[nowheretorun]

First let me say I'm still sorting a lot of my feelings out.... I didn't want to wait too long to reply... I don't mean to offend anyone more than I already have...

I'm truly humbled.....

((((((((((((Fuzzy)))))))))))) thank you Do you think some of that grace could rub off on me if I rubbed your fuzzy head?

Hey_Hey your spirit makes me fly Can I hang on to your wings until mine heal?

(((((((((((((((mj)))))))))))))) We're old acquantances, but new friends..... understanding is one of the greatest gifts one can give to another.... thank you

heather We've gone toe to toe, I've seen sides of you because of this I don't think I ever would have otherwise.... I have a new respect for you and I do understand your points of view.... It's good we can be honest, isn't it? I hope we can continue to be honest and still have respect for each other... I didn't expect to recieve any kindness from you, that could be why I value it so highly..... (((((((((heather)))))))))

Serenity.... I don't know you well, I've been in my box more or less since you came..... thank you too for your kindess... you've helped me to learn a valuable lesson.... I hope to get the most from it..... I like the eyes (((((((serenity)))))))

Peanut..... What can I say to you dear? You showed some true colors to me in this.... your thoughts and understanding won't be forgotten. I'm with the others... You're a blessing.... if you're old, I'm right behind you at 40..... if our teeth fall out tomorrow, we could still have some of that ice cream couldn't we? I wish I could say more.... I don't want to admit it, but since I'm coming clean, yeah, I did feel a little left out.... but I know I was welcome to join..... part of my defense system.. point out the faults of others instead of facing my own.... The shame I feel can't be spoken... What you said about the exquisite sensitivity... so beautifully put... our shining star and our biggest enemy.... how's that for paradox? ((((((((peanut))))))))

Heidu..... I've read several of your posts. but like serenity, I couldn't reply because of my funk..... I appreciate your sensitivity and kind heart..... In my opinion it takes a huge heart to forgive something like I've done ..... I'm still amazed.... I can't think of anything worse than irresponsibility unless it is stoicism... Balance? (I hear you giggling september Mindfulness is the term I prefer..... ((((((((((((heidu)))))))))))

kvinneakt..... you're something else... I respect your intelligence, candidness, and yeah, your big heart.. is it ok if I don't say I think you're cute though I read heidu was wondering what your name meant.... does it have anything to with a piece of art? You're a splendid person.... I'm glad we're stuck with you (((((((kvinneakt))))))) I havent yet checked the link, but I have a reminder set on it.... I noticed the word "Hindu" in the address... some really great thoughts have come out of the East. How's the finger?

September I feel something cooking.... we both enjoy debate.... While there are some things we disagree on, I'm sure there are many we share too..... I'm not anti-fun, but I can see how you would see it that way.... It was totally inappropriate for me to jump on you guys for this..... but I don't think my thoughts might not totally apply in the right situation... As I tried to explain, and I hope you can understand... it's not what you guys were doing that bothered me... I see it as good fun... more power to you, really, maybe I would join in on a different day..... but what happened is that the laughter "triggered" a buried monster in my life..... not your fault and no one should apologize.... Nothing would make me happier than if you all went back to just being yourselves..... September, I respect you, I look forward to future debates, I think it can be entertaining as well as educating (strange sense of fun I guess) ........ but I hope we can keep our differences in the arena of constructivism (is there such a word? oh, well, I just made it up (((((((((September))))))))))

Yes, America is a great country in many, many ways.... Thank God or Thomas Jefferson, or whoever, we have the freedom of speech even if it is abused by some.... I've worked hard to put my "monster" in its' place.... he just leaked out some there.... I'm very sorry everyone...
(((((((((((((((((((((((((Group Hug))))))))))))))))))))





"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

[heatherm]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{nowheretorun}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

You deserve so much happiness in your life. I am glad we are friends . That took so much courage and strength and we are truly lucky to have you here with us.

Hugs
Heather

<font color=blue>The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the most of everything that comes along their way </font color=blue>

[Peanut61]

Awwwhh, ((((((((((Nowhere))))))))): Thank you for your most eloquent and heartfelt post = I can see that you truly do have a most generous spirit, and I really believe that we are off to a great friendship! Your messages are going to make a lot of people's days today = I know it did mine!! Most fondly, your friend, Peanut

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT </font color=blue>

[kvinneakt]

What a wonderful place this is!

[Serenity]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Nowhere}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Thanks for the post...well thought and planned out.......Come on outta that box some more and say Hiya

<font color=red>Serenity</font color=red>
Its_Jennifer_@hotmail.com

"Open the doors and windows and let your heart breathe" (thank you k )

[mj14]

((((((((((nowheretorun)))))))))))

Some hugs for my new friend. : )

mj

[SeptemberMorn]

Tell me, sir, with what apparatus is it that you can hear me giggle??

I'm amazed... almost speechless, if that's possible for me. Where do I start? Maybe the end would be good cause it's what stands out the most for me. I saw a fuzzy, warm light when I finished your paragraph to me. I've felt "something cooking" since I first read some of your posts. Indeed, we both like debate and there's no reason why we can't keep it constructive and enlightening.

I appreciate very much the fact that you are still sorting through your feelings. Knowledge and self-awareness are gained by that. It doesn't surprise me one bit that you have a monster that was awakened by the laughter that was going on. Maybe someday soon you'll be able to slay him, eh?

I look forward to further exchanges between us.

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[SeptemberMorn]

<center>{{{{{Kvin}}}}}</center>

Now I'm giggling and saying "he's so adorable." LOL That's not usually me, but sometimes, you are so cute, Kvin!! You probably didn't mean it in a cute way because it's the truth, this is a great place, but when you touched my funny bone, I felt like giving you a warm, friendly hug. Thanks for reaching out and touching that spot in my heart!

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[Fuzzybear]

You are most welcome to rub my fuzzy head, Nowhere

I have a "monster" too, who isn't that dissimilar to yours. I have her quite firmly in a box most of the time these days, though, as she can be quite destructive. Not to say that your posts have been destructive, I am really glad that you opened up - that took guts! It's great to be getting to know you better, and I'm really glad you're here!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Nowhere}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Fuzzy
xxx

[SeptemberMorn]

muttering to myself... Dang! I wish I knew what makes one post come out in HUGE font and the next come out tiny!

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[heatherm]

{{{{{{{Tomi}}}}}}}}

I noticed that too on your post....hmmmm ......maybe your Internet options are set for large font?


Heather

[SeptemberMorn]

Heather, they are, but how come the font comes out big sometimes and other times not??? (scratching head)

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[nowheretorun]

(((((((((((September)))))))))

That's exactly what I plan to do.... slay the monster.... but first.. the dam thing is gonna pay me back for all the pain he's caused me

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

[heatherm]

{{{{{{{Nowheretorun}}}}}}}}}

Where are you guys coming up with these terrific quotes???? ... "That's exactly what I plan to do.... slay the monster.... but first.. the dam thing is gonna pay me back for all the pain he's caused me ".......gosh between you and kvinneakt...I feel like I have been given a dose of extra strength today

Thank you


Heather

[SeptemberMorn]

^5 .. Oh, come on, Nowhere! Give me a high five! ^5 There ya go! I'll be rootin' for ya with all my heart! Can I watch? LOL

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[kvinneakt]

Pleased to be of help, my dear.

[nowheretorun]

((((((((((((((((((((September))))))))))))))))))))

I read a different thread and fel so much I just want to help somehow.... you are a terrific lady... speaking of monsters.... I thought I would reply here....

The monster is a good thing.... yes, it has it's ugly side.. yes, until you are ready... you need some control over it....

The monster gives you energy, spirit, dear friends, purpose in life, depth, perception, compassion, anger, fear, confusion, questions, answers, pathways, knowledge, soul......

In short... maybe he's everything about you... he's made you bitter, he's made you love....

Getting paid back by your monster is... using him to your advantage.... taking his power and using it to fight that which created him... he's filled you with heartache... you hate the things he presents to you... he defeats you at times with those things.... but you are stronger than those things sweetie... you have the choice of whether the monster wins, or you win.... you can take his issues to the frontline.... you can battle his issues face to face, hand to hand... you have somethng he doesn't have... a mind, and a heart... love does conquer... you are favored to win.... take those issues he stands for... look 'em right in the eye.... yes, they are ugly... yes, they are scary, yes, they've beaten you before... this is a new battle.... he's crying out to you that these things hurt... when will you do something about them??? Don't bandaid the problem.... don't bury it in wishful thinking.... take up the sword... attack the enemy... the enemy is not the monster.... the enemy is what made the monster.....

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

[SeptemberMorn]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Somewheretorun}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Yes, I changed the name. I hope you don't mind. Your words have given me so much comfort, I can't say it in words. I've been keeping the monster locked up for many years... for as many as my mother has been gone. Well... almost. There was once since then that I allowed myself to be carried off on the wings of fantasy. That's when I put a padlock on the door and barred it. In the process, I became cynical, unbelieving and bitter... towards other's love, anyway. For the most part, I don't want to believe that "true love" exists anymore. Too many people are too self-involved to be willing to give. The only love I dare trust somewhat is the love my grandchildren give me. Kids are so innocent and pure, but in the back of my mind, I know they'll reject me in the end.

If anything, I've learned that I have to find that acceptance, that caring and yes, even love, as ugly and selfish as that sounds, within me for me. People praise me for many reasons. I've learned to accept their words graciously and say "thank you." I don't honestly believe their intentions to the fullest. So many times I've said I wished there was a mirror that someone could stand me in front of and say "see?????" so that I could physically see what they see. How am I to believe them if my own mother didn't see it? She died not knowing me, not knowing who I was... other than her greatest disappointment.

In living my life, I've half-way understood that I am not the bad person she thought I was. I have never been the weakling that could be led with a crook of a finger into things that I knew were not good for me. Yet, whenever "I got into trouble" with my friends, it was never through my instigation. It was always the bad influences I hung around with. If she only knew!! Most of the time it was me that had thought of something clean and fun to do... not filthy and twisted like she always accused me of.

Ahh... "somewhere," you've started something. Enough for now, if you don't mind. This is a deep, dark secret I've been guarding with my life for all my life. "Whoda thunk" I'd be spilling my guts to you. LOL I thought we were going to engage in lively discussions on "semantics" like "balance" and the like. Well... we'll see where this takes us... if it does.

Thanks so much for your courage and heart to address yourself to me in this way. I truly do appreciate it.

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[nowheretorun]

((((((((((((((September))))))))))))))

You can call me what you like.... just don't call me too late

Well, I could just tell by our dynamics something interesting was going to happen....... I'm not enjoying your discomfort anymore than my own.... we can do this together

We can learn this together.... I'm foundering in the dark too.. What say we each start by giving the "monster" a big hug.... I know mine has been waiting a long time... I see him more as an ally now... with him I have the information (some of it), the passion, and the energy to take down those conditions that allowed him to rise... let's just try to give it shape for now... As for myself, that's partly the reason I'm in school, to learn the skills and knowledge to better prepare for the big war... it's gonna take some time... but for me anyway, I think I'm doing this right. You know, it's funny, these past few days, my monsters image has changed from being evil and wreckless to being more of a cartoon dragon.. with tiny little wings on a huge body... he's kinda cute really He needs my help, and I need his...... I feel like I've made a friend

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

[heidu]

September,
The one thing that stuck out for me is:
"She died not knowing me. "
She didnt' know you and you have seen in your life that you have learned she was wrong. It wasn't your choice that she didn't know you. I am sure like most children, you wanted the uncondistional love and support that a mother is "supposed" to give. Your mother wasn't able to give that but that is a reflection on her mistakes not yours.
Those positive things people say about you....I bet they are true. Like you said "Too many people are too self-involved to be willing to give" So if they give a little by telling you somethiing good about yourself than it's most likely true. I bet you can look at yourself and find many wonderfuo qualities if you allow yourself to see and believe it.
I have wished 1000 times that my mother knew the real me. She never will because she doesn't want to. That is her choice, not mine. In the end, it's her loss and her mistake.

Sorry to interupt this cnversation between you and somewhere. I felt such warmth and caring when I read it. I have great respect for what somewhere says and also you. I look forward to reading the dialog between you two!
Heidu

Every path to a new understanding begins in confusion- Mason Cooley

[SeptemberMorn]

<center>{{{{{{{{{Somewhere}}}}}}}}}}</center>

Where I come from the saying is "Just don't call me late for dinner."

On this issue, you are farther ahead than me. At least your dragon has shape and a name. Since I read my mother's journals, I've quickly turned my head in order to not see the dragon. I would imagine that he's quite horrifying with nasty things sticking out of him ready to jab, cut and make me bleed. But, as you offered, if you stand behind me, I'll try to take some quick looks at it and either give it shape of give it a name.

I can see your dragon, the way you discribe him. hehe He is kinda cute, isn't he? He wouldn't happen to be purple, would he?

Just as a point of reference: "What say we each start by giving the "monster" a big hug.... I know mine has been waiting a long time... " In my lingo, the way I have identified facets of myself, I would identify this part of you as your wounded inner child. You might call it pshycho-babble. But I've seen "my wounded inner child" at different ages. The abused three year old, the broken eight year old, and the hypervigilant, combative if the need arises, teenager. You felt the point of her sword the other day, and for that I'm sorry, but very glad that instead of fighting back, you came back with open arms. It's incredible to me!

There is still quite a bit of reticence in looking at that monster, in trusting you, etc., so please be patient with me, ok?

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[SeptemberMorn]

<center>{{{{{{{{Heidu}}}}}}}}}</center>

You are not interrupting the conversation. Didn't you say the "What is love?" post opened a "big ugly" for you, too? Perhaps the three of us can help each other on this road to recovery. Of course, you're free to partake in any way you choose.

Yes, "somewhere's" caring has struck me, too. When I first came to this board and read some of his posts, I immediately felt respect for him. (Somewhere, are you reading? ) We won't go into the dynamics for now, but no doubt, it will become obvious in time.

Your quote: "She died not knowing me." and "It wasn't your choice that she didn't know you." Maybe this is the crux of the matter. This is what causes me the greatest pain. The lack of validation from the one person that was meant to give it, the one validation not received that has affect every aspect of my life. It's been impossible for me to phathom the depth and width of that lack. I know what I'm supposed to do, I know how I'm supposed to do it, but I'm terrified to come face to face with that dragon.

{{{{{Heidu}}}}} if there is anyway for you to face your dragon before it's too late, before you can no longer speak to your mother, do it. Do it soon. It's much easier while they are still alive. At least you know you gave it a good effort. I have no one I can confront and say "Look at me! Look at my accomplishments! They are ME, they are MINE! At least have the faith in yourself to see that I did learn what you tried to teach me!"

Well... it seems I've taken a longer look at my dragon than I have before. I owe it to you "Somewhere" and to you Heidu. (gentle smile)

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[heidu]

September,
I felt the same thing when I read nowheres posts. Respect.
I have faced my dragon the best I can. There is nothing I can do to change my mother. She is who she is. There is nothing I can say that will make her understand. She isn't open to that. It's like a dog chasing it's tale.
I dealt with it by accepting it. Sometimes that's all you can do. She is who she is but I am me. It's what I think that in the end matters. We have to make our own decisions in our life and we have to deal with the consequences good or bad. We learn and grow from our mistakes just as much as from our accomplishments if we choose too.
If I do something and I am proud or happy or feel as though I have made the right choice than that is what matters. It isn't anyones place to judge me and tell me what is right and wrong for me. Of course someone can make a suggestion if they see I am taking the wrong path and I respect that (eventually).
The lack of validation you want is from the one person who couldn't and/or wouldn't. You deserved better than that.
Instead of looking for someone to say "look at me" "look at my accomplsihments" look for yourself. Be good enough for yourself. If you are living your life the way you think you should be living, just what you think and no elses opinions of what you should do or be, then you have accomplished alot.
When my mom would say things that hurt I would try to step back and say "how do I feel". Do I feel that it isn't good enough, do I feel I am making the wrong choice? Most of the time I found that I was happy with what I was doing. Heck, all the time. So, away with the doubts and away with the second guessing. I was being me and that was good.
So, I guess acceptance was my key. I can't change her but I also don't have to live by her rules. I don't have to feel less. I am happy with my choices. Of course I have made some mistakes and some pretty bad ones but I am human.
When I kicked my first husband out of the house because he started drinking again and that just made a bad marriage worse she was SO mad at me and told me that I need to go and tell him to come home. She was ready for a fight from me. I simply and calmly said "this is my decision and I am doing what I think is best for me". She didn't know what to do but she had nothing more to say. When I packed up my life and moved to Norway she wasn't happy about it. She had only met my husband to be for 45 minutes because when he came to visit me for a week she wouldn't see him. She was still waiting for me to call my ex and tell him to come home. I simply said "we are here and I would like you to meet him." eventually she came around but I hadn't given in to her demands. I refuse to let her get to me. Oh, she still does sometimes but then I make a call and talk to someone about it and soon it passes.
I am sad things can't be different. There are so many things my mother doesnt know about me and I would love to share them with her but it will never happen. I accept that.
I put my dragon neatly on a shelf where he can see me. I know he is always there and always will be but he also knows that I am better then him and I can kick his ***** again if I have to.
Think about your life. Are you happy with your choices? Not what she thought but what You thought and wanted. Maybe there are some things you still would like to do in your life, your not dead yet sweetie, you can do them.
There's a place for your dragon next to mine. (they are all talk you know and not that hard to beat up). He could use the company, I don't talk much to him anymore.
A big hug to you,
Heidu

Every path to a new understanding begins in confusion- Mason Cooley

[nowheretorun]

((((((((((((((September))))))))))))

You're taking a brave step in looking at the dragon, I know for some time I did my best to ignore him and change him, and deny him... but dang, he is me, I am him. I cut so much of myself out of my life in denying him... I channeled all my negativity into him... no wonder he hurt so much... in return he was the little boy looking back at me with the tears in his eyes I wouldn't let myself cry... so he pushed me deeper and deeper into despair... trying to get noticed? For so long I hated him, but I didn't realize I was hating myself. All I knew was I carried this thick tarry black thing in the center of my heart. I countered by trying to see the bright side of things, I tried to ignore anything negative... but it didn't work. It seemed the harder I worked to make it go away, the stronger it became. I drank, I partied, I tried to run away. Everywhere I went, it followed.

I can so relate to what you said about your mother judging you as a bad person... My mom and I get along pretty well now most days... For awhile I felt like I was nothing but a failure and burden on her life. I did'nt get mad at her for her thoughts. I thought she was right, I was out of control.. but I didn't want to be... I ran with the wrong crowds too... I always had an image in my mind of clean fun, but somehow it didn't work out that way... I think this is why I have such a hangup about fun still... making progress here?

My mom and I have worked things out for the most part... she finally realized how I felt, and I put myself in her shoes a little... it wasn't easy being a single mom of three.. she had to work two jobs to make ends meet... on top of that, she was in a car crash very young that crippled her for life.. she refuses to get a wheel chair and has used cruthes for over 20 years... her feet get swollen with blood and twist at a strange angle... she refuses to go back in the hospital after being in traction 6 months... I can appreciate her strength now that I'm older....

I can apprciate that you need to take your time with this... it is perhaps the biggest fight either of us will ever face... I'm trying not to see it as a fight though... instead, it is the road to freedom with a shining light at the end...

I can't tell you how to make friends with your dragon... I see what you mean that they have a resemblance to different stages of our life.. maybe unresolved issues at different crossroads... me when mom and dad divorced... me when dad remarried.. me when I shuffled between families.. me when I was happy at school... me when dad turned me out... me when I drank to much to forget... me when I tried to recover... me when I saw the ocean the first time... at some point the dragon became seperate... he bagan to be my funnel for all my bad feelings... but he's still me.

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

[nowheretorun]

Heidu

Thank you for the compliment made my day brighter... I think highly of you as well.

You're not interrupting, your observations are bright and valuable. Can't have too many perspectives can we?

It sounds as if your parental issues are what they are and you're ok with that... my dragon isn't about my parents either.. well, I guess you have a good idea what it is about... but I think your words to September are valuable.... join in as much as you like And anyone else for that matter.

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius