Oh no, what have i done...

Anything that I say has worked for me, may or may not work the same way for someone else.

So it's a combination of someone else telling you, and you concluding it for yourself?

If you ever got the idea -- let's say, just for a few minutes -- that not everything might be your fault, would you feel free to think that and try it on for a while to see how it suited you, or would you expect something bad to happen to you for daring to think things like that?

I guess I'm asking, do you even have room to think about whether it's your fault or not, or do you already know ahead of time what answer you're supposed to get?

Something bad would probably happen. If I start lying even to myself, bad things would happen. Lying to other people is bad, and I still have to do it sometimes. Lying to myself would be horrible. There's nothing to "suit" me, it's just the way it is.

I know it's my fault. I look back at it, and there's always some way that I could have helped, if not erased, the situation. I have plenty of "room" to think about it, if I want something else even worse to happen for karma, like me finally ending up in the psych ward and making my family poorer than before.

So what you're saying is, (a.) you're convinced those things are all your fault; (b.) you're so sure they are, that if you even stopped to imagine that they might not be, it would count as lying and (c.) you'd get in some kind of trouble for it.

It sounds like someone (we're not sure who yet) wants real badly for it to be your fault. And whoever it is, even though they don't sound as if they like you very much, you'd still rather keep showing you're on their side just in case that keeps them from getting even madder at you.
Meaning, it sounds like, no room at all: don't think about it -- or else!

By the way, have you ever tried not to think of a white elephant (or a red ball, or a yellow Jeep) for 15 minutes or so?

Wow, you are a big powerful person. You are everyone and mean everything to everyone all at the same time and everywhere. Without you it sounds like your family absolutely could not function? Makes me tired just thinking about you. Are you the oldest?

That's not true. I'm not powerful at all. If I were to go away, a lot of things would be better for my family. They would "function" much better without me there. (They just seem rather attached to me, for no particular reason. ) I'm second oldest, but the oldest girl. My brother is 14 and isn't that mature...He thinks he is, and that he should always be in charge if neither of the parents are here, but he never does anything but yells and sends people to their rooms. (And he cries a lot in front of people....I cry too, but at least I have the sense to not do it in front of my dad! )

Yes, FoolZero, that is what I'm saying. I don't think anyone wants me to be always to blame, I think that's just the way it is.

Yes, I have. It's rather easy. I go onto my cloud. Wouldn't you?

So if you aren't powerful how can you affect everyone and everything they do all the time?

I don't affect everyone all the time....I just know I could have fixed it. Or that it was directly my fault.

(((((((Lizabelle))))))))...you are doin so good to be reaching out.if you ever need to sit and chat about whatever ...find me...WO.olfy

You are a kid but you were supposed to fix it? Don't the adults have any responsibility in your household?

Thanks, wolfy. I'm glad someone thinks so...

Well, Sannah, they do. They have more than they should, actually. They have to take care of us, and they have to cook (most of the time) and they have to do bills, and figure out how to pay for our food. But they hold us responsible for some things too.
When I have asked my mom or my dad, they say that I need to learn how to be a kid, and not try to be so responsible. But when it comes to "they need someone for a job" or "who's available if they don't have *too* much homework", I always feel bad if I don't automatically volunteer. And if I was a "kid" all the time, I would feel bad because I know that I am hurting them when I misbehave. I really don't know what to do about it. I "need to be a kid", but I am also the go-to person when something needs doing. The occasional times that I want to say no, I always feel guilted into it by my dad. Most of the time, I don't, but when he does that, I have a even harder time saying no. And then, if me or my mom brings it up then or later, he denies it, saying that he was "just asking".
It doesn't matter, anyways. Not really. I'm not even 100% certain how we got on this topic.....

We got on this topic because you blamed yourself for where you are at and I questioned you and then you blamed yourself for all the problems in your entire household!

So it seems that your parents are overwhelmed and they rely on you to be the 3rd adult? Yeah, it is okay for children to help, especially when the adults are being responsible (but not when they aren't being responsible too!). You helping is one thing but you thinking that you are the cause for all the problems in your household is quite another thing! It is like you have made everyone else not responsible for problems and you have taken all the blame for every problem in the entire household. Really, think about it. This isn't rational. Why would you be the only person in the entire household responsible for all of the problems!

You know what, I can explain some child development to you that might help you to understand how this thinking can evolve. Young children believe that they are the center of the universe. They cannot conceive that most things have nothing to do with them because their minds are not developed enough to perceive the big picture. All that they can gather in their minds is themselves and things around them and they believe that they affect everything around them. As a person matures mentally and emotionally they come to realize that they are only one person and they just aren't that big or powerful to affect everything around them. The truth is, most things have nothing to do with one individual. Sure, things that pertain to them they affect, but most things, a single individual has no hand in it. So your thinking now is like you are the sun and everyone else revolves around you. In reality, your parents are the suns in your household, not a child!

So, I assume you are a young teenager? Why didn't you pass by this developmental stage and realize that most things have nothing to do with you? Maybe because your parents rely on you too much? Do they talk to you like an adult and tell you about all of their problems and stressors? I hope that I have made sense with all of this.

It is like you are the pack donkey carrying everything for the whole family. Other people can be responsible too you know. This really is affecting your development. No child needs to carry this much responsibility for the whole family. (And I want to seperate household responsibilites from you thinking that you are responsible for all problems. Children do need to help so please don't take what I have said to mean that you shouldn't help around the house. I'm mostly talking about you feeling that you are responsible for all of the problems.)

Well, sometimes they do, but not always. I know that I'm not the only one to blame- I know that it's other people's fault too. But it always seems like I could have done something to help, or I was part of the original problem.

I know they are....I don't feel like everyone relies on me or anything, or that I'm important. I just feel like I could have always helped in some way, and when I think about it, that's usually true.

Yes, I am...I'll PM you if you want to know my age. They do talk to me about their stressors and problems sometimes, and I enjoy it. It means that they treat me like an adult in some ways, and it gives me a chance to talk about my problems without feeling guilty for burdening them. Yes, you've made sense.

I understand- don't worry, even my 6 year old sister still has to feed the dog or something as a chore.

Maybe you just feel helpless when there are problems and you just wish that you could do something? I really hope that you still don't think that you cause all the problems around you. Doesn't it stress you out when you hear about all of your parent's problems?

Sannah...I cried when I read the child development thing.I am 43...and here I sit stunted and at that same place that a 13 year old walks in...I was on my own at 13...and was my moms mom my whole life.It isn't fair ...it just is.Gah Lizabelle I was gunna post a really grown up thing...try to help...but I am stuck crying for you.Cause I relate?...wanna rescue your burdens?...be there if you need someone?...shaz ...I can't even answer that.I just know my heart is grieving for you.I must say though...if I had half the sense you possess at your age ...or ...hell even now...I'd be ahead of the game of life.Dammit....why am I crying...I have no clue.Cyber hug for you!! ~~~WO.olfsong P.s A young person of your age simply is not structured properly mentally/emotionally to carry these herculean burdens of heart and character...it isn't what your stage of life should entail...and yes I see that obviously should doesn't have a factoring presence in the scheme of things...please receive some outside therapy and organize these issues whilst you are still forming...cause if u don't they will become schemas to be hashed out in middle age therapy sessions....((((((((Lizabelle))))))))

Lizabelle,
Right now you are very depressed and not thinking clearly. That's what this awful illness does.
Extreme guilt is a symptom of depression. Meaning you feel guilty and responsible for things you had nothing to do with. I don't think that means that you think the world revolves around you or that you can control everything, simply a distortion.
I often felt like I "shoulda coulda woulda" done something that I didn't or that I "broke myself" somehow. Thinking like that is fruitless and painful. I can't pin point the second my problems started or the exact reasons why. While causes need to be found for issues to be resolved, regreting and beating yourself up for the past does no good.
Growing up is hard. I'm not done yet, but I know it sucks even without depression. But you can do it!
I hope that you can get to a T and get the help that you need. This isn't something you want to do alone. It's NOT your fault that you are sick and you need help to get better.
Pleas keep us posted, Liz. And keep talking! Sometimes it can really help.

Wolfy- It's ok!! Sometimes the best thing that anyone can do for me is not hide behind "being a grownup/being older than me". I know what it's like to have an aching heart for someone; lots of people, actually. Cyber hug back! And sense?.....what sense?..... Thanks so much for your support, it really means a lot to me, all of you. ((((((((wolfy)))))))))

Thine- Exactly! That's what I've been kinda trying to say. I don't think that I'm important or that the world revolves around me.
I'm trying to get some sort of T....sent an email to the local NAMI today, asking whether they offer therapy sessions for 10-14 year olds.
I'll try to keep you posted- I'm not sure yet, but I think that DocJohn has told me to stay out of the chat rooms. So until he replies to my PM, this is all I've got. Not that you guys aren't great (you are!!!!), it's just nice sometimes to be able to talk to people in real time, you know?

Good work Liz!

Thanks!

(Sorry, I forgot to answer this one.)
I do feel helpless a lot, nearly all the time. I'm not totally convinced either way.....And no, not really. Just like when I go into chat to listen to people's problems and try to help, or in the forums. My heart aches for them, but I try to just help as much as I can, and then I let it go. (Most people don't realize that about me on here- long story. )