Trying to move forward

My lawyer is a very smart, very scrappy young lady of color.

She 100% believes me.

She said everything my wife presented is just hearsay. Because, even if she has all these ailments that she is being treated for, she hasn't produced a letter or note or affidavit from a doctor saying she can't work. She has no history of receiving benefits or disability.

She has medications that she responded very well to and that are identified in the doctor's files, and she left behind over a year's worth of filled but not used prescriptions.

Even if she did have this history of disability, there is no magic pool of money, and I've assumed all our loans and debts, and responsibility for the family.

I'm only about 10% worried about the outcome.

What was hard was the years and years of health records and reliving everything that I had supported her through.

RDM

You truly have your "stuff" together. It's pretty obvious that you've picked up the pieces and just kept going despite her. All those responsibilities the two of you should have shared, she left you to deal with by yourself- which you've done very well. It's mind numbing that she seems to want what she wants, when she wants it, given what she has and hasn't done.

You went through a lot with her, it's no great wonder that it's tough being forced to rehash it.

((((RDM))))

Wow. Thanks

I don't see myself as having my act together, and I didn't see anything I did while with her as unusual.

I just saw there were responsibilities, and I accepted them.

And when it came to her illnesses, my heart broke for her and I took her to every doctor appointment, paid for specialists, whatever. Now it's being played against me financially. Not a drop of appreciation, or accepting her own situation or her own responsibilities.

Perhaps that's a definition of having your act together

You've taken care of the things you need to take care of, without complaint. The kids, the house, debt, etc. That says a lot about your credibility.

What could she be claiming if you hadn't done those things? Or hadn't supported her so much through her health issues? You don't neglect what's in front of you that needs attention.

Your wife has programmed you to believe you are responsible for her unhappiness. Yet your wife is abusing alcohol and had been going out with her friends to bars/clubs and had been interacting with other men but still expecting you to finance her lifestyle. Her children don’t feel safe with her and even you get triggered by her changing behaviors.

Your wife is not going to win in her attempt to get the court to make you pay for her unhealthy lifestyle. The court will see that you can’t afford to provide for your children and pay for her party lifestyle. Just because your wife thinks she is entitled doesn’t mean she is.

It's just hard to read though an affidavit about 25 years of your life and your commitment to another person.

RDMercer

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDMercer It's just hard to read though an affidavit about 25 years of your life and your commitment to another person. RDMercer

Maybe look at it as being committed to taking care of what & where your life was at that time & being a good, responsible, caring person rather than being "just" committed to another person.

My now ex did the Dr things & hospital visits with me but just like with getting married after he graduated college, it was nothing more than a check mark for him as "the right thing to do"

Maybe reframing your "committment" might help?

Quote:

Your wife has programmed you to believe you are responsible for her unhappiness

We need to be careful with statements like this as it can promote victimhood thinking depending on the person. But it also marks a lack of a skill that needs help in the person being programmed. It can shine a light on problems of both sides of the fence that need to be addressed

RD, just so you know, divorce lawyers see these challenges constantly, you are not unique and they can see you have been a responsible dedicated husband and father.

"Maybe look at it as being committed to taking care of what & where your life was at that time & being a good, responsible, caring person rather than being "just" committed to another person.

My now ex did the Dr things & hospital visits with me but just like with getting married after he graduated college, it was nothing more than a check mark for him as "the right thing to do"

Maybe reframing your "committment" might help?"

Thanks for this Eskie. It's true, it wasn't just a check mark for me. I wanted the best for her. I wanted to see her be successful, and whole, and happy. I viewed so much of her anger and irrationalness to being sick and depressed. My son said, "I've seen you let her berate you and tear you apart for hours and you never say anything back, then when she needs you because she's sick sometimes only a couple of hours later you go look after her. I've seen you look after her and never expect anything back."

I didn't. I loved her.

I know, I had to learn and accept that the court sees a lot of cases. Mine isn't unique. Ultimately what she's looking for and expecting to get from me just doesn't exist. It's not possible. We are now a single income home. I am now a single parent. No, I can't do that on a 40% pay cut. That's what she is seeking; that she not pay child support, and that 35% of my after-tax pay goes to her.

The judge will see this. It doesn’t matter what your wife thinks she should get. You have soul custody, your wife should be embarrassed about that.

You don’t like confrontation so this process is uncomfortable for you. Your wife has issues you cannot fix. That’s not your fault.

She shoulda married a professional ball player. Where is she getting these ideas?

Champagne tastes, beer budget, we used to call that.

I really don't know what's ahead for her.

I was scared that in court on Monday a bunch of stuff was being appealed, but my lawyer said, No, those decisions are made; you are the parent and you're in the family home until the youngest completes their education, which can include college.

Well.... Then that's that. I can't assume responsibility for the home, debt, and kids, and take a pay cut.

She's on dating apps. Friends of mine have found her, stating she has a graduate degree and kids, and seeking a long term partner.

Well..... Who dates that person and basically takes her in?

Who says "Oh, you can't pay your rent, you're paying child support but your kids don't speak to you, you have a ton of education but umpteen reasons why you can't work. Ok. Sure." Her future will probably be one of mutual exploitation.

Anyway... Painful to think about but not my problem.

I'm realizing I go through steps and set backs... Sometimes many steps back, but then past where I was before.

I'm not "trying to move forward". I am moving forward.

Despite lawyer fees and the loss of her income, the household is better off financially now than 13 months ago.

Which means, her income didn't even cover her own expenses.

The only drama in our home now is, "I shouldn't have to walk over your clothes to wake you for school. Do your laundry, and take the chips and popcorn out of your room. I don't care if you watch movies on your phone in your room but this is gross."

Happy Saturday everyone.

Just a side note as a kid who's been on this situation: go easy on the clothes and such and calling them gross. It can very well be a sign of their own fatigue, depression, etc. from having her as a mother.

It's hard to be called gross because you're so exhausted that doing laundry just doesn't seem that important.

Obviously I don't know the full situation there, just giving a perspective.

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I hear what you're saying re:clothes.

"Gross" refers to dirty dishes with food still in them and wrappers on the floor.

As for how it effects the kid, and them going through fatigue and depression...

Yes, that's valid.

We don't raise kids, we raise adults.

Everyone in our home is coping and is dealing or has dealt with depression.

If you assume that is true, and assume one person's feelings and difficulties are no bigger and of no greater importance than anyone else's... Then get up and contribute. Clean your room. Get ready for school. Move.

Depression, anxiety, fatigue, PTSD, are all real. In a setting where everyone has something going on, then letting someone assume your responsibilities is a self centered act. I have zero, ZERO tolerance for that.

My wife endlessly couldn't contribute, because of her depression, anxiety, myriad illnesss, etc., and hers were ALWAYS bigger than everyone else's. I have a responsibility to show my kids the opposite.

The other thing is, thoughts follow action which follows thought which follows action which follows thoughts...... If you can't break the cycle and the pattern on your own, then someone or something external to you has to.

I'm the external thing for them.

Laying in bed in filth is not going to make you less depressed. Failing to shower is not going to make you less depressed. Get up and contribute.

Depression, anxiety, ptsd are real, but you actually need to move and do something positive to fight back.

There's not a doubt in my mind that this is the right thing to do. Not one. My kids will be more disciplined and more resilient and more supportive of the people around them for being raised like this.

The other thing is, I have never and will never use emotional manipulation with them.

"I'm so disappointed on you. I'm so hurt by your decisions. Don't you think you could do better?" Screw that. That's manipulation.

As compared to.
"You messed up, I'm angry about it, and here's why."

"Your room is dirty and it smells. The food waste brings bugs. I told you this before and said there'll be a consequence the next time. I'm not driving you to the hockey game unless this is done in 30 minutes. Move."

"Your wet towel is on the floor, again. It smells and ruins the finish on the floor. I explained that. Fix it now, or there's a consequence. Move."

My kids are loved and supported a lot. It's also true that most of the world doesn't care what your issue is, you still have to contribute. So.... Contribute.

RDMercer

This morning I was reading about shame, and having healthy shame versus unhealthy shame. One of the big takeaways is separating the person from the act or situation.

It sounds like this is what you do with your kids. Your kid isn't gross, your kid's room is gross.

Nothing wrong with expectations and consequences. The world will have that for them too. Guessing on the flip side they get lots of support and affirmations from you as well.

Awesome post. “Contribute”. It’s a good one.

Great post @RDMercer

Your kids are growing up knowing how to be responsible adults with a good understanding of consequences. You are an outstanding dad.

Thank you.

When I was doing value exercises in therapy, I used the things I taught/teach the kids to identify my values.

So these are some of my values.

RDM.

I appreciate that you understand the validity of what I said, but you then go on to essentially invalidate it.

People, including your kids, don't cope the way you do just because you demand it. And saying "we all have PTSD so contribute" is very much dismissing how an individual may be coping differently than you do and unable to cope the way you do. I again caution you in this mindset because assuming your kids can and will cope the way you insist they do would be furthering the abuse of their mother. I know that's not your intent and I am not saying that's what is happening here. But the attitude you just described was the attitude of my bio dad that I no longer have contact with. And no, the attitude didn't make me more resilient.

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((((seesaw)))) As a rare personality type, with a kid who's also that same rare personality type, I appreciate what you're saying a great deal. Not everybody processes and copes with life the same way. One of the biggest sources of anxiety for my DD is that she doesn't move through the world quite the same way as a lot of her peers. In some ways, she's more effective, and in some ways less- but she's her, and she gets where she needs to go. Growing up, I didn't have the luxury of parents who understood those differences, and it's left a few scars. So I completely agree with you- what you say is very true.

With RDM, I kind of get the impression that's he's always been a very involved and connected dad, and is tuned into to his kids' personalities and what they respond best to.

Still, it's good to remember to walk a mile in someone else's shoes, right?

Oh, I have no doubt thar RD is a great dad. My comments are just meant as cautionary.

I'm not at all suggesting that the kids be allowed to become codependent or not do their chores or anything of the sort. But like I said, not everyone copes the same way and by definition depression and ptsd can make normal daily tasks very hard. And yes, kids are kids, they are not adults, and no, you shouldn't expect of kids what you expect of adults.

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If you grow up on a farm you have to develop self discipline. Everyone has to pitch in as chores have to be done no matter what. It’s not a bad way to grow up.

"But like I said, not everyone copes the same way and by definition depression and ptsd can make normal daily tasks very hard. And yes, kids are kids, they are not adults, and no, you shouldn't expect of kids what you expect of adults."

Kids can't be expected to cope like adults. But we raise kids to become complete adults.

I don't want this to sound like I'm coming at you @seesaw. I'm not. I'm voicing how I see this. I don't want it to feel like an attack on you.

Allowing kids to become immersed in anxiety, depression, and struggling with the fatigue of trauma isn't going to help them. That isn't invalidating what they are experiencing.

Letting them self medicate with a lack of self care, a lack of awareness of how we are all connected in our home, community, and world isn't going to get them where they need to be.

Thoughts follow actions follow thoughts follow actions etc. Something has to interrupt the pattern,otherwise you end up with a young adult who is so self absorbed that they can't function.

And becoming super self absorbed in your own pain has some narcissistic components to it. Saying, "We're all hurting in some way and we need to look after each other," is better.

I tell my kids, not everything we feel is valid. We have to examine our feelings and try to put some of them aside if they're misplaced.

Not everything I feel is valid! Gawd knows I've felt some things and relied on this forum to help me confront these things.

Seeking a positive mindset matters, and having the ability to still contribute despite not having a positive mindset matters too.

Real self esteem comes from real self examination, and from accomplishing something you can be proud off. The kids set goals since my wife left. One completed first aid/first responder training, one completed driver training, and one set an agreed on target for school absenteeism and to pass all classes. That kid was really struggling. I agreed to two floater days a month, plus legitimate illness for absenteeism, and they're doing it. Having the autonomy to plan for days off helped, and their marks improved hugely.

Having tangible visible improvements to yourself and surroundings can help with resilience. If all your clothes are dirty and you smell like sweat, that doesn't get you anywhere positive. Self care and attending to your appearance and immediate surroundings matters when fighting against depression.

I also think it's OK for kids to see their parents are human, and to treat their parents as human. My youngest said they're super exhausted from depression and find it extremely hard to do chores. "I know. Me too. So.... Now what do we do? Can we work together on your chores, because this isn't ok. You can't expect me to do everything. I'm hurting too. So, I'll help you with yours if you come help with supper."

@seesaw, I'm sorry. I think I sounded too forceful originally. I don't want you to think I'm jumping all over you, and I'm sorry for the tone the first time. I appreciate your insight and your support and I don't want to lose you.

RDM

Also, @seesaw.

I was soooooo ticked at all of them yesterday.

NONE of them had done a single darn thing for days... Like.... A solid week of just pure slackery.

And then I had to work 10 hours on Saturday, came home, and got asked, "Are you making us something to eat?"

Then they all fled the scene to dodge dishes as soon as they ate.

So.. I'm sorry for my tone. I've really appreciated your support.