Depressed spouse

I don't want to bash anyone with depression, or spin this in a purely negative light.

That isn't my intention.

I think my wife is a good person, and she has endured a lot of pain and illness and personal loss, including family and career.

She is in a real depressive state, and has been for a long time.

We are at a point where there is nothing I can ask for that isn't regarded as a criticism.

Can take a turn to drive the kids to school because I have to be at work early is taken as a criticism.

If I call from work to make sure she is awake is also a criticism, even though she frequently sleeps through alarms and doesn't wake until mid afternoon many days.

Saying, can you please dump out your take out coffee and put the cup in the garbage instead of placing it in the sink caused a fight for a full week. She looked for anything she could to tear me down to counter what I said.

I have been blamed for her illness, for her career, for inability to complete school and retrain, and am frequently blamed for distance between us. Over a year ago I began sleeping in another room. This was after multiple late nights of me being blamed for multiple things and getting told to leave our room.

This past month she has really openly vulnerably asked me to start sleeping in our room again. I did. And every night I was there, I was asked to leave for some reason OR she did things like leave the light on and eat late into the night (after 1AM, with me getting up at 6am) until I had to leave.

ANYTHING I ask is regarded as a profound criticism. But I can be be cursed out and personally insulted.

And, though I have requested counselling, she won't go.

And I still love her. There are things I want and need in my life from her.

How do you talk to someone who is that low?

Thanks for any ideas.

RDM

You should go to counseling by yourself. You need to find out why you want to continue to be with someone who treats you poorly.

There is pretty intense depression in my marriage as well. I came online because of my own, seeking out help. I do it usually by getting some space away from my wife for an hour or two to clear my head and journal/ write, so I am upstairs right now alone. I have explored Codependents Anonymous and/ or Adult Children of Dysfunctional families to find like minds/ people going through similar situations. The important thing is to not feel alone. I need support in grieving too. My sister died two and a half months ago unexpected heart attack.

People stay for lots of reasons.

Finances, and a memory and a hope of what you had one time.

And yes.... Codependency can be mistaken for love.

I think you need to confront her behavior with her, in a caring and compassionate way. I understand and have compassion for you that you're depressed, but this what you do, here are the examples, and this is how it makes me feel.

She's taking her emotions out on you, which is unacceptable.

I remember your previous post on this topic and am sorry to learn that there has been little or no improvement.

My elderly mother, who claims to be depressed, exhibits similar behaviour. She thinks it's fine to constantly criticise, whilst expecting the recipient to pander to her every need. Exceeded my tolerance/patience level around this time last year. She was not happy that the doctor had told her she was not depressed. I realise that it can manifest itself in so many ways and at different ages.

I cannot offer any more advice than previously given. Don't forget your needs. Can fully understand your comment about finances shaping your actions. Perhaps you're hoping that "tomorrow will be a good day". (Quote from Capt Sir Tom Moore, who raised so much money for UK NHS during pandemic). Unfortunately, for many in a similar situation, the only improvement can be made by taking drastic action. Hope I haven't been too harsh here

I don't remember what doctors she has seen, or if she is taking medication. Fwiw, it sounds like maybe she would benefit from some sort of new or updated guidance from a psychiatrist.

This.

I’ve been the depressed /anxious spouse, I know I wasn’t easy to live with, that in itself made me feel worse. But from what you write I’m wondering if there’s something more than depression going on here, it’s impossible to say from just reading about this - it seems like a really good idea for her to get evaluated/2nd opinion if necessary.

I experience some of this with my wife, although I must say not to the level you're describing. (We're seniors, by the way.) My wife is sensitive to anything I say that she perceives as being any type of criticism at which point she becomes defensive. And, as a result, I've taught myself to stop before I speak and think about anything I might say that appears to be something she could conceivably interpret as criticism... (a technique I learned reading the books of the American Buddhist nun Pema Chodron.) I myself have a tendency to be sarcastic. And so it comes as almost second nature for me to rip off one-liners regarding almost anything that comes up. It's a bad habit I think I picked up from my father many years ago.

I also intentionally look for opportunities to agree with my spouse. There is a sales trainer by the name of Tom Hopkins (he's on the web) who teaches professional sales techniques. And one of the techniques he teaches is to look for opportunities to agree with whatever your customer might say. "They say it, you nail it down" is the phrase he uses (or at least used to years ago.) So, for example, if my wife were to say: "I really like that color combination" I could follow up with: "Yes, aren't those pretty colors!" (She said it... I nailed it down.) There's a lot one can do simply with speech patterns that will improve relationship interactions. It's simply a matter of learning the techniques and applying them.

And then lastly, if my wife says something I disagree with, before I say anything, I stop and ask myself if the subject matter is important enough that I need to express a contrary opinion. (Often when I stop and think about it... it really isn't.) If it is... I will say what I think. But if, in the whole scheme of things, it doesn't really matter, then I just keep my opinion to myself. Am I always successful? No... not by a long shot. It's an ongoing process. But it helps.

P.S. I also typically will not ask my wife not to do things (such as not put a coffee cup in the sink.) If I see she has not done something I simply take care of it myself and let it go. After all, in most cases, it's just my opinion (or perhaps preference) that the way I prefer to see it done is the correct way and the way she did it was not.

I was wondering if something else is going on for your spouse in addition to depression. I suggest a second opinion.....

So you say she is a good person yet you describe the most asinine and selfish behaviors that your spouse exhibits. Hhmm In which way is she a good person?

I agree with a couple of people who stated there is more to it than depression. She needs to be evaluated to find out if perhaps there is more tk it. .

I understand that you might be staying in this mess because of money and kids etc but then stop hoping she will change. She will not. And why would she? She can afford this lifestyle of leisure and treating her husband in every bad way she chooses. It’s a luxury to live how she does treating her husband like trash, sleeping all day or other asinine things she does, but she does it because she can. As long as you are tolerating it, she’ll behave in this manner.

And of course she refuses counseling. No third party would support her outrageous behaviors. She isn’t stupid. She knows her behaviors are unacceptable. She doesn’t sound like someone who is interested to hear anything about having to improve.

I recommend therapy for yourself. You can’t change other peoples. But you can work on yourself

It's clear that you are committed to your marriage even in difficult times. I'm reminded of something I learned several years ago.... I can't provide the best care to others if I don't take care of me first. I agree with those who suggest you find support for yourself even if your wife refuses.

We cannot control, manage or change someone else, no matter how much we want to. We can only do those things for ourselves. Getting support for you is one way to take care of yourself. Another point to consider in seeking care and support for yourself is that you deserve much more happiness than you are currently getting. A good therapist can help you find a balance between what you feel obligated to do for your wife, and what should be done to support her. Sometimes support becomes enabling because it seems like more love, more caring, more devotion will fix things. Sometimes though, it robs our loved ones from taking personal responsibility and the opportunity to take care of themselves.

I hope you and your wife both receive the support you need.

One thing that has not been spoken much about here in my recollection is the effect of your wife's behavior, and your response to it, on your kids. When they grow up, to what extent would you want them to replicate what they see in the relationship between you and your wife?

Your situation is not entirely unlike mine. My DH is the depressed one who is not very functional and is over reactive to everything. There is no discussing anything with him on a rational level and it's been that way for years now. I'm so burnt out.

By some miracle, things are changing. He's finally in therapy and just started on meds. A year ago I couldn't have imagined that as a possibility. He comes from.a family that rejects psychology completely. I still don't have hope that this will be enough.

The most helpful things to me for getting to this point have been boundaries, learning about codependancy, and also learning about borderline personality. I'm not certain dh is borderline, but a lot of the reactivity is the same, so I find a lot applicable. The boundaries were the most important as they gave me the mental tools to put his stuff in his figurative court and keep mine in mine. Just doing that has forced him to take more responsibility for his ownership in his problems. I've learned to hold the line and make him accountable in a way that doesn't allow him to drag me into overeactive land or turn things around on me.

I get what you're saying about the kids too. It's awful for them, but situations can be a lot more complicated than people realize. I would have walked away four years ago, but nobody would have believed me about what he was doing. I figured I'd probably lose my kid (complicated story) and couldn't take that chance. As my kid gets older, it gets easier and she doesn't have delusions about him or idealize him. So... Whatever.

I held out hope for a long time about recapturing my best friend and the great relationship we had, but now there's been too much water under the bridge. Things can never be the same. I have no idea what my future looks like. It's hard. It sucks. Best of luck to you.

The question Fuzzybear brought up is what's also on my mind. There could be more at work there than 'just' depression (which can be so devastating , of course, even on its own). The out-sized anger and defensiveness, along with personally attacking you, feel like guideposts toward multiple issues being in play. This is especially true as you are certain that, normally, she is a very good person, and that these behaviours are uncharacteristic for her.

I have gone back, and read some of your earlier posts about your wife's treatment of you. I am not an expert, but the way she talks to you, so aggressively and dismissively, is reminscent of a close relative of my husband's, who I believe is struggling with a form of Depression, along with a type of Borderline Personality Disorder of one kind or another. There are also several other options---I'm not a diagnostician, but a couple of possibilities spring to mind.

I don't know of many people with Major Depression who would also be so routinely ungrateful as your wife sounds, given what you actually do for your entire family. Most people with MD would think themselves very lucky to have another, significant other who cares and is as patient as you have been. It is unlikely they would be regularly abusing the person that's doing so much to help them. That does make me think there's something else at work. And, don't get me wrong---I know she is suffering. But it does not, and never will give her permission to belittle or berate you, or to be dismissive or cruel towards you. You seem like a pretty caring and concerned individual. You've hung in there with her through an awful lot, and do seem to be trying very hard to understand her predicament.

It's good that you've been taking better care of your own mental health, and treating your anxiety.

It's completely possible your wife might also need a med change (I didn't read everything you've written, so forgive me if I missed something, there), or some intensive therapy. I saw she displays no interest in counselling, but perhaps you could benefit from speaking with someone. Very often, the caregiver in many situations needs just as much help as the sufferer---just in different ways.

You should print out copies of your posts here and perhaps create some sort of timeline to take with you to a qualified doctor. Patterns of behaviour over time can assist greatly in reaching a more complex diagnosis quickly and accurately.

My heart goes out to both of you. You do strike me as a loving and supportive husband.

I wish you both better days & nights, as well as answers.

Not wanting to diagnose on here and be chastised for doing so but I had similar thoughts as a previous poster. People that I personally happened to know who behaved like OP’s wife and some people I know were married to people with these similar behaviors had personality disorders (formally diagnosed) , in particular BPD.

But again first of all not here to diagnose but second of all if she refuses therapy and treatment, there isn’t much help to know her real diagnosis, whatever that diagnosis is.

I do have a concern that a person suffering abuse as long as OP might develop PTSD. I know someone who eventually escaped abusive marriage when children were grown and out of the house, but they are now diagnosed with pretty severe PTSD and it’s mostly due to enduring abuse.

And the last point even if OP doesn’t believe what is happening is abuse, it IS abuse. It is abusuve marriage. Eventually it will take its toll on OP and his children. The damage is inevitable no matter how you look at it.

Sadly children pay the price when parents choose (or parent have no other options but stay) to stay in abusive marriages. It’s understandable though that it’s also dangerous to end it while kids are young because if the abuser gets full or partial custody, they’ll be alone with the kids and you aren’t there to be a buffer. They might start taking their anger on kids if you aren’t there to serve as a scape goat. So there is a lot at play here.

Agreed. I've endured an abusive marriage and abusive relationships. I know that subtle and "unintentional" harm can still do an awful lot of damage.

Are you mostly staying there in the home with her because of the children? It's a commendable thing, naturally. But I worry what the children could be learning is acceptable behaviour (on your wife's part). Also, I'm concerned about what they are being taught about boundaries, and just how much you should be tolerating from her.

You've been writing about this situation for awhile, and nothing much has changed. It's distressing to think about.