Messing around

Lately ive been messing with my meds on my own as im in a dark place and why not experement? So im supposed to take 30mgs of Lexapro and for the last couple days have taken 80mgs(im assuming its safe since it doesnt seem like very much) and i used up all my ativan in a couple days playing around trying to find a way to turn my brain off. Is this dangerous physically? I dont mean it would be better if i didnt health wise. I mean could i have kidney failure or some serious physical reaction? I also ran out of codeine in my playing which stinks but i can handle that. Just wondering if im risking anything besides mental stupidity when i do this.

Yes, you are risking something. For one thing, it takes a while for any dosage change to have an effect, so taking more on one day won't make any positive difference in the way you feel.

For another, while 80 mg of Lexapro may not "seem like very much", it's still more than twice the prescribed dose -- and it's four times the maximum recommended dose! You're already on a high dose of Lexapro, so you are taking risks by taking so much more than your prescribed dose.

If a little is good, a lot may indeed be dangerous. Since anti-depressants take weeks to affect mood, taking more than prescribed isn't going to make any positive difference. You're fortunate that the SSRIs are difficult or impossible to suicide on, but "messing around" like this isn't going to help you at all -- all you can accomplish is screwing yourself up even more. Why do that to yourself?

If you're in such a dark place, call your doctor.

I don't know much about ativan overdoses. Yesterday I threw all of mine in the garbage because they were getting old and last time I took one it gave me an upset stomach. Hope I don't regret tossing them...

I realize it wont physically have a change for me when i overtake. But in my head it makes me feel better. Kinda like when you have a headache and are in the car and you get home and you grab the asprin youve been craving. As soon as they are in you you feel slightly better that youve done something to help.

I read also that its impossible to over dose on these kind of pills. Thats one of the reasons i chose to overtake them instead of tylenol or whatnot lol. Im curious tho when you say all i can accomplish is screwing myself up even more. How? If i cant die and you didnt say any organs are in serious danger how can it be dangerous?

According to the very basic research I just did on this, at two web sites that you could have checked yourself, Lexapro can cause cardiovascular changes, especially in higher doses. So, it could be dangerous to your heart, it can raise your blood pressure, it can lenthen your QT interval -- which can lead to sudden death from cardiac irregularities -- and it can cause retinal abnormalities in laboratory test animals. It can also interact with drugs like aspirin and ibruprofen to put you at risk of abnormal bleeding or even stroke. None of those sound too good to me.

If you're really looking for something to make you feel better, and you know that taking more of the drugs isn't going to do anything more than make you feel as if somthing is different, how about looking for something safer? Are you in therapy? That could be wonderful for you -- and much safer than "messing around" with the drugs you're taking.

Let me ask you this: when you have a headache, what do you take for it? Do you take aspirin? How much? Are you of the "if two tablets are recommended for headache, I'll take four because this is a really bad headache" school of thought? If so, rethink that. Taking the recommended or prescribed dose is the best idea, because there are often points at which raising the dose does not increase the benefits. For Lexapro, while the prescribed dose may be a bit higher, the point of diminishing return is about 20mgs. You're already taking more than that, and that's about as much good as you can get out of it.

I'm sorry if this isn't what you want to hear. There are drugs I can see taking more of than prescribed, under certain circumstances, but never anti-depressants. No matter what the TV commercials tell you, these are very serious drugs, that have a lot of different effects in the body. What's more, so little is known of how they actually work that no one can really tell you the long term effects of taking them so irresponsibly.

I do hope you'll tell your prescribing doctor that you've been doing this. This is serious behavior, and it should affect the way your treatment is approached.

I am in therapy but it isnt going very well. Things seem slow to almost non existant in progress and its frustrating.

Haha you are correct. When i have a headache i actually do take more if its severe. And i start out at 4 for a slight and 10 for a major headache. I have proof in my head this works too as recently i had a tooth taken out that was bugging me in the past. I would cycle the medicine like take 5 every 20 minutes til the pain went away and found out 20 was what worked when the pain was untollerable. So the next time i took 15 and it still hurt,take five more and it went away. Anyway you can only imagine how much damn ibuprofin i was taking for a while there.

I think i have about 300mgs extra lexapro still to play with,but i guess ill find a new drug to overuse if its dangerous hehe.

I could never tell my prescribing doctor about this. Seriously what would happen? They would begin to treat me like a child,id get pissed and then i wouldnt have any meds cause id just quit everything in a huff. What i will do tho is ask if we can add something else to the mix cause this one isnt working very well.

I believe that each person functions different... That the dosage has to be observed closely and maybe some people do need more of it all to barely function normally...? I mess around too what the hell I have the money!

I know that a previous poster covered what can happen if you take too much of a med, but I have to add something also. I think what you're doing is very dangerous. I would be curious as to how old you are. Risking heart damage, eye damage, liver damage, etc. might not seem really scary to you right now, but down the road if you get sick and a a doctor orders tests and you find out something vital is not functioning as it should....this could be the cause. I would beg of you to quit messing with your medicine and find something else to occupy your mind. Also taking 15-20 pills at a time, for a toothache is risky. Just for future info.......tylenol can also harm your liver in a very bad way. So, please quit experimenting with any medicines.

Im 29 years old. When i took that much ibuprofin it wasnt out of boredom. I was in severe pain and needed to find a way to turn that pain off. I think thats probably what i was trying to do with my brain being so loud,taking more of the pills that make me feel better. Unfortunately it didnt work and now i know to find something else. Im sure its easy to say hey dont feel good call the doctor. I dont wont or cant do that. Leaving the house for me is a big deal and i get too scared. To me that kind of advice is similar to telling someone depressed to cheer up. Everything isnt as easy as it appears.

You're playing with fire, and you know it. Otherwise, you would not be concerned about being treated as a child if you informed your doctors of your conduct.

The dose of ibuprofen that you are consuming could lead to fatal gastric hemorrhage, or stroke. The high doses of the antidepressant and anxiolytic provoke enhanced acute effects, as well as severe withdrawal reactions. You place yourself at risk of some of the most severe but rare side-effects, such as fatal heart arrhythmia.

But all this is beside the point, isn't it. You're using the medications for symptoms they were not intended to treat. Ibuprofen is not meant to treat severe pain. Ativan is not meant to control "brain hum". Antidepressants are not meant as an acute supportive agent in the treatment of "bad spaces". If you insist on using wrenches as hammers, don't be too surprised if the tools don't work as you thought they might.

You also have taken pains to forestall reasonable criticisms of your conduct. The advice you have received is NOT like telling someone depressed to cheer up. You need to honestly discuss your symptoms and your conduct with your doctors, or you will continue to have less than stellar outcomes. If you keep on doing what you always did, you'll keep on getting what you always got.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

Whatever.

You are correct i am using wrenches as hammers. When one is desperate they use whatever they have available. If youve never used duct tape to fix something rather than the exact thing you should have than i dont know what to say.

If you look back at my question first off i didnt ask if there was someone around who could judge me. I asked if there was serious health risks and i got my answer. Feel free to ignore my posts in the future,thanks.

Hey man,
This is serious [censored]! I've done exactely like you. i've changed my dosage of medication, sometimes thinking more would make me feel better, or less would wake me up a little more awake. But it's just crap. I know it's [censored] listening to the mental health quacks, they haven't got a clue where we#re coming from, they have'nt been there. But honestly, you should stick to your prescribed dosage. Overdose and side effects can be real [censored]! The doctors won't prescribe you anything to 'switch your mind off' They only way to do that is to take illegal drugs, but they could lead to psychosis! I know I've been there. You need to tackle the problem as to why you need to switch your mind off. You gotta heal yourself from the foundations up, painting over the cracks ain't no good. It's serious [censored] [censored] around with your dosages, get help, get pissed or give up it's your choice!
Life is hard, but you gotta keep fighting, there is light at the end of the tunnel!

Going back to the initial post now.

First off, Shaymus, I have been in places so bad the only way I could see to get through it was to be made practically comatose until something happened that could relieve my pain. Believe me on that one -- most recently it happened in mid-August, and I ended up in the psych ER over it.

Here's a little bit of advice, based solely on what helped me.

My new pdoc looked over what had been tried before, and listened to what I had to say about what I needed. He prescribed a drug for hypertension, that reduces the pressure on the blood vessels, and it has done what I was hoping it would do. It worked the very first dose i took. It's well worth discussing your problems with your doctor, in the hopes that you can get an actual hammer to pound those nails in. Larry is right about that part -- taking a drug to address a problem it is neither meant to nor capable of improving is not the way to go. Talking to your doctor about what's going on, in order to find a drug that will address that problem directly is.

Another option for you might be a low dose of an atypical antipsychotic. While the name is scary, the effects are likely to be helpful. They're often used in very low doses for anxiety and to augment antidepressants, and to reduce the jitters that some antidepressants can cause.

If your doctor does prescribe something for you, though, it's in your own best interest to take it as directed.

As for the ibruprofen, I suspect that part of your problem in getting relief from it is that you're not giving it a chance to work. There is always a lag between when you swallow a pill, and when it actually starts to work -- it has to get to your stomach, be absorbed into the blood stream, and then start to go to work. For aspirin and ibruprofen, that is usually between about 20 and 30 minutes, but it can be longer depending on your metobolism, what you've eaten, how recently you've eaten, etc. Taking more of a drug before the last dose has a chance to work isn't all that helpful. That second dose is going to take just as long to work as the first one did, so you won't get any effects any sooner than if you just wait.

Once again, I strongly urge you to tell your doctor about your "messing around" with your doses, because -- regardless of what else it will tell him -- it will alert him to the fact that the medication regime you are on now is not adequate to your needs.

I was taking Seroquel for a while. I think i still have a bunch but they are somewhere in my mess of a room. The new drug doctor took me off of it tho and upped the lexapro to 30mgs. Thats an antipsychotic right? I remember freaking out when i saw what it was. It didnt help me very much except the very first day it put me to sleep and my brain was fuzzy.

Hell Yeah!!

Shaymus:

I just wanted to say please use caution when doing the things you're doing.

There is a risk involved. I'm not sure what it is. But it can't be good for your body. There can be toxicity levels. Do you live alone ?

Maybe the Seroquel will help you. Perhaps you could discuss it with your doctor. Seems like maybe fuzzy and sleepy might be helpful sometimes. It is for me.

Please use caution and if you feel these impulses you should definitely take it up with your M.D.

Please take care.

Good luck.
K.

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You are correct i am using wrenches as hammers. ...
If you look back at my question first off i didnt ask if there was someone around who could judge me. I asked if there was serious health risks and i got my answer.

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You're gifted at rationalizing your behaviour, anyway. I didn't judge your conduct. I described it. I used your words, along with ideas I've learned the hard way. It's up to you whether they fit you, or not.

The next time you do one of your ibuprofen overdoses, wait 12 hours, and go have a liver enzyme panel done. While you're there, order an occult stool blood test. It might save your life.

When you run out of these meds, what are you going to do next? You'll have to come up with a new scheme to satisfy whatever it is that is driving you now.

It's disingenuous to abuse your medication as you have done, and then argue that you had little choice. It's patently absurd to "use wrenches as hammers" when hammers are available to you. But those are tricks of the mind.

The thing is, you are arguing yourself down a narrow path. The further down the path you go, the harder it will be to honestly discuss this with your prescribing physicians. I'm trying to help you to not crash. Or to crash more gently, as I see a crash in the offing.

You can dismiss drugs like Seroquel out of hand, but at some point you'll have a reckoning. Have you considered the idea that the way you are using these meds is directly causing the disturbance in thinking that troubles you? When you disturb the brain's balance with drugs, and then cease using the drug, there will be a rebound effect that can take you to a worse place than where you started. The answer isn't more drugs, it's stable drug intake.

I self-medicated for twenty years. The inherent flaw in self-medication is that you can't be objective. You don't even know which details are the important ones. When the medication itself disturbs cognitive processes, the subjective experience becomes even more distorted. What seem to be adaptive choices may well be seriously maladaptive. An interested but emotionally detached caregiver (e.g. physician or psychiatrist) can be a very useful adjunct to self-care.

Whatever you are doing now, it doesn't seem to be working in your advantage. I base that summary statement on your own descriptions. I'm feeding back to you your own thoughts. I hope you reconsider.

Lar

Shaymus - When you read all these posts, I hope you notice how much care and thought goes into each one. People aren't posting to you in order to boss you around, or to tell some stranger what to do with his life.

People are posting to you because what you've written touched them. Your words made them think about you, care about you, and maybe even worry about you.

This community is coming together right here to help you. Please take care.

Emmy

Sheesh i did it for a couple days and have stopped now for a couple after i asked. Whats your point to continue harping on me when i said feel free not to?

You act like im still doing this and going to even more extremes. Btw it would be very easy to get more drugs anytime i want. I currently have two different drug doctors one that gives me samples and the other that gives me prescriptions. I still need to cancel the one i dont like but i keep forgetting.

I didnt just dismiss Seroquel out of hand. I took it for over a month and then a psychiatrist told me i should stop. How can you be nagging me in one paragraph to do one thing and the complete opposite in the next?

Just leave me alone Larry,seriously. Go take your subtle jabs and pretend to help someone else. Did you not read me asking you to before or did you just have to get in a few more blows?

emily-No thats not what was happening. I asked him to back off by saying "Feel free to ignore my posts in the future,thanks." and he wrote an even bigger post which starts off as a compliment for a negative trait. "You're gifted at rationalizing your behaviour" Gee thanks youre gifted at pissing me off Larry.

Subtle blows? Do tell. We are in dialogue. Hopefully, you find a way to tell your doctors what you have told us here. Nothing subtle about that.

Overdosing is not "messing around". A recurrent pattern of overdosing is something more again.

Feel free to ignore me in future. But, please don't presume to limit my opportunity to express my own thoughts in an open forum environment.

Perhaps your anger has another cause altogether.

Lar

I already said i would never tell my doctor. I already said im not overdosing the meds now. I already said my answers to the things you keep bringing up. Are you that hard headed? Do you read what im saying? Do you think someone who pisses me off has a chance to change my mind about anything? I dont,so whats the point of continuing like you do?

I dont have to look further than this post of yours to find the subtle blow to show you Larry. "Perhaps your anger has another cause altogether." Perhaps your consistant nagging at something i said has another cause altogether.

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I already said i would never tell my doctor. I already said im not overdosing the meds now. I already said my answers to the things you keep bringing up. Are you that hard headed? Do you read what im saying? Do you think someone who pisses me off has a chance to change my mind about anything? I dont,so whats the point of continuing like you do?

I dont have to look further than this post of yours to find the subtle blow to show you Larry. "Perhaps your anger has another cause altogether." Perhaps your consistant nagging at something i said has another cause altogether.

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HELL YEAH!!!

Did your doctor tell you why he wanted you to stop the Seroquel? (I don't know if that's one of the atypical anti-psychotics my pdoc discussed last time, can't remember.) It might be that the idea was good, but that wasn't the specific drug he would have chosen, or he could just be one of the doctors who prefers to use the fewest possible medications at any given time. If he didn't explain his reasoning, it's worth asking him.

At any rate, what I really wanted to say is much simpler than anything else I've seen in this thread so far:

If you're still having trouble on the 30mgs of Lexapro, I'd suggest you write down a list of all the symptoms that are still bothersome for you, and take it to your next appointment to discuss with your doctor. I've done this, and having a written list is very helpful. Without it, I tend to forget things that I really need to get help with, and end up more frustrated than before. The more information your doctor has about your daily functioning, the better the choices he can make for your treatment. Giving him the most complete information can help him choose a hammer for you -- or a ratcheted socket wrench if that's what's needed. (Hey, I like tools, so that's an analogy I want to keep working, 'K?)

Also, how long until your next appointment? And did all this come up in response to something that happened? Or is it an ongoing problem? That can make a difference, too, since it's better to treat symptoms that come up only in response to short lived stressors on a PRN basis, so that you're not loaded up on too many meds all the time.

As Emily said, this isn't trying to force you to do anything, or to criticise you -- this is me trying to reach out with some suggestions based on a post that touched something in me and made me want to help, if I could. If you don't find it helpful, please do feel free to reject that concern.

>>I already said i would never tell my doctor.

Right, because that would make you take responsibility.

>>I already said im not overdosing the meds now.

You also said that you had 300 more mg of Lexapro to play with, and that you had used up all your codeine. Your story is anything but reassuring.

>>I already said my answers to the things you keep bringing up.

You only first posted about these overdoses three days ago. You posted as if they are an ongoing behaviour. You posted that you have ready access to more drugs. I do indeed read what you say.

>> Are you that hard headed?

Trying to change the subject? My characteristics are not the central issue. You posted about recurrent overdose behaviour. You want to trivialize it. I don't think that's a wise decision.

>> Do you read what im saying?

Every word.

>> Do you think someone who pisses me off has a chance to change my mind about anything?

I have no idea why you're pissed. Dosing recommendations are not arrived at by chance. Taking multiples of the maximum dose of numerous meds is not a trivial behaviour. You're the one overdosing, and posting about it to a public board. I shouldn't be too surprised, if I was you, to hear opinions that were not in support of that self-injurious behaviours.

>> I dont,so whats the point of continuing like you do?

Because I want you to be honest about what you're doing. You spoke of desperate need. Why is that a secret from your doctors?

>> I dont have to look further than this post of yours to find the subtle blow to show you Larry. "Perhaps your anger has another cause altogether."

You're angry at yourself. You know I'm speaking the truth. Nothing subtle about that. And I'm not striking a blow. Trust me on that.

>> Perhaps your consistant nagging at something i said has another cause altogether.

I've told you what motivates my persistence. Have you read what *I* said?

Lar

Hi,

I am just now reading this thread, (or an attempt to remember all of it for my reply) Seems to me after all I have read, that I know I have in the past been thorough alot of what you went through.

Guess I just want to say, I think it is a good thing that you have stopped now the self experimentation pill popping process, and are back to from what I read just working with your Therapist and leaving the pills in excess alone.

The original question of physical harm seems to have been answered already. Some things in the past I didn't know that like when I would take 7 to 10 Excederine pills several times a day was that the asprin in them is bad on the stomach and that the generic tylenol (I cant spell the generic name right-acetimetifin?) is hard on the liver.

My self medicating for the most part more than likely had alot of bad effects on my brain so now I think I have brain damage, though seems can not be proven.

I guess when I was hitting all the different pills hard and am some ocd seems I was trying to escape. Like a way out. I guess for me at times I would just sit and count out the pills in numbers, looking and adding this and that. Lucky I was not to have died.

Telling your doctor is a big thing, never did tell mine as it is a choice of the matter. I guess I don't quite know what it is I am trying to say other than, it takes time to tell yourself you are in control of the pills and them not you. It is good you quit. Seems from my past each time it was a little more hard to stop myself from messing with the meds.

I dont do it anymore, though at times the temptation is really strong, and I just have to resist and tell myself that just aint the way to go. So much easier said than done, especially when my mind gets so overloaded with stress, hurt, and pain.

I hope you get this worked out and take care of yourself and are able to do your best from taking massive doses of the pills.

I wish you the best, and know it is not easy to change this way, even when you know it is not good for you.

Take care and Peace-Chris