Trying to understand and let go.

Unfortunately, you are hurting. You are not safe from the self-inflicted beatings. Your circumstances are extremely complex. I hope you find a way to forgive yourself.

Good luck.

And you capture the problem right there. I could never hate anyone as much as I hate myself.

There are times where I catch myself thinking if someone is going to be so desperately pathetic asI was then I deserved everything that was thrown at me. Of course I would never say that to/ about someone else.

I just can't figure out why I am so hard myself. I can't even really pinpoint anything that I really hate about myself. I just do.

Of course I know all this on a logical level but it's like my emotions are sitting there with their fingers in their ears screaming "nope!"

I am going through something that is not too dissimilar to your situation. The person who walked away was emotionally unstable, sociopath, probably having NPD and I was emotionally abused...I am quoting my post here. I got a hearing here in his forum and some good advice...but at the end it is a long lonely journey. I would love to hear from you and share...you can send me a PM if you want... It is all so confusing and hurting for me and I care about what you feel.
QUOTE
I have gone through a very painful break up with my ex. After about three years of togetherness when we were supposed to get together when he just disappeared. Changed jobs and broke contact.I was emotionally abused by him for a long time. I do not wish to contact my ex nor do I wish to start the relationship but I do not seem able to move on. I have plans for the future, yet I cannot stop obsessing about him, visiting his company website and sneaking at him in social media , I keep thinking of the unhappy and frankly disrespectful aspects of this highly volatile relationship and how I allowed him to use and throw me aside. Am I am suffering from a co-dependency syndrome? Any thoughts? The person fits the bill of a narcissist and a sociopath but I think the issue is not him but me. I cannot afford therapy at the moment.

I just wanted to let you know that I have recently experienced the same with my ex-girlfriend. I wanted to write more but the thought of what I can't let go of and how I blame myself for everything is still quite raw. I know that both of us can do it. Thank you for posting. Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone

The F*** do I do this to myself?

Was looking through our old skype convos. Totally crying like a little B**** right now.

It was a good reminder of why we don't speak anymore though. I fear I was starting to remember things with slightly rose tinted glasses.

It was also rather amusing to watch again how his work friends became acquaintances one he was promoted. Even though he was only promoted because the store was closing.

I feel for those 'friends' he must have been an absolute terror to deal with during those times.

You have a void to fill, or otherwise compensate for.

I'm working on it lol

Maybe once I'm back in therapy.

I feel like a total idiot still being stuck on this but I'm hoping if I can get it out I can work it out lol

This is a bit me thinking out loud any advice is welcome but please don't feel you need to comment. I'm sure you're all sick of me.

I think maybe part of my problems with letting go is that I walked away when things were 'good' when he was being nice. I keep thinking (despite the slip ups) that maybe he had really changed and now I've ruined everything.

Taken from our last conversation.

Forgiveness. Was I in the wrong because I didn't/couldn't/ didn't want to forgive him even when he admitted he was wrong? Is that how forgiveness works? Does admitting a wrong automatically make it right?

He certainly didn't give me that benefit for my own wrong doings.

Admitting he was wrong doesn't change all the pain I felt. It didn't magically uncry the tears or undo the self doubt he had instilled in me.

Was I playing the victim? I guess I was/am but he admits to having done horrible things to me. Doesn't that make me a victim? And I have acknowledged more than once that it was my own damn fault for letting him get away with it. In the same vein as my forgiving him does my acknowledgement temper my playing victim?

Am I using him to hide my other issues? Is he just an excuse to keep playing crazy?

I never once denied that I had issues. Nor did I ever blame him in context of anything he hadn't done. My issues probably did result in me being more reactive than the average person though.

It certainly feels like he took me and my issues and exacerbated them.

I walked into that relationship thinking I had no self esteem. He proved me wrong. I obviously had something to lose.

This "person?" used and abused you before leaving. You were his commodity. Its useful life had been extracted. Your intelligence allowed you to see the red flags early on. Your neediness allowed the purported relationship to continue. Now you are grieving and commiserating about the hit to your self-esteem.

For me the real issue is why you hate yourself? You self-loathed before this critter made the scene. You now would not be so exasperated with yourself if you had made your well-being the top priority before risking being hurt by one you knew was fully capable of leaving you a bloody mess.

May you learn to love and cherish who you are.

I wish you well.

Beautifully said, glok....you could have been speaking to me, as well. Thank you.

I know these things logically. I can think them in my head. Emotionally though it's a constant battle. I can go weeks where I find I'm coping only for something small to rile up my emotions and suddenly I'm crying myself to sleep again. I hadn't cried in close to 7 years before I met him.

I can't mesh the two personalities he displayed together. I realize part of what I saw from him was probably a deliberate facade on his part but I can't make sense of it and it's creating a lot of dissonance. (Bad people do bad things. He can't be nice if he's doing bad things.)

I understand he is broken just as much if not more than me. He is not necessarily a bad person. (If he's not a bad person then you must be. He only did those things because you made him. You deserved it.)

I know why I have these feelings and doubts. It's years of conditioning from my parents. (Even your own parents don't love you. The two people in the world guaranteed to love you and they despise you. Worthless.)

I just don't know how to fix it and it's such an uphill battle that it seems like sometimes it would be easier to simply give in. Lay down and accept the fact that I'm worthless and that my only purpose in life is to be someone's emotional punching bag. (Keep playing the victim you mean. It's easier that way. Don't have to take responsibility for yourself. You can just hide away and tell yourself it's all their fault.)

I truly hope your powerful mind will come to recognize you have tremendous value.

Bete...I could have written much of what you wrote, and after leaving an NPD, I do know how you feel.
(Bad people do bad things. He can't be nice if he's doing bad things.)
There is a LOT about him that was nice...but he only accessed that part of him when he wanted/needed something...a lot like a child. If I look at it that way, it's easier to understand, and much more difficult to resent. NPD's are, in many way's like children who never grew up emotionally, because their sense of self was so completely muted by the time they were about 5, that is where they got stuck. Therefore, when he acted like a child (sweet, giving, funny, admiring) he did so because of a need/want. If I gave him what he wanted, he was satisfied, his sense of self intact.
(If he's not a bad person then you must be. He only did those things because you made him. You deserved it.)
He's not a bad person, but neither are you. He has a disorder and you did not 'make him'...he was made before you ever met him. You don't deserve how he treated you, but he didn't deserve how he was treated whilst growing up, either. Again, when he's angry because he hasn't gotten his way, he's returned to 5 year old status...he feels hurt, lost, unloved, abandoned. These are NOT good feelings for him because it beats against the very fear he lives with everyday--that he'll be 'found out'...that he's really NOT all that he is sure he is. It's not about imagining who he wants to be. It's about KNOWING who he is, and then having someone rip down that curtain and discovering what he's made himself believe is wrong, that HE is worthless, pointless, unremarkable, and the worst of adjectives, dismissable. I admit, this is an over-simplification...but, luckily for you, I don't want to delve to deeply into waters unnecessary to make you grasp what he was. You were with him long enough, and he (like many N's) TOLD you much of what he was, and probably without really understanding why he did.
The narcissistic 'rage' can happen if he's refused, or if he gets bored, (boredom is a killer because it gives him too much time to think..and soul-searching is not anything he wants a part of), bored with you, or a situation, or if you inadvertantly critisize him (and a criticism can be as simple as a question--as was said recently--because their feelings of worth are so fragile, anything can seem an insult..even things you've no thought could be) --all result in the 5 year old tantrum we're all familiar with. You didn't cause it. His childhood--for the most part--caused it.
(Even your own parents don't love you. The two people in the world guaranteed to love you and they despise you. Worthless.)
My father was so rarely allowed in the picture because my mother was a Narcissist... I often think I was trained to find one of my very own! lol Needless to say, I felt worthless as well. It took a long time to realize that fallacy, yet it all came back with my ex. I'm not starting at square one, although sometimes it feels like it. You aren't either. You're aware of what was going on with him, even as your mind tries to hurt you with the trickery you've felt years before. You ARE worthwhile. Believe THAT, because that is the truth.
(Keep playing the victim you mean. It's easier that way. Don't have to take responsibility for yourself. You can just hide away and tell yourself it's all their fault.)
You're not playing a victim...you were a victim. And being a victim is NEVER easy. Remember, human nature encourages us to find the 'easy button' in most things regarding our lives--if being a victim were easy, we'd all be doing it. And hiding, after the hurt you have experienced is absolutely natural...it's a comfort served a bit cold, but it helps...just not in the long term. And if you were condemning yourself to only hiding, you wouldn't be putting yourself out there, asking questions (even the hard ones that semi-attack you, as well). You know you don't want to do that...you want help understanding what happened, and you want to move on...
I too hadn't cried like I did for years before I broke up with my ex...and that it was my decision made no difference in the hurt. Sometimes the damaging thoughts 'what if?' 'why couldn't?' sneak into my mind and I feel the drag again...but it's getting easier to push them aside. And actually, understanding more of the reasons for why he was who he was, helps. It eases the resentment, the anger, and even the frustration.
It's gradual...but you'll get there. Promise.

Sorry if the reply was long!!

Sometimes it really feels like I'm being held hostage by my own emotions. No matter how much I tell myself these things and believe in them from a sensible point of view I can't shake the feeling the negatives are true.

I hate the thought of him having narcissism to be honest. I don't want him to have hurt that badly (although part of me is screaming for vengeance now and wants to attack what ever weakness of his I could find.) I don't want to think that he may never really be happy.

I don't even know that he really had a terrible childhood. He never really mentioned anything about it. Although his hatred of his father and substance abuse issues would imply a level of issue.

Part of it is that I don't even know if he is NPD. With nothing official I keep feeling like maybe I've been projecting. Maybe I've slanted these incidents to back up my supposition.

And I can count times when he really did seem like a 'normal' person, there was no grandiosity, no rage, no obvious fakery.

Another part is feeling like I've abandoned him. I know what it's like to hurt and I feel like I should have been strong enough to help him or at least survive with him.

I was reading this article by Vaknin earlier (yes, I know lol) and it made sense of something that I've been struggling with.

In our last argument he kept telling me to leave, it was my choice etc I thought he was just trying to take the high road but maybe he was just trying to avoid abandonment. By baiting me he was pushing me away rather than me leaving him.

I never wanted to hurt him. I never mean to hurt anyone and yet I do.

I also feel like I've just outed myself as codependent.

Did you grow up with a narcissist parent? Some of the things you write just remind me so much of how I have felt ending recent friendships with narcissists.

This seems to be a very common feeling among people who have grown up with a narcissist or had one as a partner. I know that I often struggle with feeling like I am selfish because I am not being compliant with someone else's desires. I start to worry that I am the one who is a narcissist.

That's what they want us to think. The only way I've found around it is to just blindly trust myself. Remember what you figured out when you were being rational (this relationship is not healthy, he is taking advantage). Trust that you were right when your brain wasn't clouded with emotion.

I find it can be helpful in those moments to make a list of all the things that weren't normal -- like you did in your first post.

This is *CLASSIC* narcissist behavior. As soon as they sense that you may leave, they flip it around. They twist it so that they are the ones dumping you or pushing you away.

I can't tell you how many times I have had this done to me and how many times it has left me wanting to chase them. It's like some switch gets flipped in my brain and no matter how much effort I have made to detach myself from the relationship, their rejection of me or my perception that I've displeased them makes me go running right back in for more.

I have a friend who has a similar problem and we both check each other. I'll say "I'm thinking of calling so and so" and she'll remind me that I need to resist the urge. I do the same for her. Sort of like an accountability partner.

I'm sorry you are going through this. Letting go of a person like this is very, very hard. Time helps, but it's so easy to start it all up again by contacting them six months afterwards, when the bad stuff is a distant memory and you just want to know how they are doing. I hope you stay strong through this hard time.

Still over thinking things. lol

It's funny how so many things came together to finally give me the strength to walk away. The jealousy and the distrust but also a sudden feeling of being smothered.

We hadn't spoken in some time before I sent my first goodbye message and during that time I had found freedom. I had found the time to do things I enjoyed. Then when he came back in full force it was horrible. Suddenly I was once more spending every free minute with him, doing what he wanted. It was too fast this time.

No matter how many times I said I felt he was too full on, too fake he insisted this was the real him and I had to get used to it. (We hadn't spoken in months previously until he wanted something.) He ignored all the warning signs.

And this is where I get confused. He had shown exceptional skill and patience in suckering me in the first time. He lacked all finesse the second time.

He even tried to tell me that the whole reason he broke up with me was because it hurt him too much that he couldn't be with me to comfort me like he wanted to. This is a man who previously had made no attempt to comfort me. Had gone out of his way to shut me down and tell me to suck it up when I was upset now I was supposed to accept that he was hurt because he couldn't hug me?

Why did he think I would believe such a blatant lie? Especially when many of our arguments had been over his not attending to me emotionally.

Was it some last ditch attempt to keep his supply? Simply seeing how far he could push? Did he simply think I was that stupid?

Our last argument was a total mess. He was gaslighting me in plain view. I mean I could have just scrolled up a little to quote the thing he was currently denying.

Why would he 'lose' it so quickly? Had he just given up trying? What purpose did making even that pathetic attempt at persuasion serve? Just a token attempt to keep what was usually a fairly reliable supply?

Was he always this obvious and I was just finally aware?

I know he had at times blatantly admitted to screwing with me but when actually manipulating me he was generally much smarter about it. And he is a smart man (except for that time I accused him of being deliberately obtuse and he got mad at me for calling him fat. ) if he wanted to be manipulative he had the smarts to hide it better.

Gah, I can't tell which parts were him being mean or me being pathetic.

Hello again, BeteNoire. This person is poison with a keyboard. You continue to ruminate to allocate the greater blame for how you now feel. Pointing your finger at him will not stop the merciless self-deprecation you engage in.

Until you learn to forgive yourself for being human, you will be the punching bag you somehow relish being.

I wish you well.

Take care....

Unfortunately at this moment I think I need anything to cling to to stop me writing him that letter begging forgiveness. I keep thinking even fake affection is better than none.

I want (need) to understand what happened and why. I hate when things don't make sense. I like labels and boxes and order so I dissect and dissect hoping things will make more sense. Most times they never do.

Lazy. I can see that. It worked once (More than once. I doubt I was the first. Actually I'm sure I met the one previous to me. Wish I could find her.) it should work again. *sigh*

Sometimes it feels like it was easier being oblivious and abused (?). It hurts to realize I meant nothing to someone that I cared (care) for so much.

Try to remember, Bete..it's an ongoing process. I have days like that too...I go to sleep in tears, I wake up missing, and wishing but darlin...every day is a step further away...and I need that.

It's ok to 'study' what happened, and it helps. Just don't bury yourself in it (and that's easy to do, trust me) because it's almost like being with him again as each question is answered. You need to remember you're NOT with him...and if there could have been a choice, it WOULD have been YOUR choice, not his. Because, he was toxic, and no matter how we can rationalize and understand what made him what he is, it doesn't ever and can't ever change that he is what he is.

And please, don't think of asking his forgiveness. Ask forgiveness from yourself, of yourself. I had to. Try not to rush the healing. It only frustrates you. You'll be well in time, I promise. I'm so much better than I was, and I do understand what happened. In away, it angers me when I think back to some of the things that happened...but not because I didn't see them. In fact, by understanding how he was able to do what he did, it makes it easier to forgive myself for not seeing it when it was happening.

And forgiveness is essential to get thru this. Forgive yourself first....so you can eventually, forgive him.

Take care...