Dealing With Panic Attacks, worse on an annual basis

I've been sleeping better, though that's mostly because I do shiftwork and this is my off week. Girlfriend is back and home and I've been pretty much just wandering around in Zelda foraging for food and assaulting wildlife. It's really helping me relax and unwind.

Making a point to get out is also important. My therapist asked me what "relaxing" means to me, and I said a hot cup of coffee, a game, and nothing else to do for the rest of the day... with the emphasis on that last one. I've found that if I have something I have to do later - even if it's something I want to do - it'll be all I can focus on and then I can't relax. As a result, I tend to do more early in the day rather than later. That said, I did go out to a concert last night and it went pretty much how my excursions tend to: really anxious on the way there, settled down once I got there, and on the way back it was like nothing had happened.

I ordered a case of CBT Tea that should be in tomorrow, but this week I've been trying the coffee. It tastes all right, but it's still a little too early to tell how well it's working with me overall. I may just go back to my regular coffee and stick to the tea or maybe try oil again for CBD. Not really sure at the moment.

That's a pretty good quote about feelings, too. They are like visitors... just those really annoying visitors who make themselves a little too much at home and won't take a hint about when it's time to leave :P

So yeah, I'm doing much better and I hope you're doing well too. How's your husband doing?

That's good news that your girlfriend is back home. Hope she is doing okay.

Love that description about assaulting wildlife. Yep, that's accurate. DD calls the early part if the game "pickin' up sticks and apples."

My preference these days is to do most things earlier in the day too. I totally feel you there! It's no problem if I need to go out later, but at this point it really more suits my personality to work the day that way. Is it possible that just getting things out of the way and freeforming the rest of the day suits your personality better? (As opposed to something that's potentially about anxiety)

It sounds like you were glad that you went to the concert. You definitely didn't let the anxiety take the wheel, so that's great! Exactly what you should do.

Well, I'll stay tuned to see how your CBD oil experience goes.

Yeah, you know the visitors I'm talking about . It's an interesting way to look at feelings though. Once you really see how true it is, it can make them more tolerable. You can know that you'll get to the better feeling part of your day at some point. As part of my CBT, I also use to say "what is, not what if," to remind myself to deal with problems that actually existed, and not ones that were only potential, or based on some ambiguous feelings.

Thanks for asking about me. Another week. I manage as best I can. Dh had some interesting problems at work this week and who knows where the truth lies? Today he's been about five different personalities - from so depressed that he won't talk, to so excited he looks manic, to angry at the world. He seems not real self aware of how weird and big the fluctuations are. Anyhow, it feels like June/July in our house. I'm doing much better this year just focusing on me and not getting sucked into the drama (at least so far). Just keep on keeping on....

Glad to hear that you have been doing well! Hope the weekend is great for you!

Still waiting on the CBD tea shipment to come in. And since I'm back on shift right now I'm not making the coffee, either. Yesterday was the first day in awhile I went without either CBD or the hydroxozine, and I felt pretty good. So still really hard to say exactly where I'm going to go from here on that front.

I'm also a bit stuck with my therapist at the moment regarding CBT since I reached a point in my program where I really couldn't answer the questions being asked. Our most recent interaction, she asked if the thoughts came first or the physical sensation. Was this something that you encountered when you were learning it?

It really sounds like a bit of a seesaw with your husband's problems and your own. There's a lot of give and take trying to figure out the right amount of focusing on your own problems and helping your partner with theirs (I can definitely relate!). I'm glad you're keeping on, though. Like you said earlier, if there's anything you can offer me, it's the hope that things can and will get better. That said, I also quite enjoy the company as well! <3

I just realized that it's been four days since I said anything here. I guess I've really been getting sucked into Zelda, which... honestly, I appreciate. I can't remember the last time that I spent an entire week straight playing a game and enjoying it. It really brings me back to when I was younger and didn't have so many worries and it's been a really good recharge for me. I've gotten so deep into developing games that I can't turn that critical part of my brain off and just enjoy something without overanalyzing it and thinking how it could be improved. And while I am doing it to at least some degree here, I'm not letting it stop me from enjoying it. I'm having a great time just exploring and lowering Hyrule's wolf population.

[QUOTE=BillyTBum;7341278]
....."....
My therapist asked me what "relaxing" means to me, and I said a hot cup of coffee, a game, and nothing else to do for the rest of the day... with the emphasis on that last one. I've found that if I have something I have to do later - even if it's something I want to do - it'll be all I can focus on and then I can't relax. "

I feel that way too, sometimes.

Hey again

Glad to hear that you're surviving pretty well without coffee, or the other stuff. Sounds like things may be in a potentially level place at the moment. Hope it keeps moving that direction.

The question you asked about thoughts or physical sensation coming first is a really good one. I had to think about that for a while! Honestly, it was like a loop for me, where one fed into the other and then back again. As uncomfortable as the physical sensations were, the thoughts were more distressing and therefore worse for me. Initially, I focused on quieting the thoughts, and when they calmed down quite a bit, the physical sensations seemed odd. Like out of place and without direction. After a while, with the thoughts calmed, it began to seem like the physical sensations were just my nervous system being overactive and shooting off wildly. Without the thoughts to fuel it on further, and accepting that the physical sensations were nothing more than physical sensations, they burned themselves out over time. That doctor who I quote all the time likened it to the ringing of a bell. Where you can continue to hear the humming resonance for a while after the bell has been rung. It fades away in time.

That's not to say that the anxiety doesn't still happen from time to time, but the CBT taught me how to deactivate it more quickly. Like now I can generally reregulate in about 15 minutes and get on with the day, rather than loop around and around endlessly. Sometimes, when things are rough around here, I may have to reregulate a few times in a day. So, it's not being anxiety free, but rather learning how to manage it quickly when it comes up- and not allow it to build back to that really bad place.

Hope that makes some sense....

Ditto about enjoying the company

You are so right- it can be very hard to find that balance between how much you should do for someone else versus how much you need to do for yourself. I've learned a lot about strong boundaries and healthy selfishness the last couple of years.

Is game developing what you do for work? If so, that sounds very interesting.

Glad to hear you are enjoying Hyrule and all that it has to offer. It's an amazing and beautiful world. One of my favorite things is when DD generates twenty heart Wolf Link with an amiibo nfc tag. Wolf Link runs around with Link, which is really cute, though he often does himself in pretty quickly by attacking wildlife or monsters (once he's gone, he can't come back until the next day). I picked up a tag on Etsy for like $5, but if you can make your own nfc tags, you can sometimes find the files online. Oh, and if you're having trouble honing in on something with your sensor, Wolf Link will sometimes guide you right to what you're looking for. He's a great virtual dog

Hope it's been a good week.

Things are going pretty well. I'm back to night shift and this is my first night shift in awhile where I haven't had nightly panic attacks. I've been going through CBD tea and have found myself taking my hydroxozine (my "as needed" med) less and less lately. There's a lot of factors, of course - one of which is just unwinding and enjoying myself. Luckily, I have a job where I can play games all night.

Game development is a hobby, not a job. A more accurate term would be modding or hacking, actually, since I don't actually make original content, I just improve what's out there to the best of my ability. If you've ever heard of Final Fantasy VI, my most well-known work is a mod for it called Brave New World. My ACTUAL job is network operations for a differential GPS provider, which affords me a good deal of spare time to pursue my passion projects.

The thoughts and physical feeling conundrum has had me pretty perplexed for the last few days, too. My knee-jerk instinct was to say the feelings, but that doesn't seem to be the case. In most cases, I think it's actually the thoughts that come first. But what happens is, like someone in this thread (possibly you) said earlier, excitement and general stress all start to feel like anxiety after awhile, and that's the scenario where the feelings come first and your mind reacts inappropriately. A good example is when I get in my truck every morning to go to work. I live in Houston, so it's approximately several thousand degrees here right now. Every time that wave of hot air hits me I feel a wave of anxiety because the air is hot enough to actually be choking. What should just be a mildly uncomfortable feeling is anxiety-inducing because it feels just for a moment like I can't breathe.

I guess the thing to zero in on is the actual process of quieting my thoughts, then. Up until now my main strategy has just been distracting myself, which is only somewhat effective. I'm guessing that's where the CBD techniques will come in.

Do you ever feel like problems you have ever made it difficult for you to be there for your husband when he needed you? I feel like I might have asked a similar question awhile ago. It just feels to me like part of being an adult is having so much responsibility that it's just not ever okay for me to not be okay for awhile and take the time I need to not be. My girlfriend is a sweet person, but she's pretty constantly in need of help, and often much more than I'm able to provide. It's hard sometimes to not blame myself for not doing more, especially when all that's holding me back is something "stupid" like anxiety.

Hope your week is going well, too! It's back to Zelda for me now. Thankfully, the princess is patient enough to wait for me to run around Hyrule harassing animals and taking pictures of plants.

Hey Billy,

It's great to hear that things have been going okay recently. That's really great news that the night time panic attacks seem to be staying at bay.

Wow, your hobby is next level. Seriously, that is awesome. I'm familiar with the franchise, though have never played it. How long have you been modding games? That's really cool.

Your "real job" sounds like a good fit for you? Do you enjoy that work as well?

From what I understand, reactions of the nervous system are similar for any sort of anxiety/anger/excitement, so it's possible to trigger that same sensation with any of those. It's not uncommon for someone's first big bout of anxiety/panic to be triggered by being too hungry. They get scared and don't understand what caused it, which can inadvertently start the bigger anxiety cycle. Anyhow, once you're in a sensitized state, it's not unusual to get tripped up by things like the heat situation. It's very positive if you move past it quickly.

Distracting yourself isn't generally very effective, because in a sense it's avoiding whatever is causing the anxiety, which tends to give it some credibility to the brain.

Do you have CBT techniques in your arsenal yet? If you don't mind sharing, what exercises do you use as CBT?

Mine mostly used both exposure and 'turning the mind'/mindfulness depending on the situation. Exposure therapy for things that could be overcome directly (like anxiety about driving- btw, I love driving again at this point, though at peak anxiety it had become difficult). And the mindfulness was good for things that couldn't be corrected directly- like bad thoughts and "what-if" worries. Instead of distracting or trying to fight or banish the bad thoughts, I'd turn my mind to the physical environment and focus on things outside of myself (sights, sounds, smells, etc) until the thoughts and sensations passed.

Of course there are still times that you should have a vacation in your mind and enjoy being distracted, but it's good if it's not connected directly to an anxiety reaction.

—-> Do you ever feel like problems you have ever made it difficult for you to be there for your husband when he needed you? I feel like I might have asked a similar question awhile ago. It just feels to me like part of being an adult is having so much responsibility that it's just not ever okay for me to not be okay for awhile and take the time I need to not be. My girlfriend is a sweet person, but she's pretty constantly in need of help, and often much more than I'm able to provide. It's hard sometimes to not blame myself for not doing more, especially when all that's holding me back is something "stupid" like anxiety.<----

I fell into a very bad place over several years of trying to help dh, which came at heavy cost to myself. I became "other" focused on him and essentially lost a lot of my own identity. It's a form of codependency- and what brought me to these forums. I mostly didn't matter anymore. His problems were seen as so big, that only he got care and attention.

I've since learned that when someone in a relationship has some kind of serious disorder- mental health disorder, personality disorder, alcoholism, etc, that without strong boundaries it's not unusual for it to morph into a lopsided relationship.

Our responsibility is to ourselves first and foremost- without ourselves, who or what do we have? Tending to your own needs makes you better able to deal with other people. When your batteries are fully charged, other people get a much better version and experience of you.

Your needs are very important, even if they aren't as high on some perceived scale as hers, and you should take care of yourself without feeling guilty. It's up to you to decide how much help you can afford to offer her. Whatever your limit is, that's okay. Only you can determine what that looks like at any given time.

My dh doesn't like boundaries, btw. Sometimes it means he doesn't get his way, or feels like he's lost control of a situation or isn't the center of attention like he wants to be. That's hard for him, but necessary for me and DD. As much as we might want him to be happy and comfortable, we can't sacrifice our own happiness and comfort as the exchange, know what I mean?

Don't worry, Zelda will wait, and something tells me that once you do save her, she'll find a way to put herself in peril again.

Overall, last week was slightly rocky. Dh had a bad week and has been very out of sorts, but that's where that boundary/codependency thing comes in. His problems can weigh on the household and I feel compassion for him, but his problems and emotions aren't mine to take on- so I don't. So many things could be better, but I'm navigating it and choosing to do my best to not pick up what he's putting down

Hope the coming week is good for is all.

Btw, I want to ask about your avatar sometime, but this one is way too long already

I've been modding games ever since I realized that I could change the rules to Civilization 2 in a basic text file. For Final Fantasy VI in particular, that has been in development for over a decade now, although I've finally stepped back and said I'm done with it for awhile. It's rewarding, but the obsession can get to me after too long and start stressing me out.

It's actually a pretty good question now that I think about it, are people with anxiety issues more prone to addictive and/or obsessive behavior? I had myself pegged as obsessive compulsive for most of my early life, especially when I read more into it and understood that the basic problem is a communication error between your brain and body where the brain never gets feedback that the requested task has been completed, leading to an endless loop.

I tried to channel that tendency into something positive with things that I create. The perfectionism means that I make things that are highly polished, but it also means I have a very hard time not screwing with it once it's done. Playing Zelda has been all of the positives of that obsessive behavior - I've been at it for two solid weeks straight - but none of the downsides of feeling like I'm working on something that will never get finished. And in a roundabout way, I think a lot of anxiety comes down to feeling "stuck".

I do very much enjoy my job, as well. Been doing it for 15 years and honestly couldn't go back to any other job at this point

It's interesting that you say distracting myself isn't effective because it gives credibility to my brain for the fears because that's the way I feel when I take medicine to combat it or engage with grounding techniques - I feel like I'm acknowledging it and that makes it real. My therapist gave me a list of affirmations just before she had to step away for a medical emergency, but I'm not exactly sure that's what you would call a CBT technique. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what my mental response to anxiety is (hence the earlier question of if the physicals sensation or the thoughts come first) since CBT is, to my understanding, about directly addressing that response.

And I haven't dealt with much anxiety lately because I haven't been putting myself in situations that will cause it, i.e. going out. Something that occurred to me that part of my anxieties about going out boil down to the fact that I never go out anymore because I want to, only because I have to. And I find that often that resentment of having to go out and do something rather than staying home like I want puts me in the mindset that makes me susceptible to panic attacks since it's all I can focus on.

So, playing Zelda has been a lot more to me lately than just experiencing something new, it's me engaging in some years-neglected self care. I do understand (and, to an extent, dread) that exposure will be a critical factor in conquring my anxieties. But when it happens, I want it to be because I initiated it, not because it was something I had to do.

I definitely understand what you mean by boundaries - my girlfriend has a very hard time with them, as well. Communication is a bigger issue, as well. She has a lot of difficulty telling me what she needs from me, and of course I can't give her what she needs if I don't know what it is. But I also have a tendency to put myself out more than I should trying to be there for her... including going out a lot more than I'd prefer to. Part of the above-mentioned self care is not over-extending myself as much in that regard, sort of like what you've been doing. It's hard sometimes, but like you say we're no good to anyone if we're not good ourselves.

Thank you so much for talking to me and sharing your experiences with not only your anxieties, but handling a relationship with someone with their own problems. It feels sometimes like talking to you helps me put my thoughts together even moreso than with my therapist. It's really helping me along and I appreciate it a lot. I hope your week has been going well!

(Oh, and my avatar is the cover of Iron Maiden's Powerslave album. I'm a pretty huge fan, and my FF6 mod is even named after another one of their albums.)

I'm glad if some of this is helpful to you. I've really enjoyed it too. You've helped me gain new perspectives as well.

That's interesting about ocd and the feedback loop. That's new to me and makes a lot of sense. Here's a million dollar question that Dr. Weekes poses:

Does the obsession actually bother you or interfere negatively with your life?

It sounds like you know where your limit is and when to step back.

Dr. Weekes theorized that if you washed your hands 200 times a day, and it didn't interfere with your life, didn't cause intrusive thoughts, (or your skin to fall off), then it wasn't a problem. It's only a problem when it presents negative ramifications for you.

It struck me that your game modding may be a bit like my hobby-craft of writing. That can definitely fall into obsession, but it doesn't have negatives as far as I'm concerned, so I embrace it fully. It's not unusual for me to write fifty pages and go over it uncountable times to polish it out. To me, honing it is akin to someone finishing a piece of fine furniture- it's pretty clear if they stopped short, and beautiful if they didn't. If you want to master your craft, you have to aim for mastery. It doesn't interfere with any aspects of life, everything that needs to be done gets done, and it doesn't affect my mental state negatively (if anything it improves it). BUT, like you indicated with what you do, there's a limit. It's kind of like the scene in Forrest Gump when he's been running for a couple of years, stops in the middle of the road and says he's done and going home. When the meter's pegged out, I quit without reservations, sometimes for a long time.

And that's not to say that there aren't ideas floating around in my head every hour of every day. It's finding that balance of living in both worlds. Sometimes, I do have to mindfully focus in on what's going on around me, rather than what's in the noggin. (This is typical of my personality type- more on that in a bit)

To me anyway, the way you try to perfect what you do makes a lot of sense, especially since you share it with the world.

It's great to hear that you enjoy your job. I love meeting people who like what they do.

Those things you described that make the anxiety feel real- if you sit with those feelings, do they lessen? Do they feel worse when you acknowledge the reality? Or better?

How are the meds so far?

The type of unfounded credibility I was thinking of was stuff that might seem silly to typical people. There were a lot of irrational fears with my anxiety. Some seemed very scary and real at the time. Here's a pretend example- keeping it light: Say someone has a fear of ladybugs. As a result, they may not go outside, go check the mail, clean out cabinets, go to the park, etc. for fear of encountering dreaded ladybugs. By mentally responding to a what-if that may never even come up, their brain decides it must really be a problem, and gives it credibility. That's where exposure therapy works- go sit at the park for an hour and realize there aren't even any ladybugs there. And if there are, they aren't really all that scary or something that can't be handled.

Forgive me if I get this wrong, but you talk about your preferences, and the things you need and want, as if they may not be what you should be doing. It seems like you feel pressure to do certain things, even if they don't presently suit you.

We live in a world that loves certain personality types, so those of us (most of us) who have different preferences can feel a little flawed, even though we aren't. Have you ever taken a personality test? There's a really good, free one at 16personalities. com, if you're interested. Learning about personality type helped me realize that the way I function and my preferences aren't just fine, they're inherent. It can be validating.

I'm an unusual personality type (and probably a lot of people on the forums are the same one ), that's known as the extrovert of introverts. We love people, will talk to anyone and everyone about anything and everything, but have a strict limit and when we're done socializing, we're done- probably for at least a week. Then we go introverted to charge our batteries. Unfortunately, this is confusing for other people who saw us having fun and enjoyed our company. Now they don't understand why we don't want to go out with them the next day… they think something's wrong… but it isn't, it's a personal need. Without understanding that personality need, it's easy to inadvertently harm ourselves by trying to make others happy in ways we can't afford. Understanding personality dynamics helps manage preferences and relationships more effectively- and more importantly to accept ourselves for things that aren't actually flaws or problems at all.

A few posts back, you said something about adult responsibilities and feeling overwhelmed at times. One of the huge things that codependency work taught me is that when you only tend to your own responsibilities, life usually gets much easier. It's when you're trying to fix things that aren't your responsibility that you get overwhelmed- because you probably aren't going to be very effective at fixing it, or it's none of your business anyway.

My dh is similar to your gf in that he doesn't always know, or isn't able to express himself well. He also has passive aggressive patterns, so it's hard to get a bead on when he's having an actual big problem, and when he's being manipulative. There are some days that he doesn't talk and who knows if he's depressed and shut down, or giving us the silent treatment as emotional manipulation? I don't try to figure this out anymore, it's too taxing on time and energy. I ask him if he's okay, or if he needs anything. If he doesn't know what it is he needs, it's still his responsibility to say that he needs something but isn't sure what. It's not my responsibility to guess or drag it out of him. I also won't let him monologue and obsess at me for an hour or more. Boundaries and limits are based on our own tolerances, and not only are we allowed to have them, but need them in order to be healthy.

Oh geez, this is another one that got way too long .

D'oh! I probably should have had some idea about your avatar . Though not a devoted fan, I once performed a rendition of Run To The Hills that critics hailed as "something we'd prefer to never hear again." But seriously, I'm usually watching a couple of anime or animated series at any given time, and am currently rewatching Star Wars Rebels. Your avatar image is a little reminiscent of Zeb Orrelios, particularly when his eyes are shadowed. Perhaps Zeb was inspired by that cover.

How's Zels by the way?

Well, until next time…

Hang in there!

Knowing where my limit is and where to step back is something that took a looooooong time to figure out; I used to be very prone to working myself well past a breaking point. And the downside of that is that you have to pull back so much at that point that you start to feel like you're never going to be able to get anything else done anymore, which is kind of the point I'm at now. Even then, I'll still exhibit the same tendencies. I have what I refer to as "chronic restart syndrome" when it comes to playing games, where the more I learn about them the more I want to start over with the knowledge I've gained so that I can play it more optimally. It's the mentality that nothing is worth doing if it's not done perfectly that's really hard to break out of. I've thus far managed to avoid the urge to restart Zelda and just yesterday finished up the main game. Now I just get to run around Hyrule for all of eternity looking for little bits of golden poop :P

Thankfully, I'm at a point with my projects that I can take a nice long break and be comfortable with what I've produced. Like you said with your writing, the ideas are still there - I think constantly when playing Breath of the Wild about the many ways it could be improved. I'll never be able to turn off that critical part of my brain, but I suppose the real key is not allowing it to prevent me from enjoying what I'm doing, yeah?

I'm quite familiar with the 16 personality types, or at least the one I fit pretty squarely into, which is INTJ. Though this conversation inspired me to go re-take the quiz and I was kind of surprised that it labeled me as ISTJ this time, and the results weren't nearly as stacked this time around. I feel like the only thing that's really changed is that, although I still prefer my solitude in most cases, I've become more comfortable around other people and more empathetic toward their struggles. These two things go hand in hand - what made me more comfortable around others was the confidence in the positive energy I try to spread to other people. My parents both used to compare me to Dr. House (they hate each other and never speak, meaning both reached this conclusion on their own) and I was pretty comfortable with that comparison, but I can also say that I'd be pretty comfortable being compared to Jamie - or honestly even Adam - from Mythbusters.

I've never heard the "extrovert of introverts" label, though... I'm guessing INFP or INFJ?

My meds seem to have me pretty stable at the moment. Anxiety tends to be much more mild and infrequent lately; I've gone from taking hydroxozine at least once a day to taking it at most once every few days. Doing the CBT thing once a day, either via coffee or the tea. Hard to say whether or not that's contributing.


It is interesting that you mention tending only to my own responsibilities, because although my issues with anxiety go all the way back to when I was a child (although I didn't recognize it at the time), they do seem to have gotten much worse since I've been in relationships. Coinciding at least somewhat with me being uncomfortable going out is the fact that I never go out anymore because I want to, it's always because I *have* to. My previous girlfriend was legally blind and therefore could not drive, and my current partner drives what can only loosely be described as a marginally functional vehicle, making me her primary method of transportation in most cases. I could probably tie a lot of my anxieties about going out to the fact that I generally don't WANT to be out if I really thought about it. I'm just not how to resolve the fact that I have reached a point where those same anxieties also crop up when I'm going out because there's something I do want to do.

For now, at least, I'm just focusing on recharging. I'm staying in, playing Zelda more or less non-stop (see obsessive behaviors above), and letting myself feel okay for doing that. More importantly, I need to focus on improving at my own rate and not the rate that my girlfriend would prefer I get better at.

...very curious about that Run to the Hills rendition, by the way. Iron Maiden fans are some of the best people I've ever met. Must be why you're such a kind person :P

I have intrusive thoughts, too during panic attacks. I keep thinking I'm never going to get better and no one can help me. Hydroxozine or gabapentin don't do anything to me.

I will try to make this one a little shorter…

Forgive me if I fail

You describe your obsessive tendencies well. That makes a lot of sense. But it also sounds like you're doing a pretty good job controlling yourself and the obsessiveness?

They say that CBT is like game trails in the brain - traffic flows on the most used paths, so you can rewire yourself to some extent by practicing where you make yourself go. It seems like you're already doing this?

In time, new trails are worn and you'll feel like you have more control. That's not to say that the thoughts and feelings go away, it's more like they get reframed into something that has less effect on you, and you're less likely to fall into the loop.


—>I'll never be able to turn off that critical part of my brain, but I suppose the real key is not allowing it to prevent me from enjoying what I'm doing, yeah?<---

You're on the right track to acknowledge the feelings and thoughts without allowing them to disrupt you- that's actually a good description of a CBT mindfulness technique. It's kind of like being in a room full of people while you're busy with something. You can do what you're doing, be aware that there are other things going on around you, and still stay on task. It's a learned habit, but once you develop it, it's yours.

It seems like you may have more knowledge about the 16 personalities than I do! ISTJ That sounds pretty good. Do you feel like you take care of yourself as that personality type? Or do you do things that are counter to it?

Love both Adam and Jamie, those are cool comparisons

Not sure about House, I never watched it. He was pretty direct and pragmatic, right? Did your parents mean that in a kind way?

You mentioned childhood anxiety, and your parents' dislike for each other… do you have childhood trauma patterns? I grew up in an unhappy, dysfunctional family where I was the scapegoat. You might find this hard to believe, but in real life, I don't generally talk much at all (except to DD). Growing up, I was marginalized and told to be seen and not heard. Childhood trauma - still live it to this day. It's probably why I started writing. Writing was, and still is, my sanctuary. Doing trauma work has helped a lot- once you see a piece of the puzzle from when you were younger, it can help put the issue to rest in the present. At least that's how it's been for me. Not sure if that applies to you, but if it does, trauma work was very helpful to my overall anxiety patterns.

Oh yeah. You got it, I'm an INFJ

It sounds like the last two relationships you've had have been with people who fall a bit on the more dependent side? And maybe that makes it hard to find good balance? With my husband and his problems, it often feels like I'm the caretaker of life-stuff and not much else. With SOs who have issues that cause you to give more than you might under other circumstances, it's extra important to have those boundaries and make sure your own needs don't end up drowned out.

Hey, I've got a cool thing to share with you. You seem well read, maybe you already know it, but it's relatively new to me. It's called TRE or trauma (or tension) release exercises. It's for PTSD, anxiety, stress, etc. You can check it out online if you're interested. You do simple exercises that fatigue the big muscles in your body until they go into controlled tremors. Then you tremor for a period of time and can end up very relaxed afterwards. Part of my CBT was to let uncomfortable physical sensations just pass in their own time, no matter how bad they were or how long that took. The TRE seems to be a way to speed up that process. It's like a way to burn the physical anxiety sensations out of the muscles faster. It's interesting stuff. It feels good too.

The neat thing about TRE, though, is that it seems to help even if you don't know the root cause of the anxiety, or if the trauma is too severe to confront directly.

Iron Maiden… what is there to say? Their songs can be incredibly fun to belt out. Let's just say that just because it's fun, doesn't make it good. *Sigh* You're right about their fans, some of the best people I've known were hard core fans.

Ya ha ha! Have fun finding those seeds Are you aiming for 100% completion?

Rock on

I do think I cam controlling my obsessive tendencies a lot better, though that mostly boils down to realizing when obsessing over something is causing stress and/or anxiety and being able to immediately shift gears and do something else. And I think the key cause is feeling "stuck" in some way. Like, modding is okay until I hit a really tricky problem that stumps me or start toi feel overhwlemed by my to-do list. I remember one time with Brave New World I was stuck on one issue for 4 days straight and it sent me into a full-on anxiety attack as a result.

Weirdly enough, I hadn't made the connection between not letting my overanalytical brain prevent me from enjoying a game and not letting intrusive anxious thoughts cause me problems until you pointed it out. Seems pretty obvious and I'm not sure how I didn't catch on before. Just goes to show how important having a sounding board can be!

I think the key aspect of House is that, to him, being right is of paramount importance, and he's a complete asshole about it. That does describe how I act toward my parents, but not really anyone else (they have a way of bringing out the worst in me). I realize the important difference between being right aqnd being productive, but I otherwise fit the bill pretty much exactly: pragmatic, logical, and aloof.

Speaking of my parents, I guess... there are definitely a lot of patterns there. The anxiety goes way back to when I was a little kid, except it wouldn't be until I was an adult that anything was correctly identified. There was a drawn-out custody/child support battle between my mother and father during which my first grade teacher testified that I would often "masturbate" in class. This, of course, was completely incorrect - I'd developed a nervous tic of scratching myself after being constantly told that I should not do that in public. This shaped a lot of my views, since it effectively boiled down to every single adult in my life being completely clueless about what was actually going on with me.

The other major aspect of my childhood that probably plays into all of this is that I was a loner with little to no actual parenting. For much of my life, I was comfortable with my solitude. I eventually started to feel lonely, but it's only been recently with the further development of my anxieties that I began to truly fear being alone. An overriding thought I have when I'm feeling anxious is that if nobody is around to help me then something might happen to me. But on the other hand, I learned from an early age that other people are pretty flaky and CAN'T really help me, so I don't really take that much comfort in the presence of others.

I share you passion for writing, as well. I find it therapeutic as a way to organize my thoughts, and often write articles about game design or tutorials on how to mod them. I've actually been considering writing up something on Breath of the Wild when I finally put it down. Writing is also a good way to get things out of my head - something I did a lot when I was younger. I learned about sex at a pretty early age, and my way of handling it was just to write down everything I'd learned and put it away in a drawer. Of course, my mother found it and that became ammunition to use against my father in the aforementioned custody battle... which, again, completely missed the point. My mother's emotional maturity to this day is comparable to that of a blueberry scone, and as a result our relationship has always been much more like that of siblings than mother/son.

And yes, pretty much every relationship I've ever been in all has one very specific thing in common: none of them were with people who were completely independent. I can't imagine that much is helping me, either. I think everything I've said in the last few paragraphs all really points to the fact that I've felt my whole life that I have to do everything by myself and nobody else can and/or will help.

I will need to look into TRE, for sure. It sounds similar to something I was reading about the other day, where in the military they teach you to fall asleep within minutes using progressive muscle relaxation. It definitely sounds like something that can help.

(Man, I've just given up at this point on not giving lengthy responses. Brevity is not in my wheelhouse.)

Anyway, I've done all of the main quest stuff in Zelda and it's effectively a hiking simulator where I look for golden poop and the occasional shrine, which is fine by me. It's relaxing and still plenty enjoyable, but I definitely have a lot to say and will probably end up writing about it. I hope everything is going well with you and I'm really glad that these interactions have been beneficial to you as much as they have been to me. I think I said it before, but more than a few things you've gotten me to say are things that I've pretty much gone right back to my therapist with.



Honestly, I'd struggle to tell you exactly how much hydroxozine helps me, too. Part of it is that it takes so long to take effect that, by that point, the attack could have easily passed on its own, so anything it does in the moment is just a placebo effect. Hell, I tend to feel better just knowing I have it to take if I need it.

Have you looked into CBD at all?

Hey!

Hope it's been a decent week for you.

How has it been trying to recognize when it's time to switch gears? Do you see the early warning signs? Is it getting easier to stop yourself sooner than later?

You have a lot to unpack from your childhood. I'm so sorry about all of that. It sounds like it was pretty chaotic at times. It seems like the adults around you were absolutely clueless at best, and failed you in so many ways. It's probably no great wonder that you turned out to be a practical person who figures out how to get things done.

What my parents did wouldn't actually fall into the category of functional parenting either. The counselor whose YouTube videos I followed for childhood trauma work (Patrick Teahan) is a childhood trauma survivor, whose parents didn't do much parenting either. In some of his videos, he says he went out into the world, at age 19, as basically a feral human being. That's a funny way to put it, but might be apt for some of us.

Something that stands out about you, is that you seem to have remained aware of the things you went through, even if the context changed? I never had much experience with disassociation or repressing memories in any significant way. Whatever was there, I've always owned- and generally had a sense of accountability for the other people involved. It's allowed me to confront the trauma and dysfunction head on. Wonder if that applies to you in some ways? You seem very open and straightforward about your experiences.

I think I sort of understand the feelings you have about being alone- sorry if I miss the mark here. It seems normal to want to feel connected to others, particularly when we're feeling vulnerable. Who doesn't want to be able to let their guard down, and know that someone else has their back?

Like you, people in my life have been largely undependable. Knowing how it feels to be abandoned in a time of need, is a lot of why I overgive to others- I know how it feels to 'get the nothing', so try to save others from having to feel that way. There's also a deep seated hope that if I give enough to others, maybe I'll eventually get some of that care in return. That's the codependent in me.

If you try the progressive relaxation technique, or the TRE, I'd be interested to hear how it goes. Do you have trouble falling asleep? Or staying asleep? Or both? I have trouble falling/staying asleep at times, but try to mindfully roll with it- just focus on resting and being comfortable more than stressing about not being asleep.

Lol, neither of us seem to be gifted with brevity. If you were, your mods might end up being mini games, right?

Hope your Hyrule hiking is going great. Out of curiosity , and if you're willing to share, what type of writing would you do about BotW? I can't conceptualize what type of thing that might be.

DD is playing TotK at the moment. She says BotW is much more relaxing than TotK. I keep hearing, "No, no, no, no, no. Don't die, don't die, don't die…"

It's funny thinking about the term switching gears specifically, because it's something that I realized in the past that I had an exceptionally difficult time doing. When I was doing one thing, it was very hard for me to move on to something else. But in the past, it was really just an issue of focus - not anxiety. Anxiety has basically forced me to learn how to deal with it, which is pretty easy at this point since there's an immediate physical stress response that crops up when I need to take a step back.

Disassociation is something that I never really dealt with because, by and large, I never really viewed anything that I went through as traumatic. It was annoying, for sure, and I often sought refuge in isolation, but I recall many times people expressing sympathy for me going through being caught in the middle of a bitter feud between my parents and my response was just a shrug. It wasn't something that affected me, so why should I care? The only things that really did affect me were the things I hadn't figured out yet, i.e. the seeds of anxiety, and had yet to become a serious problem.

And you are definitely on the mark about my feelings on being alone. It's hard to understand that extremely introverted people have social needs, too. And just because I prefer to spend my time doing stuff by myself doesn't mean that I don't want social support. This was a pretty hard lesson for me to learn, and an even harder one to actually accept.

I feel I can also relate to how this would result in a person becoming overgiving to others, harboring that deep seed of hope that you will eventually get that same support back in kind. I am grateful that, despite having incredibly sub-par parents, to have been largely raised and taught the ways of life by a wonderful man. You strike me as the sort of person who has probably seen Avatar: The Last Airbender before; my grandfather is for all intents and purposes Uncle Iroh. I learned from him that if I see the opportunity to do the right thing, I do it for no other reason than it's the right thing to do. I shouldn't expect anything in return or even gratitude. It's a very altruistic outlook, but it kind of doubles down on that feeling that nobody else is really going to ever help me as much as I need it.

I *thankfully* do not experience difficulty falling or staying asleep, due mostly to the fact that I do rotating shiftwork for a living. 7 12-hour days followed by a week off, then 7 12-hour night shifts followed by another week off and repeat. I'm perpetually tired, but usually not due to not being able to sleep when I try. I did look into TRE and my immediate takeaway was that it reminded me of the "comfort rocking" a lot of people with autism or severe trauma often do (I presume you know what I'm talking about). I have found a similar release with a rowing machine that my girlfriend bought and never uses: the repetetive motion is soothing and the resistance of the machine is just enough to release energy without being overly strenuous.

I think you and I are both of that right type of personality where a conversation just keeps growing because one of us will type up a few things and we just naturally want to respond to absolutely everything to leave no point unaddressed. And then on top of that I'm like, "hell, I've been talking about myself this whole time! Tell me how your week has been going, too." So put us together and it just turns into a great wall of text. Not that I'm complaining - I think I mentioned earlier that a lot of things have come up here that have been points that I took directly back to my therapist.

The writing I do about games just tends to be analyzing them from a design standpoint: what makes them fun, what makes them work, what can be improved upon. The most recent thing I wrote is probably a pretty good example: Abuse My Nipples Dot Biz

(Yes, that really is my domain name. abusemynipples.com was already taken)

At this juncture, I have 4 shrines and about 700 pieces of golden poop left to find. I'd like to at least take care of that first one... not so sure about the second >.>

Anyway, thank you as always for taking the time to talk with me and help me through my problems. I hope your week has been going well, and that your daughter (?) is enjoying Tears of the Kingdom <3

How has the anxiety been lately, overall? Has it calmed down a bit, or is it still pretty intense at times? Is this the time of year when it tends to ease? Do the meds feel like they are helping?

That's interesting that you've always had a strong focus, but the anxiety has cropped up and changed how you can, or can't, do that. Do you think the anxiety is somehow a result of your ability to be strongly focused, or something unrelated that ruins your ability to focus?

Exhaustion has always been a big factor for me with anxiety, and not like being tired, but more like worn out- if that makes sense? Maybe tired is physical and worn out is mental? It can be much easier to slouch on the sofa and power down physically, than it is to power down mentally.

In recent months I've been reading essays by The Minimalists, and one of their friends has a habit of taking a mental break for 30 minutes each day. The guy says he just relaxes and lets his mind wander wherever it wants to go for 30 minutes- then he gets back to his other tasks, and is more productive and less distracted because he's allowed the random stuff to process itself out. It's probably an inadvertent CBT/mindfulness technique. It's an interesting way to test if you have the ability to allow thoughts to float around and come and go, rather than latching on and mentally gnawing on them (like I tend to).

It can definitely be hard to get social needs met as an introvert. It's tough to connect with people who "get it" and won't be put off if you take a little space for yourself. Sometimes it seems easier for me to socialize with casual acquaintances- the kind that you can seek out randomly and chat up, if and when you're feeling social. Back when DD was in elementary school, I used to walk up to get her, and would talk to the same six or so people everyday, which was great. Now that she's older, I miss that very predictable connection that didn't come with a lot of time, or other, expectations/obligations.

Your grandfather sounds amazing. He came up earlier in the thread, didn't he? You must feel blessed to have him. It sounds like he was the one who really stepped up for your needs when neither of your parents were able to do that for you.

After having a kid, I became especially aware of the difference between showing up in a meaningful way, and just showing up. It sounds like your grandfather is one of those people who knows how to connect and show up in a truly meaningful way.

Iroh is easily one of my all time favorite animated characters. I love him and how he operates through the world in such a straightforward and zen way. That's really awesome that your grandfather embodied a lot of Iroh's vibe, and great that you had someone like that as a mentor and supporter.

Oops, I misunderstood what you posted about the progressive relaxation technique as something you wanted to try for sleep's sake. Maybe you meant just as a relaxation technique in general? That's good if sleep isn't an issue for you (you may have said that before on the thread), since it is for so many anxiety sufferers. You do have a very unique work schedule.

I hadn't thought about the TRE falling into a category of self soothing repetition. That's a really good perspective, you might be on to something.

I don't mind posting here, but if you feel like it gets too long, or too off topic for the forum, you're more than welcome to shoot a private message my way.

Thanks for sharing your site. That makes it easier to understand what you do. I only had a chance to read a little, but will try to get back to look at it a bit more later. It looks interesting, and you're an excellent writer.

How are your talleys coming along with BotW? Got all the shrines now? Good luck finding those seeds, lol.

Yes, it's my dear daughter (DD) who is a devout Zelda fangirl and plays TotK. She hasn't played in a few days, but has a loooong ways to go. She also plays a few other games as well, but this week has been Mario Karting with me . It's hot as heck here right now, so it's lots of staying inside and loafing around for us.

Hope you're doing well!

I've been doing much better lately! Anxiety still comes and goes, but is much easier to handle and deal with. That, of course, is a double-edged sword, since I really can't say which of the myriad of things I've thrown at it is responsible. Is it my meds, has therapy helped re-shape my outlook, am I just less stressed in general, or is it just time? Really hard to say. Did you have any similar experiences when you were getting better?

I think my sense of focus and my anxiety are probably deeply linked going in both directions. My anxieties cause me to deeply focus on things for fear of missing details and that in turn causes more anxiety if I over-obsess. If I don't catch myself, I can waste all manners of time obsessing over a trivial detail of something I'm working on.

Anxiety definitely is exhausting, though - to the point where I generally equate being tired with feeling better because I just don't have any energy left to feel anxious. Part of feeling better has thus been feeling unusually tired these last few days, even for how tired I normally am. It's both a physical and mental exhaustion, but then you have my everyday stressors that are contributing more to the mental exhaustion. I tell my girlfriend that I'm tired all the time and she says take a nap and I'm like, "...not that kind of tired". Though in that same vein, your comment about letting thoughts roll around instead of mentally gnawing on them sounds like something I could only do in a state of fatigue :P

I'm also quite lucky to have a circle of friends that definitely "get me" in pretty much every aspect, particularly with being introverted. I could call them up after months or even years of not talking and it would be like we just spoke the other day. Though I do think that getting out and seeing them more will probably be a positive step for my mental health overall.

And yep, Grandpa is a good man. Taught me how to be a good person. And hardly any of it was with words, he showed me with his actions. Like you said, he stepped up and helped me out when nobody else would and didn't get anything in return except for my respect. And the older I get and the more I learned about the life he lived and what he went through, the more that respect grows. To have had the experiences he has had and still come out the kind and gentle person I know him as shows a remarkable character. Among other things, this man was tortured as a POW in Korea and later blown up in a plant explosion... yet he never allowed anything to sour him as a person. I strive to be like that.

Sorry, rambling a bit. We tend to do that

This forum is fine, I don't feel like we're cluttering it up or anything. Normally DMs would be a good place to share things you're less comfortable posting in a public space, but that sort of seems to be the entire point of this site.

I'm down to just four shrines and about 700 golden poops in Breath of the Wild. I'd initially planned to just find the last four shrines and call it for awhile, but I have been all over at this point and those things are pretty well hidden. So I started up another one of the games I picked up (Shredder's Revenge) and have been having a blast with it. I'll eventually go back to Breath of the Wild for a bit, if for no other reason than to put together all of my random thoughts to write up an article.

Oh, and yes, it's hot as hell here in Houston, too. I step outside for more than two minutes and I look like I drank from the wrong grail. But on the plus side, quality time gaming with the kiddo is a huge plus. I wish I had the kind of mother who played games with me. How long have y'all been playing stuff together?

That's really great that you are feeling much better! In some regard, who cares what the reason is, just enjoy the lack of anxiety.

The only thing I used much to treat the anxiety was CBT; my improvement looked more like a slow upward progression that had little bumps up and down. Sort of a predictable two steps forward, one step back. In retrospect, I suspect a lot of the severe anxiety was caused by overwhelm and exhaustion at that time (very active toddler and dh slowly beginning to experience problems). The CBT for me may have been more about exposure therapy and gaining tolerance, as well as adapting to realistic expectations and limitations- if that makes any sense.

I've always said I'd take being exhaustingly depressed over buzzing anxiety any day of the week. Depression/exhaustion is way more comfortable IMO- at least for shorter periods of time. The worst feeling in the world is that sensation like you could just jump out of your own skin.

I think my sense of focus and my anxiety are probably deeply linked going in both directions. My anxieties cause me to deeply focus on things for fear of missing details and that in turn causes more anxiety if I over-obsess. If I don't catch myself, I can waste all manners of time obsessing over a trivial detail of something I'm working on.

That's good awareness. Put like that, it almost seems like it points back to one of those catch-22 loops where one thing feeds into the other, and back again. The only way off the rollercoaster may be to literally get off of it for a while. Which isn't always easy when your mind wants to go where it goes, or whatever you're doing is necessary.

You're lucky to have those friends with whom you have a long history, are able to connect, and reconnect with easily. Do many of them live near enough that you could see them in person more often?

Your grandpa sounds like an absolutely amazing man to go through the things he has and be the person that he is. It's easy to see why he's such an inspiration to you. I have deep appreciation for his service and sacrifice for the country, and love our veterans very much. Your grandpa is a hero.

The lady who developed dbt (for borderline personality, but there are lots of good life skills in dbt) was borderline herself, and set out to figure out how to improve her situation— back in the day, borderline was sometimes considered too difficult to treat. One question she posed, and sought to answer, was why some people get destroyed by suffering and problems, and some people are resilient and just seem to get better and rise above the problems. Some of dbt (that's dialectic behavioral therapy, if you're not familiar with it) is based on learning to become more resilient. Your grandfather sounds like one of those people she looked to for answers. Have you learned from your grandfather how he moved on and stays a wonderful person despite some potentially serious setbacks? If you could bottle that….

Thank you for sharing about your grandfather, he sounds like the best of the best

Lol, there were few shrines that eluded DD for a while. She's having similar problems in TotK and has to give up at times. She doesn't like to look for info on the internet. She wants to figure it out on her own, even if it takes time.

Glad your new game is fun too. It's good to switch gears even when it comes to pleasurable hobby-type things too.

I wish I had the kind of mother who played games with me.

DD hears that from kids at school all the time. Many of them just wish their parents would find time to talk with them. As a kid, my parents were relatively disconnected workaholics, so that left me aware of wanting a stronger connection with DD. We've always played video games together- there are pictures of her at 3 years old, crashed asleep with a Wii wheel on her lap. (That was about the last time I could consistently beat her in racing)

I grew up with a couple of old Atari consoles, so generally played shorter, arcade style games. Later, I moved on to a SNES, and got my own mom addicted to Tetris . And so on through the years and a couple of systems…

After DD was a little older and got the switch (about 5 years ago), she was interested in playing a lot more and got me into games like Smash Bros., Hyrule Warriors, and Minecraft- in addition to MarioKart and the Lego games we already played. I love playing and spending time with her. Time is fleeting and finite. Time with her is always important.

Hope things are going great for you, and that it was a good weekend with low anxiety.

I am definitely enjoying the lower overall anxiety. But you know the saying... those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it

I forget if it was you or my therapist (possibly both of you) who talked about observing anxious thoughts like clouds passing by rather than latching onto them, and I'm starting to see the wisdom in that. I've been finding myself waking up in the middle of the night with anxious thoughts, but because I find it extremely difficult to hold on to any one thought when I'm lying in bed they've been tending to pass without much incident. I have that initial panic and the urge to go do something to distract myself, but... who wants to get out of bed? I think this is probably the biggest reason I associate being tired with being calm.

Those feedback loops can be really hard to deal with and were one of the primary reasons I had myself pegged as obsessive compulsive when I was younger. And you're right, the only way to deal with it sometimes is to get off completely. Most recently, I said "the hell with it" and bought myself a Switch - something I thought I'd never do. Before Breath of the Wild, the most recent Zelda game I'd played was Ocarina of Time, and I have a reputation as somebody who's very stuck in the retro era of games.
Just jump into the deep end of something completely new.

I do have several friends that are close enough that I could go see more, indeed. We're just caught in that loop of saying we need to get together more often and then suddenly it's next year >.<

And yep, Grandpa is a good man and would probably be the first one to downplay being called a hero. He's just somebody who set a good example for me that I try my best to follow. My biggest takeaway from how he handles things in life is that he is perpetually calm; never raises his voice, never gets rattled, never lets petty things bother him. In a house full of screaming, bickering adults who acted like children, he was the one who was always above it all. I've applied that approach to dealing with other people and it has served me well... you make a good point about framing it to approach my mental health struggles, as well.

It's funny you bring up borderline personality disorder, as it's one of the several issues that my girlfriend struggles with. It's certainly not easy... for her OR me. I've gotten used to a lot of things over the last few years that I'm not happy to say I've grown accustomed to. Since my issues with anxiety pre-date my relationships, I'd written off my interactions with her as having anything to do with my current condition, but talking to you has made me realize that was probably a mistake. I need those boundaries in place if I'm going to be able to take care of myself.

I did just pick up Mario Kart and Mario Party for my Switch, though, so hopefully that will give us something we can do together. We really struggle to find things we can do together due to an overall lack of shared interests, so hoping this will help

(Your daughter sounds adorable, btw - I can just imagine her conked out in front of the TV)

All in all, it's been a decent week. Been keeping myself busy so much that I didn't even notice it shooting by! Hope all is well with you and the family. And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, thank you so much for sharing your experiences with me, as they have really been helping me with my own struggles.

Hey again!

Has your heatwave broken? Ours is a little better at present.

Has the anxiety remained at bay? Feeling good?

Unfortunately, it will come back. It's part of life, but the more you learn about it and yourself, it will become different. You become bigger than it, and learn to handle it differently.

Right now, my anxiety is back with a vengeance. I can't recall the last time it was to this level (for about a week now). There's a lot going on right now, my head is going in circles, won't bore you with the details. Here's the catch-22 though… I'm physically and mentally exhausted, and the anxiety is the type that pulls you up out of sleep with horrible thoughts, feeling like you have a thousand pound weight on your chest and can't breathe, gasping for air. I need sleep to recover, but good sleep isn't happening, and trying to go to sleep means going where the horrible thoughts are, and startling awake with automatic panic.

But here's the other thing- this beast is familiar , so while it's uncomfortable as hell, it will likely improve in a couple of weeks. Once DD starts school, my priority will be as much downtime as is possible until the anxiety abates. Need a deep recharge of the batteries, and fortunately that usually works. This is where you can eventually get with the anxiety- having the severe anxiety crop up, but not letting it throw you off course completely, because you know it can and will ease (fingers crossed- I'll keep you posted in the coming weeks). It sucks, I'm so tired and just want to sit down in a corner and cry, but instead keep moving along, albeit slowly. I took DD to the bookstore yesterday, and it was fun even though I felt a bit like a zombie the whole time… so that sort of thing.

Anyhow…

Jumping into something completely new and different to you, like the switch, is fantastic. Dr. Weekes talked about how much the human brain loves novelty, so doing new and interesting things, or learning new skills can be helpful to both depression and anxiety. She even recommended rearranging and redecorating your home so that things were in different places. Not only does it interest our brains, but it can counteract thoughts that can be triggered by association with familiar sights/experiences.

So many of those veterans like your grandpa don't consider themselves heros, but hopefully it's okay if we do? He sounds like such a well-centered human being. There is so much power in remaining calm, isn't there? But so many people miss that, and think that drama is the way to go. Are you like him? Are you the calm in the storm? CBT helped slow my mind enough to work through problems very slowly, but strangely faster than the people running around frantically.

Oh yeah, life with someone on the cluster b spectrum isn't easy. Looking back even a long ways, I can see dh having behaviors that were sporadic and emotional, but that I couldn't understand as something like borderline until a few years ago, when other issues seem to push his emotional stability to the brink. The problem is that it happens slowly. If you aren't careful, you slowly compensate and allow things to slide until, well, you're codependent like me…

It can be wise to learn about borderlines and strong boundaries. With typical, healthy people, you can have an expectation of normal boundaries between you that are upheld from both sides. With borderlines, it's kind of like you need a little bit more fortified wall, kwim? It's up to you to hold the line and hold them accountable. For example, my DH is so prone to anger and emotional meltdowns these days, that often the only boundary that works is walking away at the first sign that he's spooling up. It's sad, but you begin to lose yourself the minute you cross that centerline in an effort to help them more than they help themselves. There are a lot of good books and YouTube videos if you're looking for some guidance. One of the big ones that comes to mind is "Stop Walking on Eggshells". It's a good overview of life with someone who's borderline, what to do and not do. My dh isn't diagnosed with borderline, but it's one of the things that sort of fits his various issues and it's been helpful to read up on it.

Speaking of YouTube videos, I've been watching a new-to-me channel recently and it made me think of you. Maybe you've even heard of this guy? Maybe he even came up on this thread already? (I'm really burnt right now…) His name is Mark Manson and he wrote a book titled "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F***." His channel isn't for you if you're sensitive to profanity. He seems to be a long time anxiety sufferer and his videos cover similar things to what we've talked about here. He delves a lot into the workings of the human mind and human nature, and how we often do the logical thing when what we actually need to do is counterintuitive. It nests with a lot of what I've learned in anxiety and codependency work- that sometimes in trying to solve a problem you do so much that you get in your own way and become your own worst enemy. Anyway, if it sounds like that might resonate with you, you know where to find it.

How are video games going? Is your GF playing with you now? Does she enjoy it? Mario Golf is also fun. Some of the games aren't so much like golf as they are a free-for-all run to the finish line.

Yes, DD is adorable . She's going to be a HS senior next week (that milestone isn't necessarily helping my mental state). Sometimes she's a forty year old woman trapped in a seventeen year old's body, but she's still my adorable little baby . And weirdly, she still falls asleep on the couch like that sometimes, lol.

Well, that's another epically long post. One of these days I'm going to do better, I swear it!

Thinking of you and hope it's going great.

The heatwave is definitely still going on. Worse, a transformer blew outside my apartment leaving me without power for over 30 hours. Ended up having to get a hotel and replace everything in my fridge. And I created such a huge sleep dept for myself during it all that I took some hydroxozine to settle my nerves and it knocked me flat on my *** for about 14 hours. And before that, while I was at work there was a police manhunt surrounding my building.

It's... been a crazy week.

How are things with you? I guess it's one thing to talk to someone who's been through what I'm going through, but another to see them actually go through it. I've done the waking up gasping for air thing myself, though I always thought it was a form of sleep paralysis rather than intrusive thoughts. But I'm rambling. Point is that I can relate and it's inspiring to see you tackle your fears with such confidence in yourself. I hope I can learn to do the same for myself!

It's interesting to mention rearranging your home because I've always been something of a neat freak. I always felt like my living space was a reflection of how I felt on the inside, and so when it's a mess then that's how I feel. But I get a lot of satisfaction and a sense of contentment from being organized. And every so often, a good tidy means a complete rearrangement of things. So I can see it.

I am definitely like my grandfather in a lot of respects. I've learned that it doesn't pay to get worked up over little things. And even when it comes to big things I'm usually pretty chill. I remember when I was younger, a friend of mine borrowed my car and ran it over a tree. The cops on the scene were like, "...you're being surprisingly cool about this given that she just wrecked your car." I mean, what good is getting frustrated going to do? The damage is already done.

I do feel like I let a lot slide with my girlfriend. I give her a lot of slack because of her problems, but she has a hard time respecting boundaries and has crossed some pretty serious lines with me in the past without expressing much in the way of (apparent) understanding for the gravity of her actions. I come down on her pretty hard when this happens, but typically all she will do is deflect. I can definitely relate to the "stop walking on eggshells" because it often feels like everything I do annoys her. Even when I'm rightfully upset about something she's done, she manages to somehow make me feel like I'm in the wrong for being mad.

...sorry, didn't mean to vent there, but maybe that's relatable?

I swear pretty ****in' constantly, so that definitely wouldn't be a detriment to me. It does sound like something that might be worth a watch. I'll have to look it up when I'm actually more awake than I am right now

I've managed to get my girlfriend to play Golf With Friends with me. She likes playing crappy courses that people make and post on the workshop. I got Mario Party and Mario Kart for her to play with me, but she got mad at me the day I finally got her to agree to play and has refused to play with me since. I've been having fun with Mario Party, at least. But most of my game time these last two weeks has been spent reconfiguring and hacking a new laptop I just got.

You remind me of something my grandmother once said about me... that I was 10 going on 50. Something about being raised by old people tended to instill a lot of old people tendencies in me, and one of them was just being totally fed up with everyone else's crap. Sounds like your daughter is the same way. I've actually been creeping up on forty myself and not a day goes by I don't look at myself and feel that age. Dating someone considerably younger than myself probably contributes a lot to that, too... especially when she starts using all sorts of zoomer slang that I can't understand.

Anyway, sorry if this is all a little more disjointed than usual, but I'm still reeling from the impact this last week has had on my sleep schedule. Your kind words and encouragement are always appreciated and bring a lot of much-needed positivity into my life. I hope you are doing every bit as well as the confidence you have in dealing with your own struggles would suggest. Much love and support to you <3

Apologies in advance. This one got very long…

That scenario about the power outage and manhunt would have knocked me off my game too. I'm sorry all that happened to you. Hope you hadn't just gone shopping and filled the refrigerator.

How are you feeling now? Has it steadily improved?

For me, just recognizing that something like that is probably going to throw me, is helpful - then I don't fight it and just let myself recover as it gets further away in the rearview. It's kind of like having the flu; you know you're going to feel like crap, but if you take care of yourself and let some time pass, you'll feel better.

My anxiety has eased up quite a bit in the past week. It's still there, and cropping up to a level 4 or so regularly, but that awful feeling of floating out of your body, or weight on your chest, is mostly gone. One of the first things I did when it started was to put away any projects that didn't need to get done immediately, or that didn't seem appealing. Releasing myself from obligations, and giving myself permission to 'just be', as much as possible, is helpful.

I made some mental notes through it, hoping some of it might be of use here. Something particularly noticeable was my ability to separate the physical sensations from the intrusive thoughts. Through the CBT, it seems I've learned to view thoughts as just thoughts, and then pay them limited attention. The physical sensations are uncomfortable, but now don't seem as directly associated with the thoughts as they once were. I can separate them fairly easily at this point. Does that make much sense? They're related, but can also be treated separately.

The intrusive thoughts fall into two categories- ones that you can do nothing about, like big world problems, or ruminating about things that are already said and done— things you just have to accept. Even DH and his problems fall largely into this category. I'm able to acknowledge them, but then set them aside. Then the second category of thoughts is about relevant problems, things that you can/should actually do something about. Those problems are generally better solved when your mind is clear and in a good place. So either way, during severe anxiety, it's become a matter of acknowledging the thoughts and then setting them aside- some without future intent, and some for a better, later time. After that, what's left is the physical discomfort that needs time and rest to pass.

Gosh, I hope that makes some sense as it seems that's how my CBT has developed to work through a bout of severe anxiety. It's like breaking it down into smaller components and dealing with them one at a time. First, feeling physically better by allowing the sensations to die down (which may take quite a bit of time), then assessing real problems, then acknowledging distressing thoughts that have no solution on my part.

Of course that's not to say that real problems in your life are easily dealt with or don't cause stress. I've got a few I can't seem to solve that feel like they're probably eating a hole in my gut most days. But for the most part, they're easier to accept, or deal with, once the physical anxiety symptoms settle down. They become sucky life stress at that point, rather than suffocating anxiety disorder. Again, this is just how it's evolved for me, and it apparently works well enough.

Waking up in the morning is often when it's the worst. It's like all the thoughts are there, and the physical sensations peek. Again, I set the thoughts aside as best I can, and start slowly moving through the day- get up, shower, eat breakfast, etc- and don't allow myself to get stuck on the thoughts during that time. Sometimes they have to be pushed away repeatedly, but that's part of CBT, the more you do it, the more your brain learns to do it, the easier it becomes.

The worst scenario is having the horrible physical sensations when there's a real world problem you absolutely have to deal with. In cases like that, the method is to move through it slowly, do my best, and be gentle with myself if mistakes are made. I'm only human, and a work in progress.

— so there's that….

Oh yeah, I'm also a big believer that your environment directly reflects what's going on in your head. Like you, when my environment is organized and streamlined, it feels like my head is too. Or maybe it's the other way around? Either way, there's definitely truth to that for some of us.

I do feel like I let a lot slide with my girlfriend. I give her a lot of slack because of her problems, but she has a hard time respecting boundaries and has crossed some pretty serious lines with me in the past without expressing much in the way of (apparent) understanding for the gravity of her actions. I come down on her pretty hard when this happens, but typically all she will do is deflect. I can definitely relate to the "stop walking on eggshells" because it often feels like everything I do annoys her. Even when I'm rightfully upset about something she's done, she manages to somehow make me feel like I'm in the wrong for being mad.

Well… you just described life with someone who's borderline very well. That whole blame-shifting, where it mysteriously gets turned around on you, is the worst IMO. My dh did it so seamlessly at times that I'd be left reeling, wondering what the heck just happened. Not realizing what's actually going on can destroy your sense of self esteem and make you doubt your own perceptions. Thank goodness it doesn't sound like you are susceptible to that level of 'mind F***'. Try to keep it that way.

Dh's moods shift on everything, whether real or just perceived. He's not generally proactive about asking questions or clearing up possible misunderstandings, won't ask directly for what he wants/needs, it's like he loves trauma, and drama at times, and thrives on whatever perception makes him the victim. He has trouble taking responsibility for his own feelings or situations. It can be tiring on this end for sure. Sometimes it feels like constant attempts towards getting baited into a game of emotional tug o'war, and even if you choose not to engage, you're still somehow on the hook for slighting them by not participating. It can be crazy making even with decent detachment and boundaries. Guess that's my vent on the subject for today. Yes, the things you say definitely resonate with me as well.

I'm sorry playing video games with her didn't work out. My dh is similar. Nobody will play with him because he can't keep his sh** together.

Hope you're having fun with your laptop anyway. It's always great to get something new like that. Maybe especially so for you?

Lol about the slang. Younger than you or not, relationships in general often seem harder than they should be, and even more so when there are health/behavioral problems. Dh is a few years older than I am, and at his age should be well matured, but he's become increasingly emotionally immature in middle age as his psychological problems have escalated. To a large extent, age truly is just a number….

DD doesn't seem to know much slang. She really is an old person trapped in a 17 year old's body! I think she's compensated for dh's immaturity with countering maturity. It's sad that she's in that position, and it makes me angry at times. He can be so emotionally reactive that she's learned to not show much emotion around him- it's things like that. She seems well adjusted, but I worry about her long term wellbeing.

But I'm old mom, so maybe that's a factor too. Hopefully I'm doing an okay job modeling adult behaviors for her, even in less than ideal circumstances. I'm about ten years older than you and some days feel 100, some days 18. I could add some bodaciously sweet 80s lingo to this thread, if it would help you feel a little younger.

Thank you for your kind and reassuring words. It feels like you get it. You know pretty much what it is I'm dealing with, and that's comforting. Somebody once told me that whatever you're going through, someone else has, or is going through it too. There's strange comfort in that. Actually finding somebody who's been there is a blessing of not being so alone in it

Hope you're having a good week and didn't lose any ice cream in the power failure (that would be terrible).

Oh, wow, it's been awhile. One downside of doing shiftwork for a living is that time has a way of getting away from you. Feels like I was just messaging here the other day!

I had hit a point a little over a week ago where I was starting to feel bad enough to start taking my hydroxozine more. The good news is that it by and large worked to calm me down, albeit not immediately. The bad news is that since I wasn't nearly as high-strung as I was when I first started posting here, it worked by laying me out on my ***. I was basically losing entire days to the stuff, so they upped the dosage on my Zoloft. So now it's just a matter of actually pushing myself to exercise to offset the fact that being calmer has meant expending far fewer calories.

I have been keeping quite busy, at the very least. Spent a few days scraping up the linoleum in my kitchen followed by a few more days of feeling my age. I miss when I could abuse the hell out of my body without repercussions. Now a few days of manual labor make bones I didn't even know I had start to ache

What you say about putting nonessential projects on hold and taking time to just be when you know you need it is a big thing I have been trying to do with myself lately, ideally proactively rather than reactively. I also understand the idea of separating the physical sensations from the thoughts, which is something I often do try when I'm having a panic attack. And you're right - what makes it bad is the combination of that uncomfortable sensation and my mind telling me that it's something awful. If I split them apart, I focus just on the physical sensation and think, "wow, this is mildly annoying" rather than "oh, God, I'm dying". Kind of makes me think of the meme where every symptom you look up on WedMD tells you that you have cancer. I'm realizing as I'm typing this that this technique is something I really need to focus more on with CBT (which is still coming along very slowly with my therapist, unfortunately). I've said this a few times now, but I feel like I have just as much takeaway if not more from this forum than my actual therapist.

Of course, as you mentioned, there are actual real-life stressors at play right now, as well. I'm bleeding money thanks to 400-dollar a month electric bills because of all this heat, and then my truck got towed last week and I had to pay a 300-dollar ransom just to get it back. My girlfriend has seen me annoyed and even aggravated before, but going to get my truck out of impound was the first time she'd ever seen me visibly shaking with anger. The interesting takeaway for me is that anger and anxiety are mutually-exclusive emotions for me: I can't experience them both at once. That's especially interesting because, as we were talking about before, my mind interprets a lot of different emotions these days as anxiety.

Thankfully, I don't have much in the way of responsibility that I have to put up with when I'm going through these problems. I have a very laid back job, get every other week off from work, and paid a doctor years ago to make sure I would never have offspring. The only major responsibility would be a girlfriend with BPD and no means of transportation, which is kind of a big one. As you put it, I'm generally not susceptible to mind games, but the tradeoff there is that exchanges between us unavoidably come off as me talking down to her or treating her like a child. The fact that there's a significant age gap between us doesn't really help in that regard, either.

I have been having a lot of fun with my laptop because in a lot of ways it feels like a new toy. But it also shows off my tendency to obsess, as well. It started off with me installing foobar instead of Winamp because I didn't like how Winamp was working on my laptop (I suppose this also shows my age) along with moving all of my music over to it. It turned into a massive audit of my entire music collection and a weeks-long binge of acquiring more and more of it. I basically have two speeds with anything I do: not interested or all in. And while it was certainly enjoyable at first, I have a tendency to make anything I do feel like a chore after awhile. And so I finally took a break to play a game called Sea of Stars that just came out last week.

Your daughter sounds a lot like me in that regard. Being raised by my grandparents instilled a lot of old people sensibilities in me. Grandma would always tell me that I was "10 going on 50"

And yes, there is a definite comfort in sharing a struggle with another person. "Misery loves company" seems to be especially true in a case like anxiety because there are all of these irrational fears at play that can make you feel like a very broken person without the validation of seeing that it's a very real problem shared by other people. And that validation can be comforting in and of itself, just like having my anxiety medicine available in case I need it is inherently comforting. I feel for anyone going through the same thing I am because I know first hand how awful it is and how much somebody who hasn't experienced it just DOESN'T get it. It's actually kind of funny (not really) because my girlfriend feels that I am very uncomforting at helping her deal with her emotions because I tend to approach them logically or at least with the intention of helping her fix them when all she really wants is just to be comforted, accusing me of being just as tone-deaf with her problems as my mother famously is with failing to grasp mine. I suppose there's something here for me to learn from that.

In any case, I think you put it wonderfully in saying that you and I being able to share our feelings and experiences has been very much a blessing. I appreciate your support and being able to do so in kind for you in any way possible. I hope your week of going well and that you're still on the upswing.

And thankfully, no, I didn't lose any ice cream in the outage. It was a good chance for me to clean out my fridge, anyway

It's good to see you back, but sorry to hear that the anxiety reared up to the degree it did. Just remember that setbacks are to be expected. It sounds like you managed through it though, and hopefully it gets better from this point, especially with the adjustment in your medication.

Something that was impressed on me early in CBT is that it's a very slow process. They say that with CBT, you aren't going to wake up next week or even next month and feel significantly different. In fact, it's such a slow process that you probably won't be aware that it's happening - you just realize one day that things are better than they used to be. The slow nature of it can make it hard to stick with, because sometimes it doesn't feel like it's working much. Personally, it was somewhere between six months and a year (probably closer to the year mark) of consistently doing the CBT exercises that there was noticeable improvement. There was a realization one day that the anxiety didn't dictate my day quite so much. And it continued to improve from there.

But as you can see, anxiety is still something I'm prone to, and probably always will be, but the tools I've developed over time allow me to be more resilient, more quickly. Be patient, if you stick with it, you will see improvements.

Do you find physical exercise helps your state of mind? Even just walking will improve my mental health. For me, it's about an hour of walking most days, and there's a click-point where it works. Less than 30 minutes, it's probably not going to give much anxiety relief, and too much is as bad as too little.

I realize your comment was probably about the calorie burning power of nervous energy but of course exercise helps with anxiety sometimes. (Though I've also been in places where the exercise was just too taxing and made things feel worse.)

How's the linoleum project going? Large area or smaller? What's going down once the linoleum is up? It does sound like a good project to keep busy, but yep, different aches that remind you of the mileage .

Woah! What the heck happened with the truck? Is that a common scheme where you live? Or something unusual? That's insane. It's easy to understand why you would be that angry. Holy mackerel…

I'm right there with you on those sky high electric bills. Ours is about the same right now

That's interesting about anxiety and anger not being able to exist in the same space. I've been thinking about that in regard to my own experience- it seems like anxiety causes a flight or freeze reaction, whereas anger triggers more of a fight reaction. Maybe it's that proverbial fight or flight thing? Either/or, but not both? Good question/observation….

You seem like you streamline and organize your life very effectively in a way that suits your needs, and your GFs issues still end up weighing on you a bit. Do you think she could do more to help herself? I know firsthand that things are generally a lot more complicated than they appear on the surface (especially online), so take my words with a grain…. One of my biggest flaws in regards to boundaries and codependency has been taking responsibility for others that they should take for themselves, kwim? I step in and take care of things, rather than allow them to struggle with their own stuff. Sometimes other people need to struggle with their own situations. Of course, sometimes they need a little help too, but it's important to be able to recognize when to step in and when to not. It seems like from past conversations you do pretty well at knowing where your limits are, but are there areas you haven't thought much about, or things you do out of some obligation or habit, or because you figure they aren't that big of a deal? Sometimes it's easy to overlook little things that you may not even realize add up to bigger stressors- things you could transfer back to being the responsibility of the original owner.

But I can relate to what you said to some extent, even though my H is in his mid 50s. There's an unevenness between us at this point that doesn't allow it to look or feel like a well balanced relationship.

The last few days H is shifting sporadically up and down mood-wise, and I'm having to detach and not engage his energy. It's not always easy. He's like a little gray cloud (that may storm or not), stonewalling, guilt tripping, or making provocative, baiting comments. At this point I've largely learned to interact with him without getting sucked into his gravitational pull. Which makes it feel like management rather than a relationship at times.

Glad you are enjoying your laptop . It does sound like you got on a little bit of a roll with it there, but your ability to stop yourself and move out of that space is good. Nice that you found a new game to play. That sounds familiar. Is it being advertised a bit right now?

You are so right that someone who hasn't been there probably isn't going to 'get it.' Others will have easy answers, without understanding how difficult it may actually be, or how unhelpful their advice can come across. I'm probably guilty of pulling a few "suck it up, buttercup"s in my time though.

You commented how your GF gets frustrated with your uncomforting responses to her, and what she perceives as a lack of support. That's something I deal with with my H as well, but from my standpoint, it's about getting fatigued by him. In some ways, he's perpetual chaos and drama, and I don't have the energy to do that day in and day out. If you comfort a friend once in a while, that's a nice, normal empathetic encounter; when you are continually being tapped by a needy SO, you're going to burn out very quickly. That's just my opinion and experience though.

So glad that no ice cream was harmed and that you were able to do some proactive fridge and freezer clean out as a result.

Hope this heat breaks soon, and that everything is going okay otherwise.

I know how it is with the general phobia disorder or whatever they call it now. I have had it for decades. Fear, anxiety, tension going down my skeletal system, pain in the middle of my chest, and etc. No one will understand it, but people give you advice on something they no nothing about. It is so misunderstood. Depression, and obsessive compulsive disorder make it worse. I cannot even begin to tell you what it has done to my life. I am coping and hanging in there with medication and bible verses. Hang in there and don't loose hope. Live one day at a time, and do one thing at a time. Get as much sleep as you can.