Do abusing parents know? ...

Wow. I could have written this. So many regrets, so many times (in hindsight) I should have spoken up, but I didn't. Lack of confidence, anxiety, no support from a dysfunctional family or a lazy self centered husband. I simply did not know how to 'be'.
I feel so guilty when I look back with the benefit of hindsight - so much I should have said and done but didn't.
I always loved my children to bits, but was I a good mother? I hate myself for so many failings. One of my sons hates me, says I was 'useless' that breaks my heart.

Both my parents were NPD. I spent a life time wondering if mother knew how unkind she was. She didn't know, right? I mean no mother would deliberately torment their own child? One day she said gloatingly
'You can make a child's life a misery without ever hitting them'
A sly smile played on her lips.
That day I knew, it was deliberate, she knew EXACTLY what she was doing. A malignant narc knows, they enjoy it a sadistic streak runs through them.

I think my parents are narcissistic because they think that we their children are means to their happiness, and all that matters is their feelings, not our happiness and feelings. I can try to escape this prison that they have created and that follows me even when I'm not around them, but the bottom line is that they have made life much more difficult for me because of their inconsideration and lack of awareness. The world is a cold place where no one cares about you and everyone tries to bring you down to your knees, and when your parents don't care as well, that's hard.

I am pretty sure my mother knew full well what her behaviour was and the results of it upon me. She seemed to at times enjoy it. My father on the other hand took a blind eye to my mother. I am sure he was aware of it but felt powerless to do anything about it.

Unfortunately some of this dysfunction is generational and of course some of it can be cultural as well. Some cultures are very hard on children and children are expected to be a certain way and to take care of their parents when their parents need them to.

I remember when I was there, I wanted to visit an elderly in the family, because I like him and he likes me, but I didn't. Why? Because I know my father would criticize me, and then we would have a big fight. So, I avoided all of this. I feel like this every time I want to do or say something. I know he would criticize me, and tell how idiot I am. Yes, I can do and say what I want regardless of what he would say, but when I'm criticized I become very angry and lose control of myself, and start yelling and doing things, and then everyone would thing I'm a bad person because I'm confronting my parents. That's how I've felt all my life. No wonder I'm depressed and a failure in life. The fear and the suppressed emotions inside me are indescribable.

sounds like DBT Emotional Regulation Section would be valuable skills for you to learn.

Hmmmm.....I never valued my parents opinions so I just went & did what I thought was right without caring what they thought. It taught me a great amount of independence. Did I fight with them....you bettcha. Did I care what others thought of my fighting.....not at all because I KNEW I was right in making the choices I made (usually well logically thought through)

My mom many times said that I was so different (probably just more confidence in the choices I made) that she was sure they gave her the wrong baby in tje hospital when they brought me home. I always responded with the fact that she had no idea how hard I worked at not being like them. If I hurt her feelings.....that was her problem to deal with not mine. Maybe being an only child helped but I also had no one to talk to about my parents dysfunctional behaviors either....had to figure it out & respond the way I saw was necessary & fighting with them never bothered me.

The one time I thought I would try to stop fighting with them & really worked at it.....my dad opened his unwise mouth so I just thought "screw it.....you want a verbal fight.....bring it on" (I was in junior high)

I got along much better after I moved out but there were still some difficult times but both my mom & dad got some better & were awesome grandparents to our daughter. She did not see the same people in them as I did growing up....which was good for me....my mom still had her strange quirks up until she died in Jan 2005.

With good therapy after all those dysfunctional people are no longer in my life I often wonder how that therapy might have changed how I actually reacted to them in the first place. I saw a little of how it helped this summer when I went back to Calif to deal with legal issues with my NOW ex-H. I was actually in control of my emotions & my anger when he said & did things that would have triggered me before. I wonder if it was my better control of if I just hadn't been around it for 11 years so my anger level wasn't already FULL when dealing with him. It felt good to be in that control & I can see DBT skills I used.

I think I have a huge problem in emotions regulations. My reactions to life's events are dramatic, and out of proportion most of the time. I don't react well when people treat me with disrespect and neglect. I'm very sensitive to the slightest of negative remarks, even if you look away while talking to me. In that case I fight or flight. I think it has do to with the critiques/the beatings I have received from my parents growing up. I'm trying to be independent, but without a job, it's not easy. They don't respect me more. They think I'm a failure and a shame.

The key to learning emotional regulation is reprogramming your mind in how you react & respond verses what you learned to do growing up....that is what DBT or therapy should be doing to help.

Yep, losing my career at 42 & being dependent on a H that was financially irresponsible was the source of my major depression & a failing economy on top of that. So I definitely understand how you are feeling. That is also why I wonder IF the skills I have learned would have REALLY worked during that time of my life. The one major thing I learned is that things can unexpectedly change & turn around so sometimes just being able to tolerate the crap for a little longer. That would have been implementing Radical Acceptance for as long as necessary until things change in our life....something we constantly stay aware of even while radically accepting how things currently are.

Dang 13 years was a long time for me & I was not tolerating it at all..no learned skills....just wanted to escape any way possible. I am glad I didn't because I would not be enjoying the life of peace I have now (even with it's ups & downs).

How can they not?

Especially when it comes to criminal behaviors.

I believe my parents and siblings knew full well what they were doing was wrong yet they chose to keep on inflicting the pain & suffering anyway.

To choose to inflict soul destroying carnage on another human being is pure evil.

That's all Pfrog has to say about that.

Obviously it depends on the kind of abuse....many parents grew up in emotional abusive homes & it bevame their NORMAL & back in their day there wasn't the knowledge about the psychological trauma it caused. Some abuse is just blatently obvious that it is abuse & they would have to know it while more subtle abuse we are only now psychologically finding out the damage it really causes.

I think the reason why my parents have had such an effect on me even when I'm not around them is the feeling of guilt. I had always returned normal with them because I felt guilty about how they might been feeling, not because they would make things right. But because of not talking about the dysfunctional dynamics in the family, and because we kept sweeping the problems under the carpet, and when we talked we fought and yelled at each others, now I'm in a state where I no longer can stand them, to the point that I don't want to see them again. Sure, I still feel guilty, but I must break this connection and be free and independent from their expectations and critical comments, because they won't change at this point, and their presence in my life is a source of anxiety and stress.

Your analysis sounds reasonable. I agree that when people cause anxiety and stress that we are related to only see them for only as long as you can handle--I feel terrible about myself when I am not patient. It becomes a circie of negative reinforcement. If it has been a long time since you have seen family--sometimes all of the old challenges are forgotten for a while. With some people (who knows, maybe I qualify too), they can only be taken in small doses. Understanding that you need to move on is OK. Maybe you parent's are just denying reality (it can be hard to change sometimes.)

My father keeps telling me that I will understand what he is doing when I have children. He keeps saying it's not easy having children. He is convinced that the ONLY way to make us successful and not suffer in life is to beat us physically, to keep treating us with no respect when we are alone and in front of people, and to control our lives to the smallest detail like puppets. The problem is that his life experience is not the same as mine. He grew up poor, and thus for him what is important is not love and respect but money. As long as he provides money, he considers himself as loving, and his goal for us is to be able to make money and be rich. Anything else is secondary and not important, and should not be brought up. He measures success by money only. The irony is that I am far from successful. I am actually a failure in life exactly because of the things he has done to me. All my classmates are more successful than me (they have jobs, married, have cars and houses, travel, ... etc), and I am almost sure that no one of them was beaten and criticized by their parents as it was done to me. I don't want to understand when I become a parent, because I don't want to be one, thanks to him.

It sounds like you have a very good & thorough understanding even though it is NOT the understanding your father wants you to have.....yiu GOT IT!!!!

Actually I learned well from my parents what I didn't want to be like too. Growing up I thought my parents issues were ALL because of lack of education & intelligence. I mean really as a kid & wondered where the stupid stuff my dad said came from so I strived hard myself to excell in school. I had to work harder at it than the other kids but I competed with the best of them. That was where I got my recognition & sense of accomplishment. My parents didn't criticize so at least they did no harm in that area. My dad didn't want me to go to college because "it would fill my head with bad stuff" I blew him off like always & went to college. Got an AA in music & flute performance & a BS in Accounting & Computer Science. Guess my dad changed his toon about college when I ended up in a computer engineering career. If ASD had been known about in his lifetime I am sure he fit ALL the criteria & I had a mom who had such bad self-esteem & self-confidence that her behaviors created a trap at home. I always got the feeling that because I was their only child that they wanted to be overly protective & keep me their baby forever & I would have none of that which is probably why we fought constantly. The strange thing is that I can't remember the details if our fights just the sensation that I hated what they were like as parents & I had a need to escape & since I couldn't escape I fought. (Lol....fight or flight....if you can't flight you fight?) My mom didn't drive until I was 16 & they had no friends & knew no one so there was no way I could get anywhere except to school & home unless I walked. Even in those days Los Angeles was not the safest place especially in the part of town where we lived.

I cat totally relate to not wanting to be a parent. I KNEW I disn't want to be like my parents but I had no other examples to learn from that was what I wanted to be like. I did get married & had our daughter & I messed up on my own fighting the pressures to be like my parents & in-laws.....but I fought their expectations without any guilt because I KNEW all my life that I was NOT LIKE THEM....so why should I be like them.

I seriously think my parents were incapable of knowing just how totally dysfunctional as parents they really were. They excused away their behaviors on their own childhood lives & they blamed the church people for not including them in because they lived too far away & didn't habe the money to send me to the church school. I actually realize now that they didn't include them in because of my dad who would get in the stupidest arguments about things he knew absolutely nothing about wuth people who were having an intelligent cinversation. I remember always being embarrassed that he was my dad even at a very young age when I heard him arguing with other people. He had no idea how stupid he sounded because his mind was sure he was right no matter how wrong he really was.

Interesting how totally different childhoods & family environments can land us in basically a very similar situation.

I do understand that need to get away & get your independence.....something I fought for all my life but never achieved it until I was 54 & my parents were no longer alive & I finally left my bad marriage. Yea I married a guy just like my dad only I had convinced myself that no one with an education could be like my dad.....ah was I wrong. It took me good therapy & a lot if research to learn why they were so similar.....but it makes sense now. I was finally able to stop fighting in my marriage & flee. Best thing I ever did in my whole life & getting around people not like them really helped me relate to people & find the peace in my life I always wondered if it existed.

I love my simple farm life now surrounded by down to earth people & animals. It definitely doesn't take money to create happiness....just a peaceful life that you are satisfied with.

I absolutely agree.

I have heard that my grandfather was a tyrant and dysfunctional as a husband and parent. My grandmother was from aristocracy and married 'beneath' her. She raised her children including my mom with Victorian values primarily based on etiquette. My own mother then learnt from hers. Hence it being drilled into me that what people think of you - whether it be your appearance, behaviours, and successes - is the most important thing in life. To break these rules or fail was to invite her wrath both emotional and physical. Coming up short - in particularly not being popular - was taken as a personal slight against her. One ran the constant risk of being told they were a humiliation to her and embarassment. I was accused again and again fo doing so on purpose.

I experience recurrent episodes of derealization/depersonalization, especially when I'm overwhelmed like being in a large crowd, but it also happens when I am alone watching a movie for example, where I detach from reality and everything becomes foggy and blurry and noisy and ... unreal. I read a little about it, and it's believed that it is caused by emotional abuse in childhood, which makes sense to me, because as a child I wasn't able to defend myself and say anything when I was abused, and I had to suppress all these feelings of anger and sadness. Now, they are manifesting in different forms: depression, anxiety, derealization, ... etc.

In therapy I learned that derealization is definitely a coping mechanism. I never experienced it until after I went througj a trauma in 2004.....it followed me for a few years but I have not experienced it happening in quite a few years now....it can hit when I get overly stressed though. I didn't know what it was when it first hit me & I had to ask my pdoc at the time because it scared me to experience it so intensely.

Stress & any crowds caused me to feel that way for awhile. Good therapy & living in the country by myself have all been part of the healing process along with meeting awesome people who are my wonderful support system....better than family ever knew how to be.

Another way these suppressed emotions manifest themselves is by self-talking. Yesterday, I created an argument between me and my father multiple times in my head, and each time I ended up being so angry and yelled while whispering. I think these self-talks are the conflict between how I feel about what happened, and feeling guilty, because I could just not think about it, and move on.

We all have different ways of things coming out. When I had conflicts with my ex before we finally divorced I would have reoccuring dreams that I was either fighting to get away from him or fighting to get away from my parents.....I know neither really physically happened IRL but definirely emotionally. Sometimes we just have to go with it I work on integrating that past with our present. My T helped me with that after intense DBT group for 2 years helped me learn necessary skills to handle my life in the now.