can anyone explain?

hi, i'm new :hat_tip: got a little question, you may have ideas. i'm bipolar 1, diagnosed about 6 years ago, but it's been there pretty much all my life (i'm 28). also add, but off the ritalin for about 2 years. i'm having real problems with my meds at the moment - lithium, valproate and amitriptyline. i used to be on antipsychotics but none of them agreed with me. plus i've been relatively well the last year or so, so anti psychs less urgent. but i've not been taking my general meds for a few weeks, this is because they make me throw up. this is a new development, it's really frustrating. i've spoken to my gp, who has given me anti-sickness pills to take before the meds (like i need another pill...). she said this was only short term while she spoke to the psych but surprise surprise i've not heard from her. anyway, my mood's been a bit odd the last few weeks, not really bad, certainly ot bad enough for hospital, but i'm aware that it's going a bit. it's mainly mixed state (like i usually get) - irritability, depression, anger, lack of control of self etc. but last night something weird happened. i went out for a friend's birthday, we went to the pub, i didn't drink too much, a couple of pints, which is pretty standard. but after about an hour i suddenly felt really strange - really strange. i felt like everyone thought i was an idiot, that they were all avoiding me and when they were talking to me it was only to say i was an idiot, i thought they were all talking about me, saying i was an idiot. there were quite a few people there, who are normally friends, but i got into this thinking that they weren't friends at all, they thought i was a drain on them, they hate me really, they just put up with me, they didn't want me there, they all thought i'm an idiot etc etc. i went really withdrawn, with occasional outbursts of silliness - well, just chatting with people but me feeling it was forced and silly and inane and pointless, followed by me withdrawing into the corner and mentally beating myself up over getting drawn into their idiocy and allowing myself to be fooled by their false "friendliness". we left the pub and they were all going to a bar, which they asked me too but i still felt they were only asking through politeness. i was wandering a bit behind them with my coat hood pulled up, by this time i couldn't stop crying and i didn't want them to know. i decided to go home so started walking to the bus stop instead, but along the road not the pavement, and by this time at least one of them was following me but i ignored them. i think they were worried - but it didn't feel like it, it felt like they were just doing their duty to pretend they liked me and keep up appearances. in hindsight they probably were genuine but it still doesn't feel that way. part of me can see they probably are but i don't really believe it. one of them insisted on sitting at the bus stop waiting with me and i was just hoping the bus would come fast - it did, and i just got on it. i think they tried to phone me but i just switched off the phone. i remember changing buses and standing in the middle of the road waiting for a 2nd bus ignoring traffic going past me - i was quite enthralled by the headlights going past. i was really angry by the time i got home - with me, with them, with everyone, even people i don't know. i'd stopped crying and gone really angry (which is more usual for me) and then i went on the internet and posted a live journal which - well i seemed extremely confused, reading it back. i had a long sleep - i don't normally sleep much at all, but it was broken by really vivid dreams. again, i get vivid dreams quite a bit but not this concentrated or to the point where they wake me up, normally i just remember them in the morning. it's weird, last night was like being really really drunk, but i wasn't that drunk, and it was so unusual, to just switch off like that to the point where i was not sure what people were saying or even what i was saying. it's only coming back to me in bits now, i can't remember much apart from the overall feeling and some flashes. i feel ok now which is strange.

does anyone know what might have happened? i don't think this was a mood swing, it was too random and too quick i think. the only thing i could think of was a brief psychosis, but i've not had one of those in a long time (about 5-6 years) - any ideas?

hello everyone by the way

Hi Dog, I'll take a shot.

There are at least a couple bipolars here who for one or another reason do not take any meds. I am one, and for much the same reasons as yourself. I'm also bipolar I. It ain't easy, huh?

My take on this episode of yours is simply the "progressive" nature of bipolar. In my own experience, progressive hasn't meant that it gets "worse" but that it changes all the time. The feelings you describe of your friends' estimation of you I know well. It's paranoia. It's included in your deluxe bipolar package with no additional cost. What a deal, eh? (Hope you've got a sense of humor about it all, or you're not going to like me worth a hoot.)

Some of us non medicating bipolars, myself too, try to find some emergency only meds, which though disagreeable, help us cope with the most severe edges of our symptoms. For me, Zyprexa works very well when the more psychotic features present. It is one that works within an hour or so, as opposed to the typical several weeks and months of titration that so many psych meds require before any efficacy is noticed.

You landed yourself in a good place for learning and support when you came here. Hope to hear more from you. Nice meetin ya.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
It's included in your deluxe bipolar package with no additional cost. What a deal, eh? (Hope you've got a sense of humor about it all, or you're not going to like me worth a hoot.)

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

i have - can i steal that phrase?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Zyprexa works very well when the more psychotic features present. It is one that works within an hour or so, as opposed to the typical several weeks and months of titration that so many psych meds require before any efficacy is noticed.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

i've tried zyprexa before - it really didn't like me, i put on ridiculous amounts of weight, which didn't help the depression! the only one that ever worked for me really, i mean with no major side effects, was quetiapine, but the last time i took that i landed in casualty after passing out at work. so i had to give up on that too. i think my old psych was quite keen on the idea of emergency antipsychs, he was the one that made sure there was always a prescription for quetiapine on hand just in case, but as i said the last time that didn't work out. the problem is that at the moment my immune system is stupidly low (apparently this could be because of the intense meds in the past) and the antipsychs tend to bring out any dormant infections really fast (that's how i passed out, a tummy bug i'd been incubating suddenly came on - all very dramatic, not very nice....). so i'm a bit stuck - i do try to take my lithium and valproate but at the moment i'm torn between nausea and mental difficulties - yay!

the paranoia is fairly normal i think, what freaked me out a bit was the sudden onset and dissipation - the whole thing only lasted a few hours, and came on so fast. that hasn't happened in a while. eek.

nice to meet you too

Wonderful, a new sense of humor on the site! Welcome indeed, can never have too much of that.

Yeah, the weight gain on Zyprexa is rather extraordinary. My brother is on rather a high dose of the stuff, and he went from athletic linebacker build to almost 300 pounds of inertia. But he can't seem to do without it either. Question: When you took the zyprexa, did it affect your psycotic symptoms or anxiety in a positive way at all? The reason I ask, is simply to explore further this idea of an emergency med. I focus on zyprexa because it works immediately in the short term. My point is that if say, the paranoia is at a point where your functioning is impaired, and a zyprexa tablet knocks the cold sweat out of it, and you can get yourself to work and through your day, then it's a good emergency tool. Once the symptom passes, put the pills away until the next incident arises. Have you tried that approach? Like when I get the screaming voice in my head that despairs the fact that I draw breath on this planet, If I stay on the zyprexa for only a few days, it's gone, and I didn't have to open my wrists to make it stop.

From the other end of the spectrum, I find that mindfulness is the key to survival. Ever heard of DBT? Dialectical Behavioral Training? It's all about mindfulness training. It's the best thing to ever emerge in the field of mental health in my opinion.

If you're in the mood for a good laugh, go to Creative Corner and read the Aphrodite and Adonis thread by Ganesha. It's long, but you won't regret it. lol.

Hello Dog, I want to respond to your post, however I'm crunched for time at the moment. But wanted to let you know I've read it and want to post to you as best I can. Be back a little later, kay? TgrsPurr, xo

thanks both you guys

i've never tried zyprexa as emergency meds, only in long term - i put on 5 stone in 6 months (er 14 pounds to a stone, if that helps). i don't know how far my functioning is impaired at the moment - on the whole i'm not doing too badly - a bit erratic but not to the extent where anyone's particularly concerned. but last night it definitely affected my functioning....

i will check out dbt - cbt definitely helped me, is it similar?

i'll check out the story too - and look forward to tgrspurr's reply

Yes, CBT and DBT dovetail nicely. Both are centered around the idea of becoming aware of how we think and even changing the way we think.

I've been through CBT and am currently in a DBT group. The focus on mindfulness of the DBT is extraordinary though. It is derived from eastern meditation practices but scoured of all mysticism and rendered utterly clinical and clear to a secular mind. There are some excellent links pertaining to it right on this site. If you go to the top bar and click on Home or Resource directory, you should be able to spot it. There is enough there to spend the rest of the day reading .

I'm gonna disappear for the day in a little while, but will look forward to lots more talking with you. Tc.

i keep getting more flashes of things coming back to me :S thing is i don't know whether the things i'm remembering happened in real life, in a dream, or on the telly. i definitely remember them - but from where? they feel like short term memories, very recent, but i don't know whether they happened or not. one of them was of seeing a baby being attacked by a cat and screaming and me thinking "well it serves the baby right for being in the way" and generally being angry with the baby and laughing at it. but i don't know whether i dreamed it, or it happened or what. it seems really vivid but quite sort of ethereal too - but is that because it's a memory and not an incident or because it never really happened? most odd.

I haven't forgotten about you my dear, I just can't focus on your post enough to focus on responding to your post with my full attn. Busy day today for me, but I had to let you know I'm thinking of you, I care and I want so desperately to get home so I can respond, lol. I'm what you might call a big mouth...I always gots something to say, lol. But I see your corresponding with sqrl, fabulous! He's an amazing man with amazing insights. Seek him out any chance you get...you won't regret it.
Talk to you soon, TgrsPurr, xo

hey no worries - i'm a big mouth too i look forward to hearing more from you xx

Hi Dog, I'm home now and can take my time here. Uh oh, for you, lol.

I see two sides to this episode, first, I believe what you experienced is a bp cycle, paranoia with psychotic features. I know that in the moment of it all "happening" it "felt" very real to you. You had an emotional reaction to what you were perceiving, even crying at one point because you were so consumed by the belief that these ppl really didn't like you, or want to be with you, and that your an idiot that only deserves sympathy.
Having read and reread what you wrote, based on that, none of these are true. Therefore, it IS your illness and as sqrl said, it is progressive. So the fact that you haven't experienced psychotic feature for 6-7 yrs, doesn't really mean anything. My heart goes out to you for what a horrible experience that must have been. But can you see now, in the light of day, that this was an "episode", not reality? You even state in your post things like, "I think they were worried" and "I felt that they..." or "I thought that they...", as if now you're saying you know it wasn't true or based upon anything in reality. Then the headlights of cars hypnotized you to the point that you're standing in the street with oncoming traffick, seemingly oblivious to the fact that you have put yourself in danger. To me, that's a clear indication of detachment.
So do you see what I'm getting at here? Coming from someone outside your own head, can you see that this is not "normal" behavior, thoughts, feelings and actions?

Now before getting all upset with me for saying you were out of touch with reality, allow me to make my second observation. LOL

I'm no expert, but your paranoid feelings, I believe, were issues that already lay below the surface. That even in the light of day and both feet planted firmly on the ground, you believe on some unconscious level that you are an idiot, that you don't deserve their freindship, that they only pity you and don't really want to hang out with you, etc...your self-esteem issues are easy prey for your illnesses. You've known your whole life that you are different. You've known that there is something perhaps "off" about yourself, this led to self-doubt, self-loathing and difficulty trusting others, even difficulty cultivating relationships of any kind. What do you think? Is this sounding like "truth" to you at all? Mind you, this is just my observation based on a 2 posts you've made, my experience of you is quite limited, lol.

So, all that being said, I find you to be quite intelligent, articulate, expressive, honest, sincere, kind and empathetic. I believe that you are of a good heart and a gentle soul.

As far as the med issue, I have to bow out on this one. I'm confronting some issues of my own on that front, so right now I don't feel quite as concise in my thinking about meds, that I once had. I will say, meds are something you need to continue to experiment with and find out what works with the least amount of side-effects. Geez, I can really related to that. It sounds as though you are biologically quite sensitive to chemicals, especially particularly strong ones such as the anti-psychotics. Lamictal might be worth looking into.
Also, on this subject...I'm not going to nag you or lecture you but I will simply state that drinking alcohol, in any amount, is not a good idea for you. Please be careful about that, especially if taking meds.

Well, I hope this has been of some help to you. Do you see now why I couldn't do this at work, lol, didn't I mention that I'm a bit long winded? LOL, that just be THE understatement of the year! Keep your self of humor, don't take life too seriously and keep searching for anwers and solutions, okay?
We'll be here with you every step of the way, you are not alone on the journey we call bi-polar. I feel as though I've finally found "my ppl" since finding this place and posting here. Lots of great ppl. I don't think you'll be disappointed. Check out the other forums, go to chat if you're able and get to know some of us. Frankly, I'm really looking forward to conversing with you some more. I pretty much hand out here in bp, so look me up on my posts and I'll look for your too. TgrsPurr. xo

the reason i ask is this. i went through an episode similiar to yours about 15 years ago. i was on elavil and i drank a couple of glasses of wine.......what happened next was bizarre beyond belief...i was at a big photography workshop in Yosemite and pretty much went through the weirdest night ever. i do not remember class the day after the episode. i talked to a psychiatrist then, but i had not been diagnosed at that time as having BP.....the psychdoc was certain that the alcohol and elavil just hit me at the right and escalated what would have been coming on anyway...pat

to: fayerody - i'm meant to be taking amitriptyline now, but i've not taken anything for a little while - a week or two maybe? i'm not really keeping track of when i'm taking them. i feel so guilty about not taking them (don't know who i feel guitly to, i guess that i know that if it all goes horribly wrong then i'll be to blame. but then am i to blame if the meds make me ill and i've spoken to the doc? i don't know. "over each mistakes were made, i took the blame" as the song goes.... but thanks for the advice, i'll bear it in mind.

tiger: that all makes sense. i think by yesterday afternoon i'd worked out that a lot of what i could remember was totally out of touch with reality, it's all very strange, it feels like a dream.

and i think you're right about the paranoia not being entirely imagined. just about all of what you both said makes a lot of sense. i'm still feeling quite drained and tired, but i've bitten the bullet - partially at least - and i'm going to have a chat with the gp later. i'm nervous of going in as i'm sure they'll blame me for everything for not taking meds, but i'll try to stand up for myself... thanks for your help

i just spoke to my gp, she said she had spoken to the psych about the meds problem, but they've not been in touch (my old psych left and discharged me cos i was ok). thsi doesn't surprise me really. but by the end of the call i was just getting worked up and thinking why am i talking to you? why did i bother blah blah and now i feel like hitting something. oh dear. counterproductive maybe?

Oh Dear, if you're going to hit something, make it a punching bag or if need be a pillow. I've been known to smash a dish on the floor from time to time or a glass, but it's something that I won't miss.

Health care in this country is a sad state of affairs. We are all frustrated on one level or another. The dr's don't listen, they give us the drugs from the pharaceutical company they are in bed with. The dr's are always rushing us in and out to get as many patients in on any given day. The best we can do is be persistant, articulate, factual and tactful. Most ppl by nature will respond to this. You catch more bees with honey than vinegar. TgrsPurr xo

yeah, i agree. my gp is usually ok, to her credit, but i'm so jaded with the entire health service. and then i do talk to them and i just end up feeling aggressive. today's been an aggressive day - i just wrote a letter to someone complaining about something and i had to stop myself from being really really rude (and highly unprofessional). if i'm going again i really won't be impressed, i have exams soon and moving house and i don't need this as well. pfft

I know my husband goes through situations like this one, generally they are mild but when he adds alcohol to this situation it gets out of control, he is out of control. Drugs have very strange reactions to alcohol. Try staying away from it next time you have those feelings.

i see the points being made about alcohol, but i'm an ex alcoholic and i do know my limits now. i can get happy drunk these days, it's not always a depressed thing. and that night i only had 2 pints (or less), so i really wasn't drunk. sorry, that's not meant to sound that defensive, but there it is....

my gp is quite worried about my mood and the not taking the meds - so she's sending the new psych from the psych team round today to talk about it and see if we can sort something out. i'm a bit nervous xx

This is good though, to get some communication going.
Natural to be nervous, but we are wishing you lots of luck and with all positive energy flowing through our keyboards things just have to go well, eh?
Let us know how things go, if you wish to.

Sincerely,
DE



((((((((((( dogtanian )))))))))))))

it's a new psych - he seems very nice, quite young. he said that he thinks only taking the meds sporadically especially at quite high dosage is not good as taking 1000mg lithium once a week i will really notice side effects etc and it's more likely to make me sick. he also said he agrees that he thinks this is partly psychological - the sickness - so he said he's going to remove valproate altogether (yay!) and cut the lithium right back from 1000mg to 200mg to start and then build it up slowly, to 400 for a while and see how i manage with that. he said he'd rather i get a regular dosage at a low level than a massive blast of it weekly. he says my current mood needs to be curbed a bit so he's putting me back on quetiapine - but again at a tiny dose. he says i'm clearly quite sensitive to it after last time so he's starting me on 12.5mg building up to 100mg over a week (i was on 300mg before) to see how it goes. he said that should be enough to keep me level but not to have a major bad reaction to. to be fair, it seems like he listened to me and reached a compromise. he does seem to take it seriously and i know that my life will be really hard without the meds. also he said the exams i'm doing are probably stressful and gave me revision tips i'm feeling quite reassured. and i know that if it doesn't work, he'll listen to my concerns

Good news
Many meds need to be titrated very gradually, especially Lithium, it is bad to just hit someone with a high dose all at once and to my knowledge hardly ever done.
I didn't like Depakote either, that is another one that has to be increased gradually.
I am happy to hear the new pdoc is taking this seriously, I hope this all means you are going to be on the right track now.
Please take care, and thanks for the "thank you" which was much appreciated.

Sincerely,

DE

the message was also appreciated

i was initially titrated on lithium - but that was years and years ago, so i think it's good to just check the levels again and try something different.

i can't remember whethre i was titrated on depakote = i was under section and not quite with it! hopefully i won't react the same to the quetiapine this time!!!!

Sometimes you read a thread and it just defines what this is all about. This one is one of those to me. In three short pages, look at the changed dynamics of problem solving. What I nice entry you have made here Dog, I hope to see you around a lot.

aww that's a lovely comment sqrl thanks. this thread has also helped me to work through the issues, and go from panicking and worrying about it to actually doing something proactive about it and that means the docs and even my parents are pleased with my handling of the situation. which makes a very nice change