Support/Enabling

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In co-dependent relationships, "We need each other," which can be a healthy thing, often covers over "I need you to need me"; this can lead to "I will keep you needy because, if you ever get better, I am afraid that you will leave me." This kind of interaction is grounded in desperation and often spawns abusive and obsessive relationships grounded in neediness and control rather than love [caring] and respect.

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Taken from an article in the Resource section of this site. Which choice do you feel most strongly about as it pertains to the interaction of the members and the general outcome? Is this site truly a "supportive" site or are we just enabling each other to continue in the same old ruts of our existance?

Sorry. I forgot to add that YOUR opinion and/or your comments are most welcome.

There have been times when I have tried to explain why I like this board much better than other mental health support boards, and I think this question throws a little light on the subject for me.

At other boards I've been to it seems to me like there is a lot of just neediness and no support going on. I do think that one of the reasons is the "no suicidal posts" rule we have here. On other boards it seems like there are a lot of threats followed by comforting by other members... There is a word I would use to describe the overall feel but I won't use it because it is a very judgemental word and not at all applicable in all individual posts.

The atmosphere here is so supportive to me. I feel like I have real friends here.

Of course, everyone will get out of the resources here what they give. So it doesn't eliminate the possibility of "enabling" but for me the overall tone here is not one of "Please help me, we're all in the same boat so let's all suffer together" Rather, to me, this place feels like "Please support me. Help me to get help when I need it. Share your experiences so I know I am not alone."

I like that we discuss our meds, offer ideas for coping skills to one another, discuss the types of therapy we undergo... and that of course is all alongside the mutual support and understanding.

Sometimes we do just want or need nothing more than acknowledgement that we are suffering. This place is supportive in that area too. I don't want anyone to think that I think it is bad to just post "I'm having a bad day" or simply "I need a hug". I think those types of posts are very important here, and within the context of this place, posts like that show understanding of one's own needs and the courage to come right out and ask for it. But I guess it is all about context. At PC, that is only one element of the support that is available.

What was the question again?

Thanks for your response, Dave. Of course, the post was made from my own frustrations. Your response will, in the end, put things in perspective for me.

In My Opinion: it's BOTH. <font color="darkgreen"> For those who accept our support, who are healthy enough to realize that we can become a part of their plan for changing for the better, it is a support site. For those who are not wanting to change, are wanting to hear only agreement to what their distorted thinking allows, we probably become enablers. Either we support them, enable them, or ignore them. If we all ignore a member when all efforts of support are dissed, then they complain louder, mods listen and continue enabling, and the rest of us make a choice to put up with them or continue to ignore them. Perhaps those who don't want support will continue to see things only their way, and will either stay for the conflict they impart, or leave because they aren't being coddled. If they choose to stay and try to change - or at least hear others with a more open mind... who knows???

Let my comments not be construed to say that everyone here needs to agree with everyone else. Support comes from what WE know has worked for us, and /or others, and from encouragement to continue -or end- a behavior based upon OUR perspective. It doesn't mean we are right or wrong.

What happened to all that "I STATEMENTS" stuff, when I spoke "too general" and ppl encouraged me to only speak from MY perspective and how I felt etc etc etc??? Other members need to go back to that, imo. We need to say something like , "This thread is upsetting me" rather than "I hate the conflict this thread is creating on site." (Or better yet...ignore the whole thread and don't say anything! If it's really a bad thread, notify the moderator, don't voice your opinion in public... usually it's an admin issue anyway!) What's up with that? Just like for support of others, we enable, support, or ignore... ok, but don't bash.

I feel this site is supportive to me.... I have found that I am not the only one in the world that has felt the way i do at times. It is supportive in that I have learned more about myself and how I can be everything that i wanted to be, but was too afraid of that person staring back at me in the mirror. It has enabled me to let the old person wake up and realize that I am no longer a victim.... The people here have supported me when I wanted to talk about me!

I think it's both. Some I see as being enabled, and some I see as being supported. Just my opinion.

I think for the most part this site is very supportive. I have been on other on line support websites and in two of them the members seemed to be stuck repeating the same problems over and over again. In fact a friend of mine recently joined one of those groups and I asked her to print off some posts form people I knew when I was still there. (I did not tell her that I wanted to see if things had changed just that I was curious as to if the same people were still there so if I rejoined back up I would know some of the people) Well I haven't been on this particular site for 2 years and this person is still posting every other post about going into hospitals which when I was there happened everytime someone didn't agree with her, one person who had achieved "integration" was not integrated now and seems to have never been integrated for all post pertaining to her being integrated has been removed. and all posts found on others are of the same identical problems by the same identical people from when I was there and problems that had beenresolved for these people when I was there are no longer resolved. It was like everyone there just keep staying stuck, never moving forwards Dont get me wrong on the surface they are supportive and give each other resources but a majority of them dont seem like they are using the resourses and support for anything but poor me and if you don't agree Ill kill myself, go into the hospital or leave the site over and over again. Here I see people genuinely trying to help themselves and genuinely helping each other. People are posting resources and ways to help and people are posting what the results are from using the resources and help the y recieve here. Those that say they are leaving usually do and some come back, Those that have problems where hospitalization is needed do so because they seem to truely need it, not because of no one agreeing with them here. In fact when there is a problem here between people it is worked out here between those people having the problem , (Though it sometimes takes the form un necessessary bickering on the message boards which upsets some while others "sit back and enjoy the show." when it should be dealt with in PM or the chat rooms with the mods and admins help if needed. ) But over all this is the best on line support group I have been in yet and I have been in 5 different ones 3 of which are no longer on line. My thanks goes to Doc John and the rest of that administrative and moderation team for upholding much needed high standards for this webiste.

I checked yes to both support and enabling. I've seen a lot of both happening here during the years that I've been part of the site. We do our best but I believe there is always going to be good and bad at any site.

Great thread (((((((((Tomi))))))))))

The question posed is so general... Of course with hundreds of active members, you're going to see a lot of both kinds of behaviors, here and I'd imagine on nearly every support site online. It's inevitable.

I hope most people aim for support, but I imagine a lot of enabling goes on to. I don't think it can be avoided because this is a human, not an ideal, environment.

I wouldn't want it any other way.

DocJohn

Of course, compared to any other site, this one would shine as supportive! But relative to THIS site, it's a mixed bag. Which means, imo, that at other sites there is very little REAL support going on! Other sites don't matter to me much. This one does, and for that to continue, imo, we each need to step back once in a while and look at ourselves, and observe ourselves as others might. Then we'll stay a good, safe, supportive, site!

I think a lot of people mix up what SUPPORT means and what ADVICE means.....

More often then not I have found some of the fights so to speak and ill feelings happen when someone wants to give advice to someone who has JUST ASKED for support...and then they feel they weren't heard or that person isnt OPEN to help..when in fact they NEVER asked for more than some understanding....
I think a lot could be avoided if we looked for question marks...if we don't see them.....maybe read the post again...they may just want a shoulder..I have found this to be the case with me a few times and seen it with others

This is what Webster has to say about "support." I find a lot of possible "bleed over" in some of the defenitions.

<font color="purple">Support: transitive verb

1 : to endure bravely or quietly : BEAR
2 a (1) : to promote the interests or cause of (2) : to uphold or defend as valid or right : ADVOCATE (3) : to argue or vote for b (1) : ASSIST, HELP (2) : to act with (3) c : to provide with substantiation : CORROBORATE [support an alibi]
3 a : to pay the costs of : MAINTAIN b : to provide a basis for the existence or subsistence of [the island could probably support three -- A. B. C. Whipple]
4 a : to hold up or serve as a foundation or prop for b : to maintain at a desired level by purchases or loans; also : to maintain the price of by purchases or loans
5 : to keep from fainting, yielding, or losing courage : COMFORT
6 : to keep (something) going (keep WHAT going?) (italics mine)
synonyms SUPPORT, UPHOLD, ADVOCATE, BACK, CHAMPION mean to favor actively one that meets opposition. SUPPORT is least explicit about the nature of the assistance given [supports waterfront development]. UPHOLD implies extended support given to something attacked [upheld the legitimacy of the military action]. ADVOCATE stresses urging or pleading [advocated prison reform]. BACK suggests supporting by lending assistance to one failing or falling [refusing to back the call for sanctions]. CHAMPION suggests publicly defending one unjustly attacked or too weak to advocate his or her own cause [championed the rights of children].</font>

SeptemberMorn I agree and know the definition of both.... BUT let us look at my whole statement and where I placed it...I am speaking of emotional support on a psych site...... I did mention looking for a question mark...I really think and this is MY OPINION that if we all look for what the POSTER is ASKING for better we will be better able to be supportive in the way they NEED it....My T and I am guessing MOST do not give advice but they do offfer support....That is what I meant but yes one can make a case for how it can bleed over....thats not my point though maybe it is yours...

For myself I would rather when I post that people look for what I am really asking for. Once I was very misunderstood and it seemed like I was not taking the ADVICE but in fact if people had read my post well they would have seen I just wanted and NEEDED support....emotional support..Its not to say I do not or did not appreciate the help and fact eople cared but I needed something else

Its just a thought

Of course the question is general, Doc. My post could well have been deleted right off the bat had I said "Do you think so-n-so is being 'enabled' by so-n-so on this particular issue?"

In my answer to Dave, I mentioned my own frustrations as well as trying to arrive at some kind of perspective because so many times I'm left wondering what it is that happens when a particular problem arises and to my thinking, it isn't resolved. I'm not questioning you or your guidelines. What I'm doing is trying to find that fine line for myself by gathering as many opinions as possible, including Yours. Maybe... especially Yours! I'm just trying to understand. If I'm questioning, it's myself and my perspective that I'm questioning. Let that be understood.

To me this site is a little bit of both, in many ways. some days I will give my support and some days I think by reading others post I am only enabling myslef into a rut that I can not or will not ever get out of. It all depends on my mood, and how far I have sprield down onthat day.

Most of the time the support I have sought out on here has been just that, supporitve to the max.. And I would not be there if not for that.
I love the site and Doc John for making it and Hope it never goes away.

This is a very good post Sept. you amoung many others here are a very good asset to the fourms.

Love your dragon

It has been my ongoing experience here that I have been supported when in crisis and confusion - and equally supported when I've posted in poetry what I experience. . . such support has "enabled" me to find my voice(s) and to keep talking. . .

I have been looking at what people have said in this thread. I don't disagree with anything. I am sure at times this site and the people here provide both support and enabling depending on the people envolved and the situation.

As far as the difference between support and advice I look at it like this....there are times when I need support, a hand, a shoulder, a cane, or even a crutch because I am not able to raise myself to a point where I am able to take advice much less act on it. Sometimes I just need to be down and to know that somebody cares and understands.

This support then makes me stronger to be able to accept and act on advice I am given.

Enabling starts when my supporters let me feel the self pity for too long with out a nudge to get up and get moving back on the path to wellness.

place

Yes, the word "enable" has a possitive meaning as well as a negative one. It's the negative meaning that I'm having a problem with.

I'm glad that you have found positive enabling with your poetry. Write on!

Well said Place and we do not disagree ..I did not address the enable issue as I haven't run into that myself nor seen much of it...and frankly that would in most cases only be known by those involved...Myself I have not been enabled but many may have....or may not...I just cannot speak to that myself..so I stuck to the issue of support..I also ONLY voted on that issue

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Enabling starts when my supporters let me feel the self pity for too long with out a nudge to get up and get moving back on the path to wellness.

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Exactly!! That's my point and that's the definition I was looking for!! THANK YOU, Place!

I am not picking this apart ,....(I feel often like I have to walk on egg shells when I post but) YES if we allowed someone to wallow too long for us....but then the question becomes WHO deternines when it is too long? THAT is where I think problems can arise.

That is always a fine line of how long before you give a nudge. Of course there is no one answer. I think those involved in the situation need to determine that. Whether it is a therapist, a friend or a family member. I guess maybe it would be when the tide turns from " good ole' geez I feel like crap and need a shoulder to cry on" to when the behavior turns destructive for the person or the supporters.

This is my opinion. Maybe others have better ideas.

place

Oh Place I agree with the real life people ..friends and family and a T but I think this is about this site if I recall i read the original poll question hours ago and to ME being its online its a bit unsafe to know when to nudge.....unless say people know one another well froma year or something on this site..Nobody knows me well enough yet to know when I need a nudge yet....Thats what I am addressing the PC issues

Yes I can see your point... with not knowing somebody well it would be very difficult to know when to give the nudge. I was thinking of friends I have made here over time so yes you are right.

I think people offer advice with a sincere effort to help. I know sometimes I am not at a point where I am ready to move forward and the well meant advice creates a sore point. I feel sometimes like saying "just let me stay here for a minute and please just listen" When I feel that way I try and remember to voice that. Then later when I am ready to move maybe the advice is more welcome.

At any rate it is a hard line to walk between support, helpfull advice and enabling. Made even harder by the no face to face a site like this presents.

place