Re: Avatars

<center>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Bevers}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</center>

I'm so glad you came by. I understand where you're coming from. There's no denying that gaping hole. It does get better, though. You're courageous to face that demon.

Hey... I forgot to tell you about the category about Pets, Hobbies, etc. You can hang out there, too, and tell us all about your gorgeous hobbies!

Hope to see more of you.

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Bevers}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Thanks for replying. I appreciate your input. I'm not sure that it is necessary to confront anyone about the things that happened in our childhoods (although at times I feel like I would like to demand answers from my parents about how and why they could have been so clueless, and said and done the things they did). Probably, it would just make them mad and make it worse. Parents do the best that they can, some better and some worse than others, but they all make mistakes. As a parent I am aware that I have shortcomings too. So did my parents' parents.

Not to confront or blame anyone, there is value in recognizing the things that happened and understanding how it affected us. That helps us to realize that there isn't really something wrong with us that limits our potential, but that there is a reason for the way we are and if it isn't working for us now, we can change. Confronting your demons isn't an easy task, but it will make you stronger.

I don't know if there is anyone who never experienced any abuse. People deal with it differently, but I think that when you do deal with it and learn to understand, even if it has brought you down and made you hurt, overcoming it makes you stronger and better than you ever could have been if it had never happened.

Maybe it isn't always abuse, but nobody's life is free from adversity, and without adversity we would never grow.
Wendy

<font color=red>"Striving for excellence motivates you; striving for perfection is demoralizing." -Harriet Braiker</font color=red>

Thanks September....

I am glad someone understands the gaping hole.....
I don't feel very brave right now... .

Bevers

<center>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Bevers}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</center>



<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

There's strength in numbers Bevers... please continue if you'd like... we'll try to catch you if you fall... You feel afraid, but your bravery is shining strong

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

"What did we all learn?"

Thanks, Wendy, that is the reason for beginning this isn't it? I've learned how much I hate my step-mom... how I'd buried her memories but not the feelings she aroused. No question what she'd done has had major impacts on my life after...

In reading your and September's responses, I repeatedly wanted to say: Do you see how it was your child self who drew these perceptions? Do you see how those perceptions were not pure? Do you see your inability of being able to draw a clear conclusion at an age when all you learned was dependant upon your very abusers? Then I was able to see how those same questions apply to me and my circumstance.

How could I reform my child conclusions. If I could re-create the exact circumstances of what happened and see it with new perspective, what did I think wrongly at the time?

Maybe I could see the evil witch not as someone out to get me personally. Maybe I could give her some excuse she never gave herself for her behaviour. Maybe I could tell her now how she made me feel then and see what she would have to say for herself, having to defend against an adult and not a helpless child. Maybe I could do as Tomi suggested way back in the thread about pushing her off a cliff (Imaginatively, of course).

Would her demise cure me? Would it change the past or brighten the future? I think I'd only feel a moment of vengeance and then still be who I am today. How can I clean my memory of this ugly image, the scowling face, the burning eyes, the raised hand always ready to strike, and she was a strong woman, she didn't hold anything back.... Maybe I could spit her name (Bitxx, Bitxx, Bitxx) from my mouth and let her die there on the drying soil with the foul taste in the heated desert sun, crawling with scorpions and rattlesnakes and all other vermin, with a tumbleweed for a headstone, blowing away in the dust and lost in all eternity.... maybe that would make me feel better....

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Hope it's OK; wanted to give you a hug, (((((((((((Darrel))))))))))))). Most sincerely, Jill

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT</font color=blue>

Very OK Thanks Peanut

Some for you too ((((((((((((((((Peanut)))))))))))))))

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Darrel}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

You have learned a lot too, haven't you? Recognizing what your step-mom did to you, and that you needed a mother and didn't have one. I feel for you. That must have really been awful to go through, and not easy to remember either.

Is it okay if I ask you a few questions?

What would you do differently as your adult self if you were back in the same situations?

As a child, what did you try to do to change the situation and to cope with it?

How did you feel about it?

I have more comments for you, but maybe it is best to give you a chance to look for your own answers.


<font color=red>"Striving for excellence motivates you; striving for perfection is demoralizing." -Harriet Braiker</font color=red>

<center>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Darrel}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</center>

" Maybe I could spit her name (Bitxx, Bitxx, Bitxx) from my mouth and let her die there"

I did basically the same with the old crone. I disowned her and I refuse to mention her name. One interesting tidbid; my mother named me after her, no middle name. I also discarded the name and gave myself a new name. Tomi, because I had gone by that since high school (even before I knew why, I hated her!) and added Renee because it means "rebirth."

Sounds like you have already discarded the witch. Visualize what you posted everytime you react to someone who says something that sounds like her. Like when I got mad at you for saying I didn't understand. I believe you realized you were reacting because that button got pushed. Spit her name out on the desert sand and leave her there to die.

For others reading this, this is the first step. Forgiveness comes later, when Darrel or anyone else is ready to let it go; when we realize that those people can't hurt us ever again.

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

(((((((((( Wendy ))))))))))

I'm sorry it's taken so long to reply... I needed some time to think, I need to work thru a few problems and I can see how it all ties together.

As I had forewarned us, this thread might cause us sleeplessness, agitation, obsession, etc. and I was no less susceptible even though I knew it's potential. These image of the *****y step-mom have been haunting me like a nightmare, creeping into my thoughts when I least expect it and even though I only experience it for a moment, it's been recurrent and intense each time. I even feel it now as I'm writing, but I'm going forward with this, I need to work it out.

What would I do as an adult in the same situation?

I see two possilbe answers. One, the way I should react, and two, the way I would react as I am now.

Ideal me says, sit down with the lady. Talk about what I feel about her and the treatment I've recieved from her. Use my dad's alliance to keep her in check. Measure her by her weakness and forgive her. Outwit her. Be kinder than her, cause there's no guilt connected to decency and no justification for mistreating kindness.

Real me says escape, avoid, blame, accuse, confront, argue, reason, express, complain, be angry, yell, hit, kick ......

What did I try to do to change the situation and to cope?

At first I tried to reason with her til I realized the deck was stacked against me. I thought of complaining to my dad but decided against it cause he'd been married and divorced so many times and I carried guilt because of it, whether it was deserved or not, but in the back of my mind, I though it was.

To cope, I read a lot of books, spent time at friends homes, thought school was great cause I'd be away from her, I developed a sense of humor that never let me feel the pain, I stayed as far away from her as I could.

How did I feel about it?

At the time, I didn't think it was so much to deal with. Just an unpleasant situation I'd eventually escape by growing up and moving away. I thought I was handling it. I had friends, I loved my dad, I did well in school, I was responsible to the rules... I grew accustomed to the idea I had no mother except my fantasy mother 100's of miles away. It was a closed door and I guess I didn't want to make friends with the lady after so much time had gone by. I didn't realize this closed door would have such an impact later when my whole house of cards collapsed.

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Yeah, I think that's a way to rid myself of her, but maybe too violent for my ease... I've practiced a cleansing exercize that I think might work well for this. Just a common breathing technique imagining all the stress leaving your body, in this case, I'd cleanse myself of the stressful memories.... I'm looking forward to the forgiveness step, but don't know that I'm ready for that yet. Not that I want to relish the pain I feel about her now, but I don't know how to forgive her. Mentally, it makes sense, emotionally I don't know what to do....

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

"Yeah, I think that's a way to rid myself of her, but maybe too violent for my ease... "

Could be... but you thought it at least once. You felt that rage at least that one time. You need to remember that you aren't expressing the rage and violence to her directly. It could just be that it's what you need to get rid of her "intrusion" into your thoughts and reactions. The more sure you become in your self, the less violent the image can be... or will become. There are times that I will actually smell the old crone around me. All I have to do now is say to myself "Get away from me!!" She's gone immediately. Just because it worked for me doesn't mean it has to work for you, though.

Can't say as I've forgiven her. I thought I had once, but if I think about what she did to many of her grandkids, the anger comes back. I still want to see her at the Great, White Judgement Throne when Jesus sends her into the Lake of Fire!

Anyway... I don't think about her or how I feel about her too often, thank God!!

We all have to do what suits us best.



<font color=blue>Don't die with your music still in you.</font color=blue>

thanks Nowhere,

the support is nice..... I wish I felt the bravery you
were talking of.... instead I feel weak, and confused.

Bevers

"What did we learn?"

Do you see how it was your child self who drew these perceptions? Do you see how those perceptions were not pure?

Of course, they weren't pure but it was the only way I knew to defend myself. I didn't have the understanding at the time to deal with it in a proper way.

Comes to mind a disagreement I was having with a friend's son when I was trying to teach him how to budget his money. He told me "I've been taking care of myself all my life." What he didn't want to understand was that he was still a child; sixteen, I believe. I was trying to tell him that an adult, with an adult's understanding he could deal with problems in better ways.

Do you see your inability of being able to draw a clear conclusion at an age when all you learned was dependent upon your very abusers?

Exactly, but if I'm reading you right, it still comes back to the fact that a child doesn't have the wherewithal to make clear, thought-out solutions. In my understanding, a child probably doesn't even think of how to protect himself. Something from within takes over.

Then I was able to see how those same questions apply to me and my circumstance.

I'm so glad that you were able to come to those conclusions on your own. {{{{{{Darrel}}}}}} Maybe now you can understand what I said before that upset you. When you said that you have a burden for society's injustices, it really came from within you and the injustices committed against you. When I said you needed to begin with you, that's what I meant; you can't take care of society's injustices until you understand the injustices committed against you. {{{{Darrel}}}}

You can't change Betrixx, but you can change how you react to her. At some later time, you may even be able to understand why she is the way she is.

When I was abused by the old crone, when my mom neglected my spirit, my psyche, I could have turned around and treated my kids the same way. The potential was there. But something inside me told me it wasn't right. Why would I want to hurt my kids the way I had been hurt??

When I was a student in grade and high school, I spent my time daydreaming or talking and getting in trouble. There was good reason, but that's another story. When my youngest was in grade school, it was discovered that he is learning disabled. He was put in Special Ed classes but he was also integrated into the "normal" classes. There was one teacher that just had to have it her way. She felt he just goofed off instead of doing his work. At one parent/teacher conference, she was really ragging on him. I put my hand on his knee to let him know I was with him and that with me, it was okay! I understood. I had been through the same kinds of conferences. The teacher kept shooting daggers through her eyes at me, but I purposely gave them right back to her!! I also had a private talk with her after the conference... and then I took my son out for a late lunch and I told him I understood what he had gone through and why.

Which brings me back to my lack of affirmation/validation from my mother... which is the personal onion I am peeling away at.

This last bit on the board also taught me a whole lot and it also served as a personal affirmation... which is what I really need. I need to believe in myself and my decisions and not replay old tapes that my mother programmed.

I was right in feeling what I did. I know I was! Darrel, you knew you were right, too. Having stood back and watched you in action, I began to understand and accept that just because someone else has a different perspective, it doesn't make it wrong. The other person doesn't have to think exactly like me to be right. I've learned that I am no less for thinking differently. It makes me a unique individual and that's a good thing!

As much as I hate the idea, I've learned to begin accepting the fact that my mother had been beat down by her own mother. She, also, had been invalidated and criticized. Her self-worth suffered greatly, too. She, too, didn't believe in herself. Maybe that's why she didn't trust herself to resolve the conflict. It well could have been fear of yet another personal attack on her. I could go on and on as the possibilities flood my mind, but I think I've made my point.

I've re-learned that those around me are as human as I am and as imperfect. I'm learning to trust again with the full knowledge that I may be let down by those I trust, but that's okay because I'm learning to "be enough" for myself, no matter how painful it could be. I'm learning yet again, that no matter what comes at me, I can deal with it because it doesn't mean that it's all about me.

(whew!)

<font color=blue>Don't die with your music still in you.</font color=blue>

((((( Bevers )))))

"I wish...." It's in you, you just have to dig a little deeper, take a chance.... our fears rarely come true.... good people, like we have on our forum, won't let you fall

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

((((((((((((( Tomi ))))))))))))

There's so much in your last post, I'm gonna need an extra day to respond.... thanks for making me think

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

((((( Tomi )))))

In my understanding, a child probably doesn't even think of how to protect himself. Something from within takes over.

How true. I assume some sort of natural instinct takes over, fight or flee. What dynamics and environment would the fight reaction have created? What of a flee reaction? I think I chose to respond differently at different times.

In my situation, to fight back was a challenge to her. She had to prove she was bigger, smarter, stronger. It often ended with the arm ready to strike pose, the burning black eyes..... It was do it her way, or take a licking.

When I chose to flee, she always seemed to toss in an extra insult or comment to cap off her victory. Winning wasn't good enough, she needed domination.

Either way, I felt bound, gagged, and whipped.

I learned that some people were very insecure about themselves. That they used domination of others to improve their self-image. I understood at a young age that ego can be an ugly thing sometimes. I began to practice modesty, even when I won a school competition, or had my assignment used as an example in class, I denied myself any feelings of victory. I wanted the recognition, but I wouldn't let myself really feel it. I began to despise braggarts, people who always seemed to say the right thing at the right time, always had the cutest outfits, the prettiest girlfriend, the nicest car later when I was older. I still operated on the edges of these circles, but I never was one of them. They wouldn't have me because I was "b-class" person, and I wouln't have them because they wouldn't have me. The message I recieved from my step-mom reached farther into my life than I realized before now. Because of the ugliness I saw in her personality, I denied myself any good feelings about me, and I developed negative views of "the in crowd."

No, I cant change bitxx woman, but I can see her in a different light as you've suggested. Maybe I can even be grateful. I think any person in that position in a childs life , during those important formative years, is going to have a major influence on the child. It could have been worse. Maybe I shouldn't blame her so much. Maybe I saw the most evil fragments of her personality. Maybe I magnified them. Maybe there was no chance for her to do anything right. I wanted my mom. Not her, not anyone else. Maybe I should give her a break. Maybe she didn't realize the important role she was playing in my life. Maybe she didn't want to become insta-mom to a 10 year old. Maybe I wasn't the little angel I remember. Maybe no one would have been "right" for me. Maybe that's how she felt.



"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

<center>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Darrel}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</center>

I could have written your next to last paragraph!

As for being grateful, I prefer to think of my childhood as having been dealt a bad hand. I've made some bad plays, but I've learned to play my cards better. Next round will be even better than the last time.

I've accepted what happened to me and have picked at it until I found some good outcome. At first, I was aware of all the wasted time and I was very resentful. But when the coin is flipped, life has polished the other side to a shine. It still has a way to go, though. I wouldn't be who I am today if it hadn't been for my past experiences. But I can't say that I'm grateful.

<font color=blue>Don't die with your music still in you.</font color=blue>

Maybe grateful was stretching it... Even as I typed that last night I was searching for the payoff.... Maybe in some sort of "Boy Named Sue" kind of way?

Nietche comes to mind. "That which does not kill you...."

The polished coin is a sunny side.

For me, carrying resentment only makes me angry.... if I can find a way to choose optimism and make a mental effort to redirect my thinking towards it, it acts as an alchemy towards all the associated thoughts and memories.

Gratefulness is the highest state of emotion I've ever experienced.

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Darrel, Tomi, this is to both of you. You have each pretty much said what I wanted to say the other day but thought it was better to let you find it for yourself.

<font color=orange>Tomi:</font color=orange>I've accepted what happened to me and have picked at it until I found some good outcome. At first, I was aware of all the wasted time and I was very resentful. But when the coin is flipped, life has polished the other side to a shine. It still has a way to go, though. I wouldn't be who I am today if it hadn't been for my past experiences. But I can't say that I'm grateful.

<font color=orange>Darrel:</font color=orange>No, I cant change bitxx woman, but I can see her in a different light as you've suggested. Maybe I can even be grateful. I think any person in that position in a childs life , during those important formative years, is going to have a major influence on the child. It could have been worse. Maybe I shouldn't blame her so much. Maybe I saw the most evil fragments of her personality. Maybe I magnified them. Maybe there was no chance for her to do anything right. I wanted my mom. Not her, not anyone else. Maybe I should give her a break. Maybe she didn't realize the important role she was playing in my life. Maybe she didn't want to become insta-mom to a 10 year old. Maybe I wasn't the little angel I remember. Maybe no one would have been "right" for me. Maybe that's how she felt.

What happened to us happened. It is in the past, and nothing we do now can change the facts. We might not understand the reasons, but we survived and we are here now. We can control what we do from here on. Wow, Darrel, you are even expressing sympathy for the person who hurt you! Yes, there were reasons why they acted the way they did, and we probably won't understand all of them, but everybody is human, and if we go through life carrying a grudge, it's us who hurt.

We hurt and went though pain and wasted time, but was that time really wasted? Who would we be now if that experience were removed? Would you choose to be you without that experience or would you rather be who you are? When you go through the refiner's fire it hurts, but look at how beautiful you are when you come out of it!


<font color=red>"Striving for excellence motivates you; striving for perfection is demoralizing." -Harriet Braiker</font color=red>

Nietche is right on! Even though I've been at the door of suicide, I have to say that I would have been responsible for my own demise, not the illness.

Choices... that's what life is, one choice after another. Would that we could always have the presence of mind to make the right choices.

"Gratefulness is the highest state of emotion I've ever experienced."

To me, this is a loaded statement... Let me think about it and at a later date, could we dissect it? Wow... the personal possibilites are staggering right now...

<font color=blue>Don't die with your music still in you.</font color=blue>

((((((((((( Wendy )))))))))))

I don't think I made any concsious effort to carry a grudge, it came to my attention just recently that I never really resolved any feelings about her. I closed off that part of my life, neither remembering or feeling the anger. Until now, I hadn't thought about what her role had been in my life or how it contributed to the outcome. I developed an apathy for her and all those memories.

Reawakening the experience, my anger has boiled to the surface. It's not an anger at the world though, it's directed to her and what came after because of how she'd been. It'd be challenging to track every skewed perception I created due to my experiences with her, but there'd have to be many. Self-denial is only one example. Feeling attacked when disagreed with is still another. Feeling selfish about having my own feelings fits in there. Afraid to defend myself is still another. I didn't even have to think hard to come up with those as starting points.

The idea of forgiving and moving on is one I've tried to apply in life. For some things, it's harder than others. We can't forgive if we don't understand what happened. If we forget and forgive, as I've tried to do, we really learn no lessons. Forgetting and forgiving may work if the insult was from someone unimportant to the development of our character and might be the best way to deal in certain circumstances, but I can't make it work for this situation. Too much damage was done.

I'm not suggesting that you've suggested we simply forget and move on. I'm only clarifying why I need to retrace what happened to the best of my ability before I can forgive and before I'll feel I've learned anything from it. Even if I could give blanket forgiveness, which I'm capable of, I'd want to undo the hurt. That's the purpose of this thread for me. Face the dragon, glean the lesson, learn appreciation, use it's lesson. In a word, redemption.

We hurt and went though pain and wasted time, but was that time really wasted?

My original tagline here was the line from the Eagles song "Wasted Time." "Maybe someday we will find, it wasn't really wasted time."

My experiences are uniquiley my own. I believe the saying that everything is unfolding exactly as it should. If I could choose a different fate, would I? The answer is no. I believe every set of circumstances in life comes with it's own set of challenges. The choice is still ours to avoid or confront. What each of us learns from these challenges is the message we've been asked to deliver to those who come behind us. These are the messages I've been selected to deliver.

Would you choose to be you without that experience or would you rather be who you are?

Prior to my fall, I saw a life ahead filled with possibilities. There were no obstacles in my view. How realistic was that? Wouldn't the fall have happened in some form or another eventually? What are the possibilities my life could have turned out worse? A crippling accident, the Twin Towers disaster, or any number of terrible fates which have happened to others? I think I'll take what I've been given. It's most familiar to me and even though it hasn't been what I foresaw before, it's uniquiley mine and I've learned to love my positive attributes despite my shortcomings.


"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

I talked to a minister once about forgiveness. He told me we can forgive but we don't have to forget. To forget would put us back in harm's way.

Just my 2 on that.

<font color=blue>Don't die with your music still in you.</font color=blue>

As usual, great comments, Darrel!

Any time that I am talking in terms of "we" of course I am including myself in that, and I certainly was when I talked about grudges. It doesn't do any good, but I hold so many grudges. I resent the staff at the elementary school where I went to first-third grades for being insensitive to children's feelings and for assuming that a little girl who says she is afraid is just making it up to get attention or whatever reasons, and totally disregarding her concerns. I resent the school counselor in seventh grade who chose to do nothing to help a girl who spend her lunch hours in the bathroom crying and head-banging and who believed that the entire world hated her, beyond just asking why one time and then never giving it a second thought. I resent all the teachers who told me that I didn't hurt or shouldn't hurt when I did. I resent the ones who didn't get involved because I was just an Air Force Brat and would be someone else's concern soon enough. My college roommates who shunned me when all I asked of them was to be my friends. My sister who tagged along to make sure that I never got a chance to tell anyone that something was wrong. My parents, who thought that children should be cute and cuddly forever, and denied my need to grow up and experience life for myself. The therapists who never asked the right questions, and told me that I was just homesick or just looking for attention. The university professors who wouldn't give me a chance because I wasn't just like them.

How would my life be different if just one of these people had listened to me, advocated for me, recognized that I had potential but needed encouragement and understanding? Any of them could have made a huge difference, but they didn't.

Life could have been easier. I could have been somebody, worth something. I could have had a career, self-confidence, the ability to provide for myself and to do the things I want to do with my life already.

But, who might I not have met? What experiences would I not have had? What might I not have learned that I did? What strengths would I not have gained?

There were two trees. One grew near the river bank, and all the water and everything it needed was always within easy reach. The other grew some distance away, where the ground was hard and dry and it had to work hard for everything it got, and sometimes do without. Both trees grew tall and beautiful. One day there was a bad storm, and the tree that grew by the riverbank was blown over, but the other tree was able to withstand the storm. One tree never had to develop very deep roots, but the other had a well-established, deep, strong root system because it had to. Which tree was better off?

I still harbor grudges and resentments. Maybe I'm not quite who I want to be yet, but I know who I want to be, and maybe if life had been easier I wouldn't even be that close. Everybody has adversity - lots of people have suffered much more than I have. That's what life is about. I should just let go, but it isn't that easy.

Why, then, if adversity makes us strong, should we help other people? I don't want to be like all those that I resent. It's not for me to say how much and what kind of adversity someone should have. And adversity doesn't strengthen us until we overcome it. With help, we can overcome more adversity than any of us ever could alone.

Just some thoughts, mostly for my own benefit, but if any of it helps anyone, so much the better.

<font color=red>"Striving for excellence motivates you; striving for perfection is demoralizing." -Harriet Braiker</font color=red>