[guy1111]

My wife is heading out to dinner with her girlfriends and it is triggering my abandonment issues. We just had our honeymoon and the dress she is wearing tonight is more revealing than what she wore on our night out.

My logical brain tells me, it's just a night out with the girls. She will be back soon. She just likes to dress up and look pretty. The bars are all closed for corona mandates. She wouldn't cheat on me.

I can't talk to her about my issues. I can't show any negative emotions. She will get mad and try to blame me for not trusting her. She doesn't understand how much it hurts and gives me anxiety. She has never sympathized with my issues. She always tries to turn it around on me.

I don't want to stuff it down and get depressed. I get so tired of working it out on my own. I can do it. I have all the tools. If I had the energy I could turn this situation around and feel even better and more confident than when I started the day. I'm just tired tonight. I feel so alone right now.

Any thoughts?

[KBMK]

Sorry you felt like that. I hope you can feel better...I think that it sounds like you love your wife and want her to be happy and have a good night with her friends, and it sucks that you feel pain from your past that taints that. Do you trust your wife? Can you show your negative emotions at a different time at all? I mean can you have a conversation about your feelings in general and if there's anything she can do to help that isn't constricting her? My ex would get very cold with me after I had been out with friends or away for any time, and it was something I would have wanted to have talked about and worked out...but probably not that night, if you get my point. If your wife is shutting you out and showing no sympathy for your issues, though, I would imagine that it would be genuinely difficult to trust her? Are you getting any help for your issues outside your marriage?

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by guy1111

I can't talk to her about my issues. I can't show any negative emotions. She will get mad and try to blame me for not trusting her. She doesn't understand how much it hurts and gives me anxiety. She has never sympathized with my issues. She always tries to turn it around on me.

I don't like this -- that she turns any issue you have with her around on you to be YOUR problem. That is deflection. She continues to take no responsibility for her own actions, and that leaves you with no validation, no voice, and no power within the relationship. She has all the power and control -- and you are left with no voice in the relationship.

I think it says something that she wore a more revealing dress out with her girlfriends -- the same old story -- she's looking for attention and validation from other men.

Any luck with couples therapy?

[Open Eyes]

Society is pretty hard on women overall. There are so many messages to women about how their looks can bring them power and give them relevance. There is a rather deep subconscious fear in many women that if they lose their looks they lose their power and relevance too and they can have a deep fear of abandonment attached to this deep message.

When men age they tend to look more distinguished, some even get more attractive as they get older. It's not the same for women. It sounds like your wife has a deep insecurity and she flirts and dresses up to get attention to let her know she is still desirable. She is dressing this way for herself and hoping to get attention so she can feel better about herself. She may be attractive enough for you, but she doesn't feel it for herself and this is something she does to help her feel it.

This very challenge in women is SO HEAVILY MARKETED it's just incredible.

[divine1966]

Personally I continue going out and doing things with girlfriends and don’t intend to stop just because I am married. I had boyfriends who were jealous. That’s why they are exes. “Revealing” is relative. What is that she is revealing that you don’t want her to reveal? Body parts? Where is the limit of how much you want her to cover up? And why?

Personally I am not a flirty type whatsoever and I have girlfriends for female companionship and friendship and not for flirting lol Some women stop their friendships because they got married and now their husbands became their universe. Some men like it. Not my kind of men. It’s 2020. Not 1820. Women’s place isn’t just in the kitchen bare feet. Maintaining friendships and hobbies and pursuing careers is all important to women nowadays. There is more to life than having a husband

I know you don’t like that she talks to single men a lot, that’s I totally understand. But you don’t like her spending time with women either?

What exactly do you have issue with? How she dresses? Where she goes? I am confused. If you don’t trust your wife, i think marriage is over. If my husband suspected I will cheat, I’d prefer he divorced me. If there is no trust, you have nothing else. You two are just not a good match.

[Have Hope]

@divine1966, my understanding is his issue is she wore a more revealing dress out with her girlfriends than the dress she wore on their honeymoon. He is not upset about her going out with girlfriends. He is upset about the reoccurring issue that his wife frequently seeks and needs sexual attention from other men. This has been an ongoing issue since his first thread. I never got that he was controlling of her in any way or that he doesn't fully trust her. What I get is that it is hurtful and insulting that she needs all this other attention and does things to get it from men, and particularly single men when she is a married woman. And the dress on her evening out with girlfriends is just another instance of this.

[divine1966]

Yeah I don’t know. Something just doesn’t look right to me. Why compare what dress is more or less revealing. It rubs me the wrong way. I guess I just don’t understand this marriage. After just one year of marriage there is daily grievance about something. Now it’s a revealing dress then it’s something else. It’s not just OP is dissatisfied, she is as well. Life is too short and fragile to be that miserable in a new marriage. Well any marriage. But especially a new one. I just don’t understand it I guess. I should bow out

[sarahsweets]

Aside from the emotional issues the OP mentioned, I’m not sure I understand what bothers you about her dressing up. I love to dress up. I love to wear dresses and I love makeup and looking good because it makes me feel good. Undoubtedly I’ve had days that started out very bleak but then I’ve fixed myself up and worn a pretty dress and my whole attitude changed. I like to look nice for me. When I do go out without my husband I’ll wear whatever I want to. I don’t intentionally try and be sexy. Sometimes the dresses I wear have plunging necklines. Sometimes they are on the shorter side. I do not crave attention from other men or want to be the center of attention wherever I go. I’m not talking about all the emotional stuff or the fact that the OP can’t talk to his wife, or that he thinks she looked less attractive when they went out vs when she went out with her friends. I’m only talking about the way she chooses to dress.

[Bat_Orchid90]

Why did you get married if you have these concerns?.... not trying to be rude, Im asking genuinely if the marriage itself was a security for you but it is still not enough and you still think she may leave? I think it’s unfair to say she is deflecting onto you when YOU have the abandonment struggles... I am going to assume she’s tried to work with you before, based off of what you said but I can also imagine it must be frustrating and unfair to have to change everything you do, say, dress because you think she may be cheating on you..... it seems really unhealthy...on both ends. I hope you both can get the help you need best of luck.

[Have Hope]

The OP can speak for himself, but like I wrote above, I believe (based on all past threads) that this issue has to do with her consistently needing, seeking and soliciting male sexual attention in a number of ways. There of course is nothing wrong with wanting to dress up and look good... the issue the OP has is that his wife constantly seeks out male sexual attention and does things to draw that attention to herself and it's bothersome, which I can fully understand. If my husband constantly did things to make women want him or to gain their sexual interest and desire, I would feel sick to my stomach. HIs wife also gives him very little voice in the relationship to air his grievances or to express his feelings.

I also understand how hard it is to just give up and walk away from a new marriage. I've had problems in my own marriage and it was sooooo hard to think I would have to leave him within the first year of our marriage together. I took my vows very seriously, and it seemed very early to give up so soon. However, I did come to a point where it was so intolerable that I told him I was divorcing him, and then things started to turn around right after that. We still deal with some issues, but I also see him willing and able to make positive changes as I bring them up and as I confront each issue with him. It's not so easy to walk away from a commitment just like that, and sometimes it's not so black and white.

[divine1966]

It’s really hard to speculate why she dressed up certain way when she went out. I think it’s presumptuous to assume women dress up because they feel bad about themselves or don’t think of themselves as attractive or are looking for male attention. I think I am attractive but I still like nice clothes, liked it at 20 and like it at 54. I do my hair and nails etc my grandma dressed up at 86. I was raised to present myself well. I can’t care less about men. Now of course there are other issues in this marriage but what kind of dress she wore isn’t or at least shouldn’t be an issue unless perhaps she must dress certain way for religious reasons or she dresses up in completely embarrassing manner

This marriage is troubled no doubt but I think focus should be on other issues not on what she wears and what is or isn’t revealing.

[Have Hope]

@guy1111, how are you feeling now? I hope you are feeling supported here. I get and understand that her wearing a more revealing dress on an evening out with girlfriends (when she did not with you) triggered your anxieties.

I wish you could have an honest conversation with her about your feelings without her turning it all around on you. What's going on with couples therapy?

[guy1111]

Thank you all for your replies! I already feel a little better. You are kind for taking time to listen. I will write back when I have time. I've been depressed all weekend because I had to stuff my emotions. So I'm tired right now. Hope you all have a great day/night.

[guy1111]

Originally Posted by KBMK

Sorry you felt like that. I hope you can feel better...I think that it sounds like you love your wife and want her to be happy and have a good night with her friends, and it sucks that you feel pain from your past that taints that. Do you trust your wife? Can you show your negative emotions at a different time at all? I mean can you have a conversation about your feelings in general and if there's anything she can do to help that isn't constricting her? My ex would get very cold with me after I had been out with friends or away for any time, and it was something I would have wanted to have talked about and worked out...but probably not that night, if you get my point. If your wife is shutting you out and showing no sympathy for your issues, though, I would imagine that it would be genuinely difficult to trust her? Are you getting any help for your issues outside your marriage?

I appreciate your words. Ya, I get that you wouldn't want to talk it out while she was mad at you for going out. Too bad you never got to talk it out. I mean, I don't want her to be miserable and never have fun. I get that most people would find it nagging. I just think this kind of stuff could be worked out and come to a compromise. In the 3 years we've been together, she has never budged on this issue.

I admit I used to come to her angry about stuff like this, but even she has admitted that I've done a 180. In fact, in the last year, I've only once lost my cool over it. But she carries on like she's never done anything wrong and has no need to compromise because it's all my fault and all in my head and I'm just being controlling.

[guy1111]

Originally Posted by Have Hope

I don't like this -- that she turns any issue you have with her around on you to be YOUR problem. That is deflection. She continues to take no responsibility for her own actions, and that leaves you with no validation, no voice, and no power within the relationship. She has all the power and control -- and you are left with no voice in the relationship.

I think it says something that she wore a more revealing dress out with her girlfriends -- the same old story -- she's looking for attention and validation from other men.

Any luck with couples therapy?

I appreciate your opinion! I know you have heard alot of my past stuff. Just like men know exactly what they are doing when they are gawking at a woman in public, I think women know what they are inviting when they wear revealing clothing. Men can control themselves if they beleive in being a gentleman. I think women can at least think twice about what they wear when they leave their husband at home. Or at least run it by me so I know she thought about me for one second. Even if she knows I don't like it, at least I can't say she didn't care to ask. I have a lot of good advice on clothes because I know when a woman looks classy and well put together. I am a dude with a pulse. A lot of times she wears really cute stuff that is classy and appropriate for the day that doesn't trigger me.

[guy1111]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Yeah I don’t know. Something just doesn’t look right to me. Why compare what dress is more or less revealing. It rubs me the wrong way. I guess I just don’t understand this marriage. After just one year of marriage there is daily grievance about something. Now it’s a revealing dress then it’s something else. It’s not just OP is dissatisfied, she is as well. Life is too short and fragile to be that miserable in a new marriage. Well any marriage. But especially a new one. I just don’t understand it I guess. I should bow out

I appreciate your honesty! I admit it preoccupies my thoughts. This particular incident stood out because our night out and this night were so close together. She complained that she was too cold on our anniversary, but she can stay out till 12:30am in a low cut short dress at a bar no problem? I know it sounds whiney, I honestly have a lot of good things tobsay about her. This is the one area of the relationship that drives me to anxiety and depression.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Society is pretty hard on women overall. There are so many messages to women about how their looks can bring them power and give them relevance. There is a rather deep subconscious fear in many women that if they lose their looks they lose their power and relevance too and they can have a deep fear of abandonment attached to this deep message.

When men age they tend to look more distinguished, some even get more attractive as they get older. It's not the same for women. It sounds like your wife has a deep insecurity and she flirts and dresses up to get attention to let her know she is still desirable. She is dressing this way for herself and hoping to get attention so she can feel better about herself. She may be attractive enough for you, but she doesn't feel it for herself and this is something she does to help her feel it.

This very challenge in women is SO HEAVILY MARKETED it's just incredible.

I think this is rather an outdated idea. Joanna Lumley being one example.

Personally ageism of all types disgusts me.

But certainly many women are ''insecure'' about ''losing their looks'' even when they are ''still'' very attractive.

Everything like that which is HEAVILY MARKETED turns me right off, and I reject it.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by Have Hope

I don't like this -- that she turns any issue you have with her around on you to be YOUR problem. That is deflection. She continues to take no responsibility for her own actions, and that leaves you with no validation, no voice, and no power within the relationship. She has all the power and control -- and you are left with no voice in the relationship.

I think it says something that she wore a more revealing dress out with her girlfriends -- the same old story -- she's looking for attention and validation from other men.

Any luck with couples therapy?

I agree. I have never worn a more revealing dress when going out with girlfriends. Anyway, if a man ''wanted'' me for my boobs...

[divine1966]

I think notion that men are wild beasts just waiting to ravish random women because their dresses are revealing is a bit out there. Just not the case. At 16 maybe. But even then it’s not girls fault if guys are this way. Also saying that women dress certain way to get men to look at them is really outdated.

I don’t believe a woman needs to “run by” her husband what she should wear. Nope. Ain’t happening. I love my husband dearly but I’d never thought of asking him what I should be wearing for an outing and if my clothes is too revealing.

Some of the things you say kind of sound so old fashioned. Mind you I am not parading myself around in revealing clothes but it’s at no point men’s decision what I should be wearing.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by guy1111

I appreciate your opinion! I know you have heard alot of my past stuff. Just like men know exactly what they are doing when they are gawking at a woman in public, I think women know what they are inviting when they wear revealing clothing. Men can control themselves if they beleive in being a gentleman. I think women can at least think twice about what they wear when they leave their husband at home. Or at least run it by me so I know she thought about me for one second. Even if she knows I don't like it, at least I can't say she didn't care to ask. I have a lot of good advice on clothes because I know when a woman looks classy and well put together. I am a dude with a pulse. A lot of times she wears really cute stuff that is classy and appropriate for the day that doesn't trigger me.

Women most certainly know what they’re doing when dressing in more revealing clothing, MANY women still do this today, and men most certainly DO gawk. None of that is outdated and happens every single day.

I get cat calls and gawking all the time from men when wearing a short skirt and heels. My husband now doesn’t want me to get out of the car at night at the 7/11 convenience store because of this fact.

You have every right to your feelings, and your feelings are valid. These are not outdated notions.

Your wife should be more respectful of you as her husband and shouldn’t be out with girlfriends wearing revealing clothing trying to get attention from men.

[guy1111]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

Aside from the emotional issues the OP mentioned, I’m not sure I understand what bothers you about her dressing up. I love to dress up. I love to wear dresses and I love makeup and looking good because it makes me feel good. Undoubtedly I’ve had days that started out very bleak but then I’ve fixed myself up and worn a pretty dress and my whole attitude changed. I like to look nice for me. When I do go out without my husband I’ll wear whatever I want to. I don’t intentionally try and be sexy. Sometimes the dresses I wear have plunging necklines. Sometimes they are on the shorter side. I do not crave attention from other men or want to be the center of attention wherever I go. I’m not talking about all the emotional stuff or the fact that the OP can’t talk to his wife, or that he thinks she looked less attractive when they went out vs when she went out with her friends. I’m only talking about the way she chooses to dress.

I think that's great that you express yourself through the way you look. I feel really good, too, when we go out on a hot day to an outdoor event and she's got her cutoff short shorts and a skimpy shirt. That's great! I also like to dress nice when I go out. I like to dress up for job interviews, etc. It makes me feel more confident. I don't want to start a post war on how women should dress. Everyone is different.

What bothers me is that in certain situations it causes me anxiety because it triggers me into feeling like I did when my ex wife would cheat on me. She would go out to bars and come home drunk and admit to it. She cheated on me when she went on a cruise with her girlfriends. She's cheated on me at a party we were both at and I caught her. I tried to explain this to my wife now and she has zero sympathy. She has the same attitude, that no man is gonna control how I dress. Which is fine in a normal situation, but I admit that I'm not normal and I'm in therapy and I'm trying to get better so I don't go into full panic and I just need a little validation. It's so hard to just sit still and smile and say "have a good night".

[guy1111]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Society is pretty hard on women overall. There are so many messages to women about how their looks can bring them power and give them relevance. There is a rather deep subconscious fear in many women that if they lose their looks they lose their power and relevance too and they can have a deep fear of abandonment attached to this deep message.

When men age they tend to look more distinguished, some even get more attractive as they get older. It's not the same for women. It sounds like your wife has a deep insecurity and she flirts and dresses up to get attention to let her know she is still desirable. She is dressing this way for herself and hoping to get attention so she can feel better about herself. She may be attractive enough for you, but she doesn't feel it for herself and this is something she does to help her feel it.

This very challenge in women is SO HEAVILY MARKETED it's just incredible.

Yes, I have no personal experience with this issue but I have read about it. Body dysmorphia, I believe. I know there isn't much more I can do other than be as supportive as possible. My compromise I made with myself (since we don't talk about it) is to try and compliment her looks whenever she leaves the house even if I don't agree with what she is wearing. If it triggers me, I try and focus on whatever doesn't trigger me and compliment that, such as her makeup, hair, shoes, nails, etc.

I wish she could do the same for me.

[guy1111]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Personally I continue going out and doing things with girlfriends and don’t intend to stop just because I am married. I had boyfriends who were jealous. That’s why they are exes. “Revealing” is relative. What is that she is revealing that you don’t want her to reveal? Body parts? Where is the limit of how much you want her to cover up? And why?

Personally I am not a flirty type whatsoever and I have girlfriends for female companionship and friendship and not for flirting lol Some women stop their friendships because they got married and now their husbands became their universe. Some men like it. Not my kind of men. It’s 2020. Not 1820. Women’s place isn’t just in the kitchen bare feet. Maintaining friendships and hobbies and pursuing careers is all important to women nowadays. There is more to life than having a husband

I know you don’t like that she talks to single men a lot, that’s I totally understand. But you don’t like her spending time with women either?

What exactly do you have issue with? How she dresses? Where she goes? I am confused. If you don’t trust your wife, i think marriage is over. If my husband suspected I will cheat, I’d prefer he divorced me. If there is no trust, you have nothing else. You two are just not a good match.

You are right. Revealing is relative, thats why answering your first questions would be futile.

To answer your other questions, no I don't like the women she hung out with that night. I don't like the women who are single and take a married woman to a bar to go dancing without her husband who would happily go out as a group with them and some guy friends. Women who make plans to go to the movies and somehow mysteriously end up back at the bar. Women who say they are having girls night out and some how other husbands and male cousins, friends, etc. somehow all get the memo except me.

I don't think she's cheating. I think she is putting up a wall and shutting me out.

[divine1966]

Hhmm yeah now when you share more details it looks like there is more to it than her going out with women. I think that’s what happens when details aren’t provided (not like it’s possible to share everything, I get it). But if you said she goes to bars dancing with men and women and doesn’t invite you, I’d have a different thought about it. I thought more of like I go with my girlfriends places. On Sunday while my husband was in finally opened gym I went with girlfriends exercise walking in a park and then breakfast at a dinner, my athletic clothes is probably on a tight side (revealing?) for comfort but I sure don’t have body dysmorphia or was there to get men to look at me hahaha Now what you described is different

Going dancing at the bar with a group of males and females is quite different than going out with girlfriends. It sounds that she didn’t want you there. It sucks. I’d be very offended if my husband went dancing with other women without me. I can’t even imagine. It’s not the same as going to meet with his buddies to play soccer at a day time (example)

I’d not blame single women for “taking” her anywhere. Most of my girlfriends are actually single as widowed or divorced or never married but they can’t “take” me anywhere where I don’t want to go. I for example don’t drink like at all and neither do they and I don’t go dancing, well neither do they but if they asked me to join them at bars for drinking purpose, I’d not go. Your wife has a free will. She goes because she wants to. She is an adult and can’t be taken places.

Honestly I am not sure if this situation will ever improve as she doesn’t seem the right woman for you. Sometimes people are just wrong for us. I was in a relationship with someone who drank, I thought I could change him. Silly me. Solution wasn’t to get drunks to stop drinking. Solution was to go for people who don’t drink. I am long gone and am married (to someone who doesn’t do any substances) but that previous person still drinks.

What do you get out of this marriage? Is there any positive side to it? It sounds very unhappy for me. I am sorry You’d be much happier with a different type of woman

[sarahsweets]

I think the reason I feel strongly about this is more of a general thing. In the op and other posts you didn’t say anything about dancing and hanging out with other men. I do not go searching each posters profile to see if they have written about the situation they are currently posting about. I do not look for clues about an op I read the post I’m looking at and share what I can. Without the details regarding dancing with other men I felt strongly about women being able to dress as they see fit. Like I said, I like looking nice. I don’t tend to wear extremely revealing things but I would guess based on some opinions here and different styles people have, that they might feel that my style is “to attract men, have power, seek attention, or fear that I’m getting old and won’t be attractive.” It isn’t. I dress for me, I feel good when I look nice. The idea of blaming women for men’s bad behavior and the sexualization of our bodies is not fair. It harkens back to the idea that women are sluts and men are studs. Men should be taught that THEY need to control themselves and they are not uncontrollable sex maniacs that can’t help themselves when a pretty woman walks by. I don’t know if I’m considered good looking or not but I’ve been cat called before. You know what I do when that happens? I turn around and give them the finger. Or if it’s something that regularly happens by the same men in the same place I might go talk to them and tell them how uncomfortable I am. Worse case scenario I’ll talk to their supervisor. I imagine that it would curtail them, because they must be human enough to hear when someone is uncomfortable and try and fix it.

As far as the OP goes I agree with @divine1966. It is not ok to go out with girlfriends and other men dancing and drinking. Of course she had an agenda anyone can see that. She doesn’t seem to have any regard for her marriage or husband.
With that in mind I wonder why the marriage went forward with the marriage? I disagree that the OP has abandonment issues. Who wouldn’t be upset with that situation? To me, someone with abandonment issues is completely codependent on their partner with intense jealousy and behavior that may be irrational, unwarranted or full of drama and emotions, and wanting to control their partner.

To the op (guy) I don’t think you have abandonment issues. I don’t think you are being fair to yourself. You have legitimate concerns and I think she may have walked the cheating line already. Please don’t blame yourself. She is totally invalidating your feelings and trying to flip the script on you and manipulate you into thinking there is something wrong with you. I don’t think couples counseling will help because she already doesn’t see that she’s wrong. I do think you would benefit from therapy if you aren’t in it already. A good relationship therapist should help you work out appropriate strategies to cope with this and decision making skills.