[Trace14]

Today we were told to write a paper on our main trauma, for next week. The class got very quiet. You could almost hear the wheels turning, feel the fear and anger. The facilitator must have also felt this tension in the group. She started talking to everyone about what made us feel what we were feeling. I thought that was nice that she was trying to get the group in a better mindset before setting us out into the world. I guess we will see how next week goes.

We are still filling out ABC sheets. Those are harder than they look like. We are also trying to determine what our stuck points are. That's mind boggling for me and I wonder if I even have stuck points. I feel so numb about everything. I've looked through two weeks of ABC sheets and it's hard to say whether there are any stuck points or not. Can you even have PTSD without stuck points?

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Trace14

Today we were told to write a paper on our main trauma, for next week. The class got very quiet. You could almost hear the wheels turning, feel the fear and anger. The facilitator must have also felt this tension in the group. She started talking to everyone about what made us feel what we were feeling. I thought that was nice that she was trying to get the group in a better mindset before setting us out into the world. I guess we will see how next week goes.

We are still filling out ABC sheets. Those are harder than they look like. We are also trying to determine what our stuck points are. That's mind boggling for me and I wonder if I even have stuck points. I feel so numb about everything. I've looked through two weeks of ABC sheets and it's hard to say whether there are any stuck points or not. Can you even have PTSD without stuck points?

you do not have to have PTSD to have stuck points. stuck points are....

negative beliefs, conflicting beliefs, negative behaviors that make you feel bad, and make you feel bad about yourself....

heres a common parents stuck point....

children are throwing a temper tantrum in a store... what does the parent say to their self.... I am a horrible parent, they are staring at me so I must be doing something wrong. what does the parent feel... angry, sad, hurt, like the child is ....all the negative emotions... what does a stuck point parent do.... negative behavior yell at the child. bribe the child, dont bother finishing the shopping which results in another trip to the store with another possible temper tantrum event.

my point even normal non PTSD people have their negative beliefs, conflicts in beliefs, and negative behaviors that make them feel bad about their self.

[reb569]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by stuck points. Can you define that a little?

If I was asked to write about my main trauma, I think I would be in shock first of all, then I would have to try to determine what that was out of the many traumas I experienced, and then figure out if I could write about it knowing that someone would read about it.

[eskielover]

Sometimes the stuck point is over analyzing & constantly replaying the WHAT & WHY without being able to go on to focus on HOW to handle the feelings & emotions that occur & put them into a healing perspective. Usually a huge hurdle/barrier to overcome.

I was really surprised when a new T I went to after I left & moved far away from my previous life suggested that I had gone through many traumas in my life ling before the final one that was VERY OBVIOUS. the rest just felt like crap that happens in life while going through it & one thing just blends into another....hard to distinguish.

This would be a difficult assignment.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by reb569

I'm not quite sure what you mean by stuck points. Can you define that a little?

If I was asked to write about my main trauma, I think I would be in shock first of all, then I would have to try to determine what that was out of the many traumas I experienced, and then figure out if I could write about it knowing that someone would read about it.

Well I'm kind of used to it from PE therapy. But I think the whole purpose is to emotionally connect to the trauma, to re-read it several days to where it's not that hard to do. You are right picking out the the one that troubles you the most is hard. I have 3 that really haunt me and they trigger others.

Stuck points are negative behaviors/thoughts/beliefs about something that keep you from moving on. Look up CPT and then find the ABC sheets, and you will see what I mean. I really didn't think much about the ABC sheets but then it started me thinking about the thought about what I was feeling. Kind of surprised me.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by eskielover

Sometimes the stuck point is over analyzing & constantly replaying the WHAT & WHY without being able to go on to focus on HOW to handle the feelings & emotions that occur & put them into a healing perspective. Usually a huge hurdle/barrier to overcome.

I was really surprised when a new T I went to after I left & moved far away from my previous life suggested that I had gone through many traumas in my life ling before the final one that was VERY OBVIOUS. the rest just felt like crap that happens in life while going through it & one thing just blends into another....hard to distinguish.

This would be a difficult assignment.

I agree. It's hard to pick out "the one" trauma when there are so many. And yes, since I've been in therapy a lot of things I thought were just normal life have turned out to be other traumas. Big pill to swallow that my PTSD started 50+ years ago and now I need to sort that out. This is going to be a long journey, unless, like one person said if you can learn to control the one main trauma then the others will follow suit. Like unclogging the toilet, then swoosh there they go

[Trace14]

I'm really surprised that there are not that many people that have tried PE and CPT therapies. Seems to be the top two with the VA, well that and DBT. I think you have to be in the right place for these therapies. Be willing to commit to the work. Because it is very hard and a lot of homework. My Pl-5 (?) scores were higher after PE therapy then before I started. But the T and I agree that might be because of all that was stirred up during that process, which is good, it needs to be dealt with.

[eskielover]

For me, it finally came together after almost 20 years of therapy. The first 13 years were useless talk therapy that even at the end when my H was in therapy with me did my T get what I was dealing with or how it was affecting me. My pdoc did a little more as there were several hospital stays where he would not release me to go back home with my H.

It wasn't until I left him & was financially able to move FAR AWAY that I finally found therapists who knew how to really work with me. I learned all the skills from DBT & learned words to express what I was really feeling rather than"ugh, just ugh". It wasn't until after the learned skills that I started researching the behaviors I had put up with for 33 years living with my H & some of his stupid behaviors after I left that was like a lightbulb coming on that I realized applied to my dad too.

It was at that point in therapy that we started discussing what my experiences had been & integrating the past into my present. My nightmares started to make perfect sense. Also the reason for Trauma that hit made sense due to finally understanding my mom's own behavior issues & I think what really brought it home was my T's comment that my mom never emotionally connected or communicated on an intimate level with me my whole life why would she be able to at the point when she was dying (she had cancer that she ignored for years until it was stage 4). Her lack of communicating was what caused the serious trauma with the home care person who manipulated her way into that position & put me into the place where I had to protect my mom & myself. The whole picture from beginning to end all fits together like a jig saw puzzle that I had never seen before then. Most of my life is a black hole of basically uneventful things but a few stand out that help make sense out of the whole thing. Even now new pieces come up every now & then, mostly when reading others experiences here & getting an "ahha" moment in memory.

I honestly think that anything that took a life time to develop is going to take the rest of the life time to handle the pieces as they come up. That is why it is important to develop the skills to handle the thoughts & emotions up front.....I definitely know that what I went through is nothing as serious or complicated as most others so I realize my process is a lot simpler overall but the foundational ground work would be very similar I would think.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by eskielover

For me, it finally came together after almost 20 years of therapy. The first 13 years were useless talk therapy that even at the end when my H was in therapy with me did my T get what I was dealing with or how it was affecting me. My pdoc did a little more as there were several hospital stays where he would not release me to go back home with my H.

It wasn't until I left him & was financially able to move FAR AWAY that I finally found therapists who knew how to really work with me. I learned all the skills from DBT & learned words to express what I was really feeling rather than"ugh, just ugh". It wasn't until after the learned skills that I started researching the behaviors I had put up with for 33 years living with my H & some of his stupid behaviors after I left that was like a lightbulb coming on that I realized applied to my dad too.

It was at that point in therapy that we started discussing what my experiences had been & integrating the past into my present. My nightmares started to make perfect sense. Also the reason for Trauma that hit made sense due to finally understanding my mom's own behavior issues & I think what really brought it home was my T's comment that my mom never emotionally connected or communicated on an intimate level with me my whole life why would she be able to at the point when she was dying (she had cancer that she ignored for years until it was stage 4). Her lack of communicating was what caused the serious trauma with the home care person who manipulated her way into that position & put me into the place where I had to protect my mom & myself. The whole picture from beginning to end all fits together like a jig saw puzzle that I had never seen before then. Most of my life is a black hole of basically uneventful things but a few stand out that help make sense out of the whole thing. Even now new pieces come up every now & then, mostly when reading others experiences here & getting an "ahha" moment in memory.

I honestly think that anything that took a life time to develop is going to take the rest of the life time to handle the pieces as they come up. That is why it is important to develop the skills to handle the thoughts & emotions up front.....I definitely know that what I went through is nothing as serious or complicated as most others so I realize my process is a lot simpler overall but the foundational ground work would be very similar I would think.

Oh I am so hoping a 13 yrs. to a lifetime of therapy is not my situation. I think 3.5 years is bad enough. Of course when I started I thought it was all about finding dad after his suicide. Only one thing to get help with, that shouldn't take that long. Right? But then all this other stuff came up and no matter how hard I tried to stuff it back in the drawer it was impossible to get them to a place where they were they were not haunting me.
Being kind of new to therapy, it's hard to grasp the concepts sometimes. Plus I get into things pretty far before I realize a T is not working for me. I guess that comes with the experience. Some T's even make it worse. I'm trying to get the Psychiatrist off my list but to do that I will have to stop taking the meds and that will take some tapering off to do.
I will be glad when I get to the same level as you. Glad you got there.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Trace14

Oh I am so hoping a 13 yrs. to a lifetime of therapy is not my situation. I think 3.5 years is bad enough. Of course when I started I thought it was all about finding dad after his suicide. Only one thing to get help with, that shouldn't take that long. Right? But then all this other stuff came up and no matter how hard I tried to stuff it back in the drawer it was impossible to get them to a place where they were they were not haunting me.
Being kind of new to therapy, it's hard to grasp the concepts sometimes. Plus I get into things pretty far before I realize a T is not working for me. I guess that comes with the experience. Some T's even make it worse. I'm trying to get the Psychiatrist off my list but to do that I will have to stop taking the meds and that will take some tapering off to do.
I will be glad when I get to the same level as you. Glad you got there.

here is a link that might help in explaining what stuck points are in reference to CPT

https://cpt.musc.edu/resource_info/s...t_are_they.pdf

and here is the website the treatment provider that taught the CPT skills used when I went through CPT

https://cpt.musc.edu/resources

[eskielover]

I have been down to once a month therapy appointments for the last 2 years & that has been just to go over things I have come to realize but mostly to have her help me handle the stressful things that have hit me with pain specialist issues, issues that I still have from my x-H financial irresponsibility & just everyday crap that hits at times just to make sure I have someone to remind me of the skills I learned & how to apply them when I struggle & just to talk things over that I don't want to burden my friends with & who I know I can get unbiased thoughts from....sort of like monthly maintenance. She quit working at the facility & has opened her own practice so I have to get myself set back up going to her after my last appointment in June.

I never imagined I would get to this point with how bad I felt about life before I moved but even after I was struggling with depersonalization when stressful things hit & when fall came....just the feel of the weather change would take me back to the things that happened. I'm still sensitive to that even in my new location across the country but it no longer affects me the way it did....time passing has helped me with that & new good & stable experiences are replacing the old after finally processing what happened though it seems like every traumatic event in my life has happened in the fall.

I honestly had no idea what a good T was like until I ended up with the last 2 & especially this last one. Now I would know what to look for. I knew the talk therapy FELT useless but had no idea why it wasn't working..why would they do talk therapy if it wasn't meant to help so I just kept on. I went through about 5 T's those first 13 years & they were all the same....just sit there & listen to me talk about whatever did or didn't (as in silence) come up. I lost count of the number of hospitalizations I had during those years mostly from suicide attempts or a pdoc wanting to do a med change & knowing it wasn't safe to do outside the hospital because of my horrible side effect problems that usually required medical attention. They were all so sure during those years that I was just over reacting to the loss of my computer engineering career that no one including me looked beyond that

The bad side effects caused me to go with natural aids & I was lucky that the pdoc in calif was into research & alternative treatments when he realized how bad my reactions were to normal psych meds so nothing that would wipe me out in my new living alone in the country on my farm away from any close neighbors. Lots of hot showers for my anxiety attacks but it worked & helped.

The best help has also been to have wonderful friends who I trust as a wonderful support network. Definitely something I never had while living in Los Angeles. Small town living where I was finally able to learn to connect with people & find people I could trust has helped in its own way as much as therapy. I realized what an important part of life that really is too. It's almost like starting life completely over again when I moved here being able to figure out who I really am. Would have been nice to have not gone through all that to get to this point but thankful I'm here no matter what.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by eskielover

I have been down to once a month therapy appointments for the last 2 years & that has been just to go over things I have come to realize but mostly to have her help me handle the stressful things that have hit me with pain specialist issues, issues that I still have from my x-H financial irresponsibility & just everyday crap that hits at times just to make sure I have someone to remind me of the skills I learned & how to apply them when I struggle & just to talk things over that I don't want to burden my friends with & who I know I can get unbiased thoughts from....sort of like monthly maintenance. She quit working at the facility & has opened her own practice so I have to get myself set back up going to her after my last appointment in June.

I never imagined I would get to this point with how bad I felt about life before I moved but even after I was struggling with depersonalization when stressful things hit & when fall came....just the feel of the weather change would take me back to the things that happened. I'm still sensitive to that even in my new location across the country but it no longer affects me the way it did....time passing has helped me with that & new good & stable experiences are replacing the old after finally processing what happened though it seems like every traumatic event in my life has happened in the fall.

I honestly had no idea what a good T was like until I ended up with the last 2 & especially this last one. Now I would know what to look for. I knew the talk therapy FELT useless but had no idea why it wasn't working..why would they do talk therapy if it wasn't meant to help so I just kept on. I went through about 5 T's those first 13 years & they were all the same....just sit there & listen to me talk about whatever did or didn't (as in silence) come up. I lost count of the number of hospitalizations I had during those years mostly from suicide attempts or a pdoc wanting to do a med change & knowing it wasn't safe to do outside the hospital because of my horrible side effect problems that usually required medical attention. They were all so sure during those years that I was just over reacting to the loss of my computer engineering career that no one including me looked beyond that

The bad side effects caused me to go with natural aids & I was lucky that the pdoc in calif was into research & alternative treatments when he realized how bad my reactions were to normal psych meds so nothing that would wipe me out in my new living alone in the country on my farm away from any close neighbors. Lots of hot showers for my anxiety attacks but it worked & helped.

The best help has also been to have wonderful friends who I trust as a wonderful support network. Definitely something I never had while living in Los Angeles. Small town living where I was finally able to learn to connect with people & find people I could trust has helped in its own way as much as therapy. I realized what an important part of life that really is too. It's almost like starting life completely over again when I moved here being able to figure out who I really am. Would have been nice to have not gone through all that to get to this point but thankful I'm here no matter what.

Thanks for sharing that. It's good to hear that there is hope. It's so easy to lose sight of that when you are surrounded with negative emotions, and people who don't know how to help you. Like being traumatized all over again.

[reb569]

Stuck points are negative behaviors/thoughts/beliefs about something that keep you from moving on. Look up CPT and then find the ABC sheets, and you will see what I mean. I really didn't think much about the ABC sheets but then it started me thinking about the thought about what I was feeling. Kind of surprised me.

Thanks for the explanation. I thought that might be what it meant but wasn't quite sure. I have a lot of "stuck points" I think.

[reb569]

Sometimes the stuck point is over analyzing & constantly replaying the WHAT & WHY without being able to go on to focus on HOW to handle the feelings & emotions that occur & put them into a healing perspective. Usually a huge hurdle/barrier to overcome.

I do this all the time. It sucks the energy and any glimmer of joy right out of you.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by reb569

Thanks for the explanation. I thought that might be what it meant but wasn't quite sure. I have a lot of "stuck points" I think.

Now the questions is..what to do with them? I guess that's on down the road.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by reb569

I do this all the time. It sucks the energy and any glimmer of joy right out of you.

Yes, it would seem to be a big obstacle for moving forward. I don't think my stuck points are on the surface and easy to get to. That I may have to dissect the memory to see where one might be. Going to work on that and the written account of the trauma starting Monday. Don't want to ruin the weekend thinking about that stuff. Since I've been out of PE therapy I've reverted back to the emotionally numb person again, in regards to the memories.

[kenziemae312]

What do you do when you have PTSD, have had it almost 19 years and never received any help or treatment, you need therapy but the therapist who was supposed to help you, who specializes in trauma, won't take you as a patient because they don't think you're ready? I have a lot of questions, I feel like I have emotionally regressed back to when it first happened. I'm terribly stressed with the day to day of living and caring for my kids. But focusing on them keeps me from focusing on the pain. Is it selfish to want to be ? Is it selfish to not want to hurt? Or to not live in fear? Thx for reading.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by kenziemae312

What do you do when you have PTSD, have had it almost 19 years and never received any help or treatment, you need therapy but the therapist who was supposed to help you, who specializes in trauma, won't take you as a patient because they don't think you're ready? I have a lot of questions, I feel like I have emotionally regressed back to when it first happened. I'm terribly stressed with the day to day of living and caring for my kids. But focusing on them keeps me from focusing on the pain. Is it selfish to want to be ? Is it selfish to not want to hurt? Or to not live in fear? Thx for reading.

I had the same reaction from a therapist, actually my first one and I felt like you. Hurt, confused, and just didn't understand what the "not ready" meant. I mean I made the appointment and I was there, what else was I suppose to do?
What I figured out was that "not ready" meant not ready to commit to the work it was going to take. To do everything the therapist says. I understand that more now because it is a lot of work and a lot of trying different things. Also it means addressing the trauma, talking about it a lot. Even though it's painful, it has to be done or else you will remain stuck where you are. Does this make sense?
In a way it's good that she told you that. Because if you are not ready to commit and work through the traumas, you will be wasting your money going to therapy. But you may want to look for another therapist too, someone you are more comfortable with.
No you are not being selfish at all, getting help is actually getting peace for you and your family. When mom is feeling better everyone benefits. Plus you are showing that it's okay to ask for help and to talk things out. Something kids need to see and understand themselves. Hope this helps and that you find the right T for you.

[eskielover]

It would be nice it THEY who say "not ready" would be the ones who define their meaning rather than letting you guess at what they mean or interpret it your own way.

It totally makes sense as to it being related to the committment to the work. Mant times we think the T will FIX US but in reality they can only guide us through the WORK WE MUST DO ourselves.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by eskielover

It would be nice it THEY who say "not ready" would be the ones who define their meaning rather than letting you guess at what they mean or interpret it your own way.

It totally makes sense as to it being related to the committment to the work. Mant times we think the T will FIX US but in reality they can only guide us through the WORK WE MUST DO ourselves.

So true, even when I asked what they meant they really didn't explain it well. But now I understand it better because I had no idea there was so much work that I had to do. That they can only give us the tools to heal ourselves. But even then that part can be lacking.
I know I had a different opinion of counseling when I first started. I thought it would be caring people helping me dig into problems then learning how to work through them. My latent traumas have only been found from my discovery, once I knew what trauma was. You really have to educate yourself on so many things like CEN, CPTSD, PTSD, and other mental health issues so you can talk to a therapist and ask questions. They are not going to rescue you like on tv. Also get educated on the medications. There's just so much a client has to do as well as dealing with all this crap, it's overwhelming to say the least.

[kenziemae312]

It would be wonderful to find one that would take me as a client, instead of telling me, "Good luck"... Smdh it hurts. I don't know where to turn now as far as therapy is concerned. My life is beyond chaotic right now, not including dealing w/daily triggers and mild anxiety to full blown panic attacks. And my h of 13 yrs doesn't want to listen and says I should get over it. So, I seek help to "get over it" and am turned away. Anyway, good night and thank you so much for the support and kind words.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by kenziemae312

It would be wonderful to find one that would take me as a client, instead of telling me, "Good luck"... Smdh it hurts. I don't know where to turn now as far as therapy is concerned. My life is beyond chaotic right now, not including dealing w/daily triggers and mild anxiety to full blown panic attacks. And my h of 13 yrs doesn't want to listen and says I should get over it. So, I seek help to "get over it" and am turned away. Anyway, good night and thank you so much for the support and kind words.

Keep looking for the right T. I didn't go back to that one that told me I wasn't ready. I felt like if I wasn't ready tell me what I need to do to get ready but she didn't want to do that. So moved to the next one and finally found a good one , then my insurance ran out and I had to start going to the VA. I have had one good T there, they switch you around from group to group and you never really get comfortable with anyone in a 12 week period. But don't give up, you deserve to feel better. Are there other trauma counselors around in your area? Loved ones have a hard time understanding what we are going through, it's not something they can see and help you fix. And at times we act normal until we are triggered again. So I understand them not getting what we are going through. Maybe if you find the right T he could come to a session with you and maybe the T could explain it to him.

[kenziemae312]

Thank you, I'll keep trying I guess. G'nite

[Trace14]

Still struggling with stuck points. I wish the therapist would just say how to word them and not gives the hoards of information on what they can't be. It's so confusing and overwhelming. Right now I can't say that this CPT therapy is beneficial. Our group has dropped to about half the size it was. The three of us left are struggling to make sense of this and trying to stick it out. But I'm really not one to continue with something if there's no benefit to it. So far the PE therapy was the most beneficial, it was the hardest and emotional connected therapy. Which is what I needed. Too bad there's not therapy that gets to the core of the issues. I guess this is the backwards peeling the onion example. But when people get so frustrated with trying they often lose hope.

[Fuzzybear]

(((((((( Trace ))))))))