"Fake it till you make it" or "Act as if"

Elysium · Apr 20, 2009, 08:06 PM

Hi Chaotic...

Don't have to much to offer, but I agree with some others that the "fake it till you make it" statement would set me off. I understand the concept, and yes I have even used the technique in certain situations, but to have a T tell me that this is what I should do would anger me!!

In regards to your husband. I hear you saying that you don't want to include him in your recovery when you say that you don't want his help. I think that this is okay, but just realize that not including him might put a further strain on your relationship. It already sounds strained with some of his behaviors you have written about.

Have you ever thought of taking him to a T session with you and having your T help you explain what you need from him during these times in your recovery? This might be helpful because you could get it across to him that you want to focus on this more so by yourself and that if you need him to be more a part of it, you will let him know. It could help him to know how best to cope himself during your recovery.

I hope I didn't step out of line here...it wasn't my intention.

I wish you the best of luck!!

chaotic13 · Apr 20, 2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysium3006

Have you ever thought of taking him to a T session with you and having your T help you explain what you need from him during these times in your recovery?

Elysium3 thanks your not out of line suggesting this. When I described my H's reaction..My T shook her head and mentioned something like, "His reaction to this would have been something we would have address in the session if he had chosen to participate." I had a very strong reaction to this statement but swallowed it during the session. I did later email my T to share it with her so she is clear on where I stand on this at the moment.

Obviously, a couples approach would be a good way to handle our relationship problems. But at this point...I'm not interested in this.

I H has refused to participate in therapy. In fact when I first started he would say derogatory comments about it. And even just a few months ago he make a joke to one of his friends about my therapy which REALLY pissed me off. Hence, my feelings that H is not trustworthy and I do NOT want to include him in ANY discussions of my past. I don't think he means it but he can be a real insensative jackass at times.

Also, the one and only time he met with my T, when he felt uncomfortable and guilty about his actions...he launch a full assult on me. Telling my T all kinds of really intimate and personal things about our relationship. This was really early in the process. I think I had only met with her 2x prior to his airing all stuff. I will not subject myself to this type of vulerabilty again. I was totally blindsided by his attack on me all the things I wasn't doing for him in the bedroom and how that was why he was VA everyone in the house. .

I can't do it. I know some people like couples sessions because they feel protected by their T. Not me. If H gets upset he just unloads everything and doesn't give a crap how it comes out or who he hurts in the process. My T can't protect me from him.

Sannah · Apr 21, 2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaotic13

But I don't want his help!

The only help that I was suggesting is that he do that touch exercise with you. I don't think that you have to really explain all that much. Tell him that you want to connect more with him during sex and that slowing things down like this is how you do it. This stuff is common for women.

I want to address and heal from this myself.

I know this feeling! Trust and rigid boundaries in order to protect yourself. Been there, done that.

Some things that I find triggering are not related to intimacy but instead are health related and he cannot do anything about them. And I haven't been able to find a way for me not to respond to them the way I do. I've talked to my T about this but.... I guess there is nothing that can be done to help me with this.

Triggers can be worked through. The first step is understanding what is being triggered and then defusing that trigger in therapy by talking about the past incidents until you have all of your feelings out surrouding them. You can also stop yourself when you are being triggered and tell yourself that it is from the past and that the present is different and that you are an adult now and you can handle things.

hyperarousal cascade. I also think my ADHD plays a role in amplifying this. My nervous system is REALLY sensative so little things like smell, touch, texture, sounds can quickly overwhelm me and I withdraw either physically or mentally.

This makes sense........

the body-orientation therapy idea might help me. From what I can get from just reading about it... it seems like a major component of this approach is getting you more aware of what your feeling, to hang in there and not just dissociate, and instead be able to distinguish sensations and learn to differenciate the past from the present.

Sounds like a good plan.........

If I could get myself more comfortable feeling and tolerating safe-touch it might make me less fearful of it, and it might not be so hyper and easily overwhelmed. Maybe the stimuli wouldn't feel so overwhelming and would be overall more managable.

Would the touch exercise with your husband fall under this?

Contriction comes when I start to be come overwhelmed and fearful of being unable to move or free myself or I get nervous that I will not remain in control of myself or what is being done to me.

Is this you getting triggered then?

..........

chaotic13 · Apr 21, 2009, 02:39 PM

Constriction comes when I start to be come overwhelmed and fearful of being unable to move or free myself or I get nervous that I will not remain in control of myself or what is being done to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sannah

Is this you getting triggered then?

Yes... I think this is trigger for me.. My mind-->body gets scared and prepared to fight to break free. I get very anxious because I am afraid that the situation is out of control and I will not be able to flee at any moment I feel like it. I've even had paranoid nightmare of being trapped under him and being crushed to death. I know this is totally silly, but paranoid thinking is not rationale thinking. I know some would suggest positional adjustments but... it doesn't seem to help... again as the energy elevates...its like my body absorbs it and I just get really hyper... shaky, the mental loop plays full blast. All I want to do is get away.

Yes I think this is a triggering event and not just being emotionally uncomfortable.

Quote:

Would the touch exercise with your husband fall under this?

I think I could work on this a bit with him outside the bedroom. I think I am trying to do this with the hug and kiss as I leave for work. But really I think for safe-touch to feel safe to me it needs to be non-sexual and the objective of the touch is not for him to get off on. It is for me to be able to lower my guard and risk focusing IN on the sensation instead of distracting or moving my focus away from the touch. I think at this point for me to try and focus IN, I would need to be totally confident that it would not lead to sex or that it would be done not to try and arouse me. I'm not sure these conditions could be met by H. I think a MT or someone trained and skilled in providing this type of touch with strict boundaries might be better.

But then again... I would have to trust a total stranger. IDK...I've just been kicking around the Body orientation therapy idea. No one in my area seems to do this type of treatment and my T really isn't familiar with how the touch component is done. I was just thinking if she could teach me the different awareness exercises... then maybe I could lead myself through them during a standard massage treatment. Not sure if it would really work, not sure if it would really help me or not, not sure if I could actually get myself to do it.

Thanks Sannah for helping me think through and do the problem-solving piece that I seem needing. Your questions have been very helpful.

Miri · Apr 21, 2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaotic13

What do you think when someone tells you this?

I had my T session this week and we were talking about my relationship with my H.
Short version:
We had a major issue occur last week where he uncovered some of my personal drawings two of which clearly were related to our relationship. He TOTALLY flipped out and in dealing with the situation... he asked me if I had been abused. When directly confronted with this question... I admitted that I had suffered some abuse in my childhood. I refused to discuss it with him in detail but I needed to let him know so he could appreciate that there were some other factors playing out in with me in addition to some of the stuff the two of us are dealing with.

When discussing this situation with my T and how I handled the situation, I mentioned that I think I said the right things to him but that.... I had no emotions to back it up. When I tried to look inside for how I was actually feeling during this emotional exchange... "there was nothing there." Even though I was trying to be honest and authentic in what I said to him.... I felt like I was just...saying the words or going through the motions. This bothered me a lot.

My T's response to this was, "Well sometimes you have to do what the 12-step program tells people with addiction to do... "Fake it or act as if you think you should until you feel that way." This statement really bothered me on two levels. 1) I have been working really hard to figure out what I am really, authentically feeling about stuff and trying to act accordance with that... I'm really good at FAKING it, I've done that all my life. 2) I didn't like being told to do something that an addict is told to do. I'm not an Addict or an Alcoholic. My father was the alcoholic, my brother is the one with substance abuse issues... I know I am being reactive and I am NOT IN ANYWAY judging people who have or are the process of overcoming these issues. I just IDK... I didn't like the ...fake it until you can make yourself feel it idea.

I'm just curious if any of your therapist/counselors tell you this?

Not exactly in those words, no, but to make this a little more concrete, think about hope. It's hard for us to feel hopeful, very, very hard. however, it's the kind of thing that you can play with in your own mind - if I act/think in a hopeful, as a person who is hopeful acts and thinks, then perhaps I will learn to embrace actually believing there is hope. that's a kind of faking it until you make it and i think that it's okay to do that when concerns yourself. I'm not sure faking it when it concerns someone else is such a good idea - risk of sending confusing and mixed messages. Your words could express one thing and your body language something else. Can you take your uncertainty back to your T and ask exactly how that statement would apply to your situation? Even the best T can reconsider things that they've said, having the best of intentions. And after all that, it's still up to you to be the final judge of what feels right. I think you asked an excellent question and by asking it, taking good care of yourself - bravo!

chaotic13 · Apr 21, 2009, 09:37 PM

Miri, I think you make a good point about trying to "act if" in your own thinking...You made me think of the Little Engine that Could"..."I think I can, I think I can, I know I can." Concept. If our thoughts and attitude can make a big difference in the outcome of a situation.

I don't know why I continue to treat myself this way. Other than... I would really like to have a healthy relationship with my H... So I keep trying to pushing myself
beyond my discomfort.

As I reflect on last week with a little more separation... I think I took one thing my T said and skewed it into something harmful. I've mention before, that for whatever reason, I then to force myself into doing things that I know are not in my best interests. I think I get some sick benefit from forcing myself to do things.

It is ME who takes comments like Fake it til you make it to a major extreme.

Miri · Apr 22, 2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaotic13

Miri, I think you make a good point about trying to "act if" in your own thinking...You made me think of the Little Engine that Could"..."I think I can, I think I can, I know I can." Concept. If our thoughts and attitude can make a big difference in the outcome of a situation.

I don't know why I continue to treat myself this way. Other than... I would really like to have a healthy relationship with my H... So I keep trying to pushing myself
beyond my discomfort.

As I reflect on last week with a little more separation... I think I took one thing my T said and skewed it into something harmful. I've mention before, that for whatever reason, I then to force myself into doing things that I know are not in my best interests. I think I get some sick benefit from forcing myself to do things.

It is ME who takes comments like Fake it til you make it to a major extreme.

I find that. too, Someone will make some casual comment and it feels like it expands inside my brain and takes over, not usually having a good outcome. I try so hard to avoid this and it's so hard! For me, it's usually associated with being manic - I'm bipolar as well as having DID - and some part of me takes something and puts it under a microscope, dissects it, etc., until it becomes a huge deal. Continue trying to be true to yourself, know what you need. Sometimes what your need will be to put something extra into a relationship because you want and need to improve that relationship. Still, I hope the benefits are higher than the cost and that it will lead to a lot less "Faking it!" Best of luck!

chaotic13 · Apr 22, 2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miri

Someone will make some casual comment and it feels like it expands inside my brain and takes over, not usually having a good outcome. I try so hard to avoid this and it's so hard!

YES!! I do this a lot...I think sometimes it is my way of keeping the anxiety loop going. Why I seem to want this----I don't know I do this. I like misery I guess.

I think part of my anger and then spiral with this one statement was because in my mind it linked me with my father. I didn't like the association my mind created.

Merlin · Apr 22, 2009, 12:05 PM

I think "act as if" is ok, as it's modifying our behavior and sometimes that is the necessary first step. But I refuse to "fake" emotions to satisfy someone else. I may, however, fake them to satisfy myself.

Sannah · Apr 22, 2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaotic13

I've even had paranoid nightmare of being trapped under him and being crushed to death. I know this is totally silly, but paranoid thinking is not rationale thinking. I know some would suggest positional adjustments but... it doesn't seem to help... again as the energy elevates...its like my body absorbs it and I just get really hyper... shaky, the mental loop plays full blast. All I want to do is get away.

This isn't silly at all! I have a bit of claustrophobia (my dad has it too) so I know the feeling of panic with all thought leaving!

I think for safe-touch to feel safe to me it needs to be non-sexual and the objective of the touch is not for him to get off on. It is for me to be able to lower my guard and risk focusing IN on the sensation instead of distracting or moving my focus away from the touch. I think at this point for me to try and focus IN, I would need to be totally confident that it would not lead to sex or that it would be done not to try and arouse me. I'm not sure these conditions could be met by H.

Now I can understand why you can't do that exercise right now. So you can't start a dialogue with your husband on this and explain to him what you need from him?

Thanks Sannah for helping me think through and do the problem-solving piece that I seem needing. Your questions have been very helpful.

You are so welcome Chaotic!

..........

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