What to do when they come back?

Our kids are good kids

There’s nothing special about this house but it’s solid, comfortable and quiet.

My daughter has been sick. I got tired of her shows so tonight we watched Goonies which she enjoyed.

She recently started a job as a labourer at a small farm.

This is all just good stuff. Just simple and good.

Focusing on the good things & being thankful foe them in our life gets us through the tough things

I've ranted about my dad in the past. He definitely has some communal narcissistic traits. His world view is very simplistic and everything has to fit in the checkboxes of his religion.

But he's a good person. He is giving of himself in a lot of ways.

And I have had to recognize that he doesn't feel deeply, but he feels broadly.... He tries to be inclusive and bring people together at their home.

His advice to me way back was, "Celebrate. At every opportunity celebrate. Don't over think things during those times. The memories of good times and celebration with family and friends will get you through the bad times."

And....

I was talking to an old friend today. She's 50. She went out with a bunch of her GFs on the weekend to a bar to eat and listen to live music.

I was asking her today how it was.

One of the ladies is trying to keep her relationship with her BF together, and her eyes were red from crying or smoking MJ... Not sure which.

Another was trying to kick her long term BF out before he could claim common law privileges in a separation because she makes way more than him, and he's taken to selling her appliances while she's at work and keeping vodka in water bottles.

Another was in the middle of her third divorce. Her husband hasn't been paying his half of the bills because he's been supporting his adult daughter from his 2nd marriage, so she's losing her apartment at the same time.

I listened to all that and I was just.......

That is the lifestyle my stbx wife wished and longed for. The drama and upheaval…

Then it occurred to me that in court she said she'd been forced for move six times in one year.... Well... How many times did she move in and out of men's apartments then? I doubt she was making damage deposits six times in a year.

No thanks. I don’t want to bash others choices but it’s not for me.

Home is good. Quiet is good.

RDMercer

Im sorry - did you say shes been forced to move 6 times in one year? Thats funny, its not even schadenfreude. She must be the roommate from hell.

OMG!

I laughed so hard at that!

Because it hadn’t occurred to me but…. Yeah.

Totally accurate. Totally….

And suddenly being around person/people who don’t care what her issue is. Pay up, do the chores, quiet down, or get out.

6 times? I thought she told your DD that she’s getting nice big place? So is she couch surfing then? You can’t move in and out of apartments 6 times a year if you sign or co sign a lease. Makes one wonder.

My husband’s ex moved in and out of peoples places and was thrown out every time. But even she did not move 6 times!

I know you didn’t mean it that way but just a commentary: not every single/divorced/separated woman spends her time in bars drinking and getting into drama with men lol

None of my girlfriends live this way and most are single. Only a few, including me, are married

I don’t think it’s single versus married difference but rather just a life style. Ton of married people live this way. Personally my life style never changed regardless if I was single or married.

Honestly if your wife wanted to get a divorce, well it’s not against the law. The issue is how she did it. Moved out with no warning and abandon her kids. No arrangements were made about taking care of children. Not helping to raise kids. Not seeing kids. Not making arrangements about houses. Not behaving decently through separation. Not respecting her soon to be ex. She did everything in such an unacceptable evil manner

How people want to live is their business

And if that’s the life she wants, that’s her business.

I agree and you are totally correct

Also…. Not every divorced person is drinking and partying or struggling in unstable situations.

For me I’m still just in disbelief.

Because at one time we were harmonized on the things and the lifestyle that we felt mattered for us.

And yes, said she moved 6 times in the first 13 months apart, and a couple of times since. Told DD she was moving into a nice big place.

Maybe her first year was just hard.

Oh I am sure it’s not just the first year is hard. She had no means or aptitude to take care of herself and be on her own, but she moved out not thinking it through.

See

That’s why you’re a legendary wise elder

Hahah

We got to laugh, right, so we don’t cry about this situation. Hang in there. You are doing great

Quote:

Originally Posted by divine1966 Oh I am sure it’s not just the first year is hard. She had no means or aptitude to take care of herself and be on her own, but she moved out not thinking it through.

Maybe she really didn't care so didn't feel that thinking it through was necessary. My ex thought everything always worked out & he was always saved from his behavior without consequences.....so they think everything will continue working out until reality smacks them in the face. Then they just get angry instead of realizing they need to change because they never believe they caused their situation

This is so true

People who've learned to use and manipulate others often tend to lack any real insight into themselves, and don't tend to feel much need for responsibility or accountability.

In my personal experience, some people like that also tend to have a "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" mentality, and are often perpetually looking for the next best thing that might come along. They're not real concerned with any damage they might leave in their wake.

@eskielover and @ArmorPlate108

WOW.

Isn't that true???

"Things will work out. Things always work out."

YEAH... Because I've been saving our bacon, or begging family for money!

I've never thought about this before!

RDMercer

I'm gonna say... I'm really naive when it comes to dating and relationships in general, and especially at this stage of life.

Yesterday a friend of mine, 40 female, started talking about my stbx.

She said....

"She's in trouble. What she thought existed doesn't. She's beautiful, but if she thinks she's going to be stay-at-home and kept by a successful man, he'll see she's over educated and under employed which will be a red flag. If she's pleading for help because of illness or injury or hard times, very few men of means are going to step into that. She can't provide a man with children or security. An older man that is marrying for companionship will see that she isn't someone that can care for him. All she has to offer is short term connections where she gets something out of it. She'll never have the devotion of someone that she gave children to and had a first home with."

Is that accurate??

Because to me.... If I love someone, I'm just going to take care of them.

But I'm thinking..... That sounds accurate.

You most certainly can have a devotion of a man you didn’t have children or first home with. I’d say my husband is devoted to me (and vice versa) and we don’t have kids together. Having said that, most men, especially the ones who already spent portion of their life taking care of a woman who chose not to contribute will not take on yet another helpless woman. Most men want equal partners and not a kept woman.

Well yes if you love someone, you’d take care of them but to what extend?

Most people aren’t interested in being martyrs and being life long care givers for no reason. I love my husband, but if he decides to spend his days lying on a couch watching you tube, he’d find himself on the street.

I’d say if a man wants to have stay at home wife (in absence of young kids at home), he’s free to do that. But I am yet to hear of any man willingly agreeing to it. Same as very few women will take on a random man (some would but it’s uncommon).

Especially if people have children from first marriage. I’d rather put money in a fund for my grandson than support random guy, even if he’s handsome.

I think you are right. I think I could definitely love someone and commit to them. I also think people at this stage of life will have to balance that commitment with commitment to kids and grandkids.

I have a grand kitten. No grand kids. My grand kitten is the best, and the smartest best boy.

Anyway.... It's probably healthier for me to not indulge in these speculations. Life is good and I'm happy.

RDMercer

My son is home for the weekend. He brought my grand kitten with him.

DD went to work this morning and me and him went to Home Depot

DD was home after lunch. He took her off-roading in the snow. Then they came home and their skates and went skating together.

She’s gone to Wicked with friends. Me and him are heading out to visit some other friends.

It’s a good day.

This isn't related to anything we've been talking about....

I've talked before about my daughter. She's tall. I'm a bit taller than average for a man, and she's the same height as me. She's strong and always has been.

Just this week she was telling me about when she was little and her friends came over. We were getting in my truck and the other little girls couldn't open the door and couldn't climb up in on their own.... And my DD tried to do the same. She was laughing remembering and she said, "You just weren't having it. You weren't mean, but it was a pretty firm 'No. You can do it. Quit acting like that.'"

I told her the same thing when she was talking about racing in gym class or in the playground and letting the boys win. She brought that up too. "You weren't having it Dad! You were just like.... 'No. You're fast. Be fast. Don't change for anyone.' And I told you boys didn't like it if you're strong, and you said, 'Find a stronger boy.'"

We've looked for some suitable body goals, fitness goals and role models for her.

I've never seen Ilona Maher on Dancing With the Stars. I found her looking up female athletes with my daughter. I'm AMAZED by this young woman. Her speed and power, athleticism, and endurance is just wild.



There's something I noticed repeatedly.... You see it at 1:30. When she's really running, she tucks her chin down and she's gone.

I don't know her story at all... But I hope that is something she's done since she was a little girl. I hope she had someone in her life that just encouraged her to be herself to the fullest. I hope she had someone tell her, "Ilona, every time you get the ball, you just go! Show them how fast you can be!"

So glad your daughter has the kind of support you have given her. For me personally all my drive came from within me. My parents never gave encouragement or discouragement. They were basically neutral which was good since I had so much internal drive & competitiveness at least I didn't have to fight against being discouraged. I grew up in a mostly guys neighborhood so I wanted to keep up & be better when I could. Lol....playing with gitl stuff was boring. Served me well as I excelled in racquetball & played every day with the guys I worked with & competed & sometimes beat "A" players & always competed with the guys in tournaments & challenge courts.

I gave my daughter a chance in any sport she was interested in she loved doing the sports but hated competition so I never pushed her. Had her out downhill skiing at 2 1/2 years old & at 4, Jackson Hole ski school wasn't going to let her into the week long ski class until they saw her ski. She played basketball in HS. I was at most of her games to watch & cheer her on. Some is just giving them opportunities & let them decide what they want to excell in....no discouragement. My parents were clueless at what I was good at or not.....though my dad discouraged my getting a college degree....I just blew him off like normal. I think when I graduated with my Accounting & Computer Sci degree & had my job offer before graduation that MAYBE he was a little proud but never said anything. I always accomplished things for myself & didn't care what anyone thought because I did it for me, no one else. Sometimes that kind of drive is as strong or stronger than from outside encouragement though it is really nice to have the encouragement

Well.....

My daughter knocked me on my butt last night.

I've been going through a low stretch; probably 2-3 weeks of depression right now. It's not as bad as it was in the past, but it's there and I recognize it.

If you've ever lost someone, you know that pain can rear its head in the moment that you forget that they're gone.

I was walking through a mall and saw something and it popped in my mind, "Gee... (wife) would really like that. I should tell her." BOOM. Depression took root.

Last night I was driving with my 16 yo daughter and told her I wasn't doing well lately. She asked me a little about it. I asked, "Do you ever miss Mom?"

She replied, "No..... Yes....... No........ (long pause) I yearn for a mother, but not for her. I had to understand that I was mourning that I didn't have a mother, not that I didn't have her. Those things were confused in my mind because she was the closest thing I had to a mother. I had to separate those. I feel a yearning, not a missing."

So I asked, "Do you go through low periods of depression?"

She replied, "I did for months when I was mourning when you guys first split up, but I haven't since then. Honestly things just keep getting better since then."

I've kind of been reeling from that conversation for the last 15 hours....

RDMercer

Hi RD, your daughter is very wise in that she doesn’t really mourn her mother but instead mourns not having the mother she needed. This is what you are also mourning. You have gained a lot of ground RD, but from time to time you too will grieve the wife you never had. You projected a lot about your wife that was never who she really was. You were stuck in a box and now you can see how unhealthy that box really was. You have to see the reality of the box to not only break free of it but to eventually look for a better box.

Your response reminded me of something important

I’ve failed to address the projection part of my recovery.

I’ve focused on coming to terms with who she really is.

I haven’t done enough to address my issues of projection.

RDMercer

Wow....your daughter is very wise

[QUOTE=RDMercer;7473428]Your response reminded me of something important

I’ve failed to address the projection part of my recovery.

This is very common and it’s important to learn how to pay attention to how we can unknowingly project an image of someone that doesn’t exist. As you have been slowly trying to adjust to accepting reality you had been pointing out different things you were enjoying that your wife never enjoyed. You did not experience real love, instead you loved what you created in your mind and you blamed yourself anytime problems cropped up. You were committed to thinking the only reason things did not work out was because you failed. That’s not true and there was never anything you could do to change your wife. This is what your son and daughter have come to accept and understand how to not blame themselves for her lacks.

Toxic people want you to react badly so they can use it against you. This is called baiting, gaslighting and manipulation. When you experience these moments it’s just a reminder of what you created and not what was really there.