Describing others as toxic people

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Originally Posted by Molinit People cannot treat you badly unless you let them. They can't abuse you unless you let them. They can't take advantage of you unless you let them. When you are healthy, you don't attract these people and should one slip past the boundaries by being a little less obvious, you identify and remove them from your life much earlier. Just calling people toxic or narcissistic without you taking responsibility for how they got past your healthy boundaries to treat you badly or abuse you is a victim type of position. Get healthy and these people can't hurt you.

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Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins There is SO much wrong with this . . .

Actually it is not wrong for all people though it is for some. The one thing WRONG with the statement is that people can treat you bad. The only thing actually is that healthy people don't accept bad treatment while unhealthy people due to abuse or whatever, never learned how to counter it.

I am sure I encountered my share of bullies & "toxic" people growing up since my parents were really VERY dysfunctional....BUT the way I responded kept them from continuing to try & my mom never successfully made me feel bad for responding to some of the ways she tried to manipulate sympathy.

I am sure that the personalities we were born with along with the environment we live in contribute to how we deflect those kinds of people who touch out lives. Seriously, I fought hard against my now ex who thought he could control what I did. Simple ultimatum.....if you don't like the goals or plans I told you about before the wedding & gave you a chance to back out then....you can get the #@[[ out now. I don't play games with abusive people or even behaviors that could be construed that way by others. Always had boundaries but they have gotten more FIRM with age & good therapy.

Only reason I ended up staying in my bad marriage so long was because I got lost in my career & really just kept cleaning up the messes he made financially while I was handling my career. It was when that ended I finally got a good picture of just how bad it was but then was trapped in it financially while still fighting him like I always did

I take personal offense to this distinction that people who are abused frequently are unhealthy. Great offense. I am not unhealthy myself, or at least I am not unhealthy in several ways, and I have dealt with plenty of abuse and bullying in my life. I am about as level headed and grounded at the healthiest person alive. Healthy people can certainly be abused and mistreated too. And honestly, how many truly "healthy" people are there in the world? Mentally and emotionally? Not many! Most everyone I know has some sort of mental or emotional issue, and I know a lot of people. This forum has how many thousands of members? And all of us suffer from mental health issues. This thread is becoming very judgmental of those who suffer from abuse or bullying, imo. I think it should be closed.

Often we do not see ourselves as others see us. Whether we are offended by that or not, it is just a fact of life for EVERYONE.

Ever read medical records or psych records? Even the professionals don't see us the way we see ourselves.

I can see how some may disagree with certain opinions. Yet people have a right to their opinions. It doesn’t equate to a personal attack.

I think it’s one of those words used to describe a person who continuously behaves badly and to a point that it’s healthier to avoid interacting with them as much as possible.

That’s like interacting with someone who has AUD (alcohol use disorder)I don’t care to be exposed to their mood swings and constant poor decisions. I have seen enough of that. Yet I do respect the effort to admit there is a problem and an effort made to change it. Yet that means also owning up to the bad behaviors directed at others who do not deserve it. Some with this disorder become career victims and constantly blame others.

Strangers on a forum that I have never met do not know me from a hole in the wall. Only the people who have met me in person know how I really am. As with all and any of us. No one can read people that well just from texts on a page all about their problems in life. It's only one small portion of the person, and is not the whole person. We need to keep that in mind at all times.

Many people are conditioned to believe they deserve bad treatment. Many were raised to blame themselves. “If only I didn’t do or say XYZ, he’d treat me better. “ We want to be careful not to tell people that they should always blame themselves. Many people also believe that bad treatment isn’t that bad because that’s all they know, so let’s not tell people they must accept bad treatment because they aren’t perfect themselves or “it isn’t that bad”.

Sure there are people who enjoy to play victims and don’t take responsibility for anything in life, it’s always someone else’s fault.

But let’s not assume it’s everybody. Generalizations and stereotyping aren’t helpful for anyone.

I think there are two parallel conversations in the thread and they are both driven with different codes. That’s why there will never converge.

This matter is very complicate. It has lots of implications of different nature. From genetic to ethical ones. It may be treat in a general sense or conversely, attending to specific cases. And I think this is what is going on.

Some of us, and correct me if I’m wrong, are referring to a overuse of words such as, toxic, vampires, narcissists, psychopaths, you name it.
And we have given reasons as to why we disagree to use these words to address or discard people and wonder what take others to use them so much often, I mean, which possible causes maybe behind it other that the fact that they have been put on the spotlight by self-help authors to do their business.

Some of these conclusions may be:

- They are trendy words.

- A psychological need to make the other responsible for what it may happen to us and we can’t handle at a point in time.
I understand it’s human but it’s a runaway through the false door.

- They are labels that discard or belittle the whole person. And it even might ruin a person’s reputation. So, it’s worthy to use them with caution.

- The big majority of people have behaviours that might bother another person. So, unless we are Mother Therèse, we are always gonna screw up things with someone. As a punctual behaviour or as one of our own personal characteristic that preventing us from fitting in with some people.

Then, there are many of you who are putting specific examples of people who have hurt you or taken advantages of you. Sometimes, even to a point of developing PTSD.
I don’t see anyone has denied that fact.
Noone is denying that there are people who abuse others. There are little kids who have even died because they have been repeatedly abused. Women, elderly people, little kids and dependent people are the most vulnerable in this case.
These cases are a minority. If I repeatedly see MANY people in my life or who has been part of it in the past, as individuals who abused me or wanted to abuse me, I saw them as a negative influence, because they failed me or I think they are fake and were never friends...if they are MANY, again, there’s something that is not working. And statistically, it can’t be the whole world.

@Alive99, in relation to your reply to @Molinit, aren’t you again making assumptions about another person’s background or experience, only because, (s)he thinks and sees things in a different way?

Sometimes people are bullied because of conditions they have no control over. My husband has been bullied in life due to Tourette’s and OCD. No he isn’t a victim moping around. He is successful and well adjusted and he never allowed it to break him. But he had some experiences that are quite disturbing. Lets not tell victims of bullying that they are “targeting” bullies by calling it what it is. Let’s not tell him it’s his fault he was bullied or that he was bullied because he is unhealthy. He is healthier than the bullies! That’s for sure!

As about abuse victims. Many abused children choose abusive partners. Many children growing up in abusive marriages choose abusive partners. Sure they should work on getting better but that’s not that easy for some. We can blame them for making bad choices but it’s not that simple. Children of alcoholics marry alcoholics and then their children marry alcoholics until maybe someone breaks the pattern... or not...etc etc so it’s entire chain to blame. Not just one person.

It’s easy to place blame. Easy to generalize and oversimplify. But it’s not all black and white. Life is more complicated than that

Very wise statement eskie! . 🔨 😉👍

And many people here have been victims of abuse. MANY. I think people should be very careful around allotting any kind of blame and pointing fingers at anyone when it comes to abuse victims or victims of any kind. I find this whole thread to be about pointing fingers, rather than having any kind of compassionate stance towards anyone for any issues they may face. People who like to judge and point fingers are usually very insecure in how they see themselves and need to find fault with others.

136 responses. Wows. You can describe someone as toxic for you. It shouldn’t even be a discussion.

Thank you. I agree.

Technically, yes, perhaps a minority by sheer numbers, but according to several sources I quickly looked at, a full third of women report having been the victim of abuse in an intimate relationship, and nearly 50 percent report emotional abuse. That is just in intimate relationships - doesn't even factor in other people like schoolmates, people we work with, caregivers, authority figures, other family members . . .

Not so sure it is as much of a minority as one might seem to think.

You also, again, seem to be saying that if it is happening to you multiple times, then you are somehow to blame ("something that is not working" appears to blame the victim). Maybe it is a character flaw in the victim . . . but where did that character flaw originate? Unfortunately, it is often the response to previous exposure to . . . "toxic" people and situations. Thus, the cycle of "violence" (which doesn't have to be physical).

Perhaps the bigger issue might be that, IF someone lets us know that their interactions with us are not healthy for them, i.e. "toxic", then our personal responsibility is to either actively work to figure out and correct our personal attitudes and actions if possible, OR to respect that person's need for distance, even if we don't agree with their assessment - we honestly can't always know what it is about ourselves that clashes with another person and is, for them, harmful. That doesn't make them wrong. Their experience is very real to them and may come from something we don't fully (and they may not fully) understand.

I just ran into this situation. My husband died from COVID a few weeks ago. He had been long estranged from his family of origin because, as a group and even as individuals, they truly were "toxic" in his life and he had finally been able to separate from them. Last week, completely unsolicited and without any warning, two of those family members took it upon themselves to show up on my doorstep. It was all about them and their odd way of seeking absolution I guess; it was entirely NOT about my husband to be quite honest. Those people do not and will not ever see how "toxic" they have honestly always been to my husband. It's not even gaslighting because they never have been able to see it for themselves. They would tell you they are normal, loving people, but they are completely unable to see their own toxicity. I was flabbergasted that they were choosing to invade my home and my privacy uninvited, disrespecting my husband's clear choice to separate from them, and attempting to manipulate me just the way they had always done to my husband during his life. These ARE toxic people by nature; it became blatantly clear to me when they were trying their same garbage on me as they've always tried on each other. Fortunately, I don't suffer a childhood wound from them like my husband did, so I am able to set boundaries and keep them away (so long as they don't try that foolishness again).

Some people -- unfortunately, far too many people -- truly are dangerous and damaging to others around them - some of them chronically so. Having that internal radar for those who can damage your spirit is a matter of self-care and preservation.

The word “you” in my post is meant for anyone reading, no one in particular.

That’s your opinion.

I think that there are people who grab that label for small stuff and small disagreements.

I know I use it to describe very unhealthy behaviors. Mostly about my sister who has behaved so badly right in front of people it’s actually embarrassing. Actually toxic is rather mild in comparison to what terms I have heard others use tbh.

I think labeling someone toxic can be seen in a few ways. When it comes to someone who has been abused multiple times and they are in a relationship with a manipulative person who abuses them then those people are toxic. I don’t think it matters if the person calling the other person toxic has been in abusive relationships their whole life or if they are a completely healthy person that somehow stumbled into a relationship with somebody who is toxic. It’s a very personal label in my opinion. At least when it comes to experience.

I think people who generally use the word toxic all over the place for anything that happens that is negative, is different than someone Who may have been in multiple abusive situations.

I struggle with the idea of people tolerating abuse and then other people saying they are allowing something to happen. A distinction has to be made as far as people that have been abused, and people that just seem to have no understanding of how to have healthy relationships.

Haven’t we all had that friend who constantly complains about everything? Work, school, personal relationships, romantic relationships: all they do is complain and talk about wanting to solve the problem yet somehow stay in those relationships or situation, not really wanting to change anything? In those rare circumstances I guess I would say that person sort of feeds off of the idea of toxic people. Sometimes these people will use the word toxic to rationalize unacceptable behavior.

But that has nothing to do with the many people who have legitimately been in abusive relationships. Or grown-up in a situation that has taught them that abuse is tolerable. That abuse is part of a romantic relationship. That abuse should be an acceptable form of relating to a partner.

I’m surprised at people who are saying that toxic people are more rare or maybe a result of the person calling them toxic. Don’t you think most people have had an experience with a toxic person? Or at least a person who is toxic and not necessarily abused you? Hasnt everyone experienced the person in the office who is a **** stirrer and stirs the pot in order to feed off the drama?
Maybe not I suppose but I think if there was some kind of scientific study done you would find that most people have had some kind of an experience like that.

I also think if there were some kind of scientific study done, you would find that there’s large swath of people that at one time or another have been in abusive relationships.
And if you were to dig deeper you may find that those who have been in at least one abusive relationship have grown up with abuse, experienced trauma, have PTSD or are in treatment for a mental health issue. That’s not to say that anyone with a mental health issue will always be in abusive relationships. I don’t want to imply that mental illness somehow makes you incapable of healthy relationships.

So I think the word toxic can apply in the general sense to a person that you have interacted with that behaves in a way that brings an air of negativity wherever they are.
At the same time I do struggle with the overuse of words such as toxic, narcissist, narcissism, etc. specifically when it comes to narcissism I think some people will just throw that term out without truly understanding what it is like to experience a relationship with a narcissist. To me it’s like everyone saying they are bipolar. Something happens with their moods or they get upset and then happy and they say they are bipolar or they say
“I’m so bipolar today “.

Ultimately what does it matter if someone uses the word toxic frequently in their life? It’s really not my business to judge whether they are genuinely in a relationship with a toxic person, or if it is somehow their fault for tolerating that behavior. It is not my business to judge an experience that somebody else has. I know I’ve judged people At one time or another and I regret that. Only because I try to use compassion and empathy when it comes to forming relationships or interacting in general with other people. So when the mirror turns and faces me and I realize that I have judged somebody, especially if it ends up being unfairly, I try to reevaluate my behavior and determine what it is about the other person that made me feel I had a right to judge their experiences.

A phrase or quote that I made up is this: “toxic people are like toxic waste- they both need to get dumped. “

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So according to @sarahsweets definition, I am also toxic because I've been in an abusive marriage with a partner who has been manipulative, and since I have had multiple abusive partners before him? That's not right at all.

According to Psychology Today:

“Toxic” is obviously not a formal psychological term but rather is descriptive of how people often feel when dealing with certain individuals. Toxic describes interactions where boundaries are often blurred, where individuals themselves and/or their behaviors are felt to be difficult, challenging, demanding, often adversarial. Toxic relationships are not fueled by mutual care and support but are often skewed to accommodate an individual’s needs and demands.

If we're going to continue to use the term, let's at least get the definition correct.

My husband has been the toxic one in this relationship, not myself. He has been difficult, challenging, demanding and adversarial, not me. So, I am not myself toxic - he has been toxic to me. Now wer'e in counseling and we're trying to resolve this and make the relationship healthier together. There's nothing toxic about that.

My goodness. What I see here is people who like to use that word to describe people upset and defending why they need to use that word. Use it if you like. It does say something to others when you are describing relationships to other people and person after person is described as abusive and "toxic." Until you fix what is in you that's attracting and allowing these people in your life, this will be your lot in life. Period. You do you. You can go to a million counselors trying to fix that other person. You will just be doing that with person after person until you fix the WHY this person is in your life.

According to the definition "toxic is a feeling". In that case, toxic may breed toxic feelings in each person in a relationship. We only KNOW our own feelings about someone else. Bottom line is, when continuous fighting exists in a relationship, there are issues on BOTH sides & each person most likely feels the other person is toxic if they choose to define it that way.

I know before I left my marriage I am sure my now ex "felt" I was just as "toxic" to him as he was "toxic" to me....even though he didn't want the marriage to end & I did. Many times "toxic breeds toxic" & then the whole relationship gets destroyed. When I was dealing with that relationship, I saw that my response to his kind of abuse was an abuse in my own way retaliating to it. The personalities of each person involved basically determines the kind of response will occur. I am a fighter, don't mess with me kind of person so when I "feel" someone is toxic, I used to respond in my own like manner as my defense. Now I walk away because I don't want or need those kind of people in my life & they are firm boundaries now... most times cast in concrete

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Originally Posted by Have Hope So according to @sarahsweets definition, I am also toxic because I've been in an abusive marriage with a partner who has been manipulative, and since I have had multiple abusive partners before him? That's not right at all. According to Psychology Today: “Toxic” is obviously not a formal psychological term but rather is descriptive of how people often feel when dealing with certain individuals. Toxic describes interactions where boundaries are often blurred, where individuals themselves and/or their behaviors are felt to be difficult, challenging, demanding, often adversarial. Toxic relationships are not fueled by mutual care and support but are often skewed to accommodate an individual’s needs and demands. If we're going to continue to use the term, let's at least get the definition correct. My husband has been the toxic one in this relationship, not myself. He has been difficult, challenging, demanding and adversarial, not me. So, I am not myself toxic - he has been toxic to me. Now wer'e in counseling and we're trying to resolve this and make the relationship healthier together. There's nothing toxic about that.

Why would you think I think you are toxic? If I somehow typed that I’ll need to edit because that’s not what I meant at all

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So toxic is a feeling? I had not thought of it that way eskie. So basically people are sharing what social behaviors and types of individuals are too emotionally uncomfortable for them to be around or interact with.

I am thinking about this in terms of my older sister who insists on having all the control and power otherwise for her unless things go her way someone is bad. It’s all about HER feelings and drama otherwise she rages it has to be her way with everything according to her feelings. She even states with her there is only one rule. “Do as she says”.

In fact she would insist all members posting in this thread agree with her otherwise ya’ll would be toxic or bad.

I agree that this matter is complex and there are several different aspects to it.


Additionally, I agree that there can be several reasons for someone to use the word "toxic".

I think it's interesting to hear from about all the aspects as long as there is no judging or insisting to oversimplify how it works when someone gets exploited, manipulated or abused, etc.


No, I did not mention anything about their experiences. I made sure to clarify that that is not what I am talking about. Please try and understand what I originally meant. Thank you for the effort.

What I did say in that post and what did feel was that they did not display an understanding and it felt invalidating for me though I did not take it personally so I thought I would just like to speak up more about my opinion about the topic in general.

So, I would not like to argue about this. If they have an issue with my post, they can let me know themselves. I hope you understand. Thank you.

True. There are good books on this topic. E.g. the one about the High conflict personality. These books - incl. that one - have clear guidelines about how to identify such people and such behaviour, then how to find and keep boundaries etc. With an emphasis on how it's about extreme behaviours that most people would not display.

Which definition does emphasise that the majority of people (luckily) are not toxic. But it does also point out how these things do still exist (unfortunately). And how to differentiate between the two.



That is a really good point too. If someone has unhealed childhood trauma they will have a disadvantage in terms of that until it's healed. And lots of people have such childhood trauma.



Yes. I really like the way you worded the last sentence. Really good wording for some reason. Internal radar, danger for psychological damage, self-care and self-preservation, yeah.


I do think though that you don't have to have your spirit actually damaged. Maybe a risk of that if things go on long enough but even then... I'd like to believe that it's usually not true damage with it being irreversible or anything like that. Maybe damage to outer layers, losing vitality but not forever. If that made sense.







A lot of great useful distinctions in here.

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I struggle with the idea of people tolerating abuse and then other people saying they are allowing something to happen. A distinction has to be made as far as people that have been abused, and people that just seem to have no understanding of how to have healthy relationships.

And yes, very good distinction again.

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I’m surprised at people who are saying that toxic people are more rare or maybe a result of the person calling them toxic. Don’t you think most people have had an experience with a toxic person? Or at least a person who is toxic and not necessarily abused you? Hasnt everyone experienced the person in the office who is a **** stirrer and stirs the pot in order to feed off the drama?

Yes. Unfortunately I used to ignore and deny the existence of such things. That really bit me in the ****** in the end. So now I try to tell people that they need to watch out for themselves, and recognise and accept that such things do exist, and be prepared for them and know how to avoid them, how to put boundaries up around all this. All that is a very important part of psychoeducation to me.

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Ultimately what does it matter if someone uses the word toxic frequently in their life? It’s really not my business to judge whether they are genuinely in a relationship with a toxic person, or if it is somehow their fault for tolerating that behavior. It is not my business to judge an experience that somebody else has. I know I’ve judged people At one time or another and I regret that. Only because I try to use compassion and empathy when it comes to forming relationships or interacting in general with other people. So when the mirror turns and faces me and I realize that I have judged somebody, especially if it ends up being unfairly, I try to reevaluate my behavior and determine what it is about the other person that made me feel I had a right to judge their experiences.

That's a great note and insightful to me. Thank you for this.