[madisgram]

i'm not putting this in the abuse forum because i use an example in my life but everyone can contribute about their life in this thread. i lived in an abusive marriage for 13+years. at the time i did feel powerless because the laws did not protect me-domestic dispute they called it and the police left time and time again. then the laws changed. (it's not my nature to blame others for my own misfortune however but i know that it is easy to do so.) i had sought out counsel with a lawyer. i was desperate and the only way out i thought was doing the unmentionable. i became powerful when i used the legal system to remedy the problem, protection orders, contempt of court re him, etc. during that time i joined a support group for persons abused. i became empowered with what i learned. this experience of no longer being the "victim" has changed my life. i learned to set boundaries, i learned how to avoid abusers, etc. coupled with therapy. i told T i never wanted to be in that type of situation again. he taught me the red flags. most importantly i learned i had value and no longer felt less than. i am no longer a victim. i am a survivor. i am empowered in all facets of my life. no pity pot for me.

"I can't help it!" "I had no choice." "You just don't understand." "I didn't mean it!" "You ruined my life!" "You made me do it!" These are the words of someone who has a Victim identity. But while they convey powerlessness, they are actually quite powerful.
They are powerful because other people believe these words have merit. And these people very often take the power that is being handed to them with these words. They are then putty in the hands of the Victim, picking up the responsibility for the Victim's life. But these words are not true. It isn't true that a person can have "no choice." It isn't true that we "can't help" doing what we do. It isn't true that we can do something without at least unconsciously meaning to do it. It isn't true that someone can ruin another person's life. It isn't true that other people can make us do things. And the most powerful words of all--you just don't understand--are meant to put the icing on the cake, for these words say that the Victim is so special that no one can understand his dilemma, which means this Victim wins the Victim contest, hands down.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...lessness-power

Hello, madisgra. I am glad you learned and share.

[Justme_55]

Can I ask how in you're own way you have been able to move past the resentment against him? I'm separated and so angry with my husband for a plethora of reasons; and angry with myself for him not respecting standard boundaries, & me putting up with it. I'm so happy you have moved forward, I know time and therapy (for me) is easing the anger; but I have alot of contempt I need to rid myself of; any advice is much appreciated!!

[Open Eyes]

The past couple days have been hard for me. I have had to deal with my sister and I didn't invite her, she just came in. She left a long lecture on my phone, then she called me today and lectured me, she began by telling me there was a change, I thought she meant about my mother's health, but then she started her toxic lecture and would not allow me to speak. It goes so far back and she was always Miss know it all controller.

I tried to tell this time, called my dad and asked him to step in and tell her not to bother me, that my therapist has confirmed she is toxic. My dad didn't get it, he told me that it was something I had to do. I thought I had done it. And I don't like her around my daughter, but she has been there too. When my dad wouldn't listen, wouldn't understand, it was something that I seemed to know a very long time ago. And now I realize, I never really could have told even if I wanted to. I just did and it didn't make a difference.

I am trying to not let this get to me, stand up for myself, but I am dealing with too much right now and I wasn't expecting this attack. I am trying, really trying but I have been too busy with the legal case and I havent had time to discuss this with the T.

Oh, I dont know madisgram, I am trying to get it, I just got caught off guard.

Open Eyes

[madisgram]

Originally Posted by Justme_55

Can I ask how in you're own way you have been able to move past the resentment against him? I'm separated and so angry with my husband for a plethora of reasons; and angry with myself for him not respecting standard boundaries, & me putting up with it. I'm so happy you have moved forward, I know time and therapy (for me) is easing the anger; but I have alot of contempt I need to rid myself of; any advice is much appreciated!!

here's two good articles that can help you regain your self esteem and empower yourself. http://www.dumblittleman.com/2008/08...nal-abuse.html and this one too http://www.ehow.com/how_2379720_over...nal-abuse.html
the most important thing that is necessary to learn is your abuse came from your spouse. he owns it.and any guilt lies with him. you need to rid yourself of your guilt cause you didn't do anything wrong. i found i had the POW syndrome. i felt unworthy. i felt my feelings and emotions were not allowed. i had lost myself. i became emotionless. so i needed to relearn who i really was. i had no idea anymore.
this can be done. also i found it important to learn in therapy how to spot the red flags in other people that had the potential to be abusive. can't tell you how many times it's avoided me getting into an unhealthy relationship again. so i strongly recommend you discuss the with your therapist. it's important too for your future well being. i wish you well.
feel free to pm me if you like.

[Fresia]

Thanks everyone for sharing. There are things that happen that are so painful and so difficult to overcome, even in sharing I know is hard, it is for me too. There are times when things seem so impossible; I really can relate to this too.

Being a victim and in therapy for more years than I can count, I finally began to understand that we really truly DO have a choice in what we are going to do about a situation, about ourselves in a situation, or how we are going to handle it. Even making no decision or doing nothing is a choice for ourselves; it is still not a matter of letting others decide for us, as indecision is still a decision we have made. It typically fairs better to actively make a choice, especially in setting healthy boundaries or even ANY kind of boundary to protect ourselves and our loved ones. We cannot change what has happened but we can change what we do about it now. So many things that happen and continue to happen to us are things that we have allowed to happen by indecision or thinking we can't change it; we actually can make a choice to change it, and there is comfort and power that comes from that first step to make a difference and turn it around.

Madisgram I think its great that you got yourself out of that situation & you have the mindset to do whatever it takes not to be out in that position again. Not only that you discovered your worth & value...w/o that we tend to let ourselves get treated any kind of way. Kudos to you *hugs*

I was raped at the age of 19 by my cousin's boyfriend...I'm 22 yrs now & still haven't dealt with it. At the time it happened I was forced to go to the ER by my Godmother in which I was forced to tell my family. Let's just say that didn't turn out well at all. Not only that the police didn't seem like I was being truthful because I guess my reaction to it wasn't how they think a person who just got raped would react. They said I waited too long to say something which was only about 5 hrs after the actual rape happened & they also said there was no evidence...only his word against mine. So I didn't go through with trying to put him away. I was going back to college in a couple of months & things were just extremely too stressful to deal with. So I definitely felt powerless in that situation. Even as I'm typing this I still feel completely numb.

The effects of it was my grandma dying almost a month later because she was sick & the stress of my attack only made her even more sick. So of course I blame myself for her death & I will live with that for the rest of my life. Now I have absolutely no contact with my family & obviously they don't care enough to reach out to me. What's even more disturbing is that my cousin is still with him. You would think family looks out for family, but apparently not.

Hopefully one day I can truly heal from this along with other issues. I still have nightmares & flashbacks. I recently refused to continue to talk to a guy because his touch & the way he looked reminded me of that day. I don't know when or how I will be able to deal with this, but til then I will stat completely numb. I'm afraid to allow myself to feel because of how I may react. So I can understand the powerlessness as power.

[pachyderm]

It isn't true that someone can ruin another person's life. It isn't true that other people can make us do things. And the most powerful words of all--you just don't understand--are meant to put the icing on the cake, for these words say that the Victim is so special that no one can understand his dilemma, which means this Victim wins the Victim contest, hands down.

The following reaction is to this kind of quote, not to Madisgram's or anyone's actual situation:

I would pose this question: How is this different from blaming the victim? If this victim makes you feel upset, then this victim must be "in control" because you certainly don't feel in control? Do you really feel that victims are in some kind of "contest" to control you?

I think no one who feels really and securely that they have control would do this kind of thing, would "freely choose" to be a victim. If we "are" in control now, were we always in control? If not, is learning that we are now in control easy; do we get support for our new and assertive position? Or do we still have to fight in our present lives against those who do not want us to be assertive in any way?

[Perna]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

How is this different from blaming the victim?

I think the problem is the definition and identification of "victim". The only reason I can see for defining and identifying myself as victim is to ask for help from some specific one else. If I have been raped, I need to go to the hospital and police. If I was abused as a child and was unable to get help then, I need to find a social worker or therapist now, someone who wishes to help me. If I am in an abusive situation, I need to find a women's shelter and counseling, police, whatever, to help me out of it.

Being victimized, to me, is a "problem" that needs solving, not an identification that goes with mother, daughter, worker-bee, wife, grown woman with three brothers, etc.

No growth or problem solving in life is easy or automatic and most of it takes time. If someone has nothing useful to say to me other than to "blame" me for my problems, I am not going to include that person in my quest for helpers? I am going to listen to what they have to say, see if I can understand where they are coming from and why they say what they say and if there is any truth in their point of view but I'm not going to take anything that anyone else says about my life and situation as a given.

I may be really messed up and unable to tell "which end goes up" but complaining and waiting for someone else to care and help in going to take a heck of a lot longer than my reaching out and grabbing hold of something, anything, and trying to right myself by my own understanding of my situation.

We can't change the other people; can't make them help or even be helpful. It's all on us, whether we like it or not; it's our life, the other people are just actors on our stage, like the weather and other stage props.

[pachyderm]

Perna is a stage prop on my stage.

Just like those department store mannikins... but at night...

[lizardlady]

Madisgram, thank you for sharing. I was in an abusive relationship for 23+ years. Prior to that I lived with an abusive parent. I wasn't aware things could be different until my therapist helped me start to see there could be. It was a l-o-n-g hard road from being a terrified little rabbit to the person I am toda. At one point, towards the end of therapy, my T told me I had to learn to "forgive and forget." I told him I might reach foregiveness one day, but I was never going to forget because I'd end up back in the same situationa all over again.

As for the various responses about someone being a "victim". IMHO, there is a difference between what madisgram talked about and what the blogger she quoted talked about. Again, IMHO, someone who has experienced abuse has been victimized - they are a "victim." I disagree with the blogger. It is possible for one person to control another person's actions. That's how abusers function. An abusive spouse does not walk up to a total stranger and belt them in the face. There is an ongoing process of wearing the person down in order to convince them they deserve the abuse. Before I entered therapy I truly did not beleive I had any control over what happened to me. I believed I deserved it when my husband hit me. I know differently now. I've learned, but at the time I did not know I had a choice.
It seems to me the blogger is talking more about people who have what I call a "victim mindset." These are people who use being a "victim" in order to manipulate others. Be giving the appearance of being helpless they actually use that to control other people.

[lizardlady]

Originally Posted by Justme_55

Can I ask how in you're own way you have been able to move past the resentment against him? I'm separated and so angry with my husband for a plethora of reasons; and angry with myself for him not respecting standard boundaries, & me putting up with it. I'm so happy you have moved forward, I know time and therapy (for me) is easing the anger; but I have alot of contempt I need to rid myself of; any advice is much appreciated!!

Justme, I'm not sure I can offer any useful advice. My husband has been dead for ten years now. There is still a part of me that is angry about what he did to me. I don't know that that piece of anger will ever go away. At the same time I can also remember the good times of our relationship. Shortly before I ended therapy my T told me that was a sign of healing.

It sounds like you have not been separated from your husband very long. Maybe you need to give yourself time to process it in therapy?

I was still married to my husband when he died so my situation was different than yours. I found when I finally stopped trying to help my husband and focused on what I needed to do for me I started to heal. Does that make sense?

[lizardlady]

I just stumbeled across this quote and wanted to share because I I think it fits the thread....

“Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths. When you go through hardship and decide not to surrender, that is strength.” Mahatma Ghandi

[purple_fins]

madisgram I'm so glad you overcame and rose above a very difficult situation and that the laws were there to assist you-- as they should have from the very beginning... but... better late than never, I guess.

I just thought about bringing up this-- I couldn't see anything in the article about it....
this is not meant towards anyone in particular-- just a viewpoint...

anyway-- all this makes very much sense when a person is abused as an adult-- 18+ years old.(or even 16+years old) After all the brain wires are set as far as who someone is, what to expect from others, what love is and what caring is-- those things are, for the most part, set in the brain by the average 16-18 year old, who didn't come from inebriating abuse....
but....

what about a small child that comes from life changing abuse?
where the abuse often carves paths into the brain as to who they are, how they act, what they expect from others, and such. There are few choices for a 3, 5 or 7 year old when experiencing abuse. The abuse writes on their memories and then so much comes up unaware much later- as adults.

Sure we must be held responsbile for how we act as adults... but... it gets complicated ... to expect someone to get out of that "mode" when that's all they knew or experienced for the first 16 years of their life. (it sets tracks in the brain that must be totally re-set with other ways of thinking. Like tearing up all the roads in Boston and re-setting them in other places!- this building must be torn down, that building isn't needed this building is in the way.. *phew*... it's daunting, whereas, a person abused only while as an adult has the roads there- just some of them have been blocked off- they need to be cleared but they already exist)

It's such an IMMENSE struggle of learning, failing, perserverance, more learning and more failing.... it can be done... but with much much hard work and persistance.
I believe it's a whole other ball game when considering how a person was treated from 0- to at least 14 years old. Adult abuse in relationships is way different than a child being abused... one needs to consider the background of the adult-- at least that's what I think.

peace to all
fins

[Gr3tta]

I think that there are similarities and differences between children and adults in abusive situations.
I think the key is that anyone being abused may feel powerless, and believe they are powerless. Whether it's true or not, it's reality for them.
Do people who have been victims ever manipulate others by playing the victim? Of course. Sometimes they have learned to do this because it has been the only way they can achieve any control in their lives.
Learning that they do have power, and don't need to do this behavior, can be incredibly difficult.
Victims don't get a free pass on bad behavior - I know I'm responsible for how I act now. BUT I also know that there are reasons my behavior is sometimes undesirable. I appreciate some understanding from others while I work on being better.