[MsLady]

My 3yr old is closing off. She's become avoidant, protective of dad, and up and down with me. I don't know how to help her though this. She's very young.

All she knows is that covid19 has shut everything down. Mom and dad are stressed. Dad is crying and leaning on her for emotional support. Mom is reacting to dad.. and has since started acting out.

Everything changed between her and I when I finally opened the front door one day, leaned into dad, and told him to get out!!.. and in front of the girls. At the time, he was feeding "stories" into their heads about me. I repeatedly asked him to stop, as I was feeding the little one. I covered my ears .. but he wasn't interested in me at all. He wanted to speak to our daughter and his sister through the wall. All this because I brought up a concern I had against him. I scared my girls, though. Dad immediately shouted for me to get my hands off him. It's "physical abuse"! That's when I learned about Reactive Abuse. That means nothing to a 3yr old. She saw "mom pushing dad."

That's when she started telling dad she loves him. Before that day, she refused. She told me she loved me in "excess" but purposely avoided telling dad. Maybe she sensed my sadness. The next day she announced that she "loves dad, again!" and was very happy about it.

Dad asked me what I thought caused her sudden change to be more affectionate towards him. I suspected he knew because that's when the name calling increased for a while, looking to her for her reaction. (It has since decreased due to his most recent attempts to turn things around.)

I feel like I've lost that special bond we always had because she's feeling sorry for dad. I'm trying to keep her out of these scenarios but it hasn't always been easy. I tell her "mom and dad are working through a problem, together. Everything will be ok and we both love them very much."

She tells me she has "secrets", and I believe it's because a book we read a lot talks about secrets vs. surprises.. and so now she's being oppositional about it because she's confused.

She's a lovely little girl. This breaks my heart. She still tells me she loves me, wants to spend 1-to-1 time with me, and wants me to cuddle with her.. but if there's anything going on between dad and I, she stands by his side and bottles up against me. I feel like the problem. I don't yell. I try to limit emotional conversations to texts and emails.. but she senses things.

I don't know what to tell her. I wish I could get into her head.

[divine1966]

I don’t believe you should be telling 3 and 1 year olds that mom and dad have problems. They are too young for this information. It seems like both you and your partner involve children into your conflicts, it’s not recommended. Their extreme attachments to one parent and then switching to another is them seeking immediate comfort and trying to calm their anxiety.

Your daughter behaves like many children who grow up in volatile and abusive households. I don’t think you can get into her head and make her change her mind or behavior, kids learn by observing, their behavior is a product of their environment, currently their environment is unhealthy. If you want healthier behavior, kids need to be in a healthier environment.

They are too young to learn by what you are telling them. It doesn’t work that way.

Could you see a therapist yourself? Soon your older daughter will need therapy as well. Your kids are being traumatized

[sarahsweets]

Hey @MsLady: Your husband should not be leaning on or relying on your daughter.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I don’t believe you should be telling 3 and 1 year olds that mom and dad have problems. They are too young for this information.

I haven't said anything to my 1yr old. My 3yr old senses something, even though we're not outwardly arguing at the moment. My intent is to reassure her that everything will be ok and that we're working together to fix something we don't agree on. I don't go into any details and I talk with her in a positive tone. I think it's worse I say nothing at all. She knows "something" is up and I want her to feel like we are working together.. that's my angle, anyway.

seems like both you and your partner involve children into your conflicts, it’s not recommended. Their extreme attachments to one parent and then switching to another is them seeking immediate comfort and trying to calm their anxiety.

I'm not trying to but she's been affected so I'll keep this in mind. I don't want to inadvertently push her away from me and maybe I am.

Your daughter behaves like many children who grow up in volatile and abusive households. I don’t think you can get into her head and make her change her mind or behavior, kids learn by observing, their behavior is a product of their environment, currently their environment is unhealthy. If you want healthier behavior, kids need to be in a healthier environment.

We've definitely had issues come up but we are not creating a volatile environment. Most of our heated conversations take place via text. Prior to covid19, we were really busy parents so we didn't have much opportunity to argue. It hasn't been great but we both put a lot of work into the Attachment Parenting model.. spend a lot of time reading books together, building lego, painting rocks.. going out. I do think she's pushing back these days, yes. Volatile? No.

Could you see a therapist yourself? Soon your older daughter will need therapy as well. Your kids are being traumatized

Traumatized? No. There's been some tension lately, yes. As I've said, we've had our slip-ups but most of it is discussed via text. I come here to vent a lot. There's uncertainties for her, for sure.

I have thought about counseling for myself but I'm not really sure what to address. Maybe I can focus on parenting during a time of stress?

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

Hey @MsLady: Your husband should not be leaning on or relying on your daughter.

Ya.. I mentioned to him about Emotional Parentification .. he read the article I sent.. and we're now both trying to be more mindful of this.

My post is really about what's already taken place we can't take back. I've noticed more of a push back than dad because I've always had a solid and good rapport with her. Her preschool teacher commented about this, as well. I found she listened to me quite well but often struggled with dad. Now I'm starting to get more of this same resistance. It's like she views me differently.

I want to repair what we had. She's still a great little girl.. is good with her little sister.. and takes to follow through quite well. But, I know things haven't been easy for her, either.

[Have Hope]

If you sought counseling, perhaps you could address parenting with a partner who is a compulsive liar and who is impacting your relationship with your children. I agree that children should not be placed in the middle of conflict by being leaned on emotionally by one partner. And no acts of violence or yelling should be allowed in front of children, ie, pushing your partner out the door. And what kind of "stories" is he feeding to the children about you? Is he saying negative and mean things that would turn your children against you?

[Open Eyes]

I find what you have shared about your relationship with your husband and both your behaviors in front of her extremely triggering. You are actually both triangulating with this very innocent BABY. She is experiencing cognitive disonance and her little brain simply doesn't have the ability to comprehend what she is witnessing. The early years of child development is CRUCIAL and you and your husband are genuinely creating more damage than you realize and it's so unfair to this innocent little baby that needs to feel SAFE while her little brain is growing and developing. And neither of you are recognizing how HUGE you both are to her either, they are SO LITTLE and powerless at this age and you are BOTH traumatizing her. She is suddenly going non verbal? Very bad sign because she is withdrawing and disassociating. This is a baby who is incapable of taking any part in your ongoing problems with your husband and it's totally irresponsible and abusive to TRIANGULATE a little BABY like this.

[divine1966]

I was rather shocked that you don’t think what’s happening in your home is traumatizing for a young child. Anyone with any kind of training in the area of child development/child psychology, will tell you what’s happening in your house is traumatizing for your children. I can ensure you.

It would be traumatizing for an adult, let alone a child that young.

I am also surprised that you don’t think you have anything to discuss with a therapist. You can simply start by describing yours and your children’s life the you described to us, current life and events from the past etc Good therapist will find things for you to work on with information provided

At this point I’d probably stop worrying about what your partner he does in his therapy and focus on the needs of yourself and your kids and their rights to live a peaceful life. Please do seek help for yourself and your kids

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

You are actually both triangulating with this very innocent BABY. She is experiencing cognitive disonance

Do you think me saying "we" (dad and I) are working through things together as a means to reassure her everything is going to be ok.. as triangulation? That's not my understanding of it.

And neither of you are recognizing how HUGE you both are to her either,

I disagree. It's why we've adopted the Attachment Parenting model since the start. I've addressed the Emotional Parentification already so he's aware about what he's doing.. and since then, it has stopped. I managed to convince him to seek counseling to address a lot of these issues. The list goes on. I'm not a backseat mom. I'm just unable to leave this relationship right now and am trying to be hopeful things will improve with the counseling.

She is suddenly going non verbal? Very bad sign because she is withdrawing and disassociating.

No. She's definitely not going non-verbal. We are still very much close with her but I've noticed a pull back I want to address asap.

I think Have Hope has the right idea. I need professional support to help me deal with this as a partner and mother. Of course I'm affected. My 3yr ols is, as well. She's in the early stages.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I was rather shocked that you don’t think what’s happening in your home is traumatizing for a young child. Anyone with any kind of training in the area of child development/child psychology, will tell you what’s happening in your house is traumatizing for your children. I can ensure you.

She's affected.. not traumatized. Remember, a lot of these behaviours are behind the scenes.. the gaslighting, compulsive lying, campaign smearing... etc. We've had arguments but it doesn't happen on a day to day basis.. or even weekly. Most conversations have taken place via text/email so we're not actively scaring our kids. It hasn't been perfect OF COURSE.. and we've talked about being more mindful about what we say in front of our kids. I'm also working on not reacting to his tactics. This post is how to repair damage that's already taken place.

would be traumatizing for an adult, let alone a child that young.

Yes because I'm far more aware of what's been happening behind the scenes.

I am also surprised that you don’t think you have anything to discuss with a therapist. You can simply start by describing yours and your children’s life the you described to us, current life and events from the past etc Good therapist will find things for you to work on with information provided

It's not that I don't think I have nothing to say. My concern is that I'll be encouraged to leave and not to expect to "change him". I'm unable to leave and I'm wanting him to make these changes for himself that will better benefit our family. He's been working through the Dialectical Behaviour Therapy workbook with his therapist plus also through the compulsive lying. It's a start. I'm trying to be patient and I think sending a 3yr old to a therapist would be traumatic for her. She has seperation anxiety.

At this point I’d probably stop worrying about what your partner he does in his therapy and focus on the needs of yourself and your kids and their rights to live a peaceful life. Please do seek help for yourself and your kids

Ya. I don't question him about how his therapy is going at all. He volunteers information he wants to tell me.

[divine1966]

I don’t think therapist will push you to leave. They don’t supposed to tell you what to do.

Yeah 3 year old too young for therapy, but in the future yes. Well she doesn’t need to be separated or “sent” there. Parents are often right there in the same room or even in it together

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I don’t think therapist will push you to leave. They don’t supposed to tell you what to do.

Our couples counselor suggested individual counseling and for me she said so I could "vent".

Even in this forum, people ask why I'm still in this relationship and how I should leave. I know a therapist wouldn't tell me to leave, per say, but I've feared they'd indirectly suggested it.. and then what? I can't right now.. so I've put it off.

[MsLady]

One thing I'm struggling with, which I'll address with a therapist, is how to communicate with our daughters about these things.

When I was a young child, everything was kept tight lipped. There were a lot incidents that 'were' "traumatic" and we were left to process everything alone.

I don't want this for my girls. Dad and I have had a lot of heart-to-heart talks about how we can positively and negatively impact our girls. I'm very conscientious about that and am the one who brings things to the table.

Having said that, I've reacted to things, too. I've lived with a high level of stress.. with my special needs adult son, my estranged family members, isolation issues.. and whatever dad brings forward. I'm not a basket case, though. I don't self-medicate, drink, smoke, or do drugs. I take time for me regularly (and lately, daily) to help decompress. I research, I vent here.. just as an outlet.

I recognize that my daughter is affected and want to help her. Sure, we add a lot of fun into our days. We are always affectionate with our daughters. Our one yr old doesn't seem affected at all. They're both easy going and happy babies... but since that "door" incident (I regret and feel a lot of guilt about) our 3yr old has pushed back to ME for the first time. It's not a good feeling and I'm worried for her.

[divine1966]

I understand. But we aren’t acting here in a professional capacity, it’s not even allowed on here. Just peers who are on equal footing. I don’t think you’ll meet too many people on forums or in real life who think you shouldn’t leave.

But therapist would act in a different capacity. I once dated a man who had drinking problem and I was concerned. I saw a therapist and she never said a word. I broke up with a guy but she never suggested anything. In fact I was a bit frustrated that she didn’t have any opinions on what I should be doing.

I think you can even tell a therapist that you cannot afford to leave but would like some help like even if venting or with parenting. But it’s up to you of course

[divine1966]

Maybe therapist could help you with how to communicate all this to your children.

But children that young do not need to know that you and dad have conflicts and issues.

They are too young to understand, it’s not appropriate for their development.

We aren’t talking about teenagers here.

I don’t think the issue is that you don’t want to be tight lipped and sweep things under the rug. Children that young do not need to be in the middle of parental conflict because they cannot fully grasp no matter what you communicate to them. It’s not age appropriate. The best is to maintain peaceful home where parents do not fight and do not resent each other. That’s our responsibility to provide such home for our children.

I understand that you cannot accomplish it as it’s not how things play out in your home. Then you need to ensure that children know nothing about your conflicts. They are too young to understand that “parents have problems and are working on them”. 1 and 3 are way too young for this talk.

But talking to a therapist about it is a very good idea

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Maybe therapist could help you with how to communicate all this to your children.

But children that young do not need to know that you and dad have conflicts and issues.

They are too young to understand, it’s not appropriate for their development.

We aren’t talking about teenagers here.

I don’t think the issue is that you don’t want to be tight lipped and sweep things under the rug. Children that young do not need to be in the middle of parental conflict because they cannot fully grasp no matter what you communicate to them. It’s not age appropriate. The best is to maintain peaceful home where parents do not fight and do not resent each other. That’s our responsibility to provide such home for our children.

I understand that you cannot accomplish it as it’s not how things play out in your home. Then you need to ensure that children know nothing about your conflicts. They are too young to understand that “parents have problems and are working on them”. 1 and 3 are way too young for this talk.

But talking to a therapist about it is a very good idea

[Open Eyes]

Dad is crying and leaning on her for emotional support.

No three year old baby is capable of giving emotional support to a grown up. They barely if at all understand it and your husband should not be leaning on a baby for support.

A three year old can seem much more capable than they actually are, at that age they are still very much just a baby. What a baby wants most is to feel loved and SAFE to explore and learn about themselves and the world around them.

I understand you have been trying to learn and get support. Most people prefer to gather information and make up their own mind about their relationships. Remember, at three years old a child has feelings they do not understand. Avoiding comes from a child not wanting to feel uncomfortable feelings they simply do not understand.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by MsLady

One thing I'm struggling with, which I'll address with a therapist, is how to communicate with our daughters about these things.

When I was a young child, everything was kept tight lipped. There were a lot incidents that 'were' "traumatic" and we were left to process everything alone.

I don't want this for my girls. Dad and I have had a lot of heart-to-heart talks about how we can positively and negatively impact our girls. I'm very conscientious about that and am the one who brings things to the table.

Having said that, I've reacted to things, too. I've lived with a high level of stress.. with my special needs adult son, my estranged family members, isolation issues.. and whatever dad brings forward. I'm not a basket case, though. I don't self-medicate, drink, smoke, or do drugs. I take time for me regularly (and lately, daily) to help decompress. I research, I vent here.. just as an outlet.

I recognize that my daughter is affected and want to help her. Sure, we add a lot of fun into our days. We are always affectionate with our daughters. Our one yr old doesn't seem affected at all. They're both easy going and happy babies... but since that "door" incident (I regret and feel a lot of guilt about) our 3yr old has pushed back to ME for the first time. It's not a good feeling and I'm worried for her.

I would work with your therapist on how best to parent when the relationship dynamics are toxic.

[MsLady]

Thank you everyone. I will connect with a therapist and ask for support in how to best handle our children during these times. It's been on my mind and perhaps needed an outside perspective to kick me in the butt.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Avoiding comes from a child not wanting to feel uncomfortable feelings they simply do not understand.

Yes, I agree with this, for sure. I believe that's exactly what's happening with her.

[MsLady]

I'm so fortunate to be living by wooded trails and parks, and the weather lately has been beautiful here. We've been taking nightly family walks and finding our painted rocks that were placed throughout our community. It's like going on an Easter Egg Hunt! It gets us out.. exercise is good for our mental health.. our girls get to spend positive time with their parents.. and we return home in good spirits.

We also had Fancy Day, earlier on, an idea from a story we read earlier. So we wore hula skirts, beaded and Hawaiian necklaces, and funky bracelets and sunglasses.. then we went for a snack at a nearby park. We got a lot of fun and positive attention and the girls had fun. It was great.