[TishaBuv]

I had a falling out with my FOO. It’s happened before last year too. My issue with them is they are callous and cruel. It was me to call them and call back in line continuing to act like nothing happened thus continuing the cycle of abuse.

I didn’t do that this time. So now there’s no more relationship at all. At least one sister is making some effort with the whole family by sending a group text regarding a recall of lettuce. I didn’t respond. My aunt said something snippy.

So it looks like I won my pride but I lost my family.

But it was a toxic relationship anyway.

I know I contributed to the toxicity.

It hurts immensely how they are so willing to never call me again and how they refused to treat me with respect.

Is there any way for me to have a healthy relationship with them?

[unaluna]

IMO, it shouldnt feel like one side won and the other side lost. Each side should give in a little. To me, when your sister said, "lets not talk about it anymore", i took that to mean, to put it in the past and forget it. My brother holds stuff against me that i said 20, 30, 40 years ago, whether ive apologized for it or not. But ive discovered that hes said worse. So there is no relationship.

[TishaBuv]

I agree. It shouldn’t feel like a winner or loser. Both should give. But I was as always the only one who gave. My sister judged me harshly and inaccurately. When she said not to speak of it again, she left it at I was completely at fault, she took pot shots at me and then shut it down. We decided to maintain benign contact rather than estrangement. The rest of the family is fine with estrangement unless I call and act like nothing happened continuing the same game that’s been ongoing.

What is a long distance family relationship supposed to be? This is sure not appealing to me.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

...
What is a long distance family relationship supposed to be? This is sure not appealing to me.

This reminds me of when my bff's brother came by to buy her a drink on her birthday. I was like, this is SO nice of him! My brother would NEVER do anything like this, drive so far after work, etc etc!

She and i were apartment neighbors. Turned out, my brother lived like a mile away from her brother.

To some people, being family means something. I guess! To me, all it ever meant was, "watch out!"

[TishaBuv]

Yes, some people are just blessed with good families.

I’m thinking back to everything that happened with my sisters, all the family history. I didn’t do anything wrong, not really wrong. There was always desire to have a good relationship with them.

The things they threw at me they felt were my wrong doings were really from left field. The only whole nature of my family just wasn’t really warm and caring. There were times it was then times it wasn’t. Strange behavior.

It’s my fault to be wanting these people to be something they aren’t.

I gave polite response to the text. That’s all we will be. That’s good enough. That’s all a healthy long distance family relationship is.

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I had a falling out with my FOO. It’s happened before last year too. My issue with them is they are callous and cruel. It was me to call them and call back in line continuing to act like nothing happened thus continuing the cycle of abuse.


I didn’t do that this time. So now there’s no more relationship at all. At least one sister is making some effort with the whole family by sending a group text regarding a recall of lettuce. I didn’t respond. My aunt said something snippy.


So it looks like I won my pride but I lost my family.


But it was a toxic relationship anyway.


I know I contributed to the toxicity.


It hurts immensely how they are so willing to never call me again and how they refused to treat me with respect.


Is there any way for me to have a healthy relationship with them?

My honest opinion... I don’t think a healthy relationship is possible based on what you’ve shared here...

I’m starting to think healthy family relationships are few and far between.

If I could go back and redo some things in my life... many things... I would probably be less communicative and tell more polite lies and give polite excuses... and keep my distance...

Your emotional and mental health is worth far more than trying to make a toxic relationship healthy... just my straightforward opinion that I’m trying not to be so straightforward about IRL....

[TishaBuv]

Now I’m just in a crappy mood over this whole thing. I put up boundaries and my family didn’t allow it. So now I have nothing with them. Even though it wasn’t ever healthy, it was all I knew.

My mom tagged me in some photo on Facebook yesterday. Her passive aggressive way to try to manipulate me into conversation without actually calling me. I deleted it.

I feel so unliked and so unimportant. I’m also bored from withdrawal from the Game of Phones. Even though it was unhealthy. It was the relationship we had. It was stimulating, if that makes sense.

My husband and kids are together this weekend. I’m trying to enjoy being in the moment and new experiences.

Hope you overcame the mood and found some happy moments--I find my mood improves when I take a break from the person/people that made me feel that way.

Sometimes, even though I know it causes me stress, I can only stay away so long because I feel obligated to people in my family. I think to myself, if I am not there for them, who will be? So the push and pull will go on forever but my psych drugs do take the edge of it for me....

[TishaBuv]

I’m the difficult person. They need to get away from me. I laid down the law about how I need to be treated and they can’t because that’s just not who they are. So I’m holding firm and keeping to myself. I’ll try to get over the sadness and do something productive with my life.

I really didn’t ask for much. Just a little respect and compassion from my FOO, and for my husband to take the lead in the bedroom. Nope, it was a duel to the death. Is it me? Would other people have been like this?

[Buffy01]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I had a falling out with my FOO. It’s happened before last year too. My issue with them is they are callous and cruel. It was me to call them and call back in line continuing to act like nothing happened thus continuing the cycle of abuse.

I didn’t do that this time. So now there’s no more relationship at all. At least one sister is making some effort with the whole family by sending a group text regarding a recall of lettuce. I didn’t respond. My aunt said something snippy.

So it looks like I won my pride but I lost my family.

But it was a toxic relationship anyway.

I know I contributed to the toxicity.

It hurts immensely how they are so willing to never call me again and how they refused to treat me with respect.

Is there any way for me to have a healthy relationship with them?

I'm sorry that they are repeatedly the abuse again. I think that they are using that as an excuse to mobbed and harassed you. I don't think that it will get any better. It might be best to cut off ties with them.

[Buffy01]

Originally Posted by unaluna

IMO, it shouldnt feel like one side won and the other side lost. Each side should give in a little. To me, when your sister said, "lets not talk about it anymore", i took that to mean, to put it in the past and forget it. My brother holds stuff against me that i said 20, 30, 40 years ago, whether ive apologized for it or not. But ive discovered that hes said worse. So there is no relationship.

Sometimes the best thing is leave toxic people alone.

I went NO CONTACT with mine long ago.

It's a very difficult thing to do, but ...

When our physical and emotional well-being are at play then it's the correct choice.

[katydid777]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I had a falling out with my FOO. It’s happened before last year too. My issue with them is they are callous and cruel. It was me to call them and call back in line continuing to act like nothing happened thus continuing the cycle of abuse.

I didn’t do that this time. So now there’s no more relationship at all. At least one sister is making some effort with the whole family by sending a group text regarding a recall of lettuce. I didn’t respond. My aunt said something snippy.

So it looks like I won my pride but I lost my family.

But it was a toxic relationship anyway.

I know I contributed to the toxicity.

It hurts immensely how they are so willing to never call me again and how they refused to treat me with respect.

Is there any way for me to have a healthy relationship with them?

I had problems with my disfunctional family all of my life. A little over 2 years before my mom passed away, we lost our home, and moved all of our things to my parents house. I had yard sales by the road, by there place. One of thoes days my mom showed up, said I stoled somthing from her, it turned out she misplaced it. Anyway she caused me major imbaresment, and told me she was going to call the cops on me. That was it for me. I use to send them $, and packages that I knew my mom would like, like jewerly, parfum, knick knacks, ect. I was the black sheep, I was the one that was always stayed out of troble, and made good grades. Before that insident, I did everything I could bc I just wanted my mom to love me! After she acused me, and said she was going to call the cops on me, I didn't have much to do with them. We moved in with my H's mom, but it only lasted a few days, she decided she wanted to go live with her sister. Anyway when we returned to the town my parents lived in, I called, and my dad said my mom was bad off, in the hospital, and on a ventalator. I took care of my dad, and went to see my mom. I found all of my sibling's phone#s, called, and stayed untill they got there. It wasn't but maybe a couple days, and I became the black sheep again. So I was out of there. My mom got better, except she had a minor stroke while she was on the ventalator. My dad was already in a wheelchair bc he had a stroke a few years back. After my mom was doing better, she told everyone I stole from her. I didn't talk with my parents, and most of my siblings from then on. My mom passed on a Friday the 13th in a January 2 years later. A couple years later my dad was on his death bed, and my oldest Sister convinced me to go see him. As I was there my dad told me he was sorry. I didn't know what for, there were so many things. We only stayed a few hours, and my dad passed a few days later. That I think was when I found out what he was sorry about. I have 5 siblings, and I was the main one who gave my parents a whole bunch of $, and difarent things, my H fixed so many things for them. Anyway I was taken out of there will, and the will said I know why. I never did understand why they hated me so much, I gave them so very much, and all I wanted was to know that they cared. My moral is, you may be better off, and less hurt if you leave things as they are.

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I’m the difficult person.

You've been through difficult times and it is not in your nature to let things go (it seems like you are the type of person who stands up for things you believe in). Perhaps they could be considered just as difficult but won't admit it? (The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. ) Even if you do have a difficult side--you must know there is so much good too!

Originally Posted by Sisabel

If I could go back and redo some things in my life... many things... I would probably be less communicative and tell more polite lies and give polite excuses... and keep my distance...

I feel the same way about some of the times I have been way to open about all the doubts and craziness going on in my head. I probally told my children way too much--just shouldn't have burdened them. And to others who didn't need to know might have looked out of my mind or just plain odd. Perhaps those in my family with whom things get uncomfortable are also dealing with their own issues. I hope that I haven't screwed things up too badly.

[TishaBuv]

I did myself nothing but damage too by opening my big, stupid mouth. This honesty didn’t get me happiness or peace. It just gave me a bad reputation among the people who are supposed to love me. It gave them cannon fodder to hurl at me.

At least I didn’t have run ins with the rest of society.

It’s so logical— if your FOO was toxic enough to form a personality “disorder” in you, there’s no way continuing to deal with them can be healthy.

If a patient/client goes to a therapist and toxic relationships are discussed, the therapist might as well immediately say how those relationships are most likely unsalvagable and inform how they will be ending. It’s inevitable!

[TishaBuv]

If I “win” my self esteem and sanity, I lose my family.

Mom called today. She still insists I said the ‘F you’ comment as I tried to get her to accept that I didn’t. She says she did nothing wrong and wants me to just call her and ask how she is. I told her how my husband calls it the Game of Phones and it’s so toxic. She twisted and turned and ranted how I hate and want her to die rather than be a loving daughter— “Is that what you want?”, she asked.

I said I would love to have a healthy, loving relationship with my mother, but I don’t know where to go from here. I am not going to act like nothing happened, I am not going to accept her discounting and invalidating me (as also did the whole family) and I am not going to be abused and get sucked back in to more of the same. The truce can’t last!

I said I’d like to have more conversation but with other people there because she twists and turns everything and we don’t get anywyere.

She just wants it dropped and for me to play her game.

Eh, the whole family turned to crap. My aunt just had a memorial ceremony for my uncle and didn’t even let me know where and when. Too much bad blood now. I had even mentioned to her that we could have come to that town and gone to it a couple months ago when he passed, but she wrote me off along with the rest of them. I’d have had enough class to send flowers or a platter. Oh well...

No one thinks I have any class after I once did use the F bomb to one of them because I went off because I have PTSD. So I’m done.

Was I wrong yet again? Should I have contacted my aunt and asked about the memorial? Shouldn’t someone have sent some message to anyone who might be interested in the date/time in advance?

I’m upset my mom even told me about it. See, her Game of Phones got me already! It’s making me feel like I should reach out to my aunt about it, but I’m not going to do anything.

Just breathe..................................

[TishaBuv]

I called my sister and did talk about what happened again after my mom called.

My sister’s account is her daughter told her she and I had the argument and that she apologized, thought everything was cool, but then I got mad and told her off. She omitted to tell my sister that she had unfriended me (which was the whole reason I was hurt).

When my sister called me three days after it happened, that’s when I told her about the unfriending and that’s why I was upset. But sadly I dropped the F bomb, which exploded on ME. My sister insists I said “F you and your whole family”. After that call, all my sister felt was mad at me for saying that and stewed about how I needed to call her to apologize.

As far as learning that her daughter had hurt me deeply with the unfriending, she did nothing to discuss it with her and remedy the situation for my well being. She only cared about me calling to apologize.

My sister denied discussing it with our mother. Yet somehow Mom says that I told her, “F you, F your whole family. Don’t ever call me again!” So, obviously my sister related the story with the false quote, which got into my mother that I had actually said that to HER.

So, when I went over the events again with my sister, she said “uh huh” as I spoke, probably still feeling quite sure I was lying or incorrect about what I said and I AM NOT. She told me she apologized and that I would not accept her apology. That’s not true. If she said she was sorry at all, she may have said she was sorry the incident happened. She distinctly said she did nothing wrong and blamed everything on me. She also denied that she was she was “done with this whole F’n family” and SHE DID.

I know I am not losing my mind. I know what was and wasn’t said. Such gaslighting!

So, that must be people’s nature. She heard a slanted report from her daughter and formed a negative opinion of me. She berated me. I defended myself revealing the whole matter which is what upset me. Unfortunately for me, I was overly emotional and added the “you and your daughter can go F yourselves” (because I do have emotional issues ). Then her only thought was how rude of my sister to say F to me, she better apologize or I won’t ever speak to her again. And she didn’t call me for 6 weeks. And I didn’t call her again because I felt she didn’t care about me and didn’t want to have anything more to do with me.

[here today]

I have come to the conclusion that the dynamics amongst the females in my FOO are/were damaged/sick beyond repair. I ended up trying to stand up to them around my mother's terminal illness. I thought it was important to do that, still do.

But I didn't do it "well". I did lose them. It was, and still is, excruciating.

I'm 71, so it is what it is. Relations with my daughter are somewhat strained, too -- but she never had "real me" for a mother, so it's taking some time. Plus she learned the damaged/sick dynamics, too, so. . .

Nevertheless, that's where I'm putting my focus now. Trying to be/have an "authentic" independent ego and model that for her, too.

I feel for you, identify often with what you write, and think I understand some of where you are coming from. Enmeshment sucks. Narcissism sucks. Knowing who one is in that kind of environment, knowing who one can trust (no one) and who one can't (everybody) and yet needing those people. . .sucks.

I still love them, though. Even dead or estranged -- maybe the lack of focus about winning or losing makes that more clear. Still can't get along with them, though, on a personal level. At least not yet.

[TishaBuv]

I called Mom, which is now the last time, hoping to find some compromise. I said I wanted to call her, but she’s not going to be happy with me in that I need to resolve this because I’m losing my mind over being accused of saying something I didn’t and being so disrespected and dismissed.

I asked, “Did you ever consider you may be mistaken? Have you ever known me to be a liar?” It turned ugly immediately and ended in 5 minutes with her hurling insults at me and me saying “Your words can’t hurt me”.

Then Dad called (her flying monkey). “Don’t ever call here again upsetting Mom like this. She’s going to have a heart attack!” I agreed that I wouldn’t call again. He hung up on me.

Yes, it’s narcissism. I know it must be on my part too. I can’t tolerate the disrespect and invalidation. I’ve put up with it too long and always got sucked back in for more. This time I stood up for myself, but had to end the relationship with the whole family over it. My dad only cares about what makes life easier for him, as do my sisters. I get it. I guess when you deal with a person like my mom, you want to avoid confrontation at all costs. I was faultily thinking that if we had a united front against her abuse, we could stop it and it would even make her happier to be healthier. Was thinking that so off?

I’m pretty ok from this last altercation actually. I’m trying to do what all the psychological articles say. Walk away. Find nice friends. Be grateful for my husband and kids and try to have a healthy relationship with them.

It’s so sad how all I asked of my mom was to consider she was mistaken and acknowledge she hurt my feelings. That turned into instant rage. Of course that doesn’t make sense. She really must have NPD. She said, “It’s too stupid for me to think about. I never gave it a second thought.” I said, “So I have been so hurt and upset over this for months, and you never gave it a second thought?” She didn’t quite answer, then went on the rage rant ... She said there was a whole discussion with my niece about how I had no right to respond to the post anyway, as it was not addressed to me. My niece told her it was meant for her friends and I am her aunt, not her friend. I said, there was never any discussion with ME included, and how on facebook we are all “friends”, so the post that said “If any of my friends...” I took to mean me. Mom said it was too stupid to even discuss and she wouldn’t give it another thought. I said I am not going to be invalidated like that— KABOOM from Mom.

[unaluna]

I think your niece has a good point there. My politics are like hers. I have a cousin whose politics are like yours. I had to ask my cousin to remove me from her mailing list because i didnt like getting anti-obama jokes. I suppose we both think we are superior to each other (my cousin and i), but so what? We just know not to talk politics with each other.

Thats why they call it "friends and family". Dont let mark zuckerberg dictate your life!

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by unaluna

I think your niece has a good point there. My politics are like hers. I have a cousin whose politics are like yours. I had to ask my cousin to remove me from her mailing list because i didnt like getting anti-obama jokes. I suppose we both think we are superior to each other (my cousin and i), but so what? We just know not to talk politics with each other.

Thats why they call it "friends and family". Dont let mark zuckerberg dictate your life!

A good point in regards to what? I don’t understand your comment. That I am family and not her friend? I didn’t know what was in her mind when she posted. Because on facebook we are all called “friends”, I took her post to mean everyone. Plus, I don’t have ANY “politics”. I kept an open mind regarding the Kavanaugh hearing and was really triggered by her comment.

I know the family rift would have happened over any stupid thing eventually. It’s just a reflection of the bad dynamics in my family.

I am disordered, they are disordered, we all are disordered!

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I asked, “Did you ever consider you may be mistaken? Have you ever known me to be a liar?” It turned ugly immediately and ended in 5 minutes with her hurling insults at me and me saying “Your words can’t hurt me”.

It’s so sad how all I asked of my mom was to consider she was mistaken and acknowledge she hurt my feelings. That turned into instant rage.

She sounds disordered and defensive. She feels backed into a corner and it activated a "FIGHT or flight" reaction and it has all just become to automatic.

One of the things that makes me take more medication is because I know I can't help my son unless I can be consistently patient with him and more clearly see what I need to do when an opportunity presents. We can only try to make less mistakes in our relationships but cannot make others be a certain way. No one won. I am sorry.
Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by Nowinners

She sounds disordered and defensive. She feels backed into a corner and it activated a "FIGHT or flight" reaction and it has all just become to automatic.

One of the things that makes me take more medication is because I know I can't help my son unless I can be consistently patient with him and more clearly see what I need to do when an opportunity presents. We can only try to make less mistakes in our relationships but cannot make others be a certain way. No one won. I am sorry.
Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood

Yes, the slightest criticism, which was me saying she was mistaken about what I said, made her feel attacked and defensive. She then goes off on a rant, taking it somewhere way off topic, smoke and mirrors to avoid the issue. I’m sure this is NPD!

There are no psychological articles I can find about family relationships where two or more have disorders. For you, both you and your son are having individual issues. For me, my mother, both sisters, and me all have some issues going on. I’m not sure who’d be diagnosed, but c’mon, we’re so dysfunctional! Dealing with this is exponentially more difficult than with only one disordered person.

[here today]

To me, it's more like "narcissistic dysfunction" than just one person with a "diagnosed" disorder. People can't/don't develop a strong, realistic sense of self (ego) in the kinds of family environment that you describe, and that I had, too.

But I've not found anything on the internet or the psychology/psychotherapy literature that I have accesss to that offers any real "solution" or path to "health" that makes sense to me.

Intellectually, it seems to me the challenge is to develop a "healthy ego" somewhere else. I was too damaged, maybe, for therapy as it exists currently and over the last 50 years to help much. Instead, due to its limitations, it introduced other dsyfunction IMO.

So, intellectually, it seems to me that ego develops in a social environment that includes not only (relationships with) parents but an entire -- well, tribe, community, extended family. And when that whole thing is toxic -- well, the results can be. . .not so good.

What is a "healthy" ego or sense of self? And how does it develop?

Currently, the main thing therapists have been focusing on is attachment, and I think that is way too limited.

If therapists can't help us, what can? My focus currently, for me, is support groups. I'm finding what works for me and what doesn't. And in one group I'm in right now, if I make a faux pas I'm not automatically looked on as a "bad guy". That's a real different experience for me.

If I can get "OK" -- even at my advanced age -- then maybe I have a chance to deal with the still-disordered people in ways that I don't get triggered myself. But that may be just a pipe dream.