Usually I know... the other night I did not.

I got really aggravated with H and told him to turn off his damn music. The problem is there was no music. I said this in front of my son so H tried to cover for me but it was obvious. I'm usually really good at knowing when I'm hearing things but this was so real. I could have sung along it was low but there. I'm eh still but I'm functional. Again I'm ****en silent. I see pdoc in 8 days and T this Thursday. I thought I was ready to be on my own but if I can't tell what's real and what's not I guess not. I don't even know what to say. I'm trying to keep busy with all this school stuff but it's not enough. I wish I could understand myself enough to get proper help. Just because I restrict assess to things voluntarily doesn't mean I'm good/okay. It means I understand myself enough not to trust myself to even be alone.

WHO THE **** WOULD THINK SOMEONE WHO CAN'T TRUST THEM-SELF ALONE IS OKAY.

I don't know how to be taken seriously. Hell I don't know if I am being taken seriously. I kinda just want to cancel everything and just stop but even H's T said I can't cancel (I said I could cancel my appointment for his appointment.) I'm so frustrated with myself.

HI!

I am glad you are okay.

I could be wrong, yet it seems you often want to cancel appointments where it is possible you might find some help?
Do you feel this is true or not so true?

Do you go to your appointments prepared? I think you have tried to do so in the past?

I think the only way we can be sure we are being taken seriously, or to be sure we are understood, is to ask the pdoc and/or the therapist about their own understanding at any given point.

If you wish to know if you have been taken seriously and/or if you have been heard at all, why cancel appointments? We need to inquire of those very people in order to know what they are thinking in order to have our concerns answered.

I have been here just a little over 3 years now. I don't recall you ever feeling okay with a therapist. Is this true? I could be wrong. If this is true, do you know why it is true? Establishing a relationship with a therapist is often very important, as doing so usually gives someone a place where they can safely share and can feel safe and supported. Therapists might also help to facilitate better understandings between patients and pdocs when the pdocs do not know the patient well.

Do I recall that you often feel that you will scare the therapist if you reveal the truth? Has this happened before?
If so, have you been able to express this concern to any "new" therapist? If so, has the new therapist been reassuring to you?

Sometimes, some practitioners say that the relationships we do or do not form with our therapists have very similar attributes to our other relationships. I don't know if this is true or not, for any of us. It seems to hold some truth for me.

Are you able to form relationships with other people? (outside of your H and your son)
If so, what are these relationships like? Do you find them helpful, fulfulling, supportive, other?

Are there programs you could attend which would give you more support and where others might get to know you better?
These might be day programs or evening support goups, etc.

It is almost impossible to know if we are understood when we isolate. In order to get an idea of who we are in relationship to others, we need to have others reflect back to us information about who they perceive us to be, how they perceive our behaviors, our intentions, etc. We cannot understand these things when we are alone most of the time.

It is very important for you to figure out some approaches to forming some relationships, maybe starting with a therapist?

I believe you can stabilize, can overcome a lot, if only you can form therapeutic relationships with a therapist and a pdoc. You need a team that works together. You seem to often be concerned about not fully disclosing information to these people. If you truly desire to get as well as possible, you might as well tell them your truth.

Life is short. Time is passing by. You can get a handle on your life. Why not dedicate yourself to doing so? Make getting well your number one priority. Keep your eye on the prize at all times. Are you able to commit yourself to being honest, to working with a team, to giving recovery your very best every single day?

You are a very intelligent, loving person. I believe you have an incredible amount to offer others. I would like to see you enJOYing your life as much as possible. I'll bet you would like to be enJOYing life as well. So, why not take some chances and give it all you have to give? What do you have to lose?

My very best to you and to yours, MM!

I want to say thank-you so much for responding. This means so much to me.

seems you often want to cancel appointments

I do often want to cancel appointments. I don’t cancel appointments I go anyway.

Do you go to your appointments prepared? I think you have tried to do so in the past?

I write but with most I go quiet. Most therapists wont read what I write and I don’t know how to vocalize it. I’m no good at reading out loud so that doesn’t work. There have been a couple of therapists that have read what I write or have been able to keep me talking enough to help. It’s when those go in my file that I get freaked out. I was raised not to put anything on paper.

I think the only way we can be sure we are being taken seriously, or to be sure we are understood, is to ask the pdoc and/or the therapist about their own understanding at any given point.

What do I ask to make sure I’m heard. I’m honest but downplay naturally.

If you wish to know if you have been taken seriously and/or if you have been heard at all, why cancel appointments?

I want to be done trying. This is to hard. I get stressed out before each appointment and stumble through them and they don’t help in the end.

We need to inquire of those very people in order to know what they are thinking in order to have our concerns answered.

I have been here just a little over 3 years now. I don't recall you ever feeling okay with a therapist. Is this true?

I’ve had a couple of them but not in the past 3 years no.

If this is true, do you know why it is true?

I can’t seem to click with any of them. Every 2 weeks is too long for me but no one has the availability to see me weekly.

Therapists might also help to facilitate better understanding between patients and pdocs when the pdocs do not know the patient well.

I trust my pdoc more then T but I’m the person that doesn’t go into much detail. Just x is happening.

Do I recall that you often feel that you will scare the therapist if you reveal the truth? Has this happened before?

I’ve been transferred many times for higher frequency appointments which never work out because they have the same availability as the previous T.

If so, have you been able to express this concern to any "new" therapist?

I haven’t really been able to verbalize anything real to my therapists

Are you able to form relationships with other people?

Most of my relationships with my family are superficial and I don’t even say “Hi” to others. Sometimes even when they say hi to me. I generally answer with one / two word sentences. Hell even with my husband I get that quiet some times.

If so, what are these relationships like? Do you find them helpful, fulfilling, supportive, other?

The only relationships I have is on PC and honestly I feel I take more than give. What you see on the boards are my only communication with others I hardly ever PM.

Are there programs you could attend which would give you more support and where others might get to know you better?

I’m sure there are but with our schedule and my fear of the human race I’m not sure I could handle it. They would need a pdoc regularly but meds don’t work like that it takes a while to work. I would need an end date.

It is almost impossible to know if we are understood when we isolate. In order to get an idea of who we are in relationship to others, we need to have others reflect back to us information about who they perceive us to be, how they perceive our behaviors, our intentions, etc. We cannot understand these things when we are alone most of the time.

I’m around others I just don’t talk to them

It is very important for you to figure out some approaches to forming some relationships, maybe starting with a therapist?

How many therapists do I try before just giving up?

I believe you can stabilize, can overcome a lot, if only you can form therapeutic relationships with a therapist and a pdoc.

I hope so.

You need a team that works together.

My new T and old pdoc work at two different locations. My pdoc only work monday/tuesday.

you might as well tell them your truth.

I don’t even know what to say. I say I’m depressed or hearing things and what not. They ask me to scale my feelings and then are shocked / confused why it’s so low.

Why not dedicate yourself to doing so?

I spend most of my time researching how to help myself. I just suck at using any skills when needed.

Are you able to commit yourself to being honest, to working with a team, to giving recovery your very best every single day?

I feel like I have. I’m tired. I have to keep trying at least for another year.

You are a very intelligent, loving person. I believe you have an incredible amount to offer others. I would like to see you enJOYing your life as much as possible. I'll bet you would like to be enJOYing life as well.



So, why not take some chances and give it all you have to give? What do you have to lose?

I have to.

I think WC has bought up some VERY important questions that has got you thinking.... which is wonderful !

You have struggled to find a T since you moved to Florida,

I know your WV T really knew you well and you had a great relationship.

I don’t think you have the skill set yet to go without having a T. I know that you have struggles from numerous side while trying to get into a groove of seeing a T and then understanding how you truly are feeling... you hide a lot and downplay how your really doing out of fear. A T or Pdoc can only help as much as you allow them too.

I think you like to keep secrets... maybe not intentional but I think you struggle like many people to be honest, yes a new T might be alarmed to hear how you truly are feeling. I know a 50 min session can fly by in what feels like seconds. But you need to figure out a way to explain how you feel in either a short written note or a brief suck it up and talk out loud.

Maybe this new T will be a good fit ??? But you will never know until you push and be heard.

Honestly I think you would do a great service to yourself and family and do an PHP or IOP. When was the last time you walked outside and felt the sun on your face and happy to go somewhere? When did you last take a walk on the beach ? When did you lady feel truly alive??

If you can’t remember it easily then you have been stuck too long and it’s going to take a big cry out for help to get those needed services and I say it again ... the easiest way to get into one is to be signed up while IP..

okay your not actively suicidal on the edge of the ledge but so what ... you lie often when a provider asks you how your feeling if your suicidal ??? So go IP saying your suicidal.. get in the system , get signed up so you will have that extra support when your discharged.

I truly believe the only way your going to get more access to resources is to jam yourself in hospital and out patient services.

Squeak wheel will get oil, currently your wheel is rusted shut.

Talk a step ... take a leap ... fight for yourself to find enjoyment in your life.

Think of it as going out to dinner... if you just ask for chicken.... sure you will get chicken , maybe a drumstick only. If you ask for Chicken and potatoes and a vegetable with salad. There .. it’s a whole meal. But you only got it because you asked for each bit...

So figure out what you want to order , in life

I'm sorry I've been away. I will reply tonight. Thank you for both of your responses. They made me cry.

Oh no I’m sorry I didn’t mean to make you cry

It was a good thing. Here seems to be the only place that understands me.

I’m glad you are here. Birds of a feather is a wonderful comfort

Hi!

I am just catching up again.

I hope any crying was helpful/healing?

MM. you'd written you feel understood here. This is great! Do you know who made it possible for you to feel understood here? You did. You do! You DO have the ability to share your experiences in a way that allows others to understand what you go through. This is good news! I believe you can achieve this with a therapist wiho has the ability to help you to feel more comfortable with sharing when meeting with her.

I remain very hopeful for you, for your healing, for your future.
We are here for you, with you!
Thanks so very much for helping us to better get to know you.

You have struggled to find a T since you moved to Florida,
I know your WV T really knew you well and you had a great relationship.

I had some rough times with WV T but I only worried her a few times.

I don’t think you have the skill set yet to go without having a T.

How do I get the skills?

I know a 50 min session can fly by in what feels like seconds.

My time seems to drag on and on. I talk for like the first 10 min. Then I have nothing to say. It’s really frustrating. I feel others would be helped more with the time.

Maybe this new T will be a good fit ??? But you will never know until you push and be heard.

I’m not sure she’s said some really offensive things.

Honestly I think you would do a great service to yourself and family and do an PHP or IOP.

I’m afraid of IOP/PHP and the only one I know of I’m not sure is even running right now and it has no pdoc it’s just group therapy. I don’t think I would do well in that situation. Even going to places I’ve been for years with people I know stresses me out.

When was the last time you walked outside and felt the sun on your face and happy to go somewhere? When did you last take a walk on the beach ? When did you lady feel truly alive??

I don’t remember

you lie often when a provider asks you how your feeling if your suicidal ???

I don’t lie though, I’m honest just short and to the point, especially when I feel like that.

So go IP saying your suicidal.. get in the system , get signed up so you will have that extra support when your discharged.

I’ve never been offered more services in IP. All IP has ever done is mess with my medication. I like the fact you see a pdoc every day. Usually IP groups are not useful. I don’t know if it’s just my IP but I’ve heard bad things about the other hospitals. I did learn my therapists office has a walk in clinic downtown 8-7. So If things get really bad I can go there. I see pdoc next week though

I truly believe the only way your going to get more access to resources is to jam yourself in hospital and outpatient services.

I need to tell T 2x a month isn’t enough for me. It’ll be a miracle If I can get that sentence out. I need to talk to my husband about my options. I’d ask my case worker but she takes too long to get back to me.

Think of it as going out to dinner... if you just ask for chicken.... sure you will get chicken , maybe a drumstick. If you ask for Chicken and potatoes and a vegetable with salad. There .. it’s a whole meal. But you only got it because you asked for each bit...

I have to decide what I need and write it down and talk to T and Pdoc.

Do you know who made it possible for you to feel understood here? you, Christina, BeyondtheRainbow, bizi and a bunch of other people but it's come because of access, fear and time, lots of time. I don't know how to replicate that.

What has she said offensive ????

As for your feeling someone else needs it more ?? No just no.. you deserve help just like anyone else. I think you need to change your thought process on that, reframe it. Think of if you needed a surgery for a health problem and of course other people need it too. You both deserve its just the same. Mental health services are no different.

The only way to acquire skills is to be around a steady steam of learning coping skills and knowing how to actually use them when you need them, that’s hard. But do able. I have a huge tool box but my last Florida trip? Good grief I struggled to actually use them effectively. I was rather upset with myself.

If you don’t remember the last time you were out and just soaked up a bit of sun then I think it’s very important. Take a chair and just sit outside, we all need sunlight as it produces vitamin D. Low vitamin D causes depression, I also have to take a strong supplement, as sun doesn’t do enough for me.

I know being out and about around people is stressful, I struggle with this but I think everyone whether they have a mental illness or not has to push ourselves a bit out of our comfort zone to continue to grow and enlarge our life.

Maybe if your running out of things to say in T , just tell her you don’t know what else to say and ask her to start a discussion.. that is part of the service a T has to offer . To prod and poke and try to uncover feelings.

Just keep pushing and questioning where you can find more resources.

: hug:

She's likened some of my symptoms as that's just how females process things. Even when I said the symptoms are weird for me and DH is concerned.
She said because of one of my son's dx. he can't be empathetic. (BS he's the most empathetic person I know).
Her views on teens are off putting.
She praises DH for dealing with my ****, like a lot.
On topics like hallucinations and paranoia she feels there's nothing to talk about the only thing that can help is meds. Which is the main reason why I go to therapy to deal with those thoughts w/o self harm because medication isn't 100%. Being alone amps up these things.
She told me to confront an unstable person who can be abusive. (not H, H is not abusive.) <---This one I told her how much of a horrible idea that was
It's like she took courses 25+ years ago and never updated her info.

I find her sexist, ageist, and ill informed but it's only the 4-5 meeting. I need to make this work.

The only way to acquire skills is to be around a steady steam of learning coping skills and knowing how to actually use them when you need them, that’s hard. But do able. I have a huge tool box but my last Florida trip? Good grief I struggled to actually use them effectively. I was rather upset with myself. I have a bunch of coping skills it's using them that's my issue.

As for your feeling someone else needs it more ?? No just no.. you deserve help just like anyone else. I think you need to change your thought process on that, reframe it. Think of if you needed a surgery for a health problem and of course other people need it too. You both deserve its just the same. Mental health services are no different. I'm trying really hard to view it that way but I have a problem viewing my issues to a sprained toe vs needing to amputate a toe. Most agree it's just a sprain but that's because there's no x-rays available and I walk on it seemingly fine. Everyone here knows I probably need pins but convincing the dr is difficult. Even in crisis I either don't see it or am to afraid to speak up.

I'll go outside and look up vitamins.

Maybe if your running out of things to say in T , just tell her you don’t know what else to say and ask her to start a discussion. I'll try this this week.

I'm curious. What do you think of this... I've been stable for almost 11 months now. I'm not struggling with anything major. Nothing is on fire. I am working with my doctors to go off my meds and I'm a bit scared. I asked my pdoc to see me more regularly to support me. I was going every three months, now I'm going every 5 weeks. I was seeing my therapist once a month and now I'm going every two weeks.

There are most definitely other people who probably need the services of my pdoc and my T more than I do, but I spoke up about what I feel I need to be supported. I assume those people do the same for themselves. My doctor and my T agreed to seeing me more regularly. I let them worry about everyone else. They did not tell me other people needed their time more. If they did I would certainly wait.

Am I a bad person because I am well and I am using services for support that others in greater need could use? I'm just curious to know how you'd view this. It won't hurt my feelings, so just be honest.

From my perspective you have a pattern of letting the needs of people that you don't know or have insight into stand in the way of you getting the care you need. It isn't like you can see the people and the list of their needs, you have just decided that somehow you're taking away from them. You don't even have proof of others going without, you assume that is the case. If there was a physical line of people and you were jumping ahead I would support what you're saying, but there isn't. There are a lot of issues that are difficult to manage. This one is manageable. You just need a shift in perspective.

You may have a sprained ankle and someone else might be losing a toe. There are more doctors than just one available. Plus, there are nurses and physical therapists and nurse practitioners and radiologists. You can both be treated. Both of you need help because neither of you will be walking for a while... You look at it and see a line of people in priority order. I look at it and see a web of people moving in and out of services as needed. Try to see the web, ok?

Just sending you some hugs today.
((((((HUGS)))))
bizi

now I'm going every 5 weeks. I was seeing my therapist once a month and now I'm going every two weeks. I don't think seeing pdoc 1x a month or T every two weeks is excessive. I would love to see pdoc 1x a month and T weekly for me that's to excessive when T's hardly have availability every 2 weeks and pdoc schedules 7+ weeks out (next available).

I feel YOU have made it possible to feel understood here.
We have interacted with you, have expressed genuine concern, have shared some of our own struggles, etc.

Yet, you have shared your experiences, your disappointments, your hopes and more.

We could not carry on a conversation with you if you were not sharing the way you do with us.

Any chance you might try to communicate with a therapist in this way?

Have you considered maybe printing any of the posts which might help you to express yourself, your concerns, your anxieties, your needs, your hopes, your desires and more?

I am glad you continue to reach out here. We all learn from sharing with each other. I know you are often quiet and can isolate at times. I just want you to know you are an important member of this community and I, for one, miss you when you are quiet.

If it isn't excessive for me it isn't for you. Your docs have scheduling challenges, but that isn't your fault!

Ok wow ... I think some of her comments really aren’t going to help a thing. Can you stop her while she’s doing this and say ... okay maybe I’m not explaining my feelings right because I find your observations are far off in left field ???

It’s perfectly fine to challenge our T’s when we feel they just aren’t “ hearing us”

Personally the female T’s I have seen just annoy me! I prefer to see a Male T.. I like and need to know how to look at a situation through a males perspective. My T can open up a discussion with short sentences and a good useful conversation can take place.

I hopeful that by sharing here in depth it will help build up your confidence so you can be more proactive about finding and learning valuable skills to help improve your life not only for yourself but your family also.

Keep looking into yourself and work towards obtainable goals.

Do you have a goal for this week ? Or something to look forward too ?

Mine are : I see my T tomorrow and I plan to finish my grocery shopping to stock up on meat to finish out my month of planning. I want to include even a short walk daily now that it’s finally cooled off.

Maybe setting a goal would help you ?

Would this therapist read a journal if you brought it in?When I was in college I wasn't able to talk to my therapist and so I wrote all week and brought it in and he read it and then we discussed it. If he hadn't been willing to do that I would have been IP or worse; I was just way too shy to tell him verbally the things that I needed to say. By the time I moved on from him I had learned to talk in therapy although when something is really bad I still write it down (20 years later).

I think you've said that this worked for you before. Can you kind of push for it? Just tell her you don't feel able to talk yet and while you'd like to work on that as a goal in the meantime this is the best way to communicate without shutting down.

[BWould this therapist read a journal if you brought it in?[/B] no I tried that last time. She essentially said she doesn't read. She said it would take to long. So I throw it out in front of her.

Well, that doesn't sound so good.

Have you ever checked into while there are any private practices that give reduced rates? My therapist waived his entire profit for me for years although I still had to pay the agency fee. He told me when he was in private practice on his own he would charge as little as $5/appointment if someone was really in need. I don't know how you find such a place but just going to psychology today's list and calling and asking about sliding scale you might find someone who surprises you. Around here I bet there are people who do that because our community mental health
covers 6 counties and has to be stretched incredibly thin. I think faith based places are more likely to have these low rates but if that's not your thing you can just tell them up front and see what they say.

I'm pretty sure you've said no, but are there any other therapist options where you are or at the other clinic?

I'm sorry it is so hard. I ran into some really ridiculous therapists in grad school and they frustrated me away from therapy for several years. But when I went back I had a woman who was pretty good, just not experienced with bipolar and then she left and I moved on to the therapist I've seen for 14 years now. So getting over my frustration did pay off eventually. I hope it does for you

I would address the reading again. since you have a hard time talking this could be an important avenue of conversation. You are hiring her and it is your session right?
bizi

Just dropping in to catch up tonight.

I am sorry your T is not agreeing to read, especially since she does not yet know you.I, too, am wondering if there might be other options?

It will take some time to find out what your options may be. We are here for you and will continue to support you while you get this sorted out, of course!
Are you able to look into additional options?
I am thinking of you and am wishing you the best!