[Blueberrybook]

PMS equals water weight gain...lovely! I know it's just water weight, but I hate it all the same

[MuddyBoots]

I tried upping my calories today on my meal plan and adding more fiber (been really trying to focus on potassium and protein because those are always my lowest labs), ended up not being able to follow it. Like, badly. Instead of breakfast, lunch, and dinner, I just had half my breakfast and the rest for dinner. And dinner I usually have around 5:30pm but just finished nearly 2 hours later. Just wasn’t feeling it.

Tomorrow’s a new day and an easier plan to follow. Part of my conditions of release and not going back on an IEA involve making and following a healthy meal plan. I wonder how far off I have to deviate from it to have to go back because at first just plain ole didn’t make one, then kept making a bunch and not knowing what I did with them (probably got stressed, dissociated, and tossed them all and just don’t remember), and now I have one, keep it in a safe place, and can’t follow it for two days.

It’s not even like it’s a « recovery » meal plan, it’s just a «probably shouldn’t die in the next few months eating like this, but will probably continue to lose weight just not at insane rates now» plan. I bet if I I could say what was on most days on here, I would get chastised especially considering I walk everywhere I go within a 4 mile distance (or 10 if I lnow I can get a ride back) and am not much of a homebody.

[Blueberrybook]

@MuddyBoots - Walking 4-10 mi IS a form of purging just as vomiting you know if you are not eating adequate calories. That is the way I got diagnosed with anorexia - purging type. I never binged, just didn't eat enough to sustain the amt. of exercise I was doing and so dropped WAY below a BMI of 18, lost my period for a year, started losing hair, nearly/actually fainting. It is hard on your body as like vomiting especially in regards to injurty & osteopenia and imbalance of electrolytes and difiiculty sleeping (sleep suffers under lack of adequate calories). And I developed weird habits, hoarding food under my bed, going to grocery stores wandering around for hours then buying something ridiculously "safe" like a couple of small apples. All from purging through exercise.

BUT I came back from a low, low very low weight (should have been in an ED treatment program) on my own using CBT/DBT (didn't know it was called that at the time but that's what it was).

It IS actually possible to reverse ED behavior on your own without waiting for an ED group. Do you actually have a T, especially one familiar with an ED? Can you get a dietician? Of, and this is very strange, hypnosis actually helped me though I was ready for recovery by that time. But hypnosis can't make you do anything you are not ready/willing to do on your own.

If you go into ED treatment unready to recover, well then, you will reverse it all when you get out. I have heard SO many stories to that effect over the years.

[MuddyBoots]

But it's not like there's a ton of elevation gain. I mean, before things got bad again I'd do hikes that are 4 miles one way with 3,000ft of climbing (then go back down) like nothing, so a couple hours around the city because I have no other way of going places other than taking the bus (which is money) and because I'll get so much pent up energy if I do literally nothing all day I'll go fking insane.

I think that's partly why I kinda like the ED, I have less energy overall and it only takes a bit of walking to not feel like I'm going to explode instead of having to do 10K runs and constantly be doing this that and the other thing and 5 minutes of being forced to be patient would drive this gal insane. I've been quieter lately, not having to run outside to scream just to get it out, not interrupting people when they talk, not cussing loudly every time something falls, not rambling for hours about 100 topics. Hell, that's probably why my case manager keeps saying "I sound so much better." Because I'm not myself.

I have a therapist but I don't even know what we do in there. Can't get a dietician (I'm still waiting on a GI referral for after telling my PCP I'm crying from pain every time I eat a normal-sized meal and am throwing up more blood than usual afterwards) from over a month ago. I can't even get Zofran packaged in a way I can open when I need it ffs. I had to fight for months to get my insurance to cover dozens of thousands of dollars worth of hepatitis meds (which was just one round of treatment).

I actually might be able to get a dietician, but probably not. My last labs were "normal," I have to be referred or pay out of pocket and I don't think my PCP gives a damn enough (I forget which scale they used, but while at the hospital the nutritionist gave me a 2 on the malnutrition scale and the highest it goes is 5 so I doubt that meets whatever bs criteria they use to see if a referral is warranted), and I ain't paying hundreds of dollars for a doc to tell me in 15 minutes to eat more (of this and that). I already know what healthy eating looks like, I just don't because (in case anyone hasn't noticed) I have very minimal will to live or life-preservation instinct, definitely not enough to outweigh the chronic passive/frequently active suicidal ideation.

[Blueberrybook]

But do you know what healthy eating looks like getting ENOUGH calories for your body without purging them (vomiting, exercise, laxatives, etc.)?

4 mi with no elevation is still work and still purging. If you power walk it, you will get it in around 1 hr. which is more exercise than you need at this point. I exercise on flat, flat, FLAT land and still burn a lot of calories if I walk 4 mi and need to eat extra to make up for it. If I walk longer than 4 mi. I need to eat beyond extra, 2500 cal + per day to just maintain my weight. And this is all power walking on flat land (albeit warm 80F+ with high humidity, often around 80%).

[Autumn88]

Pent up rage, pent up frustrating tears I am desperately needing to let out for that so cleansing catharsis...

This is, pardon the pun, a " recipe" for restriction, which I acted upon this morning as I mentioned in my other nonsensical post.

Forgive me for flooding the board.

Longing for connection.

Take good care everyone.

[MuddyBoots]

Yeah. I know what it is I just don't do it because I don't see the point, but what I'm saying is walking 4 miles shouldn't really be considered "excessive exercise" because that's a daily minimum just to get my meds in the morning and take a trip to the library, then I get to do more walking should I want to see people or hang out at the park or have another appointment, etc. I really can't stand being inside alone all the time, and I need my meds, so I'm not going to sit in this room all day every day.

There's a different motivation behind it. Purging is done with intent for compensatory behaviors for eating so as to not gain weight. If I said "I have to burn calories" and power walked 10 miles just to get 10 miles in, yeah, sure, that's purging. If I did a ton of exercise because that's an additional way to lose weight quicker, yeah, sure, that's purging.

I don't think picking up my meds, going to the library, going to the store, going to sit on a bench at a park and read, etc. and doing what I can to keep myself from getting cabin fever the only way I can most days should be considered part of disordered eating. Cleaning burns calories, if I don't live like a slob because I like to eat off clean dishes and not sleep in the days' dirt, is that purging too? Playing violin I'm sure burns more calories than sitting doing nothing, is that purging? I thought all this time it was a healthy coping skill, guess not. Brain uses a lot of fat when it's working hard and I've been reviewing finding definite integrals by using Riemann sums and taking the limit as n->infinity, was that more disordered eating? What about when my back hurts from the scoliosis and metal chair combo and do some stretching? More disordered eating behaviors? Where do you cross the line? Does everyone who restricts purge through exercise every day they don't lie in bed and do nothing?

If anyone wants to buy me a car and help me get a city parking permit (I heard they're a bytch to get), go right ahead.

[MuddyBoots]

Originally Posted by Autumn88

Pent up rage, pent up frustrating tears I am desperately needing to let out for that so cleansing catharsis...

This is, pardon the pun, a " recipe" for restriction, which I acted upon this morning as I mentioned in my other nonsensical post.

Forgive me for flooding the board.

Longing for connection.

Take good care everyone.

Welcome to the forums, @Autumn88. Don't feel bad about flooding the board. You can let it all out here when you need, just try to keep being respectful

[Autumn88]

Thank you for your reassurance and support @MuddyBoots.

I appreciate a caring voice right now.

Hope you are holding steady.

[Blueberrybook]

I get not wanting to be cooped up inside all the time, and if walking is what you have to do to get place to place then I suppose it would fall under exercise unless you are walking more than 4 mi daily, that's a bit excessive to just be considered what you need to do to get by. I think there is a fine line between exercise vs. purging exercise and it's different for everyone. I mean, if I walked 4 mi to get places, it would be purging for me as I have a car and secondly, the only place I can easily walk to is Walgreens (which is like a quarter mile at most). There are no sidewalks, no bus stops, etc as walking places is not encouraged around here. If I walk 4 miles, it's exercise for me simply because I wouldn't be going anywhere except all over my suburb, and if I didn't eat enough calories to support that it would be purging. I don't know if that makes sense? Have you ever consulted a dietician as to how many calories you need to eat daily? It works out differently for everyone depending on your activity level and if you need to gain weight, lose, or maintain.

@Autumn88 Welcome!

[Autumn88]

Well.

Lunchtime came.

Stared at it.

And then, ALL of it, even the two " safe foods" were forbidden.

Sick and twisted.

Wanted to cry looking at what I am supposed to consume.

Numbed out though.

But for feeling in control, having autonomy, feeling that sick familiar sense of being strong, powerful, and...( this so evil of me)...superior to all those eating their lunches and snacks, while I simply refuse.

At the same time envy them...they eat as though it is the most natural thing in the world.
And of course logically I know that it is...and yet this illness of mine tells me it is wrong, and I am falling into the head space where I feel " purified" when I do not eat ...

Alright sorry to go on and on ..

Thank you for reading if you have. ..

[Blueberrybook]

Originally Posted by Autumn88

Well.

But for feeling in control, having autonomy, feeling that sick familiar sense of being strong, powerful, and...( this so evil of me)...superior to all those eating their lunches and snacks, while I simply refuse.
. ..

I definitely can relate to this feeling, I experienced it so much. That and (also terrible of me) feeling superior to overweight people just because I was thin/underweight/downright emaciated. It's so sick, so twisted.

[Autumn88]

Thank you for your reply @Blueberrybook.

I am so sorry that you sadly relate so well.

Yes indeed, it is sick and twisted.

I know this, but I appear to be back in the vortex...

Thank you for caring .

[MuddyBoots]

Originally Posted by Blueberrybook

I get not wanting to be cooped up inside all the time, and if walking is what you have to do to get place to place then I suppose it would fall under exercise unless you are walking more than 4 mi daily, that's a bit excessive to just be considered what you need to do to get by. I think there is a fine line between exercise vs. purging exercise and it's different for everyone. I mean, if I walked 4 mi to get places, it would be purging for me as I have a car and secondly, the only place I can easily walk to is Walgreens (which is like a quarter mile at most). There are no sidewalks, no bus stops, etc as walking places is not encouraged around here. If I walk 4 miles, it's exercise for me simply because I wouldn't be going anywhere except all over my suburb, and if I didn't eat enough calories to support that it would be purging. I don't know if that makes sense? Have you ever consulted a dietician as to how many calories you need to eat daily? It works out differently for everyone depending on your activity level and if you need to gain weight, lose, or maintain.

@Autumn88 Welcome!

I get that intentionally overexercising to lose weight is purging, yeah, but I don't get why walking to enjoy being outside and not go insane is purging just because I'm restricting my calorie intake. Like if I didn't restrict I wouldn't be "purging" even though I'd be doing the same thing, that's what I don't get. So I'm wondering what the difference is between walking and ANY activity that burns calories (cleaning, cooking, studying, shoveling snow, playing instruments some to a greater extent than others) and does, say, playing a tuba count as purging just because the tuba player hasn't eaten enough to maintain their weight lately?

Before ADHD meds, I'd bounce my legs and do other fidgety stuff an insane amount and was absolutely incapable of sitting still for five minutes, does that count as purging if it was on a day I didn't eat as many calories as I burned if I wasn't supposed to lose weight at that time?

I get if I suddenly took up HIIT, running, or whatever again that would count, or if I went for actual hikes on days I didn't nourish enough to do it safely thinking "this is a good way to lose weight," but I feel like me checking out a hidden gem park I never went to today, going down the trail, sitting on a bench for a bit to watch the brook, and coming back wasn't purging.

I looked up definitions of purging, and it says "excessive exercise," but can't find a clarification of what this means. I understand I'm probably burning more than I'm eating most days and the word "excessive" probably means exercising to a point your calorie deficit is more than it should be (and right now I probably shouldn't be at a deficit at all), but as someone who used to be able to trail run The Pemi Loop without stopping to sleep at one point, I have a hard time grasping that walking to get my meds, coming back, and then walking back for an appointment and back is "excessive exercise" now-- especially when I only once felt physically unwell in the past week (since discharge), and I wasn't even walking beyond my med run and going to the laundry room or community room that day.

I hate that my best coping skill, like the reason I haven't murdered certain people or committed arson or am dead from drug/alcohol abuse or suicide by now or been kicked out of this apartment for freaking out daily, and the way I travel to get my medications, see my treatment team, (get to the bus if I have to go what I consider a far distance), pick up groceries and other supplies, etc. is being called "purging/disordered eating behavior" just because my issue right now is not getting enough calories in.

I'll make sure to pick up a pint of Ben & Jerry's when I get my meds tomorrow and eat at least 2/3rds of it just so I can get enough calories that getting my meds and going to read at the park isn't considered purging though...

[MuddyBoots]

I mean I just talked to my case manager and she said I looked great (wasn't even wearing a hoodie or huge flannel to hide the weight loss) and asked if I had any hiking plans coming up and said I should think about hitting up one of the mountains soon. I know she's a dipshyt, but "she's a professional" and it's her job not to steer me wrong, right?

[Blueberrybook]

@MuddyBoots I thought you had a car which was why I had been wondering, but I guess not? That was why I was wondering why you were walking everywhere when you need so badly to go easy on your body.

I'm sorry if you took offense. I didn't mean it that way.

[MuddyBoots]

I kinda do/don't really. When I got SSI/SSDI I was told cars counted towards the asset limit (just found out that ONE car for transportation does not, so whatever) so my mom and I had an arrangement where she'd "buy" and have my uncle's old car under her name and I could use it as long as I pay for it, but now because it's not registered in my name, I can't get a parking permit for it and legally park it anywhere in the city overnight. If I find a way to her place (where it's parked) I could use it, but I'm not going to find a way to go all the way there and back (like an hour's worth of road time, more now that it's road construction season) and pay for gas and all the maintenance so I can drive an easy walk away when the weather for just these 5 weeks of the year is neither consistently freezing nor crazy hot.

[Blueberrybook]

Ah @MuddyBoots, now I understand about the car situation. It's just I had wondered why you were not driving to these places.

Starting my period I think so I hope to lose that stupid water weight. I did pilates today, really bummed I couldn't walk but it was pouring rain outside. Well, I know the pilates is easier on my body (and burns fewer calories). Last week, in the end I appreciated a couple days of lighter exercise activity with the pilates anyway. I'm maintaining my weight but am always unreasonably terrified that if I skip exercise, I'll wake up morbidly obese in a week or two. Really hate that, and I know it's not logical and furthermore that rest days are good for you...sigh.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Blueberrybook

Ah @MuddyBoots I'm maintaining my weight but am always unreasonably terrified that if I skip exercise, I'll wake up morbidly obese in a week or two. Really hate that, and I know it's not logical...

OTOH - my weight also is stable but if i eat lower calories for the week and exercise a few days, why dont i morph into a skinny person? Dude, seriously. How much does it take?

Nature abhors a vacuum but boy it really really loves inertia.

ETA - Like, i can see how YOUR thoughts are illogical, but MINE make perfect sense? No, thats not it. Reading how you feel is helping me understand my own feelings. You believe yours, i dont have faith in mine.

[MuddyBoots]

Possible trigger:

If I'm NOT immortal, I'm going to die before I want to recover and work towards it for more than half an hour a week. Guaranteed.

I probably am immortal though, honestly. People think it'd be cool, but it's really not if half your thoughts are some flavor of or tinted with suicidality.

[Blueberrybook]

@MuddyBoots - Take care of yourself. We don't want to see anything bad happen to you. In my case, I pushed recovery in the beginning, feeling pretty much ambivalent about it but then thankfully embracing it, there's always hope.

[MuddyBoots]

What made you push it if you didn't want to? I'm at the point I am working on ways to make the scale look the same or higher than it was my last appointment and am constantly lying to my providers. Last night I was kinda lonely, distrustful of the ACT team, and a little more than passively suicidal so contacted rapid response (the state crisis line) and kinda said "screw it, I don't want any help with this bs." They called back today as a follow up and I told them I'm not looking for support or assistance and I don't want to make any changes.
---

Not recommended to be in my apartment all next week, either (doing work on the heating system). Plan on staying with my mom. Or rather, plan on sleeping, showering, and laundering at my mom's. Gonna have access to a scale there before my pdoc appointment so I'll have a good idea as to what I have to do to not make it look like I lost whatever I did over the ten days. I'll be able to use the car though.
---
I seriously can't stick to my meal plans. I try to make them nutritious and tasty enough to want to eat but not so tasty I don't feel deserving of such "luxury," but something I'd be willing to follow, but half the time I only have half what I planned for a meal or skip it completely because eating it just feels like such bull. I consistently have breakfast, lunch and dinner are hit or miss. Lunch supposed to be between noon and 1pm and a lot of time I won't finish breakfast and save the rest for lunch and cut out what I planned or just skip, dinner time was initially planned to be 5pm each night, and same thing, it's usually leftover breakfast or lunch (that wasn't intended to have leftovers) or it's postponed sometimes hours or it's just plain old skipped.
----

Anyone know if those fitness trackers accurate with their "burned calorie" estimate by any chance (if you put as far as you know your actual weight and height in the settings)? I have one for a watch and just have the steps and calories hidden from the face, but can look them up if I sync with my phone. I started counting calories again (I know, I know, you don't have to say it) and looked up what it says I've been burning to compare, and I really hope it's way off otherwise my deficit on an average day is over triple what they recommend to people who are trying in a healthy way to lose weight that they don't need. There's no way that's accurate, right?

[Blueberrybook]

Honestly, I don't know what made me push it in the end other than after I got going (and got rid of my scale), I finally started feeling better (not about my body image) but physically I mean. I was so tired of barely being able to make it to class and my university campus was HUGE and the weather in TX well pretty hot & humid in that particular area. I started finding studying easier, but you know, it was slow progress, one step forward, 2 steps back, but I just also came to the realization that I would rather die than live the rest of my life that way. And really, yeah, bad as I have the thoughts and deal with the overexercise it's a cakewalk compared to my life back then. I just felt so strongly I couldn't go on that way. And then soon after recovery, I started grad school and met H, and that was a whirlwind, like I met him and within a week of knowing him felt I'd known him forever, we got engaged then married, it was a lot of stuff to really take my mind completely off the ED. I guess in my case, life started happening kind of at warp speed - soon a new house, pregnancy, a baby (yeah, you really don't have time to think about an ED when you've a baby with colic/clingy toddler/demanding preschooler). So maybe I got out of the habit of worrying over it, and the few short relapses I've had I reeled in quickly. I do NOT want my daughter to end up growing up insecure about her body image and seeing me constantly restricting/dieting when I don't need to diet, etc.

I'm sorry you are having trouble with your meal plan. Keep working at it though. You won't be perfect, but on the other hand you know what you need to do to get better. Recovery isn't always a bed of roses, but it brought a lot of good things into my life, namely my husband and my daughter. If you don't want to recover, then you have to also realize you are going to have to live the rest of your life a slave to the ED, and I don't know who the h*ll would want that?!

As far as the calories burned, yes, muddy, I think it could be nearly accurate (not 100% but a good ballpark). Especially given you are walking everywhere, the weather is warming up, you don't keep enough food down to maintain your weight even discounting the walking. Please be careful.

[Autumn88]

I empathise, @MuddyBoots.

I can hear through your words how badly you are struggling.

Wish I had some wise or comforting words for you, but in the least of things know I hear your voice, and I care.

[Autumn88]

Ack keep losing my run on sentence posts thst I really really needed to vent out...

No energy to write the whole thing over again.

So all for now will say, first thing I dud after ny first night at" home,", waking up at 4 AM like before hospital...first thing I did?

Stepped on my evil, 70 freaking dollar scale I just bought as last year surrendered my scale to my " supportive " housing worker who will not return it. Wa is yo talk 5o me about it.

If course felt controlled, autonomy robbed from me, feverishly want out one week before being admitted to hospital for orher mental.health issues, and boyht thst over.priced scale I could afford.

There's so much more I need to talk about if it's OK, but too tired to write it all again...better get this reply right.

Thank you for reading if you have, and keep fighting abd stay safe.