I am wiccan why all the hate

It's unfair, I think, to judge a whole religion by the actions of a very few. There are fanatics in every group. This person that shouted "*****" to that child could very well have been a fanatic or even worse, out of his mind! That is NOT what Christianity is about.

Before Jesus assended into heaven, he gave his disciples the Great Commision; to "Go unto all the word proclaiming the Word of God." It's up to each individual how he/she perceives that command and how they carry it out. This person obviously hadn't read where Jesus said "let the children come unto Me... for such is the kingdom of heaven."

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WHy did a fight break out on here for one questoins?


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WOW where did it go? Was it deleted by mods??? I'm sorry that happened, and again??? Sigh.

I think regarding Christians, with the Bible, well, it gives history of what was before God took the Jewish nation as his chosen people etc. There is also a verse in the Bible that states we are to warn ppl and even act as if they were in a house burning down, snatching them from the flames of hell, so to speak. I think many zealous Christians forget to be nice when trying to do that.. and sometimes, it is the only thing that reaches another... it does have a lasting effect as you all attest to since you have remembered that all this time! I wonder how many ppl remember the quiet Christians who do things for you, slowly adding to the showing of God's goodness to you? (not saying you don't)

I bet there are Christians in your life right now who are treating you kindly, and waiting to help you see the Christian way sometime in the future.

I think judging a whole faith, religion, denomination etc because of a select few is not a good thing. It is human nature though, to take the bad and attribute it to all...part of why so many of us are here at PC I think? We all have that tendency I think... depression does that too.

Again, I didn't see the fight, but anytime someone posts a thread with a question like it is, that can be a solicitation for countering (rather than fully supportive) posts. Don't you think?

TC

If I could change the word hate I would But cant so have to go with it like that.

You are going to be ok. You are open to the religion interpretation that comes down from wiccans. It was provide you with support and get you to the next place that you have to go to. Trust the path you chose, letting it be the earth below and sky above, traveling it lightly and breathing and doing the next thing that helps and heals. If you come into opportunities that are evolving to other things to ponder, being willing to hear and see them it will go well on the journey. Moving through time and space physically and spirtiually is being alert, alive and a learner. Love

Samantha, have you considered checking out a Unitarian Universalist church in your area? It might give you the spiritual sanctuary you need.

I attend one in Norfolk, VA. Ours is a "Welcoming" church, accepting of all lifestyles (in this case, the GLBT community). There's a Wiccan group that meets once a month and periodically conducts Sunday worship services. We have a Buddhist group, a military group (I'm a co-founder), Girl Scout troop, etc. I've had the opportunity to hear some wonderful speakers: a rabbi, a cleric, a Wiccan high priestess (who's at the UU seminary to become a reverand).

Please check out their national website, http://www.uua.org. You'll find love, acceptance, and a sense of community without any feelings of judgment.

Bloo

I keep thinking about this...and yes there is plenty of hate in the world. I think there is plenty of hate for anyone, in fact, too much. If I, as a Christian, wished to focus on those who hate me just becuase of that and fail to get to know me, yes I would be sad, and also upset.

I liked razeljenny's response, reminding all of us (if we choose to see it) to rise above the earthy misgivings of humans, and find the good and peaceful. There will always be complainers and haters, and those who have no harmony in their lives. Those of us who do have peace need to draw upon it as often as we can.

TC

I look at it as , if someone hates me for who I am , then I must be doing something right.
As long as I have faith, friends, and support I'll get by
Angie

I'm agnostic, and I have many friends of many faiths and non-faiths, including Wiccans, Christians, Pagans, Jews, atheists, freethinkers, Secular Humanists, Catholics, Muslims, witches, Buddhists, and even at least one Satanist.

Unfortunately, it's not a "select few" that push their religion and most of the ones I've seen are Christians. This is not all or most Christians, but there are many. I've also seen a lot of hate spewed from atheists. Again, not all or most, but many. I'm not singling out these two groups; I'm just saying what I've seen.

A lot of people don't even realize they're pushing their beliefs. They think they're being supportive, even. A person does not choose what they believe. You're either convinced of something, or you're not, or you're convinced of neither, both or all. I can tell you there's an invisible blue chicken right next to you. You can't choose to believe it if you really don't, in your heart, believe it. But, if you felt movement from that area, or heard a sound, you might be convinced something is there, and you might even believe it's an invisible blue chicken. Some people require more proof of things than others.

So, I just want to say to the original poster, disorders, that I have no problem whatsoever with you being Wiccan, and I even know quite a bit about your beliefs.

Thank YOU for sharing of your self...... and I too like or love a person based on who they are, and not that of what their religious faith is (or is not).

And... IMO - being a Christian myself, I would say "if Christians" some times come across as being pushy or pushing their religion onto another it is due to the fact of our belief system, that which we carry in Christ.... Christians believe in both a heaven and a h*ll (and) that all man kind will be sent to one or the other for eternity upon their passing, therefore, if we come across as being pushy it is simply because we care and do not wish to see any one we love go to h*ll.

... as with age - My Christian Faith has matured as well and with that I no longer push.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

Nevertheless, in America, we're supposed to respect others, and pushing your beliefs is not showing respect. It's easy to say, "I just don't want you to go to Hell," but if you don't believe in Hell, or don't believe you're going, it feels like harassment. I don't push you to deny your god, despite my beliefs that "He" may not exist. And I don't point out other things that I could until someone pushes their beliefs (Christian or otherwise) on me. You may mean it in a nice way, but an atheist could just as well argue that s/he feels you're wasting your life, denying yourself things you could have without harming anyone, etc.

And I understand.............................. I was just explaining (from a Christians side of the fence) - not pushing or excusing, and I personally feel that most of us learn NOT to do this as we mature in our walk.

LoVe,
Rhaqpsody - ((( hugs )))

Right, you guys. Respect is the key. I enjoy sharing my beliefs because I feel that they are the the highest gift that I could offer to people I care about. My beliefs mean a great deal to me, and I probably wouldn't even be around if I didn't have that. So if I tell someone about what I believe, it is in the spirit of "here is something that has helped me a lot and that I value very much - maybe it will help you too." It isn't meant to imply any put-downs or disrespect to anyone. However, we all need to keep in mind that although we value our beliefs highly, so do people who believe differently value their own beliefs. We may mean to be helpful, but if the message that they hear is that we disagree with what they have already found helpful and what makes sense to them, or if they feel like we are trying to get them to conform to our beliefs, values, standards, etc., it doesn't help and may feel disrespectful to them. Everyone is free to choose, and we can all learn from each other. It is fine to share our beliefs with those who are interested, but we need to be willing to listen just as much, and we need to be able to recognize when someone doesn't want to hear any more too. Sometimes the best way to share your beliefs is simply to live them.

It goes both ways. Some beliefs include more of a belief in spreading the word than others do, while others are more content to quietly find peace and enlightenment for themselves. This can be cultural as well as religious. Wiccans don't seem to proselytise much, and maybe because trying to gain converrts is not something that they emphasize or practice, they have less expectation of hearing others share their message. What do you think?

Certainly, though, Christians are not the only ones who proselytize. I have seen some (but not all) atheists get every bit as pushy as the pushiest Christian can be. That is every bit as offensive to someone who is happy with their own beliefs or just doesn't want to hear it. We all need to respect each other.

is it really hate or is it misguided fear ?

I think the reason MOST of those who are sharing their religion are Christians is because we ARE a Christian nation... 90% of the people believe in God, and 70% of them profess to be Christians. So of course the odds are in favor of someone who is Christian sharing their faith with you.

Maven said </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
an atheist could just as well argue that s/he feels you're wasting your life, denying yourself things you could have without harming anyone, etc.

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I am not denied anything because I am a Christian. Paul wrote that all things are lawful for me, yet all things are not expedient. If I deny myself anything it's because I've decided it isn't in my best interest. But I can do anything an atheist can do

AND just like the Islamists, we Christians have a mandate from God to share our faith. While I don't advocate shoving it down someone's throat, sometimes even the gentlest expressions of faith are taken as an attack by someone who is being spoken to (inside) by the Holy Spirit, and thus it is not the person that they are arguing with, but God Himself.

No, we are NOT a Christian nation. The majority does not define our country.

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The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion. - From the Treaty of Tripoli, which was signed during the term of George Washington and ratified by Congress during the term of John Adams.

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Sky, I didn't say you feel you can't do anything you want to do. I'm trying to express how an atheist can feel he is helping you, just as you feel it's helping someone to lead them to Christianity. In either position, it's wrong, and disrespects the other's beliefs.

Sharing a faith or a non-faith does not mean compelling others, nor does it mean pushing it. There's a difference.

An atheist isn't arguing with God, Goddess, Himself or Herself, if he doesn't believe in the being.

"It's not God I have a problem with, it's his fan club I can't stand."

Our historical heritage is just that, history.

I'm sorry that you seem to hold the emotion for me that this very thread is accusing others of having for wiccans: </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
"It's not God I have a problem with, it's his fan club I can't stand."

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I can "stand" others who have a belief apart from what I believe. I do wish that everyone would learn how to share their faith in an adult conversational way, but to expect that is illogical. For anyone to blame everyone for the confrontational ways of others, is less than progressive, imo.

What can I do so that you CAN stand me, regardless of what I believe as it pertains to what you believe?

Actually, that quote, which isn't my own, represent the experiences I've had, along with many of my friends. I don't hate all Christians, and I've said that. I've also said many are friends (and family). But things you've said are the same things that other Christians have said that offend many non-Christians. I think it was in another thread, that you said, essentially, that atheists are just people who haven't found God "(yet)." To put it bluntly, that's arrogant. It's saying, "I'm right, and you'll figure it out, eventually." Earlier in this thread, you suggested to disorders to find another earth religion that isn't so involved in witchcraft. That's belittling those who find nothing wrong with witchcraft, again as if to say, "I'm right, you're wrong. Why don't you just do something a little different?" and it implies that, if the person does that, they'll eventually find the way to your God.

This is not directed at any one member, but I must remind members NOT to hijack another person's thread looking for support for her Wiccan beliefs.

If you want to discuss other religions, that's fine. But the main point of *this* thread, right here, is NOT to discuss other religions, but to offer support to someone who feels nobody understands their religious beliefs, which are wiccan.

Please respect the original poster's thread and topic. Any further replies that I consider off-topic to this thread will be removed.

Thanks,
DocJohn

AND....... I will once AGAIN ask all members who participate in this forum to REMEMBER that it is a forum to offer support to one another for one's own particular beliefs.

It is NOT to challenge or otherwise call into question each other's beliefs or thoughts about a particular religion. If you want religious debate, go elsewhere.

If we need to keep reminding members of this rule, this forum will be closed. I and the rest of the team are tired of repeating ourselves on this issue.

DocJohn

Thanks DocJohn for your reminders.

OK, disorders, I think we already have an understanding but I would ask this anyway, again </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
What can I do so that you CAN stand me, regardless of what I believe as it pertains to what you believe?

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Of course I want the same considerations as all, without having to hide my beliefs. But isn't much of this also being secure in what you believe so that what another says doesn't really affect you?

I don't have a problem with people who believe differently, as long as they don't push it on me. That includes making laws; laws should be as open as possible to allow all beliefs.

As many have said to disorders, it helps to educate those who will listen. Being open about your beliefs may draw out others who are hiding or shy about their beliefs, even if not Wiccan. If you wear a pentacle, and they tease you about it, you might point out to them that Christians (since you say most of them are) used this same symbol to represent Jesus once. This was done when they were trying to convert the Pagans.

Maybe you could talk to your school about a class or a seminar (what are those events that take place in the auditoriums called again?) on all religions and non-religions. Of course, that will depend on your school's policy of involving religion. I'm for separation of church and state, but I believe there can be classes on religion without proselytizing.

I totally agree that this is NOT a Christian nation. The U.S. has no default religion. It's made up of individuals who, gratefully, are free to practise their own beliefs.

I like the Dalai Lama's stance - which is to never push anyone into becoming a Buddhist. He says that if you are Jewish, just be a good Jew. If you are Christian, just be a good Christian, etc. Seems to have worked out for the Buddhist faith for over 2500 years.

em

I am new here but your post caught my eye. I am not wiccan, I am a christian, but I don't hate you or anyone else I don't share the same beliefs with. I care for you and all others. To do otherwise would not be very "christian"... I can love and care for people I don't share the same belief system with. I am sorry you feel unloved. I hope some of us can change those feelings.

Carri

i hope that we can make you feel more comfortable. i certainly do not hate any belief that anyone has. i'm comfortable with my beliefs and since i am, shouldn't i be comfortable with yours? xoxoxo pat

Hi there disorders. I'm just responding to your first post because it caught my eye. I just wanted to let you know that I don't dislike anyone because of their religion. I dislike things like hatred and intolerance. I've read quite a bit about your religion. I find it interesting and I respect the strong connection with nature. I don't believe there's anything EVIL about it. Some people will jump to conclusions, though. They don't want to take the time to learn about someone else's beliefs. They would rather just come from a place of fear and judge you. Unfortunately, you cannot control those people or their reactions to you.

If you believe something strongly, you need to find strength in that and yourself -- and accept that there will always be narrow-minded people who will want you to change. Changing just to "fit in" or escape judgment isn't being true to onself though, IMO. I don't like it when people try to force their beliefs on me. I expect people to have enough respect for me to trust that I know my own mind well enough to know what I believe. I'm not misguided. By the same token, I don't expect anyone to share my beliefs. To each his own, is my philosophy. As long as a person's beliefs don't do harm to others, I'm all for diversity of beliefs.

I don't ascribe to any religion... and some people judge me for that, but I'm okay with their judgments. I respect all people who have kindness and compassion in their hearts and treat others with empathy. I respect open-mindedness. For me, life is all about learning new things and meeting new people. Life would be pretty boring if everyone had the same beliefs. We are all individuals. We have unique minds, unique experiences, unique thoughts -- so it's inevitable that our beliefs will vary.

Try not to let what other people think bother you. I know it's hard, but there will always be closed-minded people who will want to change you. You're your own person, though. What you believe is your choice. Your beliefs need to come from inside of you.

Cheers.