[ShadowGX]

I could use someone to talk to right now who won't judge me. Please be careful with advice and if you want to advise read the whole post, I have thought a lot about this so I don't need basic advice. I'm hoping for some encouragement that I'm handling this as I should be and that maybe things aren't as bad as my fear wants me to think they are.

I didn't think this situation I've gotten myself into would hurt me so much. Here I am, at work writing this, fighting back tears because of it... My gut aches again with anxiety. I thought I was relieved when I told my friend the feelings I had for him. At first, I was relieved... It felt much better than the initial plan of running away from him entirely when I first realized what I felt for him. He took it very well and I've been openly talking about it with him. I'm the one not taking it well.

I've been extremely dependent on him lately to keep my mood up. I'm turning 30 soon and it has been very hard for me watching my younger brothers both find love and have happy lives while I'm barely scraping by and have no one but this friend and some acquaintances. He's been so kind to me - even at my worst, somehow he makes me feel better... So naturally I developed feelings for him. I told him on Wednesday how I feel. Long story short, he can't know if he feels anything for me without meeting IRL. Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention this is an internet friendship... (Please don't judge, it's all I have.) Now, I'm all for meeting, but there's two huge problems standing in the way:
1. He lives in France, I live in the US. I dunno if you guys know this, but France is kinda not near the US. There's a lot of water in-between, and not the kind you can just swim across. Flights also aren't cheap and I'm not made out of money, nor is he.
2. He's dealing with a very recent trauma thanks to an ex and is not looking for a relationship until he recovers from that, which is totally fair and so I'm trying to remain respectful of that and is partially why we agreed to wait until he was done with school to consider if we would be a good couple.

After he had logged off Wednesday night though I started thinking about what waiting until after he was done with school meant. Initially I thought maybe school was 3 years max with 2 being likely based on previous chats, but I found out today that it's at least 3 and possibly 5. I'm having such a hard time with that. That's very scary, the thought of being left in limbo that long, only to be told "no".

So today I proposed a few things that I thought might help. I suggested video chats and using voice chats more often, but apparently that's not the same and would not help him make a decision. I then suggested meeting next year or even the year after during a holiday period if finances allowed it. He's up for that, but we're both concerned about the cost... I didn't do any serious looking, but the cheapest I quickly found on one site to a Paris airport, round-trip, was nearly $800 and he lives about an hour away so a train ride of top of that. That's a huge amount of money for me. I'd also need some spending money, so I think I'd need like $1000 minimum if not more, definitely more if I stayed at a hotel and not with him. Tax returns are usually great for me and I'm sure I could get the cash that way if I didn't spend it like I normally do, but that's an expensive trip, especially if it meant getting heartbroken too. I'm not at all interested in any touristy reasons to go to France, so it would strictly be to visit him.

At this moment my plan is to figure out as much as I can if it is a good match before meeting. To me, he checks off all of the things I need from a mate and some of the wants as well with none of the deal breakers. We've done a lot of unintended comparing in our chats and I know I could check a lot of good boxes for him as well. We both have needs that are very hard to find in other people. I've honestly never had someone be such a close match to what my ideal is. Considering how we even found each other, how "lucky" it is... It just feels like things aligned to lead me to him and like he's that one special person I've been waiting for. I'm still learning how to listen to my gut, but I think it's my gut saying that too, I feel like the fear and panic are not of my gut and of my disorder (I have BPD) making me terrified that this is just going to hurt me in the end.

There's so many obstacles here, I can't help but be afraid. I want to be smart about this... but I so want this to work out. I really think we could make each other happy. I have been so happy lately because of him, no one has ever managed that... But I feel like it's so out of reach, like this is a cruel game the universe/God/whatever is playing on me. Deprive me of love for so long, make me think I'll die alone, then just when I've given up allow the perfect person to appear and keep him at a distance that seems impossible to close... I just want to hold him so badly... I feel so pathetic for writing this, but I need to.

I read the whole post and the geographical distance is a concern I have, particularly as you say neither of you have a lot of money (I don't know what flights cost). I think video chatting to begin with (maybe on skype) is the right way to go for now while both of you try to save up some money so one can afford to travel and meet the other, if both of you decide you want to give it a try

No judgement here though

[ShadowGX]

Originally Posted by whispershadow

I read the whole post and the geographical distance is a concern I have, particularly as you say neither of you have a lot of money (I don't know what flights cost). I think video chatting to begin with (maybe on skype) is the right way to go for now while both of you try to save up some money so one can afford to travel and meet the other, if both of you decide you want to give it a try

No judgement here though

Thanks, I appreciate it.

Yes, even though he said the video chats wouldn't decide it for him, I definitely want to do that before meeting him just because I know it will help me be more comfortable meeting him. I didn't even mention the anxiety regarding that, which is going to be big... I have NEVER met someone from the internet IRL and I do still struggle communicating with my voice, especially face to face, so I feel like it's 100% necessary that getting used to video chatting happens before IRL meeting.

[ShadowGX]

On that note as well, it's probably worth mentioning that it's almost certainly going to have to be me going to him, not him coming to me, though this is just me assuming based on what his situation is like as we've not talked about that. Aaaaand I don't know French beyond really basic stuff and meme things. So that's fun for the anxiety too. From what he says, while Frenchies are supposed to learn English in school, most don't and I would have a hard time finding many English speakers. I'd have to rely on him to translate a lot of stuff or learn some French myself. And well... I don't like the language (just the accent is tasty)... But meh, if that's what it takes...

[ShadowGX]

I looked again at flight prices because I'm bored at work and scared to not have something to do... It definitely seems really unrealistic. I found a couple flights next June for around $700, but when I did some research into those "special deals" it can be because of huge layovers and weird things like airport switching, plus you don't get to know flight details until you book and pay, and it's non-refundable... Without the special deals, the best I could find was just over $1k, and that was for a 2-stop flight with a massive layover of like 20 hours. After that, the prices skyrocket to add another $300-$400... Yeesh. I can't look at July or August '19 yet and that's when it would have to be, but the prices won't be massively different in that time... Not looking good. I need to win the lottery to afford it realistically.

Definitely not feeling hopeful. I think I need to find some way to be content with staying friends on the internet. He wants to move to Canada when he's done with school, and financially that seems like it will be the only option I could afford since I could technically just drive there and depending on where in Canada it might be pretty easy (I live in Michigan which is pretty close to it). And well I dunno, I just felt this wave of calm when typing that... So I don't think me flying to France is an option period with my anxiety, it's just too scary with all factors considered.

[Purple,Violet,Blue]

I feel for you. Seems like you're trying to rush ahead too much, though. You've only just said that you like him. And he responded favourably. That's good.

Honestly, I understand that you feel like you've been waiting so long for this, and he's the perfect fit, and why wait?

But that attitude might be detrimental to your relationship.

You absolutely do not intend to wait for 3 years, just to get a no.

You won't let that happen.

Relax a little, if you can. Play it cool, in a way. By which I mean the ideal attitude when going into a relationship is to enjoy every day, make the most of every experience and put no pressure on each other.

A Skype daily interaction is the way to go!

[CantExplain]

I met up with an internet friend when I crossed the Tasman Sea (and that was fine), but that wasn't the reason I went. I wouldn't cross the Atlantic unless it was for someone really special.

[ShadowGX]

Originally Posted by Purple,Violet,Blue

I feel for you. Seems like you're trying to rush ahead too much, though. You've only just said that you like him. And he responded favourably. That's good.

Honestly, I understand that you feel like you've been waiting so long for this, and he's the perfect fit, and why wait?

But that attitude might be detrimental to your relationship.

Relax a little, if you can. Play it cool, in a way. By which I mean the ideal attitude when going into a relationship is to enjoy every day, make the most of every experience and put no pressure on each other.

A Skype daily interaction is the way to go!

Eh, "favorably" might be a bit of a stretch. "Neutral" feels more accurate. It's not a "no", but also not a "yes", and it's up to me completely to pursue the topic, he would be entirely content not talking about it, but he tolerates it because he's great like that.

Yes, I don't want to push it and make him feel badly or like he needs to withdraw. I've already made him feel badly once to where he actually said so. I do need to be careful, but I have such a hard time with the anxiety of not getting answers.

I am trying to relax and just go back to enjoying his friendship. He's such a good friend and I love what we have. I need to focus on that instead of letting my mind wander to wanting to touch him for real. It's so very hard to control right now, but I'm hoping with more time it will get easier.

Aye, I will bring up video chats again at a later date. It would be a good challenge for me regardless of if it helps him like me more or not, and I think it could further improve our friendship at least. I trust him and think he would be perfect to try it with, like he's not gonna hold it against me if I'm a bit more withdrawn or something. Daily would be too much for us both I'm sure, but I'm hoping I could convince him to try weekly or every other week (our schedules clash a lot with timezones and me working, him working currently and will be back to school in September).

[ShadowGX]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I wouldn't cross the Atlantic unless it was for someone really special.

Well he's definitely special, but my anxiety (and finances) just isn't going to allow me to fly over there and it's unlikely he will come to me, especially before he's entirely done with school.

[Bill3]

To me, his responsiveness to your expression of your feelings has been lukewarm. For this reason, I agree with the plan you mentioned of just enjoying his friendship. I would not look further into travel, or decide to wait for him, until such time as he expresses more of an interest in a possible relationship.

I’m sorry that he hasn’t given a more encouraging response.

[MistressStayc]

I also would advise keeping it just about friendship for now without any expectations for what may come. Let things happen naturally and don't try to force them considering his neutral response to your confession of wanting more.

I will tell you from experience how difficult a transatlantic relationship is. I was in one for about 2 years with someone I met here actually (me US and him UK). We also started out as close friends but we skyped everyday as friends and both of us had a desire for more. We saw each other about 5 times during that period (each visiting the other at various times). As a couple we continued to skype everyday for hours usually. Even with all of that, to say how hard it was is an understatement.

So seeing as you are starting from a lesser point than we did, please take the difficulty into consideration as well as overcoming his neutrality with this. Stay grounded and rational which it seems like you are able to do. It's the best course of action.

[ShadowGX]

Indeed, I actually do have quite a bit of long distance relationship experience already. It's actually my only experience... Back when I could convince people I was worth trying, heh. I was also very young then. My last relationship was when I was 21 and I'm turning 30 soon. To be fair none of those were all that real and would have never worked, but it still gives me a good idea of what issues may be. Thinking about it that way which I haven't yet, it would maybe make it more difficult to not be able to cuddle with him for real.

I might seem grounded, and to some extent I am, but there are times when I am not and am caught up in the emotions, like last night when I first started typing up the op. I just wanted to hide in his arms and have him tell me he wanted me too at that point and I could not escape that thought. I have a few different thoughts that I use to try to keep myself grounded in the reality of it, but my emotions are very strong and I have a hard time controlling them sometimes. BPD ain't fun. This poor guy has already seen me at my worst though and stayed... I feel so lucky to have him in my life at all. I don't want to compromise that.

[ShadowGX]

Ugh, but now because I went and said that "back when I could convince people I was worth trying" part I'm stuck in this loop of self-hate. "Of course he won't want you", I say to myself. "You're ugly and a mess emotionally, who the hell wants someone like that? You've got nothing to offer, that's why you've been alone so long and why you'll die that way. Just give up already." Fun stuff like that.

[Bill3]

(((((ShadowGX)))))

[ShadowGX]

Tonight before work I started to get near crying again and so I thought maybe a mantra would help, so I came up with one. I've settled on "I love our friendship" as my mantra, and just repeated that over and over. Not only is it accurate, but it takes the focus off of having more with him. So far it's helping. Mantras don't usually work for too long with me, but here's hoping.

[ShadowGX]

A couple more positives, both starting because of negatives.

Even with the mantra, I was still feeling a bit lost and not as confident in my chosen path, so I remembered there's a tarot thread here and out of desperation for some comfort I tried the sites people suggested. Now, I don't necessarily believe in it, but it was... interesting... how all but like 1 or 2 cards were clearly relevant AND positive, and this is from 3 different websites with very different cards. Only one card was negative, but I'm unsure how to interpret it so I don't know that it's relevant.

This other event I guess is more of a "proud of myself" than "good thing that happened", but proud is good too I suppose. Today when I tried talking to friend further about this stuff he was acting very stressed and was extremely uncooperative. I was trying to get him to comment on something I had written last night, but he kept insisting he replied already even though he hadn't and by the end I got out of him that he was just trying to move to a different subject, but because of my social retardation I didn't get that hint. I ended up directly asking him if he was in a bad mood and he said he had a lot going on at the moment. So, after a bit of thought, I decided I've been selfish lately and that I was going to "give him the night off" so to speak. Seems he tries to take on too much at once, and despite us agreeing that he would set boundaries with me, he didn't in this case and I will be talking to him abut that for sure... but tomorrow, or if he messages me tonight after things calm down (though it's now 1:30am over there so I doubt it will be tonight).

Originally Posted by Bill3

To me, his responsiveness to your expression of your feelings has been lukewarm. For this reason, I agree with the plan you mentioned of just enjoying his friendship. I would not look further into travel, or decide to wait for him, until such time as he expresses more of an interest in a possible relationship.


I’m sorry that he hasn’t given a more encouraging response.

I agree with Bill you could be investing an awful lot of time and money into something you’re already feeling anxious about.

[ShadowGX]

Originally Posted by Sisabel

I agree with Bill you could be investing an awful lot of time and money into something you’re already feeling anxious about.

Indeed, which is why I decided I definitely am not going to fly there, he would have to be willing to fly to me and that's unlikely, so that means it must wait until he moves to Canada because cheapness and I can just drive there which is at ? point in the future. If it's meant to be it will find a way to work. If not, I will try to find someone else (lul gl to me), and I am still considering that so I haven't gone and closed any of my dating profiles.

Originally Posted by ShadowGX

Indeed, which is why I decided I definitely am not going to fly there, he would have to be willing to fly to me and that's unlikely, so that means it must wait until he moves to Canada because cheapness and I can just drive there which is at ? point in the future. If it's meant to be it will find a way to work. If not, I will try to find someone else (lul gl to me), and I am still considering that so I haven't gone and closed any of my dating profiles.

That’s good. I’m sorry it’s been a disappointing situation for you. It’s so hard to connect with the right people.

[divine1966]

I’d be suspicious of him refusing video chatting. What’s that about?

[ShadowGX]

He didn't outright refuse, just said it wouldn't help him decide if I would be a potential mate. I have not yet asked if we could try it for fun or as a challenge to me.

[divine1966]

I would be concerned that he isn’t who he says he is if doesn’t want to talk on chat. Just being careful here

[ShadowGX]

We've talked on voice chats plenty of times, just not video. But yeah I get the concern. I'd be more concerned if he was pushing to meet me tho and/or trying to get something out of me, but he has done none of those things. I'm the one pushing for more with him. I also know that part of the reason I'm on the internet is because of my anxiety and I would never let just anyone see me in a video chat, that doesn't make me fake.

It is a concern I keep in mind though. I would never meet him without a video chat first, and multiple of them.

[ShadowGX]

The thought of not wanting to hurt him is overwhelming me today and making me into a monster. I was so cold with him tonight. I don't want to be, but I feel I need to be. I had to go to that special dark place in my head to accomplish it. Worst part, there was a period of a small bit of light shining through and I started to reach out, but when he replied I froze and couldn't allow that light, I had to go dark and cold again. I also knew today was going to be very rough for him because of something that was supposed to happen at work and he even expressed being upset - I wanted so badly to ask about it and help him, but I knew that would mean stepping into the light and I couldn't do it. I can't tell if this is panic enduced or if it's my gut telling me to be this way. I'm still not eating so it could be the emotions since they're not letting me eat either. I'm definitely not thinking clearly... But if it isn't my gut then why does my gut sit silent when I need it the most?

[CantExplain]

Such is unrequited love.