Not doing well

LMo -

Oh, that's interesting about the ADD.

My husband never wanted to go to college. It is ironic, I lived in a family, with a father who didn't believe girls should go to college, and hubby grew up with parents who were both Ivy League graduates. I was begging to go to college. Hubby on the other hand was resisting his overpowering father trying to shove college down his throat. He went for a year. Actually, I did too, b/c my mother wanted me to go, but I wanted my father to want me to go, so I stopped after a year and went to work.

My husband has MANY wonderful qualities and skills also. It is painful, tiring and difficult to watch someone you love struggle. That's why you need to pat yourself on your back, or have an ice cream soda, for keeping your hands to yourself. Something, which I don't need to point out, I was unable to do!!! Well, I shouldn't be too hard on myself. You have a GREAT therapist, and I live in rural America, where fire hydrants and good therapists are both hard to find.

I saw Loretta Lynn's biography recently. I loved the part where she said, "Problems with Doo (her nickname for her husband) were always better than no problems without Doo."

It would seem that you and I agree with Loretta.

Hugs and love,

EJ

How are you doing today?

(((((((((((((((((( LMo ))))))))))))))))))

I think we tend to pick our partner because they are sensitive. People with mental health problems are very sensitive people.

You worry a lot because you love him.

That's a good strong bond to have.

Thinking of you.

thanks for thinking of me! I am ok today. Things haven't gotten any better, but I have been doing my best to stay as busy as possible to avoid dwelling on it. I realize that's not the healthiest way to solve a problem, but it feels basically unsolveable (by me) so I'm just trying to weather it out.

Thanks again

Lmo,
Sending you peace and much love. I wish I had more to contribute to help you feel better.

Best Wishes,
Zen

hope today is going better........xoxoxo pat

Not sure if I'm better or worse.

It has been 2 weeks since his "deadline" to either sign up for school or start applying for jobs. We went to T a few days before the "deadline" and she did a great job of emphasizing the importance of being fair to me. We hit the deadline and he hadn't done anything. We went back to T and agreed that the past is in the past, but what's important NOW is that he get on the stick. He said he still didn't know what he wanted to do, so we agreed that he would have 3 days to come up with a proposal -- either to continue not formally working but instead continue some of the house projects, or to come up with goals and timelines for job/school plans. Then T went on vacation. And H hasn't done anything -- in fact, he's gone back to sleeping and procrastinating.

I left the house this morning practically in tears - the kitchen was an absolute mess, even though on Sunday night it was spotless and I haven't eaten at home all week. When I walked in the door tonight after working a 10 hour day, the kitchen was still a mess and it was clear that he didn't do any of his house projects. "Ok," I thought, "maybe he's been looking for jobs or schools". But no.. he hadn't done that either. He said he slept and then couldn't figure out what he should be doing.

My parents will be here in 2 weeks. They already hate him, and they stress me out to no end about his lack of career direction. Now to make it worse, he will be unemployed with absolutely no plans. I know it's none of their business. But it either turns into nagging (which I don't need on top of everything) or is an enormous elephant in the room. Not to mention the fact that I'm worried that it has already been what, 3 months? since he was fired, and that I'm looking at another several months or years of him floundering without results.

But, we talked. I started the conversation with saying that I want to talk to him but I'd like to be able to do it without him feeling guilty and clamming up. The Wall o'Defense went up a little, but not as much as it used to, thanks to Lexapro. I explained that at work if I feel overwhelmed with too many things to do, it always helps to have my team lead prioritize my work. Well, that caused a bad reaction, because I then had to backpedal and explain that I don't consider myself to be his supervisor -- it was just an illustration. I then said that if I were at home and felt I had too much to do, I would probably ask HIM to help me prioritize, and I'd consider him to be helping me by doing so. That went over a lot better, and he said that if I'm really just trying to HELP him instead of his assumption that I was trying to boss him around, that he could see himself asking me to do that. Well of COURSE I'm trying to help him... does he not realize how frustrating it is to watch him struggle and not be allowed to help? Overall, though, it was a good conversation, and was indicative of how much better he is doing after 2 years of seeing our T and Lexapro -- the same conversation would have resulted in him going back to bed and crying/sleeping for the rest of the evening if it happened 2 years ago. So, two steps forward, one step back?

Anyway, now he's off for a bike ride with some friends. I want to scream since it doesn't make up for lost time, but on the other hand, he hasn't been sleeping well lately (most likely because he's worried) and I'd like to see him sleep through the night without waking up at 3am and pacing the house. Would be nice to wake up with my husband tomorrow morning and cuddle instead of finding him worn out and defeated looking on the basement floor

I feel so helpless...

I am SORRY.................................... ((((((( HUGS ))))))).

Please dont CRY.......


LoVe,
Rhapsody -

Thanks Rhap -- I'll be ok. This isn't a catastrophe (my new mantra). As tempting as it is to up my Wellbutrin, I'm choosing not to, so there -- that's my reassurance that I still have some control over my situation. Warped thinking, I know.

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Anyway, now he's off for a bike ride with some friends.

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He wasn't too depressed to go out biking... but he was too depressed to clean the kitchen or do chores???? Have you considered sending him home to his mother's till he figures out what he wants to do when he grows up???? just a thought.......

Ok... ummmmmmm .... I struggle with depression... along with anxiety.. and I am not out with my friends having a good time... even for an hour.... ...I am wondering what type of depression your hubby has... I just see you working so hard and trying so hard and he doesn't even find the energy to wash his dishes but he can go bike riding.........

Please understand I am not being rude.. I just care...I know love is blind..... I was so in love, and blind to what others saw in the lazy guy I adored... This was back in the mid 70's...I worked, paid all the bills and even gave him spending money because he couldn't find a job... so he went fishing a lot and drove by the office I worked in showing off the fish he caught .........my friends and even my boss tried to "wake me up".. to see the light.......Geesh i forget why we broke up... but we did....

anyway........ maybe since one of the reasons he is so depressed is because he didn't finish college... maybe he should take a few classes... something to get him motivated...

I didn't write this to upset you... just i don't understand how he can go bike riding with his friends.. that does take "energy" and yet he can't do anything around the house...just doesn't make sense....

I have to agree with r_f on this one. He has the energy to go on a bike ride (and I know it's not just a leisurely pedal around the block) but he can't drag himself off the couch or bed to do anything else?

It just sounds like he's more than willing to do things that end up upsetting you but won't make any move to do anything to help. And if you remind him of the goals set up in therapy, then he just balks even more.

It almost sounds more like an attitude problem on his part than a depression problem.

Just my opinion.

I agree with radio_flyer and wi_fighter that your husband doesn't seem severely depressed if he is able to go bike riding with his friends. And I totally sympathise with how frustrating and scary this is for you.....

I wouldn't write him off as having an "attitude problem" though.... Maybe he does have some additional issues on top of (or underlying) the depression. (Who are we to diagnose anyone anyway online ) Hopefully the energy he had for the bike ride will translate into him behaving like an adult around the house soon..... if not, I am not sure what to suggest apart for more therapy for him....

Thinking of you ((((( LMo )))))

((((LMo))))) you must know by now that I care about you. Please keep this is mind when you read this, I'm on your side, remember?

From what I read you feel this is salvagable, though difficult. I agree.

Marriage is in sickness and in health. It's unfortunate when both are suffering in some way

Exercise is good for him, and will help alleviate some depression, don't beat him up over it..it's better than only moping and sleeping

Maybe it's time to increase his Lexapro, or try a different medicine. To me, he is still in the grips of depression. That your T continues to urge him to make a plan, and yet seems unable to realize that he is unable to, concerns me. Positive thinking is good, but going over the same thing, getting the same guilty but wishful thinking response, and expecting different, doesn't get anyone anywhere imo. It adds to his guilt, imo.

Time to build the man up, talk openly about how the depression is trying to control him and he has to keep battling it when he can, in his mind. Depression tells us lies, makes us feel worthless. Go back to the baby steps of coping (both of you) and begin again perhaps? Medical depression needs medicine imo, and gently encouragement until the thinking begins to clear. No matter how much he wants to inside, depression keeps him from even believing he wants to...

Now for yourself, try not to take all the guff personally. Your spouse is ill. Don't casually buy into the lie of laziness regardless of your relative's opinions. You are not them, nor what they think, and neither is your spouse.

You are doing a good job, imo. Keep working, and do feel good about yourself that you have this to do, and can support your needs for now. This is a wonderful aspect of your story! Don't feel used, if you can. If you were both in a financial fix and your spouse was unable to work, wouldn't you be willing to work to help out? Of course! This is no different, imo.

Take care of yourself... distance yourself from your spouse's problems (I know this is difficult as you are involved but..hopefully you will see the perspective I'm trying to get you to see..) realize you are still functioning and valuable and worthy and all those things...you are no less diminished because of your spouse's illness. Be who YOU are, regardless.

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radio_flyer said:
He wasn't too depressed to go out biking... but he was too depressed to clean the kitchen or do chores???? Have you considered sending him home to his mother's till he figures out what he wants to do when he grows up???? just a thought.......

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HECK yeah, I've thought about it! I'm glad you can see the reason for my resentment. I want to rattle him, believe me.

This is something I went through a few years ago, as well -- the concept of "tough love". I am completely on board with the concept, but it is very difficult to implement with an adult. If I could have someone help me figure out the logistics of exactly HOW to go about it, I would. But how do you kick someone out who you've given 1/2 of your house ownership to? Someone who you love and don't want to hurt, but rather get back on track? I could physically push him out of the house but it doesn't mean he'd move across the country to live with his mother. He'd probably camp out in the backyard or set up living space in our garage. I'm okay with the WHAT and WHY, but I'm still lost on the HOW.

Ok, now I'm going to go back and read the rest of your post. Thanks for understanding -- I feel confused and hurt and taken for granted but I just don't know what to do about it. I feel very powerless to change my situation, which is unusual for me -- I think this is only the 2nd time in my life when I've felt this way.

*sigh*

Thank you everyone... all of you. I'm not insulted by your honest opinions in the least -- instead, I really appreciate them, because I am friends with all of you and I know how hard it is to give a friend an opinion that might hurt them. But really -- I'm not hurt -- you're all voicing the same things that I've been thinking and growing increasingly resentful about.

He's not depressed right now -- I never said he was. He has struggled with severe depression in the past and is definitely prone to it, but I haven't seen signs of it so far (his eyes are typical giveaway -- they go flat). This isn't a problem of his depression this time, but I can see it devolving to that.

I attribute it to a few things:
1) I make enough money to easily support us both, therefore he doesn't feel any sense of urgency as his lack of income doesn't make a huge dent in our home economy. However, I never agreed to provide 100% support for him and I resent that the default is that is exactly what happens... because I can't figure out how to set things up otherwise. We don't split the refrigerator into "my half" and "his half"... so what do I do?

2) Anxiety on his part. It sounds like an excuse even to me, but I know that he wants to work and that he's really happy when he's working. He didn't lose his job because he wasn't dedicated. But, gosh we just had this converation last night - he is STUCK in terms of career direction. It doesn't seem that complicated to me but he doesn't know what to do and he doesn't know how to decide and he always has a reason (not a good one, IMO, but a reason nonetheless) for why my suggestions won't work for him. He really freezes and becomes deer-in-the-headlights paralyzed when it comes to discussions about his career and what direction it could take. I feel bad for him, because it can't be a good feeling. And please don't suggest that he see a career counsellor, or volunteer, or go back to school, etc ... I've tried them all but he really seems panicky when it comes to signing up. It's insanely frustrating for me... it just doesn't seem that hard to do but he sees it as insurmountable. He's his own biggest enemy and obstacle.

3) Lack of marketability. He made it fairly far through an engineering program but struggled through the higher level courses, refused to get help, got very depressed and just stopped going to classes or leaving our apartment. He now has this huge fear of starting something and failing (I can't relate to how he sees this as failing, but he does) and his work experience to date gives him very little to market himself with outside of retail. YES, I have pushed for him to go back to school, but while he agrees with it in theory, he procrastinates and refuses to sign up, even if I'm hovering over him saying "ok, let's just get this done so we can all relax and move on". I don't get it. I feel extremely defeated.

We were up until 1am last night talking about all of this. He's come a long way about learning to communicate his feelings behind all of the issues above, but he still gets defensive and reacts largely like a teenager. I hate it because it feels really manipulative.

Again, I agree with all of you and I am certainly at the point of frustration where I would gladly FORCE him to do something, but how do you FORCE an adult peer to do something they are seemingly terrified to do? I don't have any qualms about how I'd handle this with a child, but he's an adult.

I should add one last note - he hasn't exactly been laying around prior to the last few days -- he really has worked hard on house projects and I remain proud of him for that. But, we're past the deadline and I don't care if the projects are unfinished -- I just want him to stick to his agreement to move on to career planning at this point. And as furious as I was about the bike riding day, I do acknowledge that it is good for him in several ways -- should he slip into depression again, I want his friends to stay involved with him because I don't want to be saddled with being the only person who tries to rally around him. The other reason is because exercise and fitness are extremely important to him and it is good for him to get out there and do it -- mountainbiking is more than just a social thing to do -- for both of us, it can be very meditative. So, I'm not excusing him, but I do see some benefits to his going yesterday, even though it pissed me off and it certainly is not what I would have done in his situation.



Thank you all for listening, caring, and helping. I really, truly appreciate it with all of my heart.

This sucks. I think I would benefit from more meds, perhaps Lexapro again. It seems like the easy way out considering I do not have clinical anxiety, but there is NOTHING I can control here except my own reaction... which is understandable frustration and anxiety.

A friend of mine from here PMed me and suggested that we ask his pdoc to prescribe sleeping pills for him. That is a good idea -- I'm going to discuss that with him. Part of the problem is that he has become restless and agitated at night, and then he sleeps late in the mornings, then feels bad about sleeping late and then gets frustrated about not knowing what to do to compensate for it. YES, most of us work work our kazoos off to compensate, but he can never prioritize for himself. I don't get it, either. Our T attributes it to ADD, but I just don't know if I buy that.

_Sky, I just re-read your post more carefully. Thank you for everything that you said. I had just finished bawling my eyes out and you sent me over the edge again, with your caring and thoughtfulness. I'm going to log off now. I feel like throwing up or squishing my head under a piano, just to put an end to the feeling of being so trapped like this.

_Sky, thank you again for your friendship. I really appreciate it

I am thinking of you and mostly you when I write this... Your such a "go getter" an achiever, a lady on the go... I admire your strength and what you have accomplished in you life.. I am sure you sometimes tearfully sit back and scratch your head and wonder how you got yourself in this situation..........I see everyone "rallying" around your husband while you’re the ONE DOING everything.... Makes one want to scream I am sure...

Sometimes when a person we love has depression and anxiety we sometimes tip toe or walk on egg shells because we don’t want to do anything to push them back into the dark hole.. So when one is carrying the full load of life, folks tend to forget we are human too.. I don’t care how strong a woman is; she is still a woman and has needs too… And when her needs are not met, she becomes overwhelmed and/or starts self medicating with prescription pills or other things…or pulls the covers over her head and tries to hide .. or feels trapped and frustrated..…..In simple terms, I call it “overload”…. And the next think you know, you have also fallen into the despair of depression…

Soooo self care is so very important… Self care can mean so many different things to different people.. The key is to find the self care that best suits your needs at this time….And it is not selfish to think of one’s self….when we are boxed in and there is no light at the end of the tunnel, it makes no sense to go down with the ship… At this point I don’t think I would have total focus on what the hubby is going to do… I would focus on what I WANT… Maybe in doing this, the hubby will wake up and follow… If not, there is a somewhere a man who will not drain you, but will fill your life with the joys you most certainly deserve……..

I hope I have not said anything out of line… If I have, please feel free to delete it......I don’t want to hurt you or your hubby with my words… I care… sometimes caring hurts… and of course, my words, are just my “opinion”.. and you know how that goes…

You made me cry again.

Thank you, Radio_flyer. This was a very thoughtful post. I agree with everything you said and I am grateful for your support. It's a little eerie how much you seem to know me and what I'm feeling right now.

Well, we have fought all day long and it's been the day from hell. He feels overwhelmed by too many things to do, yet criticized when I suggest that he focus on only one thing at a time (rather than concurrently work on 4 separate projects, finishing none).

Right now, I am sitting with him in our office. We reached an agreement that he will apply to 3 schools, even if he isn't 100% positive that he wants to attend them. He agreed that it can't hurt to get the ball rolling. However, he's been sitting here for the last hour, either getting distracted by thinking of other things he could research on the internet, or out of frustration pounding on the keyboard, rolling his eyes, and getting agitated. I just watched him try to create a userid for a university website. It clearly said that he needed an 8 character userid and he just wasn't absorbing that requirement, so he kept typing in the same userid over and over and pretty much lost his temper that it wasn't working. Mind you, my husband is, IMO, just shy of being a genius -- I'm in the top 2% of IQs, and he is way, WAY smarter than I am. Yet he's practically throwing a temper tantrum because he can't understand how to fill out an online application.

Right now, he's pissed off because they want to know his father's contact info, but as his dad disappeared more than 17 years ago, he doesn't know what to put there. And he doesn't remember his high school address, so he's making a huge mess going through our file cabinets.

Is it ADD? I don't know. Our T would say it is. I just know that it is painful to watch him flounder like this. It would have taken me all of 10 minutes to get done what he's been trying to do for the last hour.

!$*(&%@#!

He has been out of Strattera for over a week, I just found out. WHY???!?!??!!?!

Ok, so help me out here...

Given that he is making NO progress on these applications and is getting frustrated and just stomped upstairs in tears, do you think I should just drop it to try to salvage what's left of our evening? Or, would that be considered 'enabling'?

I hadn't known that he slipped off his meds.

Ok, never mind -- it's not salvageable. He has already given up and refuses to try again. And he's in a foul mood and isn't speaking to me anymore.

Right about now, selling the house and moving to another country, alone, sounds really good.

His coping skills really suck, and mine are deteriorating rapidly...

I think I would "drop" it for the night... And remind him that tomorrow he will have all day to finish three applications..

Maybe it would be easier for him to "be alone" without "helpful, watchful eyes" at this point... Maybe turn on some background calming music as a way distract him from his frustrations...Gotta give the guy "thumbs up" for trying... And he may struggle, just don't let him feel your frustrations because it will only make him feel more frustrated... if that makes sense.........

I'd try to salvage the evening... Make him a cup of hot tea... and let him know you appreciated his efforts... and that tomorrow is another day...

(((((((((LMO and hubby))))))))))

Thanks Radio... I feel like everything I do just makes it worse. I left him alone all day to work on it and he hadn't even started, so I suggested that we do it together as a team.

Thanks for the reminder to give him a thumbs-up for trying. That was a good reminder. I don't do that often enough.

Too late about hiding my frustrations, I'm afraid...