[kvinneakt]

Hello, I am new here and looking for guidance. I am beginning to suspect that the root cause for my lifelong depression and feeling of being unspeakably flawed is related to my being a man who feels more like a woman than a man. I am not a cross dresser and have no desire to change my appearance in order to appear as a woman. I simply feel much more mentally like a woman then a man. (If a genie could grant me one wish, I would want to be forever changed, but it would have to be 100% perfect.)

Anyway, I have been looking endlessly for a support group, like this one, but related to sexual identity issues. There are some out there for extremes, like trans-sexual people, but nothing for more simply mixed up people.

If anyone has anything they can offer, it would be appreciated.

[PhaeDay]

I really don't have much insite on what you are going through... but if you don't mind my asking, what aspects of your life, mind, thoughts etc feel more like a woman than a man? I just want to gain a little more understanding of this, thanks,
ºPhae

[kvinneakt]

Nutshell: As a child I did the girl things: dolls, cooking, sewing, pretending, board games. Not the boy things: sports, fighting, cars, etc. I used to fold my genitals to look like a girls and hope it would stick.

As an adolescent I was attracted to girls, but for cuddling and nurturing possibly more than sex (of which I had none). My first real girlfriend gave up on me in frustration. She wanted to do it. I just wanted to kiss and touch.

As a young adult I married (still am), but my sex life was (still is) more of a masturbatory fantasy. I would imagine myself as a woman having sex with myself, or with a woman. I found I mixed socially much better with women who usually accepted me as "one of the girls". I could rarely mix with "manly" men and was totally mystified about what in the h3ll they were all about. I did get along with androgynous men and gay men just fine.

There have been incidents of someone referring to a feminine quality in me and I was delighted. A couple times I have been told I was just behaving "like a man" and it was rather offensive.

As a middle age man, I prefer the company of women as peers. With rare exceptions, any social group I have been involved in has been all women but me.

If I could find a genie in a bottle I would only wish to reborn in the right body. I would not change my sexual preference and would be a lesbian.

The whole concept of "gender dysphoria" or "gender identity disorder" came as a total dopeslap a couple weeks ago. I had never really thought of my mostly repressed gender confusion as a root cause of a lot of unhappiness. When this was brought to my attention recently somehow the light came on and many incidents through my life suddenly had meaningful context.

I don't fit in with what I have found of most of the online trans-gendered community. I do not have any ambitions of cross dressing or sex change. With what I have to work with, I would be a very ugly woman. All I want to do is come to terms with who is living in my skin.

I should like to share experiences with other men like me. This is a puzzle. I don't think I could ever share myself effectively with men.

Thank you for asking...

[kvinneakt]

It is a very confusing problem. I am going to the pdoc Monday and will be asking for a referral to a therapist who works with gender issues.

I have been struggling with an unspeakable void in my life forever. I have always felt lke damaged goods which no one with any sense would want to have anything to do with. I would actually be glad to be able to identify even something as difficult as gender dysphoria as a root cause and so have something tangible to work with.

The very real problem is, if this is the problem, how do I come to an understanding with my wife without whom I would be devastated. If I am indeed a "gender dysphoric" person, what does it say about her and the relationship we have had for decades? It would definately force her to ask herself some very difficult questions with possibly even harder answers.

You are right about co-dependance. I have long recognized this in our relationship. I think that we are out growing it the past few years. We can and do have our separate interests and go our own ways much more often than not.

[Rapunzel]

Kvinneakt,

Now I think I understand your username. Do you have a scandinavian background? I've picked up enough Norwegian to get myself into trouble anyway.

I think that you are on the right track. You are recogizing that you have some problems and also some possible reasons for them. I think that talking to a professional about it will be very valuable to you. Working through your issues very well could be very difficult on your marriage. That is something that you should talk about with a therapist, and eventually probably include your wife in the discussion. It sounds like a very frustrating problem. I'm a little worried that my five-year-old son could easily grow up and develop a similar problem. He is the youngest, with two older sisters, and sometimes it is pretty clear that he would rather be a girl than a boy. I don't know how confused he actually is - he has good male role models in my husband and other people we interact with, but it's natural for a child to want to be like the older siblings, and he wants to play with the dolls, dress-up, have tea parties, and all those things that his sisters do and sometimes they exclude him just because he is the little brother and that is how big sisters are. Well, I can see how it must be very confusing and frustrating.
Wishing you the best, and the answers you are looking for!

<font color=green>Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that, you, too, can become great. -Mark Twain</font color=green>

[jennie]

certain portions of the brain are larger if exposed to testosterone and the corresponding parts smaller in testosterene-deprived brains.

if a genie could grant me one wish, i would want society to be open to love others who are different then they are. no one is 100% perfect. learning to love ourselves despite our imperfections is the REAL ideal. (((((Huggs)))))) i wish i could give you a real hug.

[jennie]

certain portions of the brain are larger if exposed to testosterone and the corresponding parts smaller in testosterene-deprived brains.

if a genie could grant me one wish, i would want society to be open to love others who are different then they are. no one is 100% perfect. learning to love ourselves despite our imperfections is the REAL ideal. (((((Huggs)))))) i wish i could give you a real hug.

[kvinneakt]

Even though my gender confusion is perplexing me at this time, I don't percieve it as a "problem", but rather a personality characteristic that is being exposed to the light. It is not like depression where there is a collection of symptoms that overlay experience. It is more like the an aspect of the "me" that has the experience.

Your son may have some feminine characteristics. These are not his problems. How other people treat him could be. Rather, how people WILL treat him, WILL be a problem. Reassure him that there a lot of jerks in the world, and they may make the loudest noise, but MOST people are decent and understanding. As time goes by he will be able to sort out who is near enough to him to minimize the conflicts.

[Rapunzel]

Actually, I was referring to your depression and that you seemed to have discomfort related to the confusion. Feeling like you are not who you are meant to be could certainly contribute to depression. It's worth exploring your feelings about it.

<font color=green>Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that, you, too, can become great. -Mark Twain</font color=green>

[kvinneakt]

OK. So this is not about depression. It might be a big part of the cause. So I write...

I told my pdoc today that I am OFF meds for now until some unknown date. I want to FEEL again, ups and downs. It has been a screaming roller coaster ride for a few weeks now, but I am getting used to it. I like to cry with a hair trigger. It makes me feel more alive. She said my feelings are not uncommon.

I told her about my gender confusion. She immediately said a therapist is in order. Unfortunately, i am with Kaiser and it could take weeks. (Kaiser is sort of like walmart. You can usually get what you need, but there are compromises with service and quality.)

So now I rage at the machine. Along with crying, I have a hair trigger to anger, laughter, and even sex.

I have a horrible job that most anyone would die for. I baby sit a large computer installation that rarely has anything go wrong with it. That means many hours every day with nothing to do but read books, magazines, and the web. It pays the bills, but is hell with the self -esteem, no to mention the very long dull days. There are no other jobs around here. I have tried. It really is unbelievable what I "do" for a living.

Why don't I go to school? I have. I spent years in school days and working nights. SSRIs and loss of enthusiasm, and depression put it all behind me. I would rather read a good mystery novel.

Sorry about the ravings of a semi-lunatic. I am a mess and you are my friends now.

[SeptemberMorn]

{{{{kvinneakt}}}} Go ahead and rant. Very true, you are among friends.

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[darkeyes]

Let it out my friend, it does no one any good to bottle up emotions, just makes you feel more miserable.
Set them free. . .
Take care,
"darkeyes"

In giving advice seek to help, not please your friend
SOLON

[kvinneakt]

I met, online, a friend who is a transsexual woman, who has been very kind and spent quite a bit of her time and mind with me. She told me of her history that has some parallels to my own, but more extreme. She was a very masculine appearing man, now is a very attractive woman. Amazing transformation. She and I are quite different there; I have no ambitions of altering my appearance.

I sent her my nutshell history, and a little more, that was posted here earlier. Just in case you have any interest, I wanted to share her reply. It is long and I don't really expect any replies, I just was quite touched with her willingness to be involved and wanted to share that there are people out there who care for us mixed up (all of us here) people.

-----------------------------------------------

Dearest K.V.

I make an consorted effort to maintain a measure of "clinical neutrality" as it were, when offering direction to people in your position. Indeed one of my long suits is my ability to do that. However I feel compelled to let that down for a moment so I can share a few things with you in a straight forward way.

First I want to tell you how impressed I am with the personal objectivity you have obtained. It had to be (and probably continues to be) a difficult endeavor. The courage to allow yourself to have this understanding is going to serve you well. It also took courage to share your understanding of yourself with me. With that in mind, I want to talk a bit about your writings.

When I read what you wrote to me, I found myself sitting in front of the computer with tears in my eyes. When you described how you feel about yourself, your body and your approach to sex it's as if I were the one doing the writing. Some of the details are different, but the feelings you express are the same right down to wording you use. I truly understand what you are feeling right now. The feelings of confusion and frustration along with an unhealthy dose of guilt and just being plain scared. I too had done exactly what I was to supposed to do. I built a life based on what I was supposed to be, not what I was. To come to that understanding nearly cost me my life. The paramedic within me wouldn't allow me to do such an insult to myself or the people around me, but it was a close thing. Again I want you to understand that you are NOT alone.

I personally know a sizeable number of people who could have indeed written what you wrote. It has always amazed me how a group of people who were raised in different ways, who have different personalities and life experiences could relate such feelings as yours in near exactly the same way. When I first met these folks I was a bit overwhelmed by the fact that in many ways they knew me better than people I had known for 20 Yrs.

And that brings us back to the your question as to where you should go from here. In my opinion you have already made the first step in the right direction and that is seeking out others with feelings such as yours. At some point it will serve you well to meet a few of these folks personally. One of the girls in the group suggested you contact the Northwest Gender Alliance for support. NWGA is a transgendered support group here in Portland. As I mentioned in my post to you, the transgendered community is a very diverse bunch, however the vast majority are cross-dressers who have reasons for doing what they do that are generally much different than yours. They can indeed offer some support and input as it relates to the superficial aspects of how the culture reacts to people who express gender variance. That could be valuable if at some time in the future you feel the need to experiment with your appearance. However the paradigm of approach to personal issues and life decisions that are correct for a cross-dresser, in my opinion doesn't work well for a person with feelings such as yours.

You mentioned in your letter that you have a therapy intake session coming. Again, you seem to be ahead of the curve. Therapy will help you to continue to refine your feelings about yourself and also outline some practical options as to how you can deal with those feelings. I assume that the intake session is an evaluation as it relates to insurance and to attempt to find a proper therapist. I offer a note of caution here. When dealing with feelings such as yours, it is paramount that you find a therapist who has a lot of experience in dealing with gender dysphoria as opposed to Joe Socialworker who has only a cursory knowledge of gender issues but works cheap. Insurance companies LIKE cheap! Over the years I have come to understand many therapists have little or no experience in helping with these issues. The subject is usually glossed over in their training. Also many therapists find it difficult not to impress their personal agenda on patients, based on their religious beliefs or personal opinions. We are indeed a specialized minority who requires specialized care. If you wish, I can offer you some options on therapists. Just let me know.

Just for your information, I attaching part of a post that I wrote for a transgendered group on the east coast at the end of this email. It deals with some of the terms used as it relates to the transgendered community, as the group was having a bit of difficulty with the lexicon. The list is far from exhaustive as I have left out some of the more obscure terms.

Lastly, Hon you need to know that you are not imposing on me or "taking too much of my time and energy". Even though we haven't met, and may never meet, understand that we do indeed have much in common as it relates to the issue at hand. Know that you are not alone and if you feel the need I'm just an email away. If you want to laugh or cry or cuss or just plain talk, I'll be here. It's a big wide wonderful and scary world out there, and I have come to understand that we all are much stronger together than we are apart. But I imagine you know that already. If you didn't you wouldn't have reached out to others. Keep the faith and know that if you allow it, things will be ok. Until later.

Bumper sticker: Wherever you go, there you are

[mj14]

kv, I am so happy to see that you have found a "kindred spirit", and from the note, may be on your way to finding others. You are a very special person, and it has been so easy to offer you support and caring, but sometimes you need to talk to someone who feels the same way you do. And heck, you can never have too wide a support network, right? : )

*hugs*
mj

[heidu]

Kv,
It must feel good to have found someone who really understands. Good for you!!!
Heidu

Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending.
~ Carl Bard ~

[Sam]

Hi kvinneakt and welcome! It was nice meeting you online tonight.

First, I want to say that I am very glad that you came here and posted. It’s a start – a very important start and I can never say that enough! And we all know just telling someone, or talking about it helps one so.

I believe that every person is different in some way or another, and that is not bad, for it would be a very boring world if we all looked the same, thought the same and dresses the same. I guess what I’m trying to say is simply, being different from others isn’t all that bad, or it doesn’t have to be. The most important thing – is how does it effect you?

And – you mentioned in your post that you are married, so does your wife know (I expect she does, and if so, have the two of you ever discussed it? I ask, because it does have an effect on her and your relationship so it will be very important on your dealing with it.

Myself, I’ve never been what one would ever call macho, but again, I’ve never been what one would call a sissy either. It’s a really long story, and if you wanted to read my posts here, I am sure you would learn of it so I won’t explain it all, but, after a really bad relationship, I started dressing and found I enjoyed it very much. In fact, I felt more at home in a dress than anything else. But I wasn’t gay and didn’t have any desire to be so. Not that I have anything against gays – it is just that I am not gay.

My dressing was a great thing to be honest. It enabled me to better understand women and how they would perceive things – Like being whistled at by men. Wow! I never had any idea how degrading that was until I received a few whistles myself. Me? I don’t whistle at women. No way – I have way too much respect for them. I actually think everyone would be better able to understand the other if they would only take the time and live in their shoes awhile (especially if they are red pumps - sighsss).

Also, one's gender identity and sexual orientation are 2 very different things - and this is something a lot of people either don't know or admit to. I’ve found that way too often, people can make rather fast judgements, especially on issues they don’t understand or want to know about.

And please don’t get me wrong – I’m not trying to persuade you to chosse one gender or another, but believe it important for you to know which you relate to best, and how it would effect your way of life. And your spouse’s. Would she stick?

As I mentioned earlier, it’s great that you posted here. These people here, are a GREAT bunch and have always treated me well and with respect. I am thankful for them. I think it is great you are seeking professional help too. I know that one cannot be 100% happy until they know who they are. It took like, forever for me to figure that one out. Silly ole me. And I suspect it is that way for most of us, it is a matter of knowing.

So please post more about yourself, and how it effects your wife, your life and what steps you are taking. I will respond with concern, praise and happy tidings as often as I can. And I apologize for having written a book – I had so many thoughts taking me so many different ways I found it hard to get them down on paper, so to speak.

Please be assured – you are not alone and there are people that do care, of which, I am only one.

Take care,

Sam

[kvinneakt]

As I told you on PM, I am tickled PINK that I found you on "who's online" and looked at your profile to find you might be a kindred spirit!!!!



You asked about my wife. She is sitting 5 feet away from me right now at her computer and has ZERO idea what is going on here. And very curious.

I have a therapist appt coming up soon, but in the meantime have been having some talks with a close friend of my wife and me, who is a therapist, and shared the SECRET. My friend knows my wife and is sure my wife is up to the challenge. I hope so, because telling her just what's so is very important to me. And VERY SCARY!

You are too right about one's gender orientation, and sexual preference, and physical sex being different things. I find it so natural to have the feelings I do, but know that they are pretty darn weird to most everyone else. (I mean a lesbian, in a man's body! For G-D's sake, this is wacko!) My big fear is just how wacko my wife is going to think I am, and then she is for having spent 30 oblivious years with me this way. (Oblivious to me, as well.)

Respect women!? Absolutely! I was a women's libber when the whole idea was born in the early 70's. I love women! I wish I was one! I kind of am one! Sort of...

Well, thanks again for your time and thoughts.

kv

Bumper sticker: Wherever you go, there you are

[Sam]

Wow - 30 years and you and she have never discussed this? I know it is a hrad thing to do, and the longer the time - the harder it will be I think (but I could be wrong). How long have you felt this way?

I do know that security is a very important thing to a woman, and after she learns of the real you and deals with it, her next concern will probably be how it is going to effect her, then you and she. And the children.

It will be important as to how she feels about this issue. Have you any idea what her thoughts may be? Have the two of you ever watched any movies or shows with crossdressers and or transgender people? If so, what were her thoughts? If at all possible, try and get her to watch a movie with one or more of these and see her opinion. And no, I'm not saying it has to be adukt rated. Robin Williams starred in Mrs. Doubtfire or a title close to that. That would be a good one to watch and I'm sure you could rent it at any viedo store.

And no, I don't think you're wacky. If I were a woman, I'd be a lesbian myself. Nothing against guys, but they just aren't for me - shudders!

Keep me informed - my new found friend!

Sam

[kvinneakt]

King or.. uh ... Queen of de Nile. Me.

I have been rather hoping this would all just up and go away back where it came from. Instead I spent my "work" day browsing transsexual web sites. Everything I read says I should be obsessed with either cross dressing and/or surgical sexual reassignment. I am not, therefore I am not one of "those people".

Or am I...

I did a little thought experiment. A room full of people are sorted into men on one side and women on the other. Pretending I am so androgynous (I am not) that I could sort myself to either side and be accepted by all, which way would I go? No question I would head to the women's side. If it comes to "us" or "them", my "us" is women and my "them" is men.

Hmmm.

I also took an online test called Combined Gender Identity And Transsexuality Inventory or COGIATI. I have taken it three times and come up with 3 scores 150, 200, 175. Some of the answers were hard to choose from, so each time I took it I tried to recall what I had used before and use the close alternate instead. Today was the 175 score.

Score: +130 to +389,COGIATI classification FOUR, PROBABLE TRANSSEXUAL
What this means is that the Combined Gender Identity And Transsexuality
Inventory has classified your internal gender identity to be essentially
feminine, but with some masculine or androgynous traits. It is very
possible that you are a candidate for a diagnosis of transsexualism. You
show a strong degree of gender dysphoria. At the very least, further
investigation should be undertaken. Your COGIATI score places you
among the majority of those diagnosed as transsexuals, the 'late onset'
transsexual.

Hmmm.

Now what? As I rode my bike home from work I though maybe I am really fooling myself. Maybe I should at least try cross dressing. I wonder what my wife has that might fit? I even looked thru her stuff in the closet. No can do. It is too much to even consider.

So what to do? Nothing! Sit down at the computer and just tell you all about it. That is the story of my day.

PS: If you have any curiousity what this test is, here is the link: http://transsexual.org/TEST0.html

Bumper sticker: Wherever you go, there you are

[LMo]

Hey KV:
I think if you were interested in cross-dressing, you probably would have done it by now. I'm not sure I understand what your goal is to "out" yourself (I'm not saying you SHOULDN'T out yourself -- I'm just curious what your goal is). Are you merely looking for social acceptance of your feelings? Do you want anything to change about your life? Are you just tired of keeping your feelings a secret? You don't seem to want anything from anyone; seems like you just want the freedom to tell people how you feel, even if you don't act or dress differently.

So if that's the case, is it really such a big deal? I don't know why your friends and family would blink twice at the news. It just doesn't sound as extreme as you seem to think it is. They might just shrug and say "so?".

But honestly, I would like to hear more about how you feel, because I definitely don't want to blow off something that's important to you!

KV - I'm your bud no matter what, though! I really enjoyed chatting with ya last night and was bummed when you had to leave!

Ian is going to be a-ok!

[kvinneakt]

Good questions. Mostly I am on a self inquiry and have come to realize that there are some things important to me that I have not accepted and embraced. It is hard to do this keeping it all from my wife. Why do I keep it from her? Because I think that that nature of who I am reflects the nature of who she is. If my nature is atypical and she has accepted it, unconsciously, then it may say something about the nature of her, too.

Let me share something from my web reading: OH! I can't find it now.... It basically said that a male, who sees him/herself as more a woman, but is sexually attracted to women, is somewhere on the queer scale other than straight, more like lesbian. That is obvious. By extension, a woman who is consciously or sub-consciously attracted to a man like that is not exactly being attracted to an average straight man, and therefore also somewhere on the queer scale other than straight.

Does that make sense?

What my big concern is when my wife starts reflecting on what all this means to her, it is not just my issue. It is her's too. There is a real can of worms here.

Bumper sticker: Wherever you go, there you are

[Sam]

Hey (((KW)))

I've done a lot of searching about gender issues so I'm aware of how she may feel. It's scarey too I am sure for it telling her - one just doesn't know how she will handle it. For onr thing, this has been something that you have had to deal with over an extended amount of time so it would be unreasinable to expect her to deal with it over night.

In my research, I've found that some women just can't deal with it at all, and others come to be supportive of their spouse. I think, it all comes down to your present relationship and that if she really loves you, then she will deal.

And you know too, that telling her your darkets secret could very well show her how much you love her - for her to know that you trusther that much.

I've had some disasterous results from being honest, and once they learned I dressed - that was the end of our relationship. But those were girlfriends and not spouses, and when I reflect back - I am better off not having them in my life since we disagreed on the subject.

And then ... I've had others eager to help me too, so it all comes down to the person. So I think, when it comes down to your wife - you know her best.

Lot's of luck to you sweetie

Sam