[stargirlcassivey]

Hello everyone. I’m not sure if I’m posting in the right place, but I hope so. Looking for some advice on some current marital issues that have been getting worse for many years.

LONG post incoming.

My husband and I have been together since I was 17 (he was 23 at the time); we have been together for 11 years, married for 7. We have one child, a 3 year old. Lately I’ve felt so depressed and hopeless about our relationship, and I finally opened up and told him that I was tired of trying to live up to his expectations of me, and that there were times where I cried in my car after my workday because I didn’t want to go home. He was very upset at first, then very angry, but eventually suggested that we see a marriage counselor. We’re still trying to decide on the right one, however I’ve been doing a lot of research into healthy relationships and....quite frankly, our relationship appears to have numerous red flags, according to multiple sources on the internet. This seems like one of the best places to reach out, rather than a random blog or something, so I’m hoping to find a few answers here.

Our relationship started out amazing. He was sweet, overly thoughtful of me, would surprise me by showing up at my job or at my home, take me on spontaneous picnic dates, called me his “angel,” etc. I thought I had found the man of my dreams. We shared everything and would spent all night talking on the phone until we would fall asleep with the line still connected. It was wonderful.

And then he discovered that I had “lied” about the nature of a previous relationship. I had an old male friend that I never spoke to anymore; at the time, we had both been in love with the same person, and we connected over it. After we both withdrew from friendship with that person, we connected more deeply and had a very close friendship. We eventually tried to date (one makeout session, staying above the waist), though I had forgotten about it since I mainly thought of him as “a good friend.” Well, we didn’t talk anymore and it had been so long ago, I just completely forgot about that one mildly intimate encounter with my old friend. About one year into my relationship with my husband, I suddenly remembered that the friendship hadn’t just been a friendship, even though it was very very brief, and so I immediately told my husband the new information I had remembered, to make sure I was 100% honest with him. He FLIPPED OUT. Our relationship almost ended. To this day, he is convinced that I deliberately lied and hid that information from him, rather than simply forgetting an inconsequential encounter that meant very little to me in the grand scheme of my life experiences.

Ever since then, we had struggled with trust issues. For years, he would “snoop” through my phone, my messages, my call history, my online posts, my diaries (both physical and online), etc. If he found something he didn’t like, he would confront me on it and reveal that he had been snooping. I was heartbroken and felt very violated, but he always maintained that I shouldn’t be upset about it if I have nothing to hide. I have never really been able to see it that way; to me it is a clear violation of my privacy, and shows that he expects me to cheat on him and lie to him if given the slightest provocation. This has gone on for years. One time in the past, I was so frustrated with all of the snooping, I changed my phone passcode so he couldn’t get in. He was absolutely furious and unleashed a tirade on me that made me feel very ashamed, and like I had no business trying to hide anything from my husband, if we are to be “one” – his words.

For many years, he controlled our finances. He has all of my bank accounts and passwords, and maintained our budget and bills. He would often say that he thought I couldn’t handle it, or mention that if he has ever given me the chance to take care of bills, that I’m always late in paying them, so there’s no point in me trying to handle the finances. He would say that he worried about what would happen to me if he died, because I couldn’t “handle” taking care of finances. About 8-10 months ago, I finally got sick of it and blew up on him; told him I would handle all of the bills and finances, and prove that I could handle it, because I was tired of him treating me like a child. And I have been handling it just fine ever since.

I have often felt (and communicated to him) that I feel like he treats me like a child. That nothing I ever do is “good enough” for him, and he’s often constantly critical of me and how I handle things, and especially of how I handle our daughter. He has told me that he doesn’t think I am capable of taking care of a child. When I tell him how upset I am about his constant criticism, he tells me that I’m taking things the wrong way, that I have the wrong “filter” for his words and he doesn’t mean them negatively, I simply take them that way. That I should “know him” and know that he doesn’t mean what he says as an attack, even though I – and others! – see it that way when I share the situation with them.

Shortly after our daughter was born, my sex drive took an immense nosedive. I never wanted to do anything intimate. First because it was too painful (I had to have reconstructive surgery because my post-labor sew-up was done incorrectly), and then because I was too exhausted and emotionally overwhelmed to really care about sexual things. He became angry with me and told me that it wasn’t okay to keep refusing to be intimate with him, that it was wrong to deprive your partner of their sexual needs. I felt like I had no choice, and was not allowed to say no. Shortly after that, he started molesting me in my sleep – I would wake up to him fingering me. I felt so violated. I kept telling him that I hated it and wanted him to stop. He would always apologize and say that he knew it was wrong, but it would continue regardless. The only reason it stopped is because we started sleeping in separate rooms (one of us would sleep in the baby’s room). Now, our toddler sleeps in the bed between us, so it definitely doesn’t happen anymore.

What else....ah. He is often suspicious of me. If I don’t pick up my phone right away when he calls, he wants to know what I’m doing, who I’m talking to, why I’m not answering. I gave a friend and coworker a ride, because she had had surgery and couldn’t drive, and he was furious with me. He suspects me of having feelings for her, even though I have firmly maintained that she is just a friend and I have never felt that way about her. He does not believe me. One time I had a nightmare that a man climbed in the bedroom window and raped me; I woke up shaken and horrified, because it had felt real, but then I realized it was just a dream. He was furious with me for days; thought that it had really happened and I was lying about it being a dream.

Laid out like this, it really looks a whole lot worse than I always told myself it was. My friends and family all dislike him, and they have often expressed concerns about the way he treats me and talks to me. I’ve always stood up for him and believed him to be the good man he was when we started our relationship, but......now, after taking so many online tests and doing so much research, I’m starting to wonder if maybe this is an abusive relationship. I scored 84% on the “Is Your Relationship Healthy?” quiz at LoveIsRespect.org. And every other subsequent “Are you in an abusive relationship?” quiz or test I’ve taken has all unanimously said the same.

It is....very hard for me to accept that, because I still believe him to be a good man. I still love him, even though I feel very hurt, disrespected, violated, and trodden upon. I would like to stay in our relationship, and I don’t want to take my daughter’s daddy away from her, because she loves him deeply and he is so sweet to her. But I fear for the future of our relationship and my own emotional sanity. We are going to seek marriage counseling, but I just....I don’t know. Everyone I know has told me to leave.

What do you think? Are these behaviors acceptable? Is it normal to demand access to your partner’s phone at all times? Is it okay to be so rampantly suspicious, regardless of the fact that I have never been unfaithful and never will be?

I am lost.

Is this abuse?

[Bill3]

I agree with your many friends, relatives, and quizzes: his behavior is abusive and totally unacceptable.

I feel very hurt, disrespected, violated, and trodden upon

These feelings are valid. I'm very sorry that you have to deal with this pain from your own husband.

It is....very hard for me to accept that, because I still believe him to be a good man.

Maybe he is a good man in some ways. People are complicated: It is quite possible to be a doting father and an abusive husband. No matter how good he is in other ways, though, he is abusive to you.

Good job taking over the finances! It took courage to defy him.

One time I had a nightmare that a man climbed in the bedroom window and raped me; I woke up shaken and horrified, because it had felt real, but then I realized it was just a dream. He was furious with me for days; thought that it had really happened and I was lying about it being a dream.

His response to your terrifying nightmare is just stunning and totally hurtful and inappropriate. He did not comfort you for the terror of the dream? And what if it were true, that a man climbed in your window and raped you? He would be furious with you? That is just completely wrong, awful, horrible.

And he carries on in his fury for days? That in itself is abusive.

I still love him

What do you love about this man who controls, belittles, mistrusts, scorns, and sexually assaults you?

It is quite possible to love someone but also to realize that one should not be in a relationship with her/him.

I don’t want to take my daughter’s daddy away from her, because she loves him deeply and he is so sweet to her

If you were to separate from/divorce him, he would still have access to your daughter in a structured way. Your attorney would see that everything was structured fairly.

But speaking of your daughter, in my opinion you should ask yourself if the relationship that you have with your husband is something that you want her to take in and use as a model. The way her father treats you is what she will learn to expect and accept from the men in her adolescent and adult life. Is that what you want for her?

Is it okay to be so rampantly suspicious, regardless of the fact that I have never been unfaithful and never will be?

No.

Everyone I know has told me to leave.

I agree with them.

If you want to try marriage counseling, go ahead. Insist that he go each week, insist that he take it seriously and try to follow the guidance of the counselor.

I think that you yourself would benefit from individual counseling, to understand why you still accept the way that he treats you.

In my opinion, he could benefit from individual counseling as well. He needs it. The problem is not in your marriage, the problem is in his thinking and in his behavior.

[stargirlcassivey]

Thank you, Bill. I'm very grateful for your response and advice.

I agree with your viewpoint on his reaction to my nightmare. It was about a year ago, but frankly it still upsets me to think back to that time. There have been a few instances where he refused to believe me even when I was telling the truth, which has always hurt.

I still love him because, in many ways, he is a very good man. And he used to treat me very well, despite a few "warning signs" such as the snooping and suspicion and jealousy. It was always fairly minor and did not last long, so I forgave. I am a very forgiving, trusting, gullible person....I am very aware of this. I tend to believe the best of someone, no matter what, until I absolutely cannot anymore and there is absolutely no doubt. This is kind of where I am in our marriage, in fact. I believed the best of him for so many years, and now I have lost my "rose glasses" and have realized how unhappy this relationship has become. Which is heart-breaking because, in many ways, he was a wonderful partner. For many years he supported me, encouraged me, gave me advice on issues I was struggling with, was thoughtful and considerate, etc. Things started to take a turn for the worse after 2 years, then got better and healed and our relationship was good again, and then......well, I hate to say this, but after I gave birth our relationship collapsed. I have no idea why, but our daughter's birth somehow triggered him to start treating me like a horrible person and a horrible mother. This went on for 2 years, until I started feeling suicidal. I've been there before (as a teen) so I knew how to talk myself down from it without external help, and then I realized that for me to be thinking those thoughts, something was very very wrong and I needed to seek out the source. It is then that I began to realize our relationship was unhealthy.

But speaking of your daughter, in my opinion you should ask yourself if the relationship that you have with your husband is something that you want her to take in and use as a model. The way her father treats you is what she will learn to expect and accept from the men in her adolescent and adult life. Is that what you want

I have asked myself this question over and over for the last 2 weeks. I do not want this for her, no matter what. But I have hope for change through counseling.

I absolutely agree on the counseling aspect. To be honest, I have suggested marriage counseling for us many times over the years and he always scoffed at it, saying that it was just for people trying to prove that they are right and their partner is wrong. (Which is not at all how I see it!)

In the last few days, his behavior has changed dramatically. Bought me flowers, has been very considerate and thoughtful, respectful of my boundaries, allowing me the space to tell him no to sexual advances, allowing me to have a phone and online accounts he cannot access, etc. He said he realized that he has been trying to control me and that he needs to change, and is willing to go to counseling to seek this change.

But....I am scared. Part of me is hopeful, but the other part wonders how long this will last, and when things will go back to the way they were before.

I have already decided that I will leave if his behaviors continue or come back. I do not want that for myself, or for my daughter.

.....it is so hard to accept that this is domestic abuse. It seems so unreal to think that I allowed this to happen in my life.

[~Christina]

Bill’s advice is as always fantastic.

Please do get into Therapy it will really help you decide how you want to live with or without being married to him.

[Bill3]

n the last few days, his behavior has changed dramatically. Bought me flowers, has been very considerate and thoughtful, respectful of my boundaries, allowing me the space to tell him no to sexual advances, allowing me to have a phone and online accounts he cannot access, etc. He said he realized that he has been trying to control me and that he needs to change, and is willing to go to counseling to seek this change.

Be aware that abusers typically have periods of time when they are kind, supportive, etc. That is a standard part of the cycle of abuse. It is particularly likely to happen when an abuser is concerned that he may be losing his grip on his victim.

But....I am scared. Part of me is hopeful, but the other part wonders how long this will last, and when things will go back to the way they were before.

Yes. I'm sorry to say that that, in my opinion, that is the usual pattern absent outside intervention/therapy: return to the longstanding abusive behaviors.

I have already decided that I will leave if his behaviors continue or come back. I do not want that for myself, or for my daughter.

I'm glad to hear this!

.....it is so hard to accept that this is domestic abuse. It seems so unreal to think that I allowed this to happen in my life.

It sounds like you might be blaming yourself. If so it would be particularly helpful, I think, to discuss these ideas of self-blame with a therapist. I believe that a good therapist can help you understand how you--a person who is very forgiving, trusting, gullible person....who tends to believe the best of someone, no matter what, until I absolutely cannot anymore and there is absolutely no doubt--ended up experiencing domestic abuse.

What concerns me a great deal is that his sudden change in behavior--the flowers, the thoughtfulness, the respect, his willingness to "allow" you to reject sexual advances, to "allow" you to have a phone and private online accounts--might be akin to a reset: They might give new inspiration to your extreme willingness to forgive and trust and believe the best, no matter what. Be very attentive to, and very careful about, the tendencies of yours that he might be recharging with his sudden change in behavior.

[stargirlcassivey]

Originally Posted by ~Christina

Bill’s advice is as always fantastic.

Please do get into Therapy it will really help you decide how you want to live with or without being married to him.

Thank you, Christina. We finally settled on/agreed on a counselor last night, so I plan to set up an appointment with her today.

[stargirlcassivey]

Be aware that abusers typically have periods of time when they are kind, supportive, etc. That is a standard part of the cycle of abuse. It is particularly likely to happen when an abuser is concerned that he may be losing his grip on his victim.

Thank you for the reminder. This is honestly the only thing that has kept me from immediately softening my heart to him again. My mother bought me "The Emotionally Destructive Marriage" by Leslie Vernick a couple days ago and I'm eager to finish reading; it has been very helpful in identifying patterns from our past.

I've also been making plans, over the last few weeks; changed the passwords to all of my email addresses, changed the usernames and passwords to all of my bank and credit card accounts; my parents have already stated that I and my daughter are welcome to stay until the end of time, but I've also been looking into possible apartment options, as well as planning a budget in the event that I get a divorce and become a single mother. We had intended to buy a house this year (which continued to be impossible through strange circumstances, which looking back I think may have been God trying to tell me something!!) so I have over $12,000 saved in the bank right now. My husband quit his job some years ago and we have been living on my income up until 1 year ago when he got a weekend job.

It sounds like you might be blaming yourself. If so it would be particularly helpful, I think, to discuss these ideas of self-blame with a therapist.

Yes, I agree. I intend to seek individual counseling for myself as well as my husband; he had a panic attack/mental breakdown a week ago and stayed inside a single room for 3 days straight. I wish I had called 911, but I had thought at first that it was food poisoning and so wasn't too concerned beyond the obvious 'keep him hydrated' sort of thing.

Be very attentive to, and very careful about, the tendencies of yours that he might be recharging with his sudden change in behavior.

You are not the first person to say this to me. I am trying very hard to remain guarded during this time.

Again, thank you so much for your insight and advice. I greatly appreciate it.

[Bill3]

I am so glad to learn that you have safety plans, emotional support, and financial resources in place. Be strong!

[Purple,Violet,Blue]

Wishing you the very best. As others have said, here and on other threads, this can happen to anyone.

I just thought I'd mention, in case you're in any doubt, many people on the forum are probably here because of fathers like him.

My mother was a very loving and wonderful person, but for one reason or another, wasn't able to leave my father. There was always some very good reason... or he'd be nice to her for a while.

Like you, she underestimated the misery of being a child in that environment. In some ways, that decision ruined my life.

I'm not trying to make you feel guilt or panic on top of everything else. I'm with you, and really want the best outcome for you.

But don't fool yourself into thinking he's a good father. He's not. He's a deeply selfish man.

You don't want to be having the conversation I had with my mother years later...

"But WHY didn't you leave him?"

[healingme4me]

I'm glad that you are reclaiming your bank account. Did you just write that you were only recently 'allowed' to pay the bills as the only income maker?
That flags to me as him monitoring your spending from leaving.
Otherwise, you've been given a wealth of advice and input. It's good to reach out, utilize therapy-individual and marital and perhaps a chat with someone who specializes in domestic violence, and connecting with others that have had gone through it and survived to tell their stories.
There's much to unravel from.

[stargirlcassivey]

Originally Posted by Bill3

I am so glad to learn that you have safety plans, emotional support, and financial resources in place. Be strong!

Thank you, Bill!

You don't want to be having the conversation I had with my mother years later..."But WHY didn't you leave him?

This has absolutely been on my mind. Thank you for the reminder.

Did you just write that you were only recently 'allowed' to pay the bills as the only income maker

Yes.

[stargirlcassivey]

Hello everyone. Thank you again for your input, advice, and encouragement.

I prayed yesterday for a sign of whether I should stay and try to go through counseling, or whether to just leave and save my sanity and protect my daughter. I got my answer last night.

He interrogated me for nearly 30 minutes last night, trying to find out if I was lying to him about the last time I masturbated and why I don't want to do anything with him. He told me (in a roundabout way, without ever explicitly stating the words so he could later say "I never said that!") that I am untrustworthy, he cannot believe what I say, and that I usually remember things incorrectly. He told me I treat him like ****, after admitting that he deliberately went snooping again and read my diary (apparently the passcode was removed on my old phone when I switched to my new phone).

I realized last night that it doesn't matter how much counseling we do. He will never trust me. He will never believe what I say. He will always suspect me of wrongdoings. He will always twist my words to make himself out to be the victim. He will never respect any personal boundaries I have. He will always go snooping. He will always believe the worst of me.

I don't want this life. I don't want this for myself, or for my daughter.

I'm done.

[Purple,Violet,Blue]

Oh Star, that is big news!

I wish you were down the road and I could give you a real hug. You seem like a lovely person. Life has better things in store for you than that distressing situation.

Much love.

[Sunflower123]

Originally Posted by Purple,Violet,Blue

Wishing you the very best. As others have said, here and on other threads, this can happen to anyone.

I just thought I'd mention, in case you're in any doubt, many people on the forum are probably here because of fathers like him.

My mother was a very loving and wonderful person, but for one reason or another, wasn't able to leave my father. There was always some very good reason... or he'd be nice to her for a while.

Like you, she underestimated the misery of being a child in that environment. In some ways, that decision ruined my life.

I'm not trying to make you feel guilt or panic on top of everything else. I'm with you, and really want the best outcome for you.

But don't fool yourself into thinking he's a good father. He's not. He's a deeply selfish man.

You don't want to be having the conversation I had with my mother years later...

"But WHY didn't you leave him?"

This is so true (in my case we were asking her to divorce him as we were growing up). Star, have no doubt you’ve made the right decision for you and for your daughter. I wish you the best in transitioning away from him and to the happiness and life you deserve.

You are taking all the right steps to protect yourself and prepare for leaving him. And I am glad to hear you say that you are done!

The fact of the matter is, this IS abuse. There is no way around it. The invasion of privacy, the disrespect, treating you like a child and not an equal, the jealousy, the accusations, the interrogation, the extreme mistrust and the controlling behaviors are all a part of abuse. Abuse is NOT love, which is important to understand and realize. Abuse is ALWAYS about control and power over another. ALWAYS. It is rooted in deeply held insecurities in the abuser. He may love you in his own warped, twisted way, but he wants power and control over you, ultimately.

As someone had said, abuse is also cyclical in nature -- they will try to win you over after a period of abuse, with flowers, apologies and EVEN admission of wrongdoing. It is all a manipulative ACT to get you to trust them again and not leave them. Same with the wonderful honeymoon period... that was all an act to cover up who he truly is inside... an abuser.

Abusive people do not have two sides to them. Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde are one and the same person.

I, too, have been through abusive relationships and just got out of one, in fact.

So if you suspect this to be true & have taken tests even, know that your instincts are right... you are right.

Now, abusers RARELY change, and that is a statistical fact. Yes, they may agree to therapy, but they will put on an act to seem as though they are willing to change. So what you suspect is that this will keep happening, even though he is giving you what you want and need right now.

It takes A LOT of personal therapy for the abuser to actually change themselves. They actually have to admit to their abusive nature, which goes against their very core of who they are. They may ACT like they are apologetic, but really, deep down, they are not.

If you want to PM me for anything, I'm available. I know a lot about the topic, I've read a ton about abuse, and have been healing from abuse lately myself. (((((((((((HUGS))))))))

[stargirlcassivey]

I am ashamed to say that my statement of "I'm done" was more emotion than truth. I got sucked in by the lie, the comfort of counseling, the charm of improved conditions between us.

Now, here we are, 6 months later. The cycle of abuse continues. A month ago, he told me I came home smelling like sex and demanded to know who it was; interrogated me, refused to believe me when I said it was just body odor from my incoming period, etc. I blew up on him and told him that he will never do that to me again, or I will leave. 2 weeks ago, he told me to go get an STD test because I'm "so secretive" that he doesn't know "who I spend time with or where I go anymore." One week ago, he told me it was my fault that he molested me for 3 years. Said that my actions had consequences, and me reading a few sexual stories online and masturbating instead of wanting to be intimate with him put pressure on him and made him feel inadequate, and caused him to feel like he should do those things to me....because I "obviously wanted them and liked them more than I ever wanted to have sex with him."

I was utterly horrified. I went into physical shock, fled from the room after screaming "STOP!" at him (because he wouldn't stop talking about it, despite me telling him to several times), and I was shaking for nearly 30 minutes before the tears finally started.

Now. Now I am done.

I meet with an attorney on Monday to file divorce papers. I have my important documents, I have the abuse documented, I have a large support group ready wih money or safe havens or emotional support, I finally, finally, have the resolve to stop this cycle.

Three days ago, he told me everything I ever wanted to hear. Said he realized he is controlling, obsessive, jealous, prideful, and is hurting everyone around him. Said he understands that he became my rapist, that he has already lost me, my heart, my love, and my respect. That he wasn't worthy of them in the first place. He asked.....no, he essentially told me that I should stay for the sake of our daughter, that it would rip her apart to have us divorce, and would affect her life for years to come. Said he won't touch me or control me anymore, we could have separate bedrooms, and we should stay together so our daughter can have both parents together in her life. Said twice that he would refuse to sign divorce papers.

It's too little, too late. I've already talked to the attorney by phone; he says I would win no contest, full custody, no alimony. Said my husband doesn't have a leg to stand on and no judge would consider him fit for custody.

It will be a long and ugly battle.

It's time.

[stargirlcassivey]

Originally Posted by golden_eve

As someone had said, abuse is also cyclical in nature -- they will try to win you over after a period of abuse, with flowers, apologies and EVEN admission of wrongdoing. It is all a manipulative ACT to get you to trust them again and not leave them. Same with the wonderful honeymoon period... that was all an act to cover up who he truly is inside... an abuser.

You were 1000% right. I couldn't see it before.

Thank you.