[Sally met Harry]

Desperate for closure; feeling hopeless. Bullet point narrative to follow:

-I'm the other woman (also married myself)
-No sex involved, but came close a few times
-I tried to pull away gradually before Christmas
-He broke it off completely (saying he needed to be able to tell his wife she's the only person in his life and that if he sees me, he wants me)
-After Christmas break, he begged me to take one of his classes
-I thought about it, but chose not to
-He was upset, but then tried to get me to commit to being friends again
-I was hesitant, thinking that he would break that bond too, but finally agreed to coffee
-I still wasn't sure and I felt extremely hurt and confused, so I went back and forth on the friendship thing, but always came around after he worked his charm; I said I didn't want to do anything else to hurt his wife
-One day, though, I said I really needed space; he sent me a sweet friendship promise message for whenever I was ready to try
-I called to ask him a question and sometime during the call, things went very wrong: He started asking about my sex life at home and accusing me of being a pathological liar. He was screaming at me and calling me a liar, accusing me of embellishing.
-I hung up on him, but he called me back: I was sobbing uncontrollably, and the phone went dead
-The next day (after a few confusing/accusatory/yet friendship bidding emails), I stopped by his office. He said he wanted to kiss me somewhere and did. On my ear. He then put his hand down my back, and whispered that this is why he can't be alone with me in a private space
-The next day he asked me to stop by his office. He had the blinds pulled. He was very physically aggressive, ordering me to touch him, to kiss him (down there), and saying let's f and get it over with. I said no. I asked if he loved me. He said "love ain't got nothing to do with it. I don't even like you. This is chemical." I'm ashamed to say I did the other things he asked me to do, but not to completion. Later he said he loved me again.
-The next few days, he told me things about his home life, that he had been impotent at home, that he thought it would be more beautiful with me, that his wife is beautiful but that I'm sexy
-I told him that I only wanted to be friends; he got on his knees and said that he would do his very best to build a secure bond for us, but that he was powerfully drawn to me; he said I'm the most beautiful woman he's ever known.
-He sent two emails later: one saying that he wasn't talking about a hierarchy of beauty and that if he was I would win, and the other saying that he knows he puts too much pressure on me, but that it's because he trusts me and loves me madly
-Going crazy with contradictions, I sent a cutting ties email
-He sent a "Last Word" poem the next day
-After three days, I missed him and sent an email asking if we could be friends
-He agreed and asked me to call. When I called, he told me that he asked his wife about the possibility of my keeping their kids when he goes to Boston in March (he supposedly told her about a brief kissing session between us back in October), and that she said she wasn't ready for that yet, but she seemed calm. However, he said that later she called him during class drunk insisting that he come home. She was raging and said there were things she could only say when drunk.
-I asked if he thought we should postpone our friendship. He said he could go either way on that, but that we should plan to meet for coffee that week.
-The coffee meeting went well
-He left for Kentucky that weekend and sent me an email upon returning, saying that his wife was raging and that she had told a friend about our "affair"; he said we needed to "lay low"
-He then sent another message saying that she tried to access his email and was accusing us of still having an "affair"
-I don't know if he ever told his wife at all. Seems like this behavior would have happened back in October instead of now
-I'm reeling because he begged me back into his life, I finally got to a place where I could accept the friendship, and now he's adopted an impenetrable way to kick me out of it that may or may not be true
-Though I was ready to pull away over the Christmas break and was starting to heal, now I feel horrible about my behavior, I feel cut off from closure, and I'm completely obsessed, to the point that I almost stopped by his house
-He's seeing someone else; I'm almost certain of it
-I feel guilty, out of control, and sometimes (unjustifiably) suicidal
-I don't understand what's happening to me

Objective Advice?
Sally Met Harry

[Travelinglady]

I feel like I need to be blunt. You probably know this info on some level anyway. I don't think the two of you can ever be "friends." Perhaps he is hanging on to you in case his marriage doesn't work out. But it's not appropriate in my book for someone to be the "other woman." Plus a man who would cheat on one woman is likely to cheat on another. You now have an enemy in his wife, and I wouldn't think you would want to encourage your reputation. He is breaking his vows to her.

I wouldn't respond to any attempts to him getting in touch with you nor try to see or contact him again. If you need to, then see a therapist to help you break away. Then go out with girlfriends, have some fun, etc. Maybe even try to forget men for a bit. After awhile, then you can look for a man who is decent and will love you and you only, and not make you feel like a boomerang.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Sally met Harry

"I don't even like you."

Being liked is a hard requirement for friendship. He cannot be your friend if he does not even like you.

Besides... oh well. But this one is very clear. Since you asked for "objective advice", you have got it.

[hamster-bamster]

1) Are you in a Liberal Arts college somewhere?

2) I agree with you that your suicidality is not justified. Are you seeing a professional for that?

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Sally met Harry

He said "love ain't got nothing to do with it. I don't even like you. This is chemical."

now he's adopted an impenetrable way to kick me out

Sally,

I have reread your post, although I scanned part of its without getting into details.

What stands out is your amazing vocabulary. If you are an undergraduate, you are guaranteed a high GRE Verbal score. If you are a graduate student, you have already excelled on GRE Verbal.

That said, you make an impression of a person who missed kindergarten back then yet has been able to advance to higher education.

The fact that being liked is a hard requirement for friendship is learned in kindergarten. People learn this fact far earlier than they learn to use various words with the stem "penetr" or experiment with actions described by such words.

As people grow older and enter adulthood, they are faced with friendship issues that are more complex than those they faced in kindergarten. Say, "can you convert a relationship that was sexual in the past, to whatever degree, into friendship?"

But the core requirement of being liked remains.

If he told you that whatever he experienced towards you was animal attraction but he did not even like you, you should have immediately stopped any attempts at friendship.

[Sally met Harry]

Thank you. I'm in grad school--almost done. I wasn't clear, though, in writing about the "I don't even like you" thing. He said differently before and after, but at the time, he was almost in a rage. The fact that he was in a rage and ordering me around should've red-flagged the interaction, too, but I wasn't thinking rationally. I had been on a roller coaster for so long that I was disoriented and unsure about my own worth and absolutely uncertain about what I wanted long-term. I see now that I needed to walk away, see that I needed to walk away many times before. I tried, but he always coaxed me back. The truth is, though, that he is incapable of liking or loving or having real emotions. And I guess I was susceptible to his charms and even the push-pull must've been affirming in some sick way. I'm trying to figure out now why I allowed myself to be subjected to that once, much less over a period of months. I have best friends--friends who like and love me. : ) From almost day one, he was referring to me as his best friend. Put that in the context of "I don't even like you," and it was just another confusing contradiction to digest.

I'm hoping for better now. I answered your private message. Thanks for that. I feel the fog lifting from my brain. My fear now is the next unavoidable encounter with him. I'm strong until he says something to me. Then the demons are unleashed.

Sally Met Harry

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

Sally,

I have reread your post, although I scanned part of its without getting into details.

What stands out is your amazing vocabulary. If you are an undergraduate, you are guaranteed a high GRE Verbal score. If you are a graduate student, you have already excelled on GRE Verbal.

That said, you make an impression of a person who missed kindergarten back then yet has been able to advance to higher education.

The fact that being liked is a hard requirement for friendship is learned in kindergarten. People learn this fact far earlier than they learn to use various words with the stem "penetr" or experiment with actions described by such words.

As people grow older and enter adulthood, they are faced with friendship issues that are more complex than those they faced in kindergarten. Say, "can you convert a relationship that was sexual in the past, to whatever degree, into friendship?"

But the core requirement of being liked remains.

If he told you that whatever he experienced towards you was animal attraction but he did not even like you, you should have immediately stopped any attempts at friendship.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Sally met Harry

My fear now is the next unavoidable encounter with him. I'm strong until he says something to me. Then the demons are unleashed.

Sally Met Harry

Summoning some sense of humor would help. This is always the best ammunition.

My goodness. I thought my own situation was a bit of a roller coaster! I'm a little breathless trying to keep up with what's transpired.

I'm not familiar with your story; is this fellow a professor?

I wish I could offer you some advice. Truth is, I'm not good with situations like these as I tend to have a similar response as you do - a few sweet nothings and I'm broken. That said, just know that I can sympathize with your struggle. I hope that you will be able to sort this out and perhaps be strong enough to say no to his contact.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by FrightenedRabbit

I'm not familiar with your story; is this fellow a professor?

FrightenedRabbit: yes, A professor, but not Sally's professor. The fellow did try to persuade Sally to take his class, but she declined.

[Sally met Harry]

I met him in class, though. As an undergrad. Wish I could back up and be smarter. Really, really wish. It's mostly the guilt over my choices now that's gutting me. That and the fact that when I see him on campus, he asks "are you okay?" and takes opportunities to say "I'm proud of you" when others are around. It's condescending. What's worse is that I'm teaching a class for the first time, using his textbook. There's a strange power dynamic at play. He's been my mentor since 2006. A nasty spot of bother.

Plus, I still don't completely understand why I became so fixated on saving our friendship. I was against it . . . and he begged and pleaded, saying things like "don't make me carry around your absence for the rest of my life" and "I'm ready to spend the rest of my life making up for all the pain I caused." Once I agreed, he was gone within a week. It's a head game, I guess. And it works. I didn't know what hit me. But it was always true that we couldn't be friends. I knew it, but let him convince me otherwise. I'm wiser now. And I paid dearly for that wisdom, psychologically speaking. Looking back I see that it's been push/pull the whole time. I said multiple times that it felt like he was constantly changing our space. There was no stability. Don't know if he did that intentionally, or if he just is so impulsive that stability isn't possible. No matter. I shouldn't have been there in the first place. Wish knowing that made it hurt less.

Thanks for all feedback . . .

[hamster-bamster]

Sally...

"-The next few days, he told me things about his home life, that he had been impotent at home, that he thought it would be more beautiful with me, that his wife is beautiful but that I'm sexy
-I told him that I only wanted to be friends; he got on his knees and said that he would do his very best to build a secure bond for us, but that he was powerfully drawn to me; he said I'm the most beautiful woman he's ever known.
-He sent two emails later: one saying that he wasn't talking about a hierarchy of beauty and that if he was I would win, and the other saying that he knows he puts too much pressure on me, but that it's because he trusts me and loves me madly
-Going crazy with contradictions, I sent a cutting ties email"

You are right. He was full of contradictions. If he does not believe in a hierarchy of beauty (I agree with him on that), then why make a pairwise comparison between you and the wife?

Just to offer for you to consider... develop a policy on acceptable compliments. My policy is: "Superlative or regular adjectives but no comparatives".

With this policy of mine, I accept "sexy, beautiful etc." OR "the most... in my life etc." but never "you are ...ER than {person X}".

I think that pairwise comparisons are sort of debased and I do not want to stoop to that level.

Am I making sense?

[hamster-bamster]

I also do not think that you should have responded when he asked you questions about your sex life with anybody other than him.

If he discloses information on his sex life or lack thereof, with his wife (let us not discuss whether he was truthful), it does in no way obligate you to reciprocate by talking about your sex life. And his accusations, his claims that you were embellishing, were pretty outrageous.

[Sally met Harry]

Thank you. And yes, you're making perfect sense. The beauty comparisons and the sex talk were ridiculous. I see that now. I was inside a game, and I guess I was playing, too. I think I was susceptible to that because I needed affirmation I wasn't conscious of needing. I swear, this past week has been fog-cutting. I see clearly for the first time in almost a year. Again, thanks!

[avlady]

That's great!!

[winter4me]

You are both getting something, unhealthy but something powerful, out of this roller coaster. What does it DO for you? You may have to just go cold turkey, detox from this relationship. And, encounters are avoidable---do talk to a school counselor, bluntly.
Have you considered telling your husband? Painful, could be a loss but could be the way out also----

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by winter4me

You are both getting something, unhealthy but something powerful, out of this roller coaster. What does it DO for you? You may have to just go cold turkey, detox from this relationship. And, encounters are avoidable---do talk to a school counselor, bluntly.
Have you considered telling your husband? Painful, could be a loss but could be the way out also----

I do see your point in talking to some official in school because they might be able to exert some power to prevent the guy in question from contacting Sally. I do not think this is a necessary course of action because I think she will be able to handle her situation by herself (there is nothing in the account to suggest she won't manage, eventually), but sure, it is a possible course of action.

What would be a "way out" if she tells her husband? I might see some value in telling the husband along the lines of deepening the connection between Sally and the husband or what not, regardless of the guy, possibly, but how would the husband's knowledge of Sally's situation prevent the guy in question from approaching Sally? Or do you expect Sally's husband to somehow intervene on Sally's behalf, and if so, won't this step make an already drama-filled and complex situation even more complex?

[winter4me]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

I do see your point in talking to some official in school because they might be able to exert some power to prevent the guy in question from contacting Sally. I do not think this is a necessary course of action because I think she will be able to handle her situation by herself (there is nothing in the account to suggest she won't manage, eventually), but sure, it is a possible course of action.

What would be a "way out" if she tells her husband? I might see some value in telling the husband along the lines of deepening the connection between Sally and the husband or what not, regardless of the guy, possibly, but how would the husband's knowledge of Sally's situation prevent the guy in question from approaching Sally? Or do you expect Sally's husband to somehow intervene on Sally's behalf, and if so, won't this step make an already drama-filled and complex situation even more complex?

Re: the husband, I guess my thought was that it could help her put an end to this---once he knows, the "secret" is no longer and needs to be faced and dealt with; I think it also makes it Real, right now the description is kin to a fantasy-in-motion & has taken on a life of it's own in the dark, warm, growth promoting secrecy. I was not thinking of him intervening. This is clearly a two way street, she is hesitating but then inviting, pulling away and then calling him back, they are both playing this game. As for school---I was thinking more along the lines of altering schedule/classes/logistics to avoid the contact---the person she speaks to, if adm. doesn't need to know details, just that she has a need for certain changes, if a counselor, that person can help her work through this in the context of being there.
----I know Sally will handle this one way or another, she already is by hanging on to the roller coaster---they can be mighty addictive emotionally---I think it is important that she figure out what she "likes" about the situation that she continues in it.
I think if I couldn't bread a cycle like this, I might even transfer schools.
Sex is seductive, and it does seem it is more about sexual fantasy being lived out than an actual relationship between two adults. I do not see her as a victim here.

[hamster-bamster]

I do see all your points now, thank you.

I think there is value in solving problems without altering schedule/classes/logistics or even switching colleges if Sally can, because altering the logistics is a self-sacrifice/accommodation.

But if she cannot, then surely the next step would be the logistics.

I do not think that switching colleges is prudent though, because 1) too much self-sacrifice and hassle 2) there is no guarantee that the situation will not repeat itself - attractive female grad students would get approached by male professors of humanities in either college. The situation is not specific to this particular college.

I think it makes sense to switch colleges if there is something about the new college that was not there in the old college. Say, the new college is better ranked in subject ABC (just as an example). So you switch from old college to new college to end up with a more ratable degree. But since the presence of male professors is not unique to any college (I think they teach in all-girls private schools, even), there is no point in changing colleges.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by winter4me

I do not see her as a victim here.

Oh, agreed - I was only approaching it as a problem-solving exercise, without any perpetrator/victim dichotomies.

[Sally met Harry]

I'm so glad to have this resource. I have felt like a victim, to be honest. But I'm seeing it differently as I pull out. I got caught up in something--a game, perhaps--and I knew it wasn't healthy, but I was getting something out of it. Still trying to pinpoint that. I'm not generally a fan of drama, but I guess I liked the attention and the guarantee of constant interaction. It distracted me from schoolwork (among other things), and I made my first "B" as a grad student. Just didn't do the work. It's been a tough lesson. Emotionally traumatizing, but hopefully I'll come out on the other side smarter and healthier.

[winter4me]

attraction, and the underlying drama can be a powerful thing for most of us at one time or another. good for you for being able to step back and look. who wouldn't want to be the object of so much passion for a time, but it's generally not healthy---(:

[winter4me]

attraction, passion, very powerful (like a drug---made in your brain---maybe actually now that i think of it)----who wouldn't want that at times?---usually not healthy. good for you for being able to step back and look. and, hey, the writing is good---could be a romance novel in the making----. The education is what you need to focus on now, that can too easily get lost/sidetracked---the rest will work out, maybe some rough emotional waters but you will prevail.

[NWgirl2013]

I used a book years ago, being a long time self-helper. It was called "How to Break Your Addiction to a Person".
It was the closest thing I could find to what I was going through. It helped so much, especially to regain confident, control, and not feel completely crazy.

I also got a 12 Step devotional for women. A little extra reinforcement that kept me on track.
They say you can break any habit in 30 days.

We are not crazy when we are under the spell of one of these people. But we do have to get away. No matter what. Good Luck to you for real.