What to do when they come back?

I’ve thought the same. Rarely drunk, but a constant trickle of wine all day.

My son asked about the smell in our room. He recently had a memory of it. I said yeah, that fruity acetone smell. That’s when all your body is metabolizing is wine, you exhale the acetone and fruit smell.

I’m serious. Those were the only calories in her body a lot of the time.

It’s not unusual for an alcoholic to also have an eating disorder.

The other thing they tend to do is scapegoat and blame others when things bother them or something goes wrong or happens that they don’t like.

Trauma makes you accept the breadcrumbs of love and affection.

Healing makes you realize that you deserve someone who treats you like you are too important to lose.

👍

Thank you everyone

We live in a small city, under 150k, with a bunch of small suburban communities (5k) all around it.

What is my go-to line and my action upon bumping into her at the grocery store or the mall?

What if she’s got flying monkeys with her?

What if I’m with kids?

I truly have no idea what to anticipate from her.

Ignore her if you run into her alone or with flying monkeys. If she makes ignoring her impossible, excuse yourself as quickly and quietly as you can.

Discuss with your kids how to handle the situation if you run into her with them. Have plans in place for various scenarios.

Well said.

This may sound odd, but when it comes to this sort of situation, I find it helpful to take some time (meditate maybe?), and try to mentally recategorize the person in question. Move them from who they were, to more of who they are now. Maybe in your case, you can start to think of her as something like an old annoying neighbor that you don't really want to run into. Try to recategorize her as someone to whom you're indifferent and detached.

I saw a great video a few days ago about boundaries: the presenter talked about how narcissists bait and need the reaction from you. Without your reaction, they are nothing. As he said, "You don't fight for what you don't value. If the narcissist can't get a reaction out of you, you've just told them they have no value." Non-reaction is power over a narcissist.

It might feel weird, but it can help to practice lines you might use- "Excuse us, we're in a hurry." , "I've got to go." , "I'm not going to discuss that here.". Simple phrases that put down your boundaries, but don't go so far as to be placating in any way, or feel like you're justifying yourself.

Ultimately, it boils down to taking care of the needs of you and your kids- act on that in the moment, and give zero mind to anything she's doing or wants.

I know when I went back to Calif & ran into my "still " husband the week before a court case I had against him, I knew how awesome my life was without him so it made it so much easier to just stick to business & facts without "seeing red" or yelling. I was in control & didn't let him phase me. I was actually able to ask some questions that for me provided understanding & closure & was what I had thought anyway but was good to hear out of him. I would never suggest doing this intentionally but it was the situation that happened & after 11 years of being away so I was well established in my new life. Lol....lies were told before the wedding so maybe these were lies too but they did make sense looking back at how bad the marriage had been & why fighting was necessary on my part. Had to laugh because his "friends" thought I was "coming back to him" like I guess he had hoped for so long but it seriously ended with me telling him I had never been so happy & peaceful in my life as I actually am in my life. That was finalized a few weeks later with the divorce in the state I live in & I basically just walked away from it all in Calif. He lost everything he wouldn't give up in a divorce I tried to file for before I left. No feeling sorry for him, he got what he wanted & deserved.

He is still lying (or maybe just stupid) about our names still being on the loan to the house no longer owned by us & I am footing the legal bill to get my name off that loan. He claimed to my daughter a few months ago that the investor who bought the house before the foreclosure auction was getting a new loan....NOT. But my lawyer will be filing a law suit against them all in the loan holder doesn't remove my name & they all will regret if it comes to that.

Lol....it does seem like bad penny's never really totally go away sometimes & we just get stronger & stronger dealing with it

I bumped into her randomly recently, and had my daughter with me.

All in all, we both handled it quite well.

she DID hit me with a jab at the time, and in email after, that caused a reaction in me.... But only about 25% of what it used to cause.

I'm working on this before court. I'm working on building immunity to being baited.

I think she was dumbfounded that DD put up such a strong boundary in the moment, and so simply.... "Can we talk?" "No thank you" "Can I give you a hug." "No thank you, I'd rather not."

If there is any dose of reality working its way through, she must realize that whenever we go to court she's going to get roasted by the kids and will end up losing guardianship of DD.

We could end up in court in January and she could be proudly righteous, or she could be the beleaguered victim fighting for her rights, or she could ignore anything to do with the kids and only focus on finances, or she could run from this until DD is 18 so she doesn't have to face losing guardianship and the stigma that comes with that.

No idea what to expect.

I'm really, really happy I practiced this stuff and got these lines prepped ahead of time.

Also.... She sent me two emails this week. It is killing me to check them and shoot something back, but I haven't opened them yet.

She's used to getting an immediate response from me. She also, I expect, tries to incite something in me because of some kind of needs she has for that. Well... I'm hoping she directs that energy to someone in her bubble instead.

RDMercer

You did well in that brief encounter and good for your daughter setting boundaries like that with her mother.

You have been gaining ground as you slowly establish your own sense of independence. Toxic people resent that as it’s a threat to their need to feel they have the control and power.

When it comes to individuals that have problems with alcohol as you have described in your wife is how these individuals never developed a sense of boundaries and they also never developed emotional regulation. Instead they rely on the alcohol as a way to reduce emotional regulation This makes it hard for a partner and child because how their behavior changes depending on the alcohol level in their system. In listening to you describe what you dealt with while your wife lived at home, everything revolved around HER emotional stability.

It takes time to slowly understand how this disease affects you and that you can love someone and be powerless to help or change the effects of this disease. The disease always takes priority even in sobriety. I know this fact all too well as I have been married to it for 44 years now.

Never expect this person to actually care about you and see your value. Yes, this individual can suddenly blow up at you and go into a rage and stomp around. Try to remember the underlying inability to manage their emotional regulation. Never decide it’s your fault and if only you did this or that. That is codependency and that takes time to understand and slowly change.

“Instead they rely on the alcohol as a way to reduce emotional regulation ”

I think this is accurate.

She would drink some to numb…. But 1-2 extra and BOOM you knew she was going to become vicious and hateful. Not necessarily loud, but DARK.

The new therapist I’ve been seeing pointed out some stuff to me that I’d never considered before, with regard to projection.

“When she saw you, did she accuse you of any emotions?”

“Yes, she kept saying how angry I was, but I wasn’t. “

“Yeah. That could be because she was angry, and she needed to dump that emotion on you because she couldn’t regulate it. Did she try to prod you or bait you into becoming angry?”

“Oh my gosh, she hit me with multiple little jabs that I bet most people wouldn’t even notice.”

“Yeah, because she may need to see an external representation of what she is feeling.”

Holey Moley! I didn’t know that was a thing that happened!

Yes and then there is that threshold where they black out. That can get scary too because within that level their anger can surface and some will even strike out.

The hard part when it comes to sobriety is not so much the physical addiction but what to do with the emotional dysregulation. A therapist told me at one point that my husband only had the maturity of 13 year old. Well that’s about how old my daughter was at the time. In all honesty I did not really have an adult partner but instead two very young teens. Yes it did get lonely.

This type of individual often blamed others or plays the victim and sits and retells stories not with the real truth but THEIR own version of the truth. They do this to self regulate their emotions. Yes, I think
You are recognizing the projections. This is a pattern you can’t change or fix. In fact they will even do this with a therapist.

Not too long ago your wife showed up at your home unannounced and asked to see your daughter. She had a nice car and some guy was with her. She looked real good and caught you off guard. Then she sat with your daughter and told your daughter she wanted to take her out school clothes shopping. She said she had a new job and was cutting back on her drinking and was seeing a therapist. She NEVER even asked you how you were doing. That whole thing was herself and her need to have a sense of power. She was being totally selfish and disrespectful. She inserted herself and that is typical of an alcoholic when they disrespect others and have a sense of entitlement.

Even if your wife cut back, that won’t fix her problem and all it does is make it hard to regulate her emotions. What she did was an act for all involved including the guy sitting in the car. I bet she has him convinced SHE is the victim and he is there for support should you give her a hard time.

And whoever this guy is, he has no clue he is only being used.

It really takes time to understand the dynamics of alcohol abuse disorder. People with this problem do not really love or know how to have a healthy relationship. When a woman has more than 7 drinks per week which is one glass per nite, she is damaging both gray and white matter of her brain. Not to mention the damage that is taking place in the rest of her body.

You are a healthy man that wants a healthy relationship. Well, it ain’t gonna be with her, she is just not capable of it. And that’s with ANY man. Even her friends are not really friends, they probably hit the bottle just like your wife does.

I can’t explain the profound peace I feel at home.

I live about 25 miles outside of a small city on over an acre of property.

Every night I go to bed amazed at the quiet. Every morning I wake up the same way. It’s like I’m trying to just soak in and savour how good this is because I’m just waiting for it to end.

I’m in court next month. This will be the first big court session. I expect I’ll be unable to stay in this place after that.

Court moves slowly because; there’s no addiction, no violence, no at-risk minors, and because court is expensive. She’s refused mediation and opted for court. My lawyer advised “then let her come up with the money to pay for it”. So. Two years after separation we’ll be in court.

My lawyer also advised further delay tactics to force her to negotiate.

The kids are making statements this time.

RDMercer

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDMercer I can’t explain the profound peace I feel at home. I live about 25 miles outside of a small city on over an acre of property. Every night I go to bed amazed at the quiet. Every morning I wake up the same way. It’s like I’m trying to just soak in and savour how good this is because I’m just waiting for it to end. I’m in court next month. This will be the first big court session. I expect I’ll be unable to stay in this place after that. Court moves slowly because; there’s no addiction, no violence, no at-risk minors, and because court is expensive. She’s refused mediation and opted for court. My lawyer advised “then let her come up with the money to pay for it”. So. Two years after separation we’ll be in court. My lawyer also advised further delay tactics to force her to negotiate. The kids are making statements this time. RDMercer

you have a wise lawyer. Yes, she is greedy enough I am sure they will try to force a sale of the community property but see what your lawyer has to say about it before jumping to any conclusions. Could be that the money she stole will amount to her half of the property so it will be yours. Never know so worth talking it over with your lawyer

Oh, I sure understand the peace that country living provides. I need to be surrounded by country, cows, & wildlife & for me it was worth walking away from everything to find that peace in my life.

@RDMercer have a happy holiday with your children Don’t let any toxic in. ❤️

We hid

Me and DD went to see family and friends on the weekend and then we all went away for Christmas.

We met up with some old friends for dinner yesterday, other friends for breakfast today, and extended family tonight.

Merry Christmas!

Thank you!!

Merry Christmas and/or Happy Holidays everyone!

Well, instead of thinking of what you did as hiding, it’s better to say that you chose to not make yourself available to be affected by toxic behaviors. Because your wife has a history of substance abuse that affects her behaviors and moods, you and your children never got to feel safe.

People who have substance abuse problems tend to self medicate with alcohol and marijuana and may also use stimulants like cocaine or they consume large quantities of caffeine via coffee or high caffeine drinks. Individuals that constantly abuse these substances tend to have narcissistic behavior patterns. There is a lack of self awareness that is often covered up by using the I am the victim mentality. There is often a covert narcissism to this because their behaviors are protecting their need to abuse these substances.

The truth is that all relationships suffer because of this SAD disorder and the individual tends to lie to themselves where they see themselves as the victim be it at work or in other relationships. And yes, often this problem becomes costly and it drains any type of savings including dipping into the savings of spouses or children as you have described your wife as doing.

Unfortunately, some of our hardest lessons are learned in our homes from our parents or siblings and when we are much too young to understand. It’s not unusual to be taught to be a codependent not even having any idea what that means. I would advise that the best thing you can teach your children is to choose things to do that make you unavailable to the toxic behaviors that may just show up and put you on the spot.

I agree

That was a bad attempt at humour

We didn’t hide. We just stayed surrounded with positivity the whole time. I just avoided any drama or awkwardness.

We got together last night with some families I knew way back

There were about 12 “kids” between 15 and 21 there, some little kids, and some parents and grandparents

It was a games and cards night with lots of food and music. We wrapped up at 1am.

Today we’re going off-roading.

Oh…. @seesaw. I took DD shopping for a dress before Christmas. Mid-calf length, navy blue, band high on her waist. Wide shoulder straps, no sleeves. She got a short waisted white cardigan to go with it. And new black and white Vans.

I thought I did ok

Very good! You have really improved on how you navigate and you are growing stronger RD. 🥰

Lol....I get that humor. I have used it myself at times.....IT WORKS. I have to look at things with humor cause if I only look at things analytically & seriously I would drive myself crazy.

Rd, you are so cute! You did good! With the empire-waisted midi-dress and cropped cardigan.

YES!

Empire waisted and cropped!!

I’ve heard those terms !!