with him means never having children and accepting that because you shouldn’t have to convince someone of something like that. I don’t think it means he loves me any less or more. It just means that it’s up to me to decide if I can accept not having kids or not.

I disagree with the priority part. Bringing another human life in the world to please someone else is the wrong reason to do it and frankly cruel in my opinion. I don’t want my kids to have a father that never wanted them just so I could fulfill my own desire to have them. He can’t help that he doesn’t want kids just like I can’t help that I do. It doesn’t say anything about either of our love for each other.

At the end of the day it’s up to me to decide which I want more. It sounds like you and others believe not having them is something I would regret. I could also see that. I could also see myself regretting loosing him. Honestly I lose either way.

I absolutely agree. It is not wrong or a testament to his love for me that he wants something different from me. It’s just the way it is. Bringing a kid in the world just to make me happy is so wrong. I know that being with him means not having kids. I was hoping to open this blog up so I can talk out my reasons for wanting kids, and if it is something I am willing to give up because honestly I think I can be happy without them but I worry about the void it would bring.

There will be a void. Always will be "what ifs" too.

Won’t I feel that if we break up too? Knowing myself I absolulty would.

I have no kids due to my choice. My long-term boyfriend has kids from his previous marriage. He actually encouraged me to have a child, but I declined for a bunch of my own reasons. Now, many years later, I'm not sorry, but I wouldn't recommend this way of life to any normal person. (I've never considered myself normal.)

If your partner loves you, I think it's very wrong to ask this of you. Sounds like pure selfishness to me. I believe you will regret not having children. Here's my advice: Don't get pregnant, unless you get married first. Don't marry him, unless he agrees that he is open to children. Tell him that, unless this relationship is heading toward marriage, you need to end it. Then, if he is willing to lose you over this, he is not in love with you all that much. No matter how happy you feel you are with him, he will be using you to meet his needs, while leaving your profound and natural need unmet. That - to me - screams "selfish."

I think this is a little game that men who are self-centered like to play. You're not the first person who's told me they were in this scenario. Ask yourself if there aren't other signs that this guy is very into himself. I suspect you are quite the giver, and he is big into being given to. Things he may do for you, I'll bet, are strictly on his terms. Years from now, that's going to get old.

The funny thing is that he, himself, would probably have a fuller, richer life, if he were to become a father. I think he's just too self-absorbed to see that. Guys like that can calculate the cost of things, but not the value.

Throw the ball back into his court. Say: "I plan on trying to have a child. If that's objectionable to you, then move on."

I absolutely don’t think he should compromise. He is staying true to himself.
I am not concerned that he isn’t compromising.

I am concerned that you are trying to convince yourself that you don’t want children so you can keep him, especially since he is considering breaking up. You are changing who you are so you can stop him from breaking up with you. That’s concerning

It is nothing to do with who loves who more. But he chooses his true self (not wanting kids) over you and would rather break up than change that. And it’s nothing wrong with that. He shouldn’t be expected to choose you. Him not wanting to have kids is fundamental belief and he holds it to high regard. You on the other hand are willing to alter your beliefs and give up your dreams so he wouldn’t break up with you.

In a long run that’s wrong way to enter commited relationship. Doesn’t end well

It’s also concerning that in 4 years he never proposed marriage. Perhaps his announcement that he doesn’t want children and suggestion you break up or you’ll resent him, could be a hint to you that there will not be life long commitment. If after 4 years life long commitment is still in “discussion” stages and he isn’t on the same page with you, there is a good chance there will be no “happily ever after”.

If you don’t have therapist, I recommend one ASAP.

The television host, Steve Harvey, gives women some of the best advice around. He says that a guy will know inside of 6 months if you're "the one." So, yeah, he loves being with you, or he would have been long gone by now. I think he is committed to staying with you. But I also think he has figured out how to get most everything important his way. Of course, it's all fair because he tells you to just leave, if you don't like the deal. That's what I would call a "bluff." He figures you won't call his bluff. This way he can gloat that he didn't force you into anything.

I have to agree with divine that there's something wrong with this picture where you will give anything to hold onto this man. Suppose he gets sick or in a car crash and leaves this world when you are 48 years old. Then you are without him and it's too late for you to have a family. That's the fate I designed for myself, and I can't tell you how dismal it seems at times.

I would advise a separation. I think there is a good chance he might find his commitment to childlessness is not so deep as you believe.

Lots and lots of times, individuals are not the best judges of where their long term happiness lies. I honestly didn't think my boyfriend would be a good father to a child of mine. He wasn't managing his obligations to the ones he already had. But ask yourself if your guy really lacks what it takes to parent responsibly. He might be just apprehensive. That's kind of normal in men. You may be helping him lay the foundation for his own future unhappiness.

He is not selfish. He has every right to not want children and he can’t help that he feels that way. Just like I can’t help that I do want kids. It is an incompatibility. It is wrong for him to compromise on bringing another life into this world just to make me happy. The last thing I want is children whose father never wanted them. In fact he has health issues and severe depression and feels that would hinder his ability to be a father so I think for him it makes sense NOt to have kids. Not everyone would be happy with children- that’s okay.

He can be more of a giver than me- he is very considerate, thinks of me, does little things for me, is there for me when I need it, takes care of me when I am sick or injured, cooks me dinner every night (no joke).

He is the one who is saying that I am blinded by love in wanting to stay together despite all of this and believes that he can’t ask me to give this up as it will lead to regret and friction. I am the one trying to convince myself that I don’t need to have kids.

I can see that. I am willing to give it up to be with him and turning to this blog to talk that decision out. My desire to have kids is not 100% but it’s at least mostly there.

He has already proposed to me but I have not said yes as I felt we should discuss this matter first and come to a conclusion. We have talked about marriage countless times and both want to commit to each other but we have this barrier standing in our way.

OP is searching her heart, agonizing, wondering if she can or should give up children to have him. She is looking at everything in her heart.

He, however, as far as we know, seems not to be doing any agonizing.

One way to look at him is to say that he is true to who he is.

Another way to look at him is to say that he doesn't care enough about her to even try.

Someone above suggested a trial separation. That sounds good to me.

I think that OP would do well to leave this guy for (say) six months and then see whether or not she can in fact live without him, and see how interested he is in waiting for her.

During those six months, both of them find could find ways to spend time with children. Her, to fully explore (as best she can) whether she can live without them. Him, to fully explore (as best he can) whether he can live with them.

If you have a child, there's a chance that it could be born with a horrific disability or that it could be murdered. Those are just two examples of many things that could go wrong and I think the fact that things can and do go wrong in life is a good reason not to have a kid. Maybe you haven't considered that, or maybe you and I are just different.

If a man told me I am “blinded by love” wanting to stay with him, I’d be gone tomorrow. He either really wants you to be gone or playing with you knowing you are too in love to leave. I won’t be able to stay with a man under the circumstances.

Those are good points. The only thing I want to point out that I absolutely don’t believe that spending time with other people’s chikdren is the way to determine if you want to have your own. Plenty of people are great parents yet do not want to hang out with no one else’s kids.

I do agree about trial separation

Really? I can also be killed in a car crash tomorrow so I shouldn’t leave the house. By this logic we should never do anything because everything can go wrong at any point.

I agree that a 6 month separation is a great idea and should be done. Besides, if he really loved ypu, he wouldn't leave you agonizing like this.

He has certainly agonized over this topic. We have talked about it repeatedly. He has discussed alternatives. Part of his reason for not wanting kids is not passing down health issues. So we talked adoption. But it’s the lifestyle he doesn’t want too. He spent months babysitting and working with kids at work to see how he would do with kids. He said even the kids he enjoyed being around were exhausting and would not want to be a 24/7 job. We talked about maybe just having 1 to make it easier but he doesn’t want any. He was just crying about this issue last night. I know he has been agonizing over this and it has been very difficult and something he tried to convince himself to do for my sake but at the end of the day bringing another life in the world shouldn’t be something you do for someone else. No amount of love in the world would make that okay. And I recognize that now but I don’t want to let him go.

I strongly disagree. And he didn’t use those words- those are my words. I know he doesn’t want me gone. He is recognizing that I would be giving up something important to me to be with him and thinks that he can never truly make me happy if I am not fulfilling the children void. He feels it’s too much to give up and knows I am doing it because I love him and don’t want to lose him.

I'd rather not be responsible for someone else's suffering.

You know what? Being a mother doesn't mean you need to be married or have a husband either. You could freeze your eggs and wait. You can get a donor. You could adopt. You have plenty of options to be a mother. And I say all this because not everything, including being a mother, is planned. And I don't want you to be worried if the plan doesn't go a certain way. If you want to be a mother, you will be.

And hell, your boyfriend might change his mind. You shouldn't hinge your choice to be a mother on this potentially happening but it could happen if there truly is love between you.

I say enjoy your relationship right now. Embrace it. When you're ready to be a mother, like "I want to get pregnant within the next few months and I can do it," then see where you guys are at. You both know what you want but if you don't want it right now, then enjoy each other as lovers committed to one another

I looked up your old posts and it seems that there is more to this story and there are more issues than him not wanting kids: his anger, bad temper, treating you badly in front of your family, insisting on place you have to live etc then he was ok with having kids but now he isn’t and wants to break up etc

It seems that a year ago you were asking if he is the one and you are asking same thing now. Looks like by now you’d know if he is the one. You don’t need 4 years to find out. You should know by now. Your guts are telling you he isn’t the one. You can do better

You are very young and have your life ahead of you.

I have to cite value in the post, above, by VernonJ that warns about all that can go wrong. That's exactly the kind of thinking that I do. (Like I said: I'm not normal.) But I also find value in the post, above, by divine that points out how life-destroying negative thinking can be. I guess the O.P. has to take her pick.

So this guy has "severe depression." He is a relatively young man, I presume, in a 4 year relationship with a pretty nice young woman who sounds quite devoted to him . . . and he is severely depressed. What's his problem? He sounds like a guy who doesn't even want to give life a chance. (He sounds a bit like me.)

One of the reasons I settled on a guy who already had kids is because I did not want to induce some young guy to come aboard the nut-train that I ride on. And I didn't want a guy who was already not interested in normal living. So I picked someone who had racked up normal experiences in life. I don't know what this young man has been through, but he seems to be making a career out of being miserable. He may be cooking dinner every night, but I'll bet he requires a lot of emotional tending to. And, of course, in a household with children his interminable inner angst might have to take a backseat to other more pressing concerns. It sounds to me like the O.P. is enabling this young man in having a very self-absorbed existence that is pretty unhealthy. I wonder does this guy have a job?

So he's had 4 years of feeling his girlfriend how severely depressed he is and couldn't possibly be expected to cope with fatherhood . . . and that's him being true to who he is. Someone ought to tell this guy to "snap out of it."

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic to the O.P.'s plight. Olive, you are in a bind here. You sound way too in love to be even capable of leaving him, but I think, maybe, you are being had. I could see if your boyfriend were suffering from a genetic disorder like Huntington's Chores, which poses a 50% risk of getting passed on to any child. That would be a good reason not to have your own biological children. (Jay Leno has a genetic disorder and opted not to pass it on. I respect that.) I guess I feel so strongly that your guy is on a fast track to staying miserable because he reminds me of me . . . and I see how sad my life has turned out.

Divine was posting, while I was posting, so I only now see her post. I think she is spot on!! This baby thing is a symptom of a bigger problem.

My conclusion: Get pregnant and let him deal with it. If he leaves you, I think you'll still be happier than you have been.

I think you have gotten tied up with a controlling game-player. Fatherhood might make him a better man.

Some people have to have what they need thrust upon them. Olive, you need to think outside the box. Don't be straight-jacketed by this guy's tight little mousetrap conception of what being true to oneself and sticking to one's principles is all about. His moral compass has a broken needle.

Excellent posting! He sounds like a real loser. Time to move on.

It also seems he threatened breaking up with you before if you choose to live in a different state. It also sounds like you gave up more to be with this man, more than just having kids.

Moving to a different state to live with him (why? You aren’t married),giving up your job, not being allowed to live in the same state as your parents etc and now this. How many more things you need to give up to keep him?

Not wanting children is the least of the problems here. This guy calls all the shots. I am wondering if you are struggling with low self esteem. Do you really believe this man is the only man on this planet you deserve?