Was This Setting Boundaries or a Tantrum?

So... once again... true to form... I'm in tears over another "relationship" that seems to have ended before it began, and I can't tell if it's a good thing or not.

I had been communicating with this guy for a few weeks. Why we decided to start communicating during a pandemic is beyond me, but we did. Initially, we had some decent interactions. He was asking some really good questions and he seemed genuinely interested.

After a couple weeks of texting, we moved to video chats, but I noticed that he wasn't really talkative face-to-face, and he preferred texting more (at 38 I think this is juvenille, but I was trying to be open minded).

One night at the end of a video chat, he said he would call me the next day. I heard nothing. Not wanting to make it a thing, I let it go and continued to text / talk one-on-one very limited.

As pandemic restrictions started to lift, I suggested that we meet at a park with hopes that I could see how he interacted in person. We made these plans on 4/30 and were going to meet on 5/8. I confirmed TWICE, and he said he was looking forward to it... the day before, he started pushing the meeting time back (we live about an hour apart). When I asked about the sudden cool reception, he stated that he got his daughter (14 years old) at the last minute and didn't know if he could have her back at her mom' s in time to make our date.

I tactfully challenged this, and reminded him that INTEGRITY was important to me. We ended that conversation agreeing to "get to know each other better" before meeting face to face. During this exchange I expressed my desire to talk one-on-one more. He seemed to agree, but I still had to ask for our next video chat.

The following day, he did call me on his own, and I was quite pleased. I was thinking that my gut feeling that he wasn't really interested (despite saying he was when I directly asked him) was wrong... that I needed to just be clear about my boundaries.

Once again, at the end of that video chat, he said he would call the next day. I got my morning Good Morning text banter and no phone call the entire day. At this point (9 PM that night) I decided to let him know that we should just "be friends" and take the potential romance part out. I feel like I am "chasing" someone that doesn't want to be caught.

He (over text of course) asked what changed and I reiterated everything and he was just like ... "If that's how you feel..."

So why do I feel so awful and rejected? I did something different and asked for what I needed and set boundaries... but now I'm bawling my eyes out.

I never trust myself. Was I too hard on him? Was I demanding too much too fast or am I so desperate that I'll just (continue) to put up with breadcrumbs?

NOT a good day

Sorry you aren’t feeling well

Honestly...You don’t know this person. Texting and even video chatting isn’t a relationship.

Honestly if you’ve never even met I’d not expect daily phone calls. I think it’s unusual.

I’ve met my husband online and we probably exchanged one messaged a day, not back and forth texting and talked twice on the phone before we met. We didn’t call each other every day. Of course when we’ve met it all changed but even then I don’t think we talked on the phone every day between dates until maybe few dates, we exchanged few texts but that’s about it.

I’ve talked to men who demanded a lot of interaction early on and it was very bothersome to me. I usually didn’t want to continue.

I understand it’s tough to date now. You can’t meet. But you still can’t rush things. Just get to know people slowly. Also when you have kids at home sometimes dates (or video chats) have to be rescheduled or postponed. It doesn’t mean he lacks integrity. That’s just how it is with kids and custody arrangements

I do think it was too soon to be expecting much from someone when an in person meeting did not occur yet. However, that being said, he did say on two separate occasions that he would call you the next day, and he did not follow through. SO, from that perspective, I think you have every right to have doubts about whether this person has the ability to follow through on what he says and claims. And pushing back the time on the day you were supposed to meet? Maybe he's not reliable. So, the bottom line is: I think you did well by keeping track of things and being on top of noticing when he may fall short. So, good job, I say!

But yeah, in general I think during a pandemic is a tough time to try and date. I also think that you don't need to spell out your expectations of someone from the outset. If they fall short, you can just say, thanks, but we're not the right match. If you spell out what you expect, then the other person may try harder to meet that expectation and unnaturally. Just let things unfold naturally, and sit back and observe. Then make your decision. That's my two cents!

This is helpful. Actually, I was (and still am) completely OK with not talking / texting everyday.

My radar went off when he SAID he was going to do something and he didn't.

The first time he said he would call and he didn't, I didn't mention it at all. He texted the next day and we continued. My thoughts were... anything could have happened (but I didn't forget it).

The "broken" date, on the other hand, caused me to raise an eyebrow. First, I gave him plenty of lead time to back out or inform me of a change of plans. I sensed some apprehension and even directly asked him if he still wanted to visit, he said yes. The morning before the day of the date, I confirmed a time again and he seemed cool with it. Later that evening, he started pushing the meeting time back which worried me.

He told me that he had his daughter and didn't think he would be able to get her back in time for our date. In my mind, I wondered why he couldn't have arranged to have her back in enough time to visit (and she is 14... not a young child), especially since we had made these plans almost two weeks in advance. I did challenge him on this the next day (requested video chat) and took that opportunity to make it clear that:

1) If he decided that he didn't want to come it was OK
2) I was OK with communicating more before a face-to-face meeting
3) If this wasn't a "love connection" it was OK but just keep it real
4) Early on, I would like to talk a bit more to make sure that meeting face to face is even worth the time money and energy
5) We both have other options, so if it doesn't work... no problem

He assured me that he was interested and I let the missed date go.

BUT... the third time he said he wasn't going to call and didn't really made me think that this is a pattern for him. I understand things happen, but just SAY that. I'm not trying to keep tabs on him, but if he can't even keep his word about a phone call, then is this the start of a string of broken promises?

...and I don't understand the whole kid / custody thing. BUT having had a guy do the same things before only to receive a call from the "ex wife who turned out to be the current wife at home", I'm a bit more careful and ask questions.

I dunno. I've always had a hard time asking for what I need, and I was proud of myself for stating it, and giving him THREE chances, but I don't want to be a doormat anymore....

Oh well... we live and we learn. I don't think I was rushing... I didn't say he had to call every day... just do what you say you're gonna do or just provide a quick heads up if things change.

Could he not have said "Hey... somethings up with my daughter (who he picked up earlier that day), I may not be able to make it... or can we reschedule? Something came up... or even texted "Hey, I'm not feeling well. Can we chat on the phone another time?"

I would have understood that. I get that things come up, and I told him clearly what I needed. VERY nicely! I dunno. I don't get men.

I think if you have to spell out that early on that you want more interaction with a man and him to call you more or you want to meet him etc then it’s already imbalanced and already frustrating from the get go. In my long life experience if you need to tell a man that you want more from him, it’ll never work. It’s either there or it’s not. I’d move on at this point

Nothing wrong with asking for what you want and speaking up but it’s different if what you are asking a man you barely know to be more into it than he is. It doesn’t work like this. He either naturally is into it or he isn’t. It’s better to observe how he acts and move on right away. If he really wanted to call and meet and see you, he would. You wouldn’t need to ask for it. That’s not something you need to fight for.

It was smart to move on. That’s your “speaking up”. Asking a man for more attention kind of doesn’t fall into “speaking up” in my opinion

Bottom line: good for you not to hang on to him. Smart move. Next!

It also seems this guy wanted to hide behind text and not jump on video chats or follow through with an in person meeting. That's a red flag.

I think you did the right thing. I've been stood up before by guys who didn't even call to tell me they couldn't make it. To me, that's a sign they're not really interested.

I agree with what have been said about him not showing a lot of interest but what if the guy has something like social anxiety.
Does he mention something this kind?

Well after some thought. maybe it was a bit of a tantrum

He didn't necessarily cancel... he asked to move the time back. I could have pushed the time back but I immediately assumed that he was rejecting me or not interested.

As for the call, he did video chat me (or would) upon asking, and it was clear that he was uncomfortable, but he was trying to make concessions for me and I totally ignored it. My fear of rejection again led me to think that something was wrong that I had to ask. I didn't take into consideration that he made concessions for my needs... twice.

My Dad (former actual pimp) drilled into me that a man will take what a woman gives him even if he doesn't want it, so I was thinking that my asking = begging and that his concession had a string attached... not good.

...and I had no right to do the "maybe we should just be friends" thing out of the blue because he didn't call. I had a fleeting thought that he may have not been feeling well (he does have migraines) but got so "stuck" that I disregarded all of the right stuff and just what I wanted / needed at the time.

I so wish I would have politely asked what happened instead of giving him the "Integrity is important to me speech..."

Needless to say... I pushed him away. I totally get it. Too much too fast.

I really WANT a decent relationship but I'm so terrified of them that I sabatoge. I let him know what I needed and he was trying. My "three strikes and you're out" mentality cost me a decent guy.

Thankfully, I have a therapy session tomorrow...

It would be great for you to discuss it in therapy

I had a friend who had a similar thing go on. She kept setting plans to chat and then meet and the guy wouldnt call but would text her an excuse. He wanted flirtatious texting and chatting but not video chatting and not meeting. He would make plans to meet and the day of a myriad of excuses. He did in fact also say he had last minute visitation with his kids and couldnt see her. He also said he had a work thing pop up, a sick relative and other assorted excuses. Turns out he hadnt officially ended it with his ex and he was texting with other girls online when my friend thought it was just her. Thankfully she cut him off and blocked him so she didnt see his excuses. I think you should do the same...imo.

It’s possible he is married too.

Come think of it I was once asked out by a guy I knew in a community, he wasn’t a stranger but I only knew him superficially. He asked me out but only wanted to text, not call, and texted at odd times and only during the week and then he wanted to set a date on weekdays in the evenings and late evenings, not on the weekend. Then he asked where would I want to go on a date and I suggested this one public park that also had a coffee place near by, he instead said he’d like to come over rather than going on a date. Hm

I told him that this arrangement won’t work for me and cut it off. Later I found out he had a live in long term girlfriend the entire time he was contacting me and asking me for dates .

So trust your guts

It's good you're considering your own reactions and that you're looking at each side.

I still think that you should trust your initial reaction to cut ties. There is something fishy going on with him. And like it's stated above, he could be hiding something.

I agree. Trust your guts.
I know it’s harder for some people than others, I’m very similar to you in these cases, I tend to doubt and look for any kind of excuse and looking at myself, as you, in case I could be the cause for another person behaviour.

But, said that, looking back, my guts often are showing me the best path for me, sometimes I wanted to hear them and other times, I didn’t.
But, they tend to be faithful to me.

You will find the right person.

I had something similar happen which is why I started freaking out a little BUT I'm also Codependent and want to control EVERYTHING.

I can't make him pay for the sins of others, and he WOULD video chat me whenever I would ask. I'm now asking myself if I ignored that part and melted down because he didn't do what I wanted on my terms...

BUT he could be playing games. I have no idea. He told me pretty early on that he wasn't casually dating - that he wants a wife. I would hope at this age he wouldn't lie about that...

It's the not knowing. I've been the fool in one relationship too many, so I want to protect myself, but I don't want to push a good guy away either.

I'm a magnet for Narcs, and don't trust my "picker". Usually if I "spark" with a guy, he ends up being a total Narc. I can't do that again.

How do you know?

Even if things don't work out, I haven't lost anything... may have learned something.

I need to learn to balance over-trusting with "benefit of the doubt". He could be genuine and we just need to learn how to communicate with each other OR he could be hiding something (he's a little over an hour away).

Was I right in thinking... "If a guy really wants to see me, he will MAKE it happen... especially with over a week lead time" or could I have been more flexible and agreed to meet later?

It is early in the relationship, so could I have cleared up that while we don't need to talk live daily, it's better to NOT promise to call so I'm not disappointed or at least send a quick text if plans change? Is it too early for that?

We haven't really had a "deep" conversation. I've been careful not to share too much. I've had Narcs turn everything I've shared with them around on my and be really hurtful. I thought it may be best before going too deep, but would sharing some of where the meltdown comes from help with understanding or make me look psycho?

HOW DO I KNOW IF HE'S A NARC?!?!?! THAT'S MY BIGGEST FEAR... THE PATTERN

I think the issue might be that you have to ASK for a guy to talk to you or meet you.

I am not traditional at all and don’t believe women can’t show initiative. But in my experience men often avoid conflict and follow along if women want things but in the long run it never works. He has to really really want something for it to work. I’ve met women who proposed to men or asked him to propose. Sure in the modern world it’s fine but it never resulted in a good marriage because he wasn’t into it 100%, he just followed along. But eventually it’s not going to work.

In my experience if a man is into you for real, you’ll never have to ask him to call you or meet you etc sure emergency happens and you have to reschedule and he might have to cancel regardless how much he likes you, but it’s uncommon.

Having said that, when you proposed to meet and he said ok, it’s entirely possible he wasn’t even ready or interested but as it sadly common just went along with it. Women are much more direct saying no thanks, some men might agree to avoid an argument or just because but then try to get out of it. I am not trying to generalize but that’s what I repeatedly observed personally

When he promised to call, it was in response to your asking him to call you or was it his initiative? It seems like you were initiating things and he went along but then tried to get out of it. Was it ever his plan to talk snd meet? (except that one call).

I’d not share anything deep or personal before you even met and even when you meet, wait for a few dates and some emotional connection. There is no need to share anything deep with strangers. Talk about hobbies and books you like and places you travelled and job you do.

The key point is that SHE keeps setting plans. It should be red flag that he isn’t even interested.

He doesn't sound sufficiently reliable or interested to me.

But if you see something that you think you could have handled better, great! Learning is good.

Reading what you wrote, he did not sound very interested. It sounded like he had luke warm feelings, or was maybe just wanting to pass the time. He may have just been wanting to go slowly. But to say "I'll call you" and not keeping to that word (a few times), I'd have issues with that too, and it's unreliable. In terms of his daughter and the time issue, maybe he's just bad with making plans. Or maybe it was something else. There's not really any way of knowing. I think there are some things you can learn here too. It sounds like you're looking back and reflecting. It sounds like your past dating experiences are getting in the way of how you view people. You may want to work on this stuff in therapy before you date. Just my 2 cents. At the same time, trust your gut. Something seemed off.


He does not sound like a narc to me, from how you described. We definitely can't diagnose though.