[TgrsPurr]

I've had an epiphany over the last couple of days that I would like to share.

I had an opportunity yesterday morning to give my "testimony", the story of my life and how I've ended up where I am now.

A big part of my story has to do with the way my family treated me and continue to treat me. The intense pain that has been inflicted upon me has caused me great sorrow, extreme rage and the desire to declare to the world the evil things they've done and said to me. I did this yesterday morning...I ended up breaking down before everyone in a waterfall of tears of pain. I thought about all of the things I've survived and continue to try to survive from. I smeared them and gave gorey details of their abuse toward me.

I found the answer in conquering this pain, this sorrow, this rage and this bitterness. I must forgive them. Not only for my benefit, but for theres too. I will only be free to be healed of my broken heart and my broken spirit by forgiving them of all their hurtful words and actions. I have to be willing to love them regardless of what they've done. I've come to realize that most of the time we've been hurt by others...they don't even think they've done anything wrong. They feel justified in there actions or feelings toward me. But only in forgiveness are they free to feel unintimated by my pain and anger and bitterness. To respond in love and kindness.

How do I forgive them? Well, this is not a feeling, it's an action. I reach out to them in love, displaying kindness and an open heart to their own personal pain. Give them the opportunity to forgive themselves just as I must forgive myself the pain I've inflicted on others in my pain, sorrow and anger and bitterness.

How do I "know" I've forgiven them. By no longer feeling the need to tell everyone the horrors inflicted upon me by them. To always be seeking sympathy and justification for my feelings of pain, sorrow, rage and bitterness. To know longer belittle them to others in an attempt to smear them. Then and only then will I be free of these chains of bondage.

Then when the depression of bp hits me, perhaps the intensisty and duration of the depression will be lessened. I'm not so blind as to think I won't ever feel depression again. This is an illness I have that I will always have. But in my times of depression I won't feel the need to lash out in anger either toward them, even indirectly and also the anger and guilt I inflict upon myself. Guilt does not need to be a component of the depression. Whether I'm inflicting the guilt upon them or myself. I can be free of that particular bondage too.

This is the prayer of my heart for today, this moment. I forgive myself and others of all the horrible and atrocious things we've all done and said to each other. I pray that my heart will only reach out in love and be open to myself and them to be free to express that love and understanding and compassion. And may God forgive me and my family for these wrong doings. Allowing God to heal my broken heart, my broken spirit and theirs too.

TgrsPurr.

[nothemama8]

W O W
If I could remember this each day I too maybe able to forgive the past pains thankx for posting this
Angie

[sqrlb8]

Since no one has yet confiscated my computer for crimes of philosophical and linguistic aberrancy and abomination, I'll go ahead and respond to this one too. lol (sorry, I'm "hangin' ten" on this one, to employ the surfing metaphor once more. lol)

In one of Barbara Kingsolver's novels there was this excellect description of what a railroad engineer had to consider in terms of throttle and brake in order to get a long heavy train both over a mountain pass, and then quickly into a siding at full stop. If he were to brake too soon, the train would not clear the pass. If he were to brake too late, he would pass the siding and his last chance to avoid a collision. Yet, the siding was close enough to the pass, and the train long and heavy enough to force a precise calculation.

According to the Sqrl manual of epiphany navigation principles, it is always good to pull into the siding as soon as possible after clearing the pass, the threshold of awareness in the case of epiphany. See, it goes like this, the epiphany unfolded itself; you may have provoked it by probing around its edges, but it unfolded itself. Once it unfolds, and you see it, now the authorship of the activity trades hands from your unconcious to your concious. In that switching over, the dynamics of the revelation begin to change. So at the end of the day, you are looking at a document, (for example) that would have been written by one person in the beginning, and concluded by another.

This becomes a good example of suspending belief. So after the AHA, the sqrl manual says to hold your breath, as if, and suspend the clinging activity to what comes next, it is not the same, lacks the validity of the unconcious. Well, not neccessarily, but the practice of not accepting those next impressions as fact is pretty useful generally.

I'll try to make this specific to forgiveness now. What if I were to paraphrase the initial epiphany back to you thusly? "...then suddenly l saw the history of my family in some larger context which causes my hostility toward them to whither" Then paraphrase the rest of the epiphany, the concious part thusly: "...one of the questions this brings up in me is of forgiveness, I wonder if I understand what forgiveness is?"

I'm not suggesting that you don't want to forgive your family. But I'm suggesting that this epiphany may go further than you think.

It is possible during a semi manic kind of time to set up a utopian standard for ourselves which doesn't actually survive that cycle. It can be a source of backlash for the depression to draw on. That's why the sqrl manul suggests pulling into the siding, I guess.

I hope this has some impetus for reflection in it for you and not anything to diminish any part of this process. I think you are expressing some of the noblest human sentiments here. And why shouldn't that be so, you are one of tthe noblest human beings I know.

[TgrsPurr]

Okay Sqrl, I can't say I fully understand all that you've said here, so with that in mind, my response is this:

There are dynamics to my particular situatin with my family that I'm not willing to publish in public that add a further dimension to this issue of forgiveness. This issue, and gosh I really hate having to be vague like this, is one that gives I believe the very spin on the situation that you are referring to.

First of all, I've already extended a certain amount of forgiveness, but only about certain things, that makes the process almost null and void, because have I really forgiven at all, if I harbored unforgiveness for some things? This is a question I ask myself. I'm not claiming to have it all figured out, I think I'm just saying that at least now I can begin the process on the right "track".

Second, I admit that setting myself up for disappointment is one of my biggest downfalls. I'm a hopeless optismist and when that optimism doesn't bare fruit, I'm deeply disappointed. But on that same front. I'm a work in progress...always thinking, always searching, always evaluating myself and my thoughts and making continual progress at a fairly consistant pace.

I will say you've given more to think about.
thanks sqrl, I can always count on you to bring fresh perspective. tc xoxo

[sqrlb8]

I think your whole process is one of beauty, I really do.

I'm pretty manic of mind lately, and tend to chase down the most peculiar of nuances with excessive energy. Something to think about might be a good thing, but then again not. lol. huh? I'll pause for a bit now.

[TgrsPurr]

I hope you don't pause for too long sqrl. Even in manic mode you have a great deal to offer us all here. xo

tgrsPurr: i'm understanding you. i have situations inside my family that have been there for years and years...i'm determined to peel away some layers and try to become comfortable with them and with myself. i've walled myself off from the hurt and i'd like to get to a space of forgiveness that really works...not the piece meal forgiveness that you mentioned..it doesn't work if i don't forgive all....thank you so much for opening my eyes to myself and my need to fully forgive...xoxo pat

[TgrsPurr]

Pat, you are wonderful. You took the epitamey of what I was saying and internalized it beautifully. thank you for that. I'm honored to be a part of your "process".

I just love the way you think, a beautiful mind indeed.
TgrsPurr.

[sqrlb8]

But I wouldn't try any Oompus-Boompus on her!

well, FORGIVE the lady if she blushes and giggles a bit, running over to her door and flings it open and cries to the wind,"Oompus-Boompus, where are you"?

[TgrsPurr]

LOL, Big Time.

[vacantangel]

Congratulations Tgr for coming to such a monumental point in your recovery process. Although you still suffer from BP, it must be quite some relief to be able to extend forgiveness to those in your family who have hurt you.

I think the act of being able to forgive is multi-layered. There are times when a friend may hurt us and forgiving them might take some time for us to heal our wounds but then not too difficult to forgive said friend.

Then there is the monumental things in life, traumas, etc to which we have deep-rooted hurts that are much harder to come to the point of offering our forgiveness to the other person. That is the level to which you are talking about.

As for myself and my own traumas, I'm very confused on whether I have forgiven those that have hurt me or whether I even felt they needed forgiveness even though it left me traumatized. I guess I'll vaguely lay my cards on the table in order that maybe somebody here can help me with this.

Trauma #1: As a child, I was a victim of attempted rape. I was too young at the time to even know what was happening to me, other than knowing it was not right and I was extremely frightened. I've never given any thought to whether my predator needed to be forgiven. I don't think I've ever held any hatred, etc towards him. Strange but true. However; the aftermath of that was another trauma within the original trauma, that involving my mother and the entire police investigation. It was not until very recently that I *think* I have forgiven her. I had harboured a lot of anger, resentment and confusion about her actions. I've dealt with it in therapy, to some degree, and I don't have those feelings towards her anymore. I've been able to put myself in her shoes, so to speak, and see the situation from her perspective at the time and to put resolution to understanding what she did and why she did it. BUT, and of course, you knew there would be a but in here. Whenever I would hear a news story or a movie or something on Oprah, etc regarding rape, the flashbacks start and the hurt feelings surface. But not the hurt feelings towards my mother, but more so the feelings I had at the time of the attempted rape. The fear, etc. I relive that incident because I am triggered. So, have I forgiven my assailant when I'm so easily triggered and the feelings of hurt and fear surface again and the incident plays over and over again in my head like a movie?

Actually, I think I'll leave trauma #2 for a later time but it is even more confusing to me than this one.

I guess what I'm saying is have we really forgiven the person who has traumatized us if the feelings we had at the time of the trauma still exist in us and the movie continues to play in our heads? And remember, I don't have any anger towards my predator, I have intense fear and hurt.

So, have I forgiven him?

And to further complicate things, there is the forgiving of myself and the role I played in the attempted rape. I'm not so sure I've been able to forgive me yet, although I've been working on this aspect in therapy and getting closer.

[TgrsPurr]

Hmmmm, cause for pause.

Well, I'm staring at this little box not really sure what to say. I have many thoughts, but I think ultimately it's up to you to figure out if you have issues of unforgiveness toward this person. I believe the body holds trauma and if you were too young at the time to really understand what was happening, perhaps massage therapy would help with the physicality of it all. You didn't necessarily present that as an issue, but is it? I think it's something to think about.

Children don't think the same as adults do so it was more of an experience and trauma of your emotional psyche. Something in you knew it was wrong but couldn't necessarily articulate "why", I think. This therefor makes it more difficult to come to terms with. My mother died when I was a toddler. I have one memory of her alive and I remember the funeral...I remember what she was wearing and I rememeber feeling hungry. I felt guilty about this for a long time, I mean really, HUNGRY at your mommy's funeral??? Well, I discovered it wasn't a hungry of the tummy, it was a hunger for my mother, I knew I felt "empty" inside, I knew there was a "void" in my life. I knew I needed nurturing and couldn't get it. So you see, I ate myself up for years over this, now I know better. But I will also say that this experience left me with years of food issues because as a little girl I did turn to food to comfort me. I use to sneak down to the kitchen in the middle of the night and steal cookies and stuff from the kitchen and bring them to my room and hide under the covers devouring them. It was a substitute for the love that had gone from my life. Now, I don't have any of these issues anymore. I'm healthy, I eat right, and like I said in another post, when I'm in the depressive swing of the pendulum I allow myself certain "treats", but always in moderation.

I don't know if this helps you at all AG. I feel for you for what you went through. Life can be so cruel. My best advice is take this and see what good you can use from it, perhaps to help others, or even children. But ultimately you must figure this out for yourself. I don't want to put thoughts in your head that don't belong there, which is why I chose to share my own experience.
TgrsPurr. xoxo

[vacantangel]

I'm sorry you lost your mom at such an early age. Was it just recently that you've been able to put the hunger in the proper perspective?

I guess the bottom line of what I was trying to say in my last post is, have we forgiven someone if we are still triggered by similiar happenings in the present? They say that forgiving doesn't mean forgetting and I can understand it up to that point. Where I'm confused is when you can still be triggered by something. I mean, what does not forgetting really mean? Does it mean that you're able to put it in the past and it doesn't bother you anymore? You don't think about it anymore? Or can you think of it but it not have any effect on any of your emotions? And if it does, does that mean forgiveness never took place? Am I making any sense at all?

BTW, I realized now that I didn't flag my last post with the 'triggering' post icon as I should've. For that I apologize and hope that it has not caused any harm to anyone who may have read it.

[Ganesha]

Your struggle is so painfully familiar.
the path to forgiveness.
you are a noble soul to take this journey.
it really is a path back to you...
as always it seems a path to god or the beyond but really it's going home.
I am here to cheer you on when ever you feel the trek is too much.
I did it, it can be done.
Ganesha

[TgrsPurr]

Okay AG, IMHO this is not about forgiveness. This is about the fear and pain you still harbor from the experience. This is the root of the problem. I also believe it fuels your depression and not just that, but the very depth of your depression. It may not be the only thing, but it's a biggy. It's time to confront those demons, let the skeletons out of the closet and bring it all out into the light. It is in the light we are healed. Write about it, talk to your t about it. Is this someone you still see or know? Or was the last time you saw this person?

As for my food issues, I put all that behind me years ago. I've spent the last 20 years in counseling and while I may not be where I want to be, at least I'm not where I use to be.

Have you heard of regression therapy? Perhaps this is a tool that would be good for you.

It won't be easy AG, but you already know that because it's not been easy carrying all this around inside you. It's a heavy burden to bare. I say dump that load and be done with it.
TgrsPurr. xoxo

[TgrsPurr]

Thank you Ganesha, I know that there will be specific issues to confront along this journey. I know that I'll need help along the way when facing those demons that will want to drag me back into that hellocious space of unforgiveness. It is indeed a spiritual battle. A battle for my very soul. But I'm armed, I'm ready and I have an army of friends here to get my back, that includes you. You touch my soul with your open heart. TgrsPurr.

[vacantangel]

Tgr, I'm glad that you realized what the 'hunger' really meant on that sorrowful day of your mom's funeral years ago and have been able to move on from that now.

I didn't think my trauma had anything to do with forgiveness as far as my assailant is concerned because for some reason, maybe because I was a child, I didn't harbour any feelings one way or another towards him personally. I only see him as a very sick individual that I later found out had a prior history of other sexual assaults. He obviously wasn't getting and continued to not get after mine, the help that he needed, since he was never prosecuted.

I do feel that there is a lot of pain and fear still in me from this trauma in addition to other traumas I've endured since then. I've had several other traumas that are far worse than this one. In this case, I only saw this person one more time since my sexual assault. He was not someone that I knew, he was a stranger to me. I'm still working on self-forgiveness in relationship to this trauma and have made great progress in that aspect.

I've never heard of regression therapy, what is that? Sounds scary to me but then again what therapy in regards to traumas wouldn't be. Even though they are scary and we could be worse in the process, they are necessary in order to be freed from our suffering.

It is a heavy burden to carry. You say dump the load. That's the key here isn't it? How do I dump the load that I've been carrying for all these years? Thanks for your reply.

[TgrsPurr]

Good Morning AG.

Hope you are well today. How's the mania? I saw in another thread that you didn't sleep well last night either. I think that's the aspect of bp I loathe the most. My t says that's part of my problem perpetuating it. WHATEVER!!!!

Anyway, regression therapy is not hypnosis but it is the process of being in a relaxed state, going back to the traumatic incident and reliving it in a healthier way, seeing it for what it truly was...not a personal attack on you, but just a very bad experience you had to endure and you don't need to "own" it anymore. Ask your t about it today and see what she says. She might be able to explain it a little better than I can.

As far as dumping the load, I think the above is your best route to accomplishing that. It's not easy to go through because you may experience some of the original emotion, but that's precisely the opportunity to replace it, with guidance, with something more positive.

Let me know what you think and what your t says, it you don't mind.

Have a wonderful day AG.
TgrsPurr xo

[vacantangel]

Hypomania still intact, I don't think my t has ever seen this side of my cycles, although my pdoc has. Sleep is a major factor in hypomania, not enough of it can trigger an onset of it. Since I'm usually at the opposite end of the spectrum, sleep is rarely an issue for me anymore. So it was quite annoying that I couldn't sleep when I wanted to.

Yes, that's precisely why I said it wouldn't be easy, because you are reliving the trauma and the emotions that went along with it. I just need to get this damn movie to stop playing in my head and leave me alone. Unfortunately, I have a selection of bad movies to 'select' from or more correctly worded, that will decide for themselves which one I will have to watch, sometimes/often times giving me one after another.

I'll try to remember to talk with my t about regression therapy today. I really need to put my past in the past so I can move on to a better more relaxed future without all the garbage that very much affects my behavour today.

I'll let you know how it goes. How are you doing today with lack of sleep yourself? Thx.

[TgrsPurr]

Ag, I'm not quite as good today. I'm not bad, but I'm having some strange symptoms that are very uncomfortable. I can't stop sweating, I know, gross. My heart is racing, my hands are trembling, my mind is a bit bent from the night of tossing and turning and I can't keep still to save my life. Very irritating. But I have pdoc appt early afternoon and will get some help. Thank you for asking. I hope you are still happy happy joy joy.
TgrsPurr.

[vacantangel]

I'm sorry you're feeling irritated with the way you're feeling today. Doesn't sound too pleasant. I hope you're feeling better by now. What did you pdoc have to say about it?

As for me, I think I'm settling into a dare I say 'normal' state between the two ends of the spectrum. That can only mean that the pendulum is going to swing down very soon. Oh happy, happy, joy, joy, NOT!!! But won't worry about that until it hits. I stocked up on cat food and people food for me today, already had enough cat litter. Tomorrow I'll change it and I MUST get to doing my income tax before I run out of time. I certainly don't want to be stuck with that when my cycles make a turn for the worst. Tomorrow I will force myself to do it. I've been procrastinating. I don't know why, it's not hard and doesn't take long, I guess I just don't enjoy doing it but enjoy or not, it MUST be done. And I've chosen to make sure I do it tomorrow. Crossing fingers I don't have to pay big bucks like I had to last year. Don't they know I'm already poor?

[TgrsPurr]

Feeling a little rough today. Pdoc lowered on med and increased another and added one. Today I'm melancholy and slow, but still a little hyper. That would be a mixed state. The symptoms of yesterday have subsided some and I slept for 14 hours last night after taking the new med for sleep. this is much more than I'm use to taking, med wise. I'm thinking I don't like this at all and may do some adjusting on my own. After all it is my body and my illness. I'll keep you updated on what's up with what.

I'm glad AG that you get to receive some sense of normalcy, even if only for a little while. Some is better than none. Keep me posted. xoxo TgrsPurr.

[vacantangel]

I'm glad your symptoms from yesterday are subsiding. 14 hours sleep? WOW!!! Girl, you must've been tired. Hope you sleep well tonight after all that much sleep. I guess if you're unhappy with the amount of meds you're taking, you can play around with them. You're right, it's your body and your illness, who knows how better you feel than you do. Does your pdoc get upset when you take matters into your own hands?

As for me, well, mood seems to be 'ok' still, not great, not bad, just there, if you know what I mean, certainly doesn't feel 'normal' but it's certainly acceptable, far better than the bottom end of pendulum swing, that's for sure. Still didn't sleep well last night, actually much worse than the night before. GreyGoose suggested to me at 4:30am that maybe I should take something to help me sleep, why did that not even occur to me on my own? Anyway, I did and slept find after that, only to be woken up by my sister phoning me this morning. ugh!!! Feel like total crap physically today, not sure if it is stress-related symptoms, adverse drug reactions or wth it is. Very annoying, very uncomfortable, too much pain. It's kinda put a halt on my big plans for the day. Just trying to get by and hope that tomorrow brings better things so I can be more productive than today.

Keep me posted on how you're doing.

[TgrsPurr]

Yeah, I know. 14 Hrs was a bit much, but it was the first night sleep I've had in a few weeks. My doc encourages me to play around with my meds as I see fit. The reason being, she knows I don't like meds in the first place, so the fact I'm taking any makes her feel better. If anything I undermedicate so as to minimize side effects. The drug I rec'd for sleep was pretty potent, but it really had come to that. As you might know, sleep deprivation worsens the bp cycles and the intensity and duration of them. Sleep is just about the most important ingredient in maintaining whatever control we may have over our bp illness.

I'm sorry you've been struggling in that dept. I know how frusterating it is. And doesn't it just drive ya nuts when you do finally get to sleep and something like the phone rings. That makes me crazy, so I'm always careful to turn it off if I feel I'm finally going to be able to sleep.

I know you were planning to do your taxes today. That in itself can cause a certain amount of stress. Get to it as soon as you can so as to get it out of the way. I know you feel physically pretty ******, but try tomorrow, or perhaps have someone help you.

Hope tonight is better.
TgrsPurr. xo