How do I know if am stupid or not?

People on PC (and in real life) tell me I am intelligent but the seemingly endless struggles I experience understanding what I am learning or being taught appear to refute that claim.

Intelligence is significant to me because it is the single characteristic of mine that I have ever been valued and respected for, since I have, for as long as I can remember, failed at about everything else. As a child, when I used to reflect on relationships and why it was that I was abused and disliked so much, I noted the connection between academic performance and relationships when I observed that the children whom excelled in school were treated better than the ones who did not. Later, I concluded that the abuse I was forced to endure was a consequence of low academic scores (i.e., being stupid). It was this that motivated me to attempt to master and learn everything I could to be less stupid and reduce the abuse in my everyday life; to a degree, I was successful in this, because as my scores improves staff at school treated me better, I was bullied less, and while abuse still occurred in my household, it was of a different kind. Academic scores and intelligence thus became critical to how I see myself and the world around me.

But when I recurrently encounter situations that I feel reflect negatively on my intelligence or lack thereof, it is a threat to all of what I value and wish to achieve, thereby making me feel anxious and contemplate suicide. Indeed, in 2011 when I drafted plans to commit suicide out of issues with university, I believed (and to a lesser degree still do) that failing to achieve a formal education would forever condemn me to failure, especially with regards to relationships - how could a woman, or anyone for that matter, accept me if I failed at that? While that might seem absurd to those reading this now, I feel like I am regularly treated with disdain for exactly this reason, and it was because of this that originally prompted me to delete my Facebook account.

When I am told I am intelligent I can never sure to believe it because I always see intellectual shortcomings of mine that make me feel like I am stupid: chess loses, having difficulties understanding reading material, issues with schools, and even intellectual games. On the Internet once, I was challenged once to a geography game, where contestants were provided with a satellite image of the world (no borders, no words, all natural earth) and then were provided with a clue of a location on Earth and 30 seconds to click on where they thought it was. Points were calculated based on how fast a choice was made (ex. 5 seconds, 4 seconds, 25 seconds, etc.) and how close in distance it was to the correct answer (ex 200 miles, 600 miles, etc.). Say the clue was "I am the world's tallest waterfall," you would need to be able to locate Angel Falls in southeastern Venezuela (Guiana Highlands) in less than 30 seconds from memory. But even in such a competition I still couldn't make 1st place, and that is supposed to my my area of expertise. In chess, I lose a considerable amount of games against the computer and other players, and that's a game based on intellect and memorization. When I started to study Aron Nimzowitsch's theories earlier in the year I wasn't able to understand them well enough. School was always another area of hardship for me too.

How can I be certain if I am stupid or intelligent? If I am intelligent, how can I still have all these shortcomings, which I wouldn't think an intelligent individual would have? Whenever I am told that what I aspire to is impossible, I am inclined to describe the various polymaths in history, as surely they have accomplished all of this.

Apologies for this long rant. Needed to vent some of this frustration.

Well Mr V,

I don't think you are stupid at all. I don't necessarily "respect" someone just because they "know things" or "get great grades". There are "all kinds of smart" V, and not all "smart" is measured by a degree in college. There can be someone with a great degree and grades that never does anything with their life.

Now, you did have a period where you achieved and felt that people "noticed" you more. Did it every occur to you what really changed was how you presented a more "positive" person and that is really what "others" responded to?

I want someone to "listen to me". Do you know "most" people want that? And many people "don't seem to get that"? If most people "got that" this site would be out of business.

And I have lost track of the times I have heard people say they really didn't have a good friend they could just talk to and do things with. Many say, something always seems to "go bad" somehow. Well, that often happens because most people don't know how to "give and take" in relationships. Or a lot of people are just like you V, deep inside they "don't feel worthy enough somehow".

You know what my problem was/is? I am the "listener" and "giver". When I told my first T I was joining this site he told me not to. He told me that all I would do is give to others and not myself. Then he told me, to "see if I could ask for help or put "my" problems out there. Well, it took me a long time to be able to do that. I tried many times and just deleted. And then when I finally did one time, kept it up, the response was "odd" because no one could believe that someone with so much "advice" could have my problems. I still have to "make" myself do that and it always feels uncomfortable. But I push myself to do it somehow, even if it is while "listening and helping someone else.

I learned that when I was little, that is the constant message I got. I had to learn to "listen" to others because I was the youngest.

My T said, what do you do for "you" Open Eyes. Well, I have snuck things in, but most of the time, I am doing for "others" somehow. I used to love antiquing by myself. I learned how to buy things and fix them up for my home as well. And then I made a friend and one day she cried and said, "I am going to be 60 and I have no furniture in my house". So I took her out and learned about what she liked. She liked "Georgin Style Furniture" very fancy lines and well made. So, I took her to all my haunts and she slowly began to find funiture she "could afford to buy" that was nice as well. She never considered buying used quality antiques and funiture from the 30's that was good quality. I studied everything she was drawn to and when she could not go out, I would and find things I knew she wanted and put them on hold for her. She funished her big empty Georgeon Colonial. It took me a couple of years to help her with that.

When the PTSD got bad I had to give up some friends because I actually didn't have the energy to give to anyone. I have learned a lot about myself in dealing with this PTSD. Even in my own family, I was the listener alot, and if I talked about my struggles, I kinda knew I didn't have much talking time. I learned that "most people" just want someone to "listen to them" and so it was "easy" for me to collect people.
I didn't mean it that way either, it was just something I learned really well.

So V sometimes "what you think you need to be" isn't always really what you need to be. It sounds more like your father told you what you needed to be. And more than you actually achieveing what brings attention is, the way you express yourself when you do achieve.

We "all" have "shortcomings" V. Many feel they don't seem to "know enough" somehow. None of us "know enough" we are always "learning" our whole lives. So it is time to crack a smile, have "pride in what you have gained" and see if that pride can produce others being "more receptive to you".

It was not long ago when you posted pics and that got a lot attention. And I do remember you saying, what you did was not good enough, others have more this or that. Well, you were appreciated for what you "did do".

Chess? Geez, I have no idea how to play it, does that make me dumb? If so, I don't care, I am never going to be number 1 or the best, I am just going to keep learning and being me. I am impressed at what you know in how to play chess myself.

Open Eyes

I understand in theory how these feelings developed V. Association rules so much in early formative years. Those equations are the hardest to solve. Thank you for writing that out.

i don't even believe in "stupid"

everyone has their own way of dealing with things and their own brain capasity

hugs

If it helps, you write fairly well. You should hone that talent. I think it will serve you well.

There's no need to be the best. Simply accept where you are now in skills as where you are. A win or loss is no more than that: an expression of that specific time.

What might help, and what I would suggest is to only try to do better than you did the day before. Comparing yourself to others has a dual edge: it'll get you ahead once or twice, but you'll never reach the top if you're always looking to do better than Mr. or Ms. X. Fighting the potential of your cohorts won't help you find and surpass your own potential.

I think, and I may be wrong about this, but I don't think so, that talents aren't simply inherited or developed. An individual is an expression of biological, social and psychological factors that interact to create the present expression. People who have talent weren't simply born with it, nor were they simply trained, or trained themselves into become who they are. It's more complex than that. And that's the real problem of social comparison: no one's life matches that of any other.

By accepting who you are today, and becoming who only you can be tomorrow, you can transcend the expectations, and the judgement of others, and even yourself. That would be what I would ask you to do.

IQ, or intelligence, is merely a number, not a label. Accept it for what it is: a failed attempt at classifying millions of individuals into a simplistic tripartite hierarchy.

It's always ironic to me that whenever I talk about relationships I am told developing confidence will make others more receptive of me; the opposite has been the case for me. When I was noticed more, no, it wasn't because of how I presented a more positive person, as I believe I was the antithesis of that. Although I said I was noticed more as my grades improved, I certainly did not say I was more confident and felt happier, because that would be a lie. It was during this period that I started to SI more regularly, was institutionalized, tried to commit suicide, abused medication, and I was incredibly resentful, bitter, and alienated. What I used to do was scribble "failure" all over assignments before handing them in, burnt report cards and awards, refused to look at my scores and refused to be photographed, believe me, I was far from presenting myself as positive and more approachable. Undoubtedly I was more self-destructive than I had ever been before this period.

But ironically it was during this period of my life that I had the most success with women. Several female classmates were interested in me, although I didn't take advantage of this, because I was too focused on academics and self-destruction to think much of relationships. I started high school believing that I was unlovable and that I could only change this with perfection, a paradox, yes, but it was how I developed.

Now as I attempt to be more confident and less bitter about the world I find it nearly impossible to find a woman that can like me, but I am told confidence is attractive, which makes absolutely no sense to me. Immediately after I was discharged from the hospital when I tried to commit suicide, I met a girl that whom I would later date in what was to become the best relationship of my life, and now, having managed almost a year without SI and working hard to improve my self-esteem, I am losing relationships (i.e., best friend stops talking to me) and experiencing endless rejections. Less people like me now.

Yet I am supposed to believe confidence is attractive? My experience tells me women are receptive when I ignore them and treat them like objects, which I know a lot of women here will object to, but I am speaking out of my experience of the then and now.

I taught myself how to play chess when I was about 12 years old. Non-chess players can't understand how stressful it can be, and the amount of pressure that exists to win can be unbearable. The social hierarchy the exists with chess ratings doesn't help that. Chess has caused more people to commit suicide than any other game I know of; I made a short list to demonstrate this to a friend last year. (Don't know if it would be appropriate to post on PC?)

I have difficulties with speech thus writing is much more natural for me, but, yes, I am told I am a talented writer.

How do I know if who I am today is good enough, Aoikaze? If I am never the best, than what possible worth can I have, other than being 'unique,' which really means little to me? The 'best' I can do is not necessarily worth anything. People aren't remembered because they tried, they're remembered for whether they succeeded or not, or that's how it seems to me.

Feel like such a failure.

Well, V, I am not going to "lie", it is true that people tend to follow and be drawn to those that make gains and do well, that is simply how we are designed, we can even see that in our lower primate friends as well. However it isn't always "a good deal" for the one that "is" thriving and doing well. After a while he/she begins to realize the "following' isn't about really "being liked", it is often more about what others can take of him/her and use for themselves. The other problem is the person who has gained still has to "push his/her own envelope" to keep and maintain that "high position" which is also "not so easy and often stressful".

I remember growing up that in my sister's class there was a young man that just seemed to have it all. He was very good looking, and popular and so many looked up to him or wanted to "be like him". However that popularity kept pushing him to "keep producing more and more". When he got a car, he began to drive it fast and had to keep his position and beat others and "push the edge constantly". I remember him speeding down our street so fast and his car was loud. He ended up pushing too far and his life ended when he hit a tree not far from the high school.

In my brother's class a similar thing happened there too. Again the popular guy and the creme of the crop also had to push the edge to "stay on top". That ended with them drinking a bit too much and this popular guy driving fast also hit a tree and his best friend was decapitated and the girlfriend valdictorian went through the windshield and lost her mental capacity. This "popular guy" was never the same either, he became a very troubled person for the rest of his life, riddled with guilt.

My husbands class, same thing there too, the five "most popular" another car, and a tree and only one walked away, and was left crippled in every way, physically and mentally.

Be careful what you ask for V, it is not always such a pretty picture from the top.

The one statement I always remember, it is not about the end of the journey, it is about the journey that makes life so interesting. It really doesn't have to be all about "being the best", we all seem to think that is important, but while "successes are enjoyable and rewarding" we really don't have to "be the best" to have a productive life.

Open Eyes

give me a mensa puzzle i can do with my hands.. done in record time and reverese and repeat. my mates think im a marvel... give me a simple maths eqausion thing.. like times tables and fractions or somthing. i cant do them. everyone is good at differant things .. doesnt mean your not intelligent.

I think you're confusing external validation with value. It might sound trite that what others think of you doesn't matter, but that is fact. They don't have to be you. Only you have to be you. William James referred to it as radical acceptance.

Let me be clear, I never feel like I've done my best at anything. I'm constantly involved in analyzing how I performed in this or that and experimenting with different outcomes to different actions. I've never felt like I handled a situation perfectly. I think I hear a lot of those same expressions from what you've said here, or something quite a lot like them.

The difference between doing your best, and being the best you is subtle, and it has little to do with uniqueness, or rather specificity of individual talents. Consider what what DaVinci would have accomplished if he felt that none of his works were worth saving. We know that he felt that none of his works were perfect expressions of his potential, but he still, nonetheless, produced and protected them. Consider what Abraham Maslow's contribution to psychology would have been had he felt (which he did at more than one point in his life) that what he had to offer had no intrinsic, permanent value.

Most fiction writers notwithstanding, there are gems that each produce that are usually left on their own desk, never to be read. Each expression is valuable, even if only in relation to the entire sojourn. Maugham's best work was also his worst in several ways.

I think, and this is only my opinion, that you need to accept the journey instead of the goal, and value yourself and your expressions in relation only to where you have been rather than where you are going, or where others seem to be.

It's all very difficult, particularly when you're male with an interdependent identity formation. I understand your pain when you express that it's hard for you to be happy when you're alone. I feel much the same way. Women are a wonderful addition and distraction. They can envelop you with their attention. While that may be bliss, it can also be stultifying. I think you need to develop a concern for and care for, not a love of, yourself before you can have a healthy relationship that is emotionally gratifying.

The distinction between care for and care about is profound. Care for implies action. Care about does not. I would suggest looking into Karen Horney and Erich Fromm's theories of personality. I suggest both because they were married at one time and their theories dovetail even though their relationship was toxic to both of them. Fromm's Humanistic Psychoanalysis may give you some clues as to how, and why, to consider your own needs, and your own products (thoughts, goals and behaviors) as both valuable and malleable.

I think you need to care for your own development so that it's easier for you to recognize it when someone cares for your development, and so that you can appropriately care for theirs as well.

[quote=Mr. Venomous;2721560]People on PC (and in real life) tell me I am intelligent but the seemingly endless struggles I experience understanding what I am learning or being taught appear to refute that claim.

Intelligence is significant to me because it is the single characteristic of mine that I have ever been valued and respected for, since I have, for as long as I can remember, failed at about everything else. As a child, when I used to reflect on relationships and why it was that I was abused and disliked so much, I noted the connection between academic performance and relationships when I observed that the children whom excelled in school were treated better than the ones who did not. Later, I concluded that the abuse I was forced to endure was a consequence of low academic scores (i.e., being stupid). It was this that motivated me to attempt to master and learn everything I could to be less stupid and reduce the abuse in my everyday life; to a degree, I was successful in this, because as my scores improves staff at school treated me better, I was bullied less, and while abuse still occurred in my household, it was of a different kind. Academic scores and intelligence thus became critical to how I see myself and the world around me.

But when I recurrently encounter situations that I feel reflect negatively on my intelligence or lack thereof, it is a threat to all of what I value and wish to achieve, thereby making me feel anxious and contemplate suicide. Indeed, in 2011 when I drafted plans to commit suicide out of issues with university, I believed (and to a lesser degree still do) that failing to achieve a formal education would forever condemn me to failure, especially with regards to relationships - how could a woman, or anyone for that matter, accept me if I failed at that? While that might seem absurd to those reading this now, I feel like I am regularly treated with disdain for exactly this reason, and it was because of this that originally prompted me to delete my Facebook account.

When I am told I am intelligent I can never sure to believe it because I always see intellectual shortcomings of mine that make me feel like I am stupid:
How can I be certain if I am stupid or intelligent? If I am intelligent, how can I still have all these shortcomings, which I wouldn't think an intelligent individual would have? Whenever I am told that what I aspire to is impossible, I am inclined to describe the various polymaths in history, as surely they have accomplished all of this.

Hey Mr V,
It has been a while, so I thought I would stop by and say hello.
How have things going and how are you reacting?
I ask you this because I read one of your post and was concerned.
I know that you strive/expect for perfection and anything less you equate to failure.
Where did you get this concept from?
Maybe your parents should have thought before they spoke to you, Discouragment, To make a child feel nothing less that perfection is a disappointment, words like this will not only hamper a childs ability to grow and learn in a safe enviorment.Surely this will this destroys a childs ability feel positive about themselves. It skews the childs perception on how they think and how other people see/think about them.
Words like you should try harder, even, you are better than this can be damaging and causes confusion, despair, and the child begins to look for ways out. But if you do not have a good foundation/base to stand on you will continue to find yourself on unstable ground. Not having a safe place to return to to start over.
Now you are a young man, not your parents child and have the intellegence to make your own foundation/base to build the truth with positive thoughts/images of self worth.
Managing your mind, your thinking, and thoughts. Honestly do you think you are stupid, no.
You can rise above this and you will. Trust in yourself and use your intuition before taking on tasks that will lead to disappointment.
Dont trust people that try to put you down or that lie to you.
I read your post, I read the replys. I read your responses to the advice given and I hear alot of frustration/anger in not being understood. You are geting good advice but your heart sounds bitter with resentment and that is a cold/lonely place to live, even if you are right, there is a time to come in from the cold.
Start anew,
Happiedasiy

Hi.. i wasnt going to message or really do anything i guess but just take a look and see what the site has to offer for me.. your post changed my mind tho. i feel its important to tell you first i dont always make sence and can ramble when talking about these things.. sorry if that is too much for you.. but you made me not feel so alone.. thanks for your post misters..

I felt like i was smart for the most part.. i dont think i really thought much about it... i was never dropped on my head or injured in a way that can explain why i dont learn like every one else. i thought my self to read and write and that didnt happen till i was in the 4th grade and even longer to really use words other then i the ones i had down padded.. i got away with this simply cus i didnt raise my hand for the help i needed cus i had the other kids always laugh at me.. i was in the 1st grade when i had first started this * not doing it * behavour ( as seen in my spellling ) i repeated that year needless to say but after that year i was moved to a new school where i got to ride the short bus cus thats the only one that went that way.. as a kid i had no idea the jokes.. i was laughed at and had no idea why so i hid alot and often ate alone hiding under the slide so i wouldnt be noticed..
At home my life was pretty normal. i wasnt abused till i was 13 years old.. i was never beaten unless it was my sisters.. but i cant learn and keep what i learn for much of a time unless i have high high interest.. and even then.. i cant and it makes me feel so stupid.. i feel more stupid when the ppl around me no long no how to talk to me.. im 31 years old and i started my depression/anxiety/paranoia/eating disorders when i was about 15 years old.. i knew i had a social anxiety problem when i watched a comercail for zoloft if you can pic that... I WAS SHOCKED.. THAT WAS ME.. BUT WHO DO I TELL? and so i didnt and i masked my every feeling.. i can control alot of this by the help of doctors and family and what not.. but the stupid feeling NEVER GOES AWAY.. i cant use alot of sites for talking cus i just sound like this and no one understands me cus i cant hold a converstaion with out me asking them * what does that mean? or where was that or when was that.. lol.. its not funny for me but i cant help but laugh some times cus i wonder... i really do wonder.. what they ment and i cant understand what they ment if i dont understand the word they used.. or i dont why we have labour day half the time.. i get confused.. is that the day we dont were white the next day? is that the day we remember the war vet? isnt that rememberance day? AND I DO THIS EVERY DAY.. I think we judge our selves so much we hurt more and thats what we see more or think more about.. for me i think.. i have to understand why i am the way i am. why i seem to smart and funny.. half the time no one even knows im sad mad or whatever.. it was shocking for my family when i told them just 2 years ago about my abuse when i 13.. but since then i feel like i have been more honest with my doctors and more willing to get help.. im waitinf or mental health to see me and its looking like a long ways away.. but when im there with them.. i plan to ask them to really take a look at me and help me understand.. cus i cant handle not knowing.. i think its taking a part of me away every day.. i dont have much left...

sorry for my rant / comment it kinda turned into both huh?

As Albert Einstein once said, “Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
In other words, there are almost as many types of intelligence as there are people. There's logical (seems to be the one you most equate with the term "intelligence,") spatial, linguistic, musical, interpersonal, intrapersonal, kinesthetic, naturalistic, and existential. As there are different types of intelligence, there are also different types of learning, mainly visual, auditory, and tactile. Perhaps you haven't found your fit yet.

Unfortunately, I don’t have the energy or the time to write a long response, and I am behind on sending replies to VMs, PMs, and emails because I have been active in the community, or in other words never home. Tomorrow I won’t be home until after 10:00 PM, and I don’t think I will want to do anything but go to bed.

However, I am always afraid of being stupid because I feel like there is absolutely nothing else about me that is worthwhile, therefore if I am not intelligent, I am nothing. People tell me I am intelligent, but I don’t see it, all I see are faults of mine. If there is always someone better, than why like me at all, why not like those that are better? Some of the men I hang out with have graduated from major universities, and the fact that all I have is a high school diploma makes me want to crawl into a corner and hide.

Just feel so stupid all the time, or more accurately not good enough.

There's a better step right there V. Getting beyond feeling like you're stupid to feeling like you're not good enough. The latter is real enough. Not a great feeling either but valid. Many feel like this to varying degrees...it's bugging you a lot. That's easy to see and workable from that point of view. The previous is you battering yourself. Likely at a particularly low point....and based on the exaggerated emotion extant. Sound right?

I'm not the brightest coin but by God I can see a few things. Not seeing it all right now doesn't diminish my intelligence. Evolution V. You're not exempt from having to evolve...you can't reach any heights without putting in time and effort. It's way too easy to bemoan what you don't or may never have. Damn bad habit to acquire. You fight that....and listen here...try to write that stuff you mentioned on the other thread. Resume building it is and the growth in building that, is nothing if not pro-active concerning your future and personal growth. Doing stuff moves you forward. Staying in neutral ain't it and you know it. Please shake this miasma enough to take a step or two further. Forward is forward. 2kph or 100. Yes.

Hey...I just noticed...you mentioned being active in the community...does not this help with some of your difficulties? What sort of things are you involved in? You must be proud and interested or surely you couldn't be bothered to do this. Anyway...I repeat...what-ever your situation...write the articles or whatever the magazine folks are after. Would likely be good for you. Cheers V.

Hi V. I'm on the opposite side of the gender fence here, but have had a similar experience. I do think that quizzickle is right, it is more about feeling inadequate than simply being flat-out stupid. But when you've given up on every other facet of yourself and put all of your efforts into one area--i.e., your intellect--and you watch yourself fail over and over, I suppose it's that much more devastating because you know you have "nothing else to offer."

So being female, my entire worth (according to everyone else) is placed on my looks. It shouldn't be this way, and I wish it wasn't, but it still kind of is. And I, of course, was not particularly good-looking, and even committed the "sin" of being fat. I was pretty much tortured for this in school. So I decided to lose the weight and I did. I wasn't any more confident--it was the start of an eating disorder, of course, which I still struggle with 8 years later--but people at least stopped spitting in my face (literally). They just kind of left me alone, and once in a while I'd have a friend! Amazing, right?

So I figured, heck, I'm not good-looking at all, I'm completely socially retarded and awkward, I can't do art, but I can do math. I'm actually pretty darn good at math. But never, ever was I "the best." I was never really noticed for it, and when I was it was treated more like a cute parlor trick (because, you know, "girls can't do math"). I tried and tried and tried to dig up some self-worth for myself based on my academics. But that never worked, and it never will. I just ended up falling on my face over and over again.

You're smart. You write well and can express yourself. That's something. Not everything, but something. I don't believe that "everyone is the best at something," but I also think the emphasis on specialization is completely wrong. What has helped me (though I have a far way to go to having something even remotely close to "self esteem") is to go back and look at all those other things I gave up on because I had absolutely no natural talent for them. Yes, my "best" talent is probably more academically based, but it's not all I have to offer. So there are 2 or 3 people in my class who are better at math than me. It still hurts, it hurts a lot because I'm ridiculously competitive, but I do more than just math now. It's not as easy for me to "calculate" how much worse I am than them, if that makes any sense, because I have a couple of other feeble talents as well, so that adds something to my self-worth.

And just remember: a lot of the people who are just ridiculously good at everything are conceited jerks anyway.

Your explanation seems accurate, Quiz. I am always feeling inadequate: financially, intellectually, academically, professionally, socially, etc., and consequently I am forever pressuring myself to be the best in an endless cycle of self-destructive learning. Whenever I tell people that I have absolutely no knowledge on common subjects (ex. movies, cartoons, stories, etc.), they find it funny, but the reality of that is because I force myself to study, learn, and be smart that I rarely have allowed myself time to relax and to have some entertainment.

Yes, I am active in the community and several organizations, and while it helps, I still struggle with an almost constant feeling of unworthiness. Much of what I do is connected to politics and policy, hence I attend numerous rallies, speeches, and conferences, and I am also a regular blood donor. Last Tuesday, I was at a hotel in the city and had my photo taken with an international activist and author, which was exciting.

Indeed it is devastating to fail repeatedly at something when that is all there is to me, whoswho. Your issue with looks is similar to mine; when I was a child, I was beaten and abused daily, even had my life threatened, for making mistakes, and I was horribly bullied by students and staff alike for being developmentally disabled and for poor scores. Child services was involved once when I told a teacher that I would be "beaten" if I went home with the test score I had, and it's true, I would have been. People spit in my face (literally) for academic scores.

I concluded as a child that if I was more like the "smart" students than I would be liked and accepted. Both appearance and social skills aren't positive qualities of mine: I abhor my body, with crooked teeth and a skin disorder, and I have almost never had friends in real life.

When I became a high school student I was definitely angry and alienated. I was on a mission to be perfect and wouldn't stop or slow down until I was, because I was tired of being treated as inferior and like a failure. People have always respected me for achievements and nothing else. When I was in the 8th grade, I was in remedial math, but when I reached high school, out of determination and frustration, I finished with almost a 100% grade and completed the final exam with a 102% score. Later, I would be a grade ahead of my peers in mathematics, having completed a history class before my peers and opted to start an extra mathematics course instead of having a free period. Additionally, when I started to do more competitive chess and when I was earning numerous awards in geography, people respected me. I would undoubtedly challenge and correct my teachers if they made a mistake, especially in geography.

People respect academic and intellectual achievements, and since I really don't have any other redeeming qualities, it is paramount that I am successful and intelligent.

I have encountered difficulties with relationships because it doesn't make sense to me that someone can actually like me for who I am - what is there to like?

Whoswho, you say that a lot of those people who are just ridiculously good at everything are jerks, but even if that is true, many of them have relationships. In fact being a jerk seems like an asset for a man to build a relationship with a woman, because the amount of women that are attracted to jerks is innumerable.

I would like to be a) successful (i.e. not a failure), and b) to have a loving relationship, neither of which I am confident about. If I was less of a failure than I would be loved.

Wow - aren't I a mess? Maybe there is nothing that can be done to fix me. I feel like a lost cause every waking second of my life.

I was unaware that being in a relationship meant that one is not a jerk or had anything to do with one's morals... Where is the correlation between being single and being a jerk?

I've read some of your other threads and this seems to be a problem for you. I'm certainly not the most experienced of knowledgeable about relationships, but to casually generalize that "all women are attracted to jerks" is kind of demeaning. I mean, I can turn around and say, "well, all men are attracted to sluts." Right? And I can even say that to a limited extent (quite limited, indeed!) that this is true, but for one thing, going out wearing as little as possible without getting arrested probably won't get me a relationship, or at least not one that I want.

Just ask the women of PC: I'm sure most of them would say that they appreciate a partner who is understanding, compassionate, etc. I don't think I've ever had a friend ask me, "You know, I really want to date a guy who is a total *** all the time. Do you know where I can find one?"

Being single doesn't mean you have to be lonely...

Sorry to be the one to ask the abstract questions here (I studied philosophy before deciding to do something employable ), but what is "success"? You mention waning a loving relationship and success... how will you know when you are successful? One day you wake up and just realize, "Yes, I AM successful"?

And maybe reconsidering the "I really don't have any other redeeming qualities" part. I mean, you're not a jerk, right?

I guess I should have something enlightening to say about self-esteem and whatnot but I don't because I also have none. I have a hard time taking compliments because I feel like the person is either lying and trying to trick me into doing something or I somehow misled them into thinking something good about me. But the one piece of advice I have about this came from someone much wiser than myself, who said, "I have the right to form my own opinions about you." It reminds me of the saying, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." So even though I don't agree that there is anything--ANYTHING--likeable about me, it is the other person's opinion, and they have a right to their opinions, right...?

Interesting topic. I grew up with parents who barely got through high school & their intelligence level was definitely NOT the greatest. In school, I was always told that education is your way to success.......so even though I had to work harder at getting the good grades than some, I put in the effort & got the good grades.........so obviously, when I was in college & the guys I met, it was important if I actually chose to get married, I wanted to marry someone intelligent....so that I wouldn't marry someone like my parents who I worked so hard myself be at a higher intelligence level than they were. I worked hard at my classes & my major because I wanted to earn my way out of where I was born, not marry out of it.

Ended up meeting a guy in my computer science major......claimed how intelligent he was & in high school how well he did.....in college, he did poorly because of attitude, saying that he did bad in the classes that he knew he was smarter than the professor (very BAD ATTITUDE!!!!). I realized just how bad that attitude was right before the wedding we ended up planning & stupidly went ahead with the marriage anyway....my mother who knew nothing about relationships nor intelligence said he would become responsible when life forced him to be......WRONG!!!!.

Unfortunately, I learned over my years of living that intelligence & wisdom are 2 different things. One can have a very high IQ & have no wisdom at all & absolutely NO common sense. I learned over the years that one is better off having common sense & wisdom than intelligence any day. I balied our marriage out of mess after mess until I finally had enough......gave it 33 years because most of the time I hid away from it in my own career.....but after I lost my career & realized how trapped I ended up with this guy who then I had to depend on......I realized that my life was really in a hopeless place at that time......& tried to end my life way too many times to even keep track of because I saw that as my only way out.

Thanks to God, I wasn't successful & now I have a wonderful life on my own where as soon as I successfully get the divorce completed once the last financial mess he made gets finalized, I honestly have no desire to have my life tied to anyone else EVER AGAIN. I don't want to deal with someone elses lack of wisdom that will end up messing up my life.......if my wisdom is bad....I will deal with my own consequenses...I don't want to have to deal with the consequenses that someone else dumps on me.....someone who may have a high IQ & had intelligence in the upper numbers but who has absolutely NO WISDOM or common sense in how to handle the every day things that come up that need to be dealt with.

I have learned to judge people who I allow to touch my life in ways that will effect me by their wisdom & common sense.....not by their intelligence.