[KazzaX]

I've had severe depression for 19 years. I've done every treatment known to man - meds, a bunch of different therapies, healthy self-care, the works. None have had any effect (well some meds did for a few weeks before wearing off). The therapies have all ended when the therapists got frustrated with me and put me in the "too hard" basket. It is really frustrating. I'm 30 now and I can truely say that I wish I had never been born - what a waste. I have a degree and all that jazz but when you are this mentally ill, it amounts to nothing - other than a huge debt ofcourse!

So I'm with this therapist right now. She is my last chance at therapy - where I live if you are on government assistance then the only therapy you can afford is through the community mental health scheme. So if she puts me into "the basket" then that's it for me - no more therapy. Unfortunately she has given up too but has yet to terminate my sessions (she will soon though - they all follow the same script when he comes to this). I figure I have about 3-4 sessions more before she terminates me.

What am I doing wrong??? I have done therapy BY THE BOOK - been proactive, taken control of my sessions, worked hard between sessions, bring in lists of stuff to talk about that I think might be relevant, everything! But all it ever does is make them angry. I do all the things that a responsible person should do whilst in therapy and they always get angry! I am perfectly willing to take what I learnt in there and apply it to my life outside of the session. But instead all the therapists do is get angry at me. I have no idea why - I am trying to do the right thing! Then when I ask (after 6 months or so) about my lack of progress, they say I am just not trying hard enough. WTF!!

I am THIS close --| |-- to saying "stuff it" and just stopping all treatment altogether. Stop all the treatment and let the chips fall where they may. I am sick to death of these "therapists" and their hypocrisy - I do all the right things and suddenly I have a "bad attitude". Is it REALLY that hard to say "look, I don't think I have the resources to assist you, so let me refer you to soandso who I think would be more appropriate" ??? Is it really that hard? Really? I used to LOVE the concept of therapy - I used to want to BE a therapist. Now that I have actually BEEN to therapy, that has all changed. Oh yeah - that has completely changed.

[venusss]

Well, what is the reason you feel depressed? And don't say you "just do". Did you have losses, misfortunes, dreams that did not come true?

Is there something you can "do"? And I don't mean therapy. YOu say you have degree. You probably have some talents and passion - maybe you can do something in this direction to give yourself some sense of purpose and all? I think often even good therapy is too narrowly focused. And if you do stuff as homework from therapy and as homework only.... it's not the same as the "wow" enlightement you get.

Have you tried NOT to focus on your well-being but just going with it?

[madisgram]

first thought is for you to print out your post and take it for your next session. your therapist can read it/discuss. the next thought is for you to get on a feeling level and share with your T how you feel about your post and things that bother or frustrate you. next, list things that trouble you in between sessions. carry your list with you to jot down those things as they happen. also write down what causes you to feel depressed.
my T once told me i "owned" my therapy not him. it was up to me to use my session wisely...difficult at first but easier in time. if i didn't bring things to the "table" i was wasting my time and T couldn't help me.
i hope this may help you.

Originally Posted by KazzaX

I've had severe depression for 19 years. I've done every treatment known to man - meds, a bunch of different therapies, healthy self-care, the works. None have had any effect (well some meds did for a few weeks before wearing off).

Have you tried mood stabilisers? They are often used for treatment-resistant depression, and the fact that antidepressants poop out on you indicates that these type of meds may be the way to go. Check out psycheducation.org for more info if you're interested. It explains about all the different mood stabilisers and the soft signs that mood stabilisers may be the way to go medication-wise.

Other than that I know how hard it is to be depressed and trying meds and therapies and being dumped by therapists who get frustrated they can't help and make it all the client's fault *sigh* I second taking your post to your next session and trying to work through this, but also think about the meds thing if you haven't tried mood stabilisers before (without antidepressants).

All the best,

*Willow*

[KazzaX]

Yeah I have been on mood stabilizers, antipsychotics, ADs, all of that stuff. Lots of combinations! Some of the antipsychotics are good for my anger but nothing seems to touch the depression.

The reason I'm depressed is (according to the Ts) that I was emotionally abused as a child. I don't know that i agree with that, maybe, not sure. But it is the only explanation that comes close. I never suffered any traumas or huge disappointments in my life - I was depressed from the word go really. My family was a bit bizarre but I dunno about emotionally abusive. I went with that for a while but then I noticed that all the therapists that have given up on me ended up saying the same things as my family did. So if the Ts are saying it too - then it can't be emotional abuse! If it isn't, then I would say it's probably just some sort of biological thing. I have no idea really. I never really had any dreams or hopes or aspirations so it definitely wasnt the loss of those.

I am very limited as to what I can do outside of therapy. I cannot shower or wash my clothes or any of that stuff, and i can only manage to leave the house once a week (to go to therapy). I have been trying to think of stuff i could do here at home but I have no idea really. I tried doing meditation, arty kinda stuff and mindfulness with no luck (I did them over a long period of time).

The depression I feel is not due to a particular reason (eg if someone said something bad about me behind my back or something like that). It is an all-encompassing depression that its like a dark cloud over every single aspect of my life. It has been there for 20 years this year. It started off mild when I was about 10-11ish but over the years progressively became worse, and that's how I got to be in this predicament today. Its been a steady systematic decline over the years.

[IceCreamKid]

I hope you find this helpful. If your therapists say your depression is rooted in childhood abuse, but you think that is iffy, then have you suggested to the therapists "ok, but let's set that aside and focus on the now; I want to be well enough to take a shower"? If you have a chronic depressive mood, then have any of your therapists worked with you on how to live with a chronic depressive mood? Maybe we are not all designed to be blissfully happy, happy every moment of the day. For me, my depression is rooted in my childhood, but regardless, even when I am not seriously depressed, I am just not the giddy 'bubbly' type so many people expect women to be. It occurs to me, too, that if you have to energy to type out well-written posts in communication with others, then you do have the energy to take a shower. Have you ever had ECT? I understand it is out of favor now, but perhaps it is worth asking the doctor about. Finally, I can't help but think that depression can in some ways become a bad habit; if that is true, then it can be mitigated or broken.

[venusss]

I am very limited as to what I can do outside of therapy. I cannot shower or wash my clothes or any of that stuff, and i can only manage to leave the house once a week (to go to therapy). I have been trying to think of stuff i could do here at home but I have no idea really. I tried doing meditation, arty kinda stuff and mindfulness with no luck (I did them over a long period of time).

Sometimes you have to push yourself a bit... and it gets better from there.

And back to what I mentioned in my other post. Don't do thinks with "if I do this I feel better", just do them because you want to do them.... try to look for some passion, surely there must be something. Maybe something to look into in therapy?

You are still young. Still have time for hopes and dreams and all that. Look for good omens. I agree depression can be lived with... your mood might be slightly bellow normal person's baseline for a lot of time, but that does not mean you will never enjoy life.

[-jimi-]

You're depressed and then you are being emotionally abused in therapy. Sorry. You don't need that. If a patient doesn't get better, it is too easy for the therapist to blame the patient. Like that is going to help.

You have the right to interpret your own childhood. If you don't think it was the cause of depression, then you actually could be right. They are grasping for straws trying to find a reason to the point they create a reason.

We're not all born the same. Some people are actually born with a sensitivity to mood problems. I don't know how many meds you tried, but I tried a lot and the ones working were far down the list unfortunately. Maybe you need to spend your time with a good doctor finding a new med, instead of wasting time on a therapist that only makes you mad?

[-jimi-]

Pushing is really hard with severe depression. When I was there I had no energy at all. It was like I was sick and demented. Yea I pushed and pushed hard and no one saw it. But thing is what I pushed for was getting out of bed, into a chair, going to the bathroom, eating, keeping myself alive. People think those things take no energy. How wrong they are. So yea, I really worked hard and no one saw it, I was just "lazy" although, comparing to now, just eating and going to the bathroom was harder then than a full day at work is today.

So people can sure stuff it.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by jimrat

Pushing is really hard with severe depression. When I was there I had no energy at all. It was like I was sick and demented. Yea I pushed and pushed hard and no one saw it. But thing is what I pushed for was getting out of bed, into a chair, going to the bathroom, eating, keeping myself alive. People think those things take no energy. How wrong they are. So yea, I really worked hard and no one saw it, I was just "lazy" although, comparing to now, just eating and going to the bathroom was harder then than a full day at work is today.

So people can sure stuff it.

*shrugs*

what is the other solution? Stay in bed and give up? Life is hard. I doubt it is supereasy for anybody.

It's hard to get out of the rut, but you have to push yourself out of there (even if others offer a helping hand)... nobody is gonna come and drag you out, sorry to say. It is possible to do though and it is worth it.

[-jimi-]

I couldn't and without meds I wouldn't have had a life today.

I tried and I wanted to. I just couldn't. I think it's probably hard for someone to fathom those depths of depression, but you only have one brain. You don't have one external brain to tell you what to do and a sick one to follow. You only have one. If it can't tell this from that, how can you do anything right?

No one can take away the pride I have for surviving. I doubt many people would have survived what I did. If I could have pushed harder, I would have.

I'm not a weak person. I just had a huge problem. (No, life isn't easy for anyone, it's not for me still. Yet I'm so much better off. I can function. Then, I couldn't even count to 20 and I didn't know where I lived..... )

Who is going to drag you out of bed you ask? Well.. people who totally lack help in that situation I was in.. they don't get better because they "have to". I know that is a grim thought, but it's true.

Originally Posted by KazzaX

Yeah I have been on mood stabilizers, antipsychotics, ADs, all of that stuff. Lots of combinations! Some of the antipsychotics are good for my anger but nothing seems to touch the depression.

The reason I'm depressed is (according to the Ts) that I was emotionally abused as a child. I don't know that i agree with that, maybe, not sure. But it is the only explanation that comes close. I never suffered any traumas or huge disappointments in my life - I was depressed from the word go really. My family was a bit bizarre but I dunno about emotionally abusive. I went with that for a while but then I noticed that all the therapists that have given up on me ended up saying the same things as my family did. So if the Ts are saying it too - then it can't be emotional abuse! If it isn't, then I would say it's probably just some sort of biological thing. I have no idea really. I never really had any dreams or hopes or aspirations so it definitely wasnt the loss of those.

I am very limited as to what I can do outside of therapy. I cannot shower or wash my clothes or any of that stuff, and i can only manage to leave the house once a week (to go to therapy). I have been trying to think of stuff i could do here at home but I have no idea really. I tried doing meditation, arty kinda stuff and mindfulness with no luck (I did them over a long period of time).

The depression I feel is not due to a particular reason (eg if someone said something bad about me behind my back or something like that). It is an all-encompassing depression that its like a dark cloud over every single aspect of my life. It has been there for 20 years this year. It started off mild when I was about 10-11ish but over the years progressively became worse, and that's how I got to be in this predicament today. Its been a steady systematic decline over the years.

It is possible for Ts to be emotionally abusive as they are humans too so don't discount childhood abuse just for that reason. That being said, if you don't feel comfortable with that label, then don't wear it. I've had Ts mention emotional abuse before and I've brushed it off "it wasn't *that* bad..." - not sure if that's true or not as I tend to minimise things but what does it matter. Right now the focus is on coping with day-to-day life.

In a typical day I force myself to:
- walk the dog (which gets me out of the house, which is hard, and exercising)
- try to study/read a book
- do something I used to enjoy even though I don't enjoy it anymore e.g. card making, colouring (very soothing IMO)
- and spend time with others, even if it's only coming out of my bedroom for dinner with my family
All of those things are 'good for me' and so I try to make myself do them everyday. Doesn't happen every day, but most days I can manage most of them. Maybe start your own list, then pick one thing and build on it?

I know someone else mentioned ECT and that sounds kinda scary, but I've seen it done (I was a medical student) and it's not so bad and it works! I'm keeping it in reserve, and I would say that 20 years of severe depression with all the combinations of meds you've tried and therapy means that it may be time to consider it with your pdoc?

Originally Posted by jimrat

Pushing is really hard with severe depression. When I was there I had no energy at all. It was like I was sick and demented. Yea I pushed and pushed hard and no one saw it. But thing is what I pushed for was getting out of bed, into a chair, going to the bathroom, eating, keeping myself alive. People think those things take no energy. How wrong they are. So yea, I really worked hard and no one saw it, I was just "lazy" although, comparing to now, just eating and going to the bathroom was harder then than a full day at work is today.

So people can sure stuff it.

I agree jimrat. There are different degrees of depression and, unless you've been to this level (quoted above), I think it's hard to understand. Yes you have to push yourself, but if pushing yourself is going to the toilet instead of wetting yourself then IMO you *have* pushed yourself, and people calling you "lazy" (which I get all the freaking time) just makes you feel worse.

*Willow*

[dazeofdolphins]

Two thoughts: A client who experiences repeated burn-out by their therapists is usually diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, not depression. I wrote a thesis on this very issue. Secondly, if you have a diagnosis of BPD, then meds don't typically help. There are no meds that treat BPD. Meds can treat your symptoms, not your diagnosis. If you do have BPD, then it is very likely that you experience a lot of anger, even rage. This can scare people away, even therapists. Maybe the focus of treatment should shift to your anger. Fact: in many cases, depression has it's roots in anger. The emotions are like cousins. Lastly, BPD is a developmental disorder. Every case of BPD I have seen is directly linked to trauma that occurred between the ages of 1 and 1/2 and 3 years old. Lots of times, clients don't have any memory of the trauma. Unfortunately, most therapists are not trained to work with BPD and so they get burned out quickly. Maybe you should ask your T if she has experience with BPD. You could also ask her if she is up for the challenge. If so, you two could create a contract of sorts where you agree to work together for a certain period of time. That would also be a good time to come up with rules that you would both agree to. Then, after X number of months you re-evaluate the work and set up a new contract. This is just an idea. And, finally, you might want to read a short paperbook called "I hate you, don't leave me". I think you would get a lot out of the book. Good luck with your situation. I don't know you but I believe in you

[-jimi-]

I've had a hard time with therapists and doctors and I'm NOT BPD. Sometimes I get angry when they don't help like they should or act in a terrible manner. Anger justified.

I don't know about the OP, but treatment resistant depression without BPD is totally possible. Some people just don't have the right body chemistry for the most common meds. I know I don't but I found a med fitting me finally!!!

[KazzaX]

Hiyas, sorry I didn't reply for so long. I write posts like this and am too embarrassed to come back for a long time to read the replies. But I finally got the guts and here I am.

This is me optimally medicated. Without meds i am even more of a nutbag. So they technically do help to a small degree. If I wasn't on them I am 100% sure I would be dead. It is amazing that with my life is like this and I don't want to die. I want so badly to recover. And all I ever get from anyone is "you aren't trying hard enough" or "it didn't work because you did it wrong" or whatever. I am trying my freaking heart out. I am tired of all the finger pointing. Why can't people see that it doesn't matter whose fault it is, I just want the damn problem fixed (so to speak). I am well aware that I need to do the work, but how can I when I don't know what work it is that i need to do????? And if I ask the therapist, then I am labelled as "lazy, and has a bad attitude" ? I asked her this. She did not respond. Neither did the last one before her. Must be a question that is out of bounds. Maybe I am too blunt. But I don't believe in sugar coating things - I get straight to the point.

BTW I was assessed for a personality disorder but although I had traits, I didn't have enough to qualify as having a personality disorder. Apparently everyone has traits, its pretty normal. I did sign up for an email DBT course though. It had some helpful things in it. I keep them in case I may need some of those tools some time. Where I live (Irequested ECT at the local hospital) they do not give you ECT unless you are nearly catatonic - ie don't eat, dont sleep, don't respond to anything. I'm not quite there yet - maybe one day, at this rate, haha.

I've seen a couple of Ts who've gotten frustrated with me (and maybe themselves?) because I haven't made any progress. I wonder if it touches on their need to help and so when they don't they feel insecure about their T abilities and so blame me for it. I can understand that, but it doesn't hurt any less at the time.

I'm sorry you can't see a way forward at the moment. It's a shame meds only help a bit and ECT isn't an option. I would try another T though. You deserve a T that doesn't take everything personally and with work WITH YOU to find a way through this.

All the best KazzaX

*Willow*

[-jimi-]

Blaming the patient is pretty stupid. Even with physical illness someone can do everything by the book and not get well. It is the nature of things. We don't yet have the treatment to fit exactly everyone.

[KazzaX]

Well she did say right on my first appointment "some people aren't ready to recover" so maybe that is me. That is the only thing I can come up with. I want to get better, I want it really badly. But maybe that isn't enough. Maybe when the sun lines up with jupiter and aries is the active constellation, then I will be ready. Joking.