getting depressed during the session?

*trigger warning for mention of sui- thoughts - please take care*
(edit: have re-read & split post into 2 parts. first part = part i would like help dealing with. 2nd part = major rant that turned this thread into something way off topic, but that i'm gonna leave up because i might try to discuss with pdoc tomorrow i.e., you kids dont need to read it).

part 1: on topic part of the post! if you are going to read & respond, please just read this.
does anyone else get this? not really feeling sad... or feeling that things are difficult, but that "depressed" sort of feeling (even if it doesn't last for more than a few hours)... loss of hope, futility in everything etc. i can have a really great day, go into therapy all excited about the possibilities about what we will accomplish, just not get things... working right... and bang - i'm there, i've clammed up, i'm feeling depressed, trying not to cry, wondering whether i should just leave the session before it's over because there is nothing in it for me.

even get the automatic thoughts re: sui- because hopelessness is my main trigger for those kinds of thoughts. the automatic thoughts scare the hell out of me, because they feel so impulsive, and i am so not an impulsive person - it's like - woah, where's my normal control gone??

i think it's because i see therapy so much as my hope, my source of support, my avenue for change... and when things don't add up i'm left feeling very alone with my crap, and that even the professionals can't help me. it's not even over big things like csa or something. just stupid stuff that most ppl deal with at some point in their lives.

would appreciate any advice, but even knowing i'm not alone with this would help.

part 2: deli's tipsy rant that no one need heed >>> i.e., please dont bother to read, i'm embarrassed at how carried away i became.
e.g., i am seeing Austin-T just to help me manage uni stress, and he spent the whole ****ing session (eta: nearly ) dictating a "plan" for me on how my next week would work out e.g., read chapter x at 1pm on friday, attend lecture at 3pm on monday etc. i even tried to stop him at one point and say "i know how to do this. i'm not an idiot, i've done this a thousand times before. i know what i need to do, and i'm capable of planning when to do it. i just need help actually getting from the final plan stage to the actual doing it part". but no, he was insistent that we had to plan out the whole week, because it was making my reality "concrete" and i needed to know what i was dealing with. and he kept getting (admittedly very minor) things wrong e.g., he said i had 12 chapters to read when i only had 8, and was trying to schedule me to read 12 chapters. so i stopped him and said "i'm confused about where the 12 chapters came from, because i thought i only had 8" and he launched into how i become very overwhelmed when things are written down in front of me and that is when i panic and dont cope anymore. ...errr? i mean, i'm not expecting him to be perfect, but i do expect someone to not turn their mistake into an example of my pathological thinking/behaviour.

anyway, so i was feeling foul about wasting time trying to get a schedule together, and then wasting further time when he kept getting things wrong. like i said, no big deal that he got it wrong (i certainly dont expect him to remember minor details), just why spend 20-30mins doing it when i'm capable of doing it at home by myself in the whole of 5 mins?

in the end i just gave up correcting his mistakes, because i knew it would get the task over with quicker. i just wrote down whatever he told me to, even when it had nothing to do with the task at hand (e.g., he wanted me to write down "AB Psych" as short for abnormal psychology - one of the subjects i'm enrolled in, and then he accused me of not doing it properly because i was writing down "A Ψ" instead. he made me go back and write it the way he wanted... even though "Ψ" is typical shorthand for psychology, and my only other subject starts with an "H"). so **** him. you know how ppl can just seethe anger? that was me, radiating it all across the ****ing room.

anyway, we finally made things "concrete" enough for him to decide to address the issue i actually wanted help with. and his great solution? he drew me the ****ing nike sign, and asked me if i recognised it. it looked like a tick to me, so that's what i said. and he was like, "no, it's a logo for an exercise company". oh wow. nike. right. and then he wanted me to tell him what their motto is. a) i dont pay attention to exercise companies. even if you gave me the little byline, i wouldn't be able to tell you if it was for nike or adidas or converse or what. and b) i was over the session, so i wasn't going to cooperate. so he writes it out for me "JUST DO IT". oh wow. like, i needed to go to 16 sessions to be told to "JUST DO" my uni work because that thought had never, ever occured to me before.

ugh. this post started off with me just wanting to know how to deal with depression/hopelessness in session, but instead it's turned into a major rant. i dont think i was this angry during the session - i was trying not to cry, and getting intrusive thoughts about various methods of sui- and giving up on everything. and then his grand plan was for me to "just do" my uni work, and i hate him right now. i did speak up and say that although it looked nice in theory, if it were that easy i really wouldn't be here looking for help. and he told me i had to at least try. like i haven't been trying for the past 7 ****ing years, yeah?

and that was our entire session. him planning out my next week, getting the details wrong anyway so i have to do it myself again, controlling the stupidest **** like where i was allowed to write certain words (he made me write things on the back of the page and told me exactly where to place them) and controlling how i was allowed to abbreviate them, and only addressing what i kept trying to ask for help with in the last 10 minutes, and telling me i just had to do it.

he did say i need to eat, sleep, exercise etc but he also said that's something for me to figure out myself. why for? he's been so controlling about everything else, why doesn't he just schedule those in for me? and especially because i've told him i need help keeping motivated to exercise, that i want him to keep me accountable while i get back in routine until i can just do it myself. but no, the bits i need help with are the bits i just need to do by myself, and the bits i can do are the bits he's going to take over and mess around with. the schedule he dictated was really no different from the one i did last week, but instead of looking at the basic question of "why didnt you read your 2 chapters each day when we had agreed to it", he thought it was more important to just write the same thing out again. why is next week going to be any different? nothing has changed since last. but then he says i'm not trying if i have that attitude.

im so sorry this is so long. i dont even know how much sense it's making. had a drink (with friends) tonight - first time this year i've touched alcohol & it's gone straight to my head (deli the cheap drunk!) - so forgive me if i'm just repeating myself over and over.

(((deli))) What to do when Ts just don't get it. I don't know.

(((((((((((((((deli)))))))))))))))

Well, to address the first part of your post....YES. TOTALLY. I can go into T feeling all sunny, or even basically okay, and something about being there....maybe it's the "space" he gives me with silence sometimes, or the knowledge that he knows everything, or the caring way he sits there and looks at me, or???? But yeah, things tend to totally hit me in the middle of session.

In a way, I kind of *hope* that's how it's supposed to work...that I can feel okay in my real life, and deal with the bad feelings there. At the beginning of therapy, I'd feel HORRIBLE in normal life and then see T and since I like him so much, feel like "oh, everything's fine now!" and then leave and feel like crap again. If I have to feel those feelings, I'd rather feel them there, you know?

Don't know if it helps, but you're definitely not alone

Deli,

I totally relate. T's have said to me that it's because you're there usually addressing difficult, painful, and negative/sad/depressing issues. You don't need therapy for happiness.

So by digging into those things you get down, feel pained, etc. It's a short-term pain/long-term gain thing. It's hard work, emphasis on both hard and work.

I've been getting really down during recent sessions. Start off high, or start feeling better, and then the boom drops. I also drift away, or dissociate though I'm not DID, when getting to the trauma roots. T says it's just so hard for me to hear that I tune out so that I don't literally hear or think about it. Negative feelings accompany those episodes.

It's normal.

I'm ignoring the rest of your post for now (didn't read).

(((((((((( dear Deli ))))))))))

(part 1) oh no! you are not alone! my experience is that the sadness comes in waves, or cycles, sometimes you just find a distraction (work or sleep or recreation) and keep going... and for me, doesn't matter whether it's old issues of the past, or current ones that I notice most people just skate over and I can't seem to. Here -

as for (part 2),
shiitake mushrooms!! what a story!!
I don't think you mentioned that T made you include him in your schedule for next week, would you go? (Deli, with innocent expression: "where was I? Were you on the schedule?")

Ya know Deli, Ts are such crafty folk... I can't help thinking he might have been going somewhere with it all... maybe you will hear what it is next time ... that is, when the urge to put a knot on his little head has passed...

IMO, we get enough of this in our every day lives, sure don't need it from T. You deserved to rant (good job by the way) SAWE

I had a session just like that today...which is one of the reasons I am cruising around PC...looking for consolation, distraction, whatever. And here I've found out I'm not alone in this...thanks for posting deliquesce

((((((((((((((((((ripley)))))))))))))))

((((Deli))))
About part 1: You are very much not alone in feeling that way. I also expect a lot from my session. Evenif I feel OK going in- something is said or not said or something gets brought up toward the end of the session and then the session ends. It could be anything- something more I want frm my t...the list is endless...but just like you said- I get depressed and start to think sui thoughts and wish she could read my mind how awful things are going here.
Any advice? Im thinking about what I have done.....b/c I KNOW I cannot leave feeling so bad. I have and then feeling sui after leaving therapy is horrible and hopeless. I think I have even said 1 word or sentence about what is going on inside my head. Just to say something to your t? I know it is pretty much impossible at some moments to say what is going on in your head. But to somehow communicate it. You said you are trying not to cry- can you just allow yourself to cry? That would communicate something. Your t would see that something is going on that can be talked about. I think I have actually said, "I dont want to leave here feeling suicidal." I also think in the past my t has taken me less seriously than she does now- that it is not some kind of bpd manipulation. Its better to take the risk, be uncomfortable and say it than have those kind of overwhelming compulsive thoughts then throughout the rest of the day. Your t could really then say something or whatever that would have made taking the risk very worth it. And you would then feel really good about the session.

Hope this made some sense.

about part 2- Jeez....I'd also go out for a drink with friends......this is a thought I have had in session when my t has gone on and on about something....maybe she sees Im in the twilight zone and just wants to pull me back in with ANY kind of conversation!

Anyway, Deli You are definitely not alone in feeling this way.....

Part 1:
Deli, if you can realize while in session that something happened there that made you feel depressed, that is in a way a good thing--you are in touch with your feelings and can experience them in the moment. When I have had something in therapy make me feel hopeless, I don't realize it at the time and I just suddenly find myself in the days following being very depressed. And I don't know why. It seems so random. I'm getting better at figuring it out and feeling it sooner. What I do if I can figure it out, is tell T in the next session that something in a previous session made me feel hopeless. And then we talk about that and work on it. Sometimes it comes out in my dreams and we do dream analysis to try to get to the core of what is bothering me. I do think the most important part it to tell your T. I don't think Ts intend to make us feel hopeless so would want to know this.

Part 2
Deli, is the part 2 with Austin T what made you feel hopeless? (I wasn't sure if there was a connection between the parts.) His behavior seemed over the top to me and I am not sure how he would respond if you told him you felt hopeless because of what he did. Would that be important to him? Would he want to discuss it and work through it? You have said before that you only work on uni stuff with Austin T. But if he is making you feel hopeless, can you shift away from uni briefly to deal with that? I don't think it will be that helpful if Austin T is making you feel hopeless but yet pdoc is the one you work on this with. It seems like if Austin T is part of the problem, he needs to be part of the solution.

You have said before that Austin T is OCD. It sounds like he was really out of control with that during your session. It's fine if he wants to be OCD about his own stuff, but about his clients' stuff??? You have also mentioned that recently Austin T started a new job. Perhaps he is stressed about that and his anxiety is exacerbating his OCD. I think he really should be informed of this, so he can rein himself in. Can you tell him how you experienced his behavior? (Would he listen?)

(((((Deli)))))

Part 1: I leave t feeling bad about 35% of the time, and there are many reasons why it happens. Sometimes the problem is that we opened up a deep wound and 1 hour has not been enough to process it. When the time is up, I may or may not be able to "put it away" until the following week. Containing has always been hard for me. Other times, i might leave feeling bad because i did not get what i needed from my t -- or i felt misunderstood in some way -- or i wanted to bring something up and didn't -- or i could not feel the connection with her. All of these are reasons why i might leave feeling bad. I expect to have some pretty difficult sessions, but i also expect my t to help me get grounded or contained enough so i can go back to work and do life. I would not feel OK leaving if i was feeling very suicidal. I think a t's job is to make sure we are feeling stable and well grounded before we go. My t told me once, "I can't have you coming here, and then leaving and hurting yourself."

Part 2: It sounds like you recognized pretty quickly that Austin-T was on the wrong track with what you needed. You wanted help with "completion" and not with "understanding the assignment." You were asking the question "How," not the question "What?" It also sounds like you spoke up and tried to explain that to him. But for some reason, it wasn't getting through. That would be frustrating!!!

It kind of does sound like Austin-T was exercising some of his own OCD tendencies (telling you what to write and exactly where to write it). Do you often have the kind of experience with Austin-T that you did this week, or is this rather uncommon? It sounds like the feelings of hopelessness in session happen regularly. Maybe you need to have a heart to heart with Austin-T and clarify very specifically what sort of help you are seeking from him. It sounds like he really cares alot about you and really wants to help. He just didn't go about it in the right way.

hi guys,

thank you all so much for responding, validating my concerns (and mega rant ) and giving me things to think about re: continuing with T in the future. i want to reply properly, but i'm rushed for time right now, so i'll try later tonight (off to a massage with a friend!!! so maybe my reply will be dependent on if i'm so relaxed that i've fallen asleep ).

xo deli

Deli, seriously loved the rant. Therapeutic for me, even. Looking forward to your reply to the other posters.

lol. yes, it was quite a rant (and reading it over - - where did that ranting deli come from?!). maybe i should offer ranting services for the good of PC? seriously, something good has to come from that silly session i had last week .

this is such a useful way of looking at it, thanks tree . i am really going to try and keep that in mind and aim to feel ok on the outside - not let the stuff in the room spill out and contaminate my "real" life. i think that's been part of the problem - that i haven't contained it, and that i don't let Austin-T know that it's even where i am, so he can't contain it either.

(((((SAWE))))) thank you, darling lady. i am going to print out this thread for me to refer to in future. i think i need a list of things to do to "keep going" - not let the depression overwhelm me - and work, sleep, recreation pretty much cover the things i could do to distract myself, right?

i think i need to think seriously about cultivating an attitude of "therapy doesnt have the power to spoil the rest of my week" and work really hard to make that true.

(((((ripley))))))) that's so generous of you to share. i'm sorry you had a similar experience, but by gosh it feels good to know i'm not alone. if you would like to join in on the rant, please do feel free .

this is a good idea, thank you, clk. i don't think i'm at the point where i could let Austin-T see me cry, but... one word, or even that sentence you shared, i think i could manage those. it would be scary, though, because i'm still building up trust with Austin-T. i'm still scared to let him see me being vulnerable. i don't want him to know that i'm feeling that awful.

but i think... maybe if i brought it up next week at the beginning of the session, then i wouldn't be upset already - so i could get it out without emotion? still be in control? not let him see the real me hiding behind my mask?

thank you so much for sharing how it's been for you. i really relate to those multiple reasons you threw out there.

bugger, hey? you hit the nail on the head right there . i think i must have some deeply buried belief that Ts get sadistic pleasure out of making us feel crap. maybe a huge part of this is that i think my old-T was a little bit like that... not that he took pleasure out of it, but he certainly wasn't one for empathy or anything like that. it's weird that you mentioned dream analysis - i was thinking about Austin-T over the weekend, but i kept using my old-Ts name in my head instead. so i guess there definitely is some unresolved tension going on there, quite apart from the crappiness i felt anyway.

yes, part 2 was originally a follow on from part 1, but when i looked at the length of my post i thought i should at least divide it up so that ppl didnt feel obliged to read the whole thing. thank you for getting through it all, sunny .

you're right that i should talk to Austin-T about it. i did discuss it with pdoc last week, but i know it wasn't any real solution. pdoc is great with instilling me with hope, so i left feeling a lot better, but i also know pdoc has a very strong tendency to want to protect me and so his immediate solution to almost anything is to try and give me a way out. so he said if i dont want to continue with Austin-T, then i don't have to. i didnt even mention the sui thoughts.

i think Austin-T would be receptive to what i had to say. i think he probably has been under a lot of stress lately, and his OCPD has probably come out a bit more (OCPD differs from OCD in that the first one's a personality disorder, and can be characterised by being very rigid/controlling/ordered/perfectionistic & having ideas of how to do things in the "right" way). i can totally forgive him for it (because i am very similar myself) but i think it was just his absolute insistence that was the other thing that triggered me off. at the same time, "being controlled" is such a huge deal for me that it is also possible that i grossly overinterpreted his actions. i am sort of hypervigilant about that.

so i guess that makes it two issues now:
1) feeling hopeless/depressed/sui in session
2) being triggered because of the control thing.

fingers crossed i can work my way through them both next week.

peaches - thank you for sharing re: part 1. it helps so much when ppl share their reasons, because it helps me identify some of my reasons for feeling that way, and subsquently feels less overwhelming.

re: Austin-T. i've only seen him for 4 months now, and i've maybe felt the hopelessness thing 3-4 times (but the last 2 sessions were definitely hopeless sessions). it used to be a really regular occurence with my old-T, and i am saddened that i continued with him for so long, so maybe that is why this just feels like too much already, yknow?

thank you for reminding me that Austin-T does seem to care. i need to focus on all the good things he's done for me and try not to interpret the ambiguous stuff as him trying to get rid of me. i think our next session (and the recommended heart-to-heart ) will be easier if i can keep his caring in mind.

Dear Deli - I reallly like this.

Hey maybe we could get some buttons made up...

or some (you should pardon the expression) T-shirts

Thanks for sharing those, deli.

Personally, I found part 2 the more interesting of the two. I did come up with rather an off-the-wall guess as to what was going on. I'm afraid it would be too much of a spoiler to tell you now, but I'd be happy to leave my guess with a trusted third person until the time is ripe (or clearly never will be).

I do think you should talk to Austin-T about what happened -- but keep coming from your own experience of it, not from the opinion (which I notice many here agree with) that he must have mishandled your session.

"i think it's because i see therapy so much as my hope, my source of support, my avenue for change... and when things don't add up i'm left feeling very alone with my crap, and that even the professionals can't help me. it's not even over big things like csa or something. just stupid stuff that most ppl deal with at some point in their lives. "

Deli - yep - me too. And i have gone sui in T before. I never told her. I felt if i told her, i'd lose her for sure. and if i lost her, then i really would have no further reason. she is the reason i am where i am. i just sent her an email today saying that without her and my dr i'd be lost.

((((((((((((((((Deli)))))))))))

you know... it actually took me a really long time to "get" that. deli's brain has gone to mush!!! but LOLOLOL when i finally did - very clever, miss sawe!

i am interested in your off-the-wall guesses. sometimes they say a lot about me, and sometimes they say a lot about you . either way, i find it interesting, yeah?

yes. re: the talk with Austin-T. i do think he mishandled the session, but i don't think it would be productive to point it out. and "mishandled" sounds kind of severe... i think he just slipped into textbook-T mode, given that he's under a lot of stress from his other work commitments now. so it was something a lot more passive.

either way. i'm kind of tossing up between 2 approaches. a) just tell him how upset i was or b) flag that i was upset, but ask about his perception of how the session went last week before i disclose how it went for me. i think the latter could open up a bit more dialogue in terms of how we work together, whereas the first would be more problem solving e.g., "no leaving a session feeling suicidal!". ideally, i guess, i'd want both - but if i started with the latter i'm not sure i'd have the courage to mention the sui- thoughts & depression and stuff.

one thing i am very good at (in my own self-defeating way) is turning off emotion, especially at those times it needs to be expressed. so i dont know.

(((((kiya)))))

that's lovely of you to tell your T how much she means to you. for what it's worth, i don't think she'd abandon/reject you if you mentioned your sui thoughts. probably just have an opportunity to be more on your page, and help you even more effectively (which i'm sure she'd appreciate!).

as for myself, i'm not sure why i have such a hard time mentioning that sort of vulnerable stuff. i think it's just that i don't want T to know he has that much power or that he can get to me so much. and also, i'm ashamed that my thoughts even go that way over something so trivial.

Deli - you have a lot of internal wisdom, did you know? I get told that too and I often don't believe it, but maybe it is because I spend so much time in panic that I don't see it? I notice you have your panic self when talking about self - but when talking to others, you have this deep wisdom that is far older than your phsyical years.
(((((((((((Deli)))))))))))

Thank you. I'd like to think they always say a lot about both of us.

I've PM'd my spoiler to a mutual friend, to be disclosed at some time when you've had your conversation with Austin-T and it's no longer going to be a spoiler to anything you and he are working on. I told said mutual friend, btw, that I didn't much care whether I ended up being noted for my accuracy or my imaginativeness in this instance, I just wanted my guess on record somewhere

(((((kiya)))))) i'm an old hat now but thank you nonetheless. it feels weird (and wonderful) to think that other ppl see wisdom in me, when i typically only think of myself as book smart.

fz - keep your fingers crossed that the conversation happens tomorrow, then. i think i am going to have to sit down with pen/paper and dot point out what i want to say, otherwise i will never have the courage to speak up.

and - i agree - your guesses typically do say a lot about both of us.

Trivial?

Hm. That's a give-away word to a mental distortion going on.

What are you trying to ignore, minimize, or deem unimportant using "trivial?"

but i think... maybe if i brought it up next week at the beginning of the session, then i wouldn't be upset already - so i could get it out without emotion? still be in control? not let him see the real me hiding behind my mask?

Deli This is a really good idea. Then there wouldn't really be a mask, no? You took it off in the beginning of the session. To tell him how you feel after you leave (sometimes) when you get there.

Im going to keep that in mind, too.......

impy, you are like the recognising cognitive distortions poster child . as always, am delighted.

your question is a good one. i struggle a lot with when it's acceptable (for me) to have sui- thoughts. you know i was there in a big way at the beginning of the year, but it was "ok" then, because i had been in such a low depression-funk for all that time.

but having those thoughts because i can't see how to manage my time effectively enough to submit uni assessments on time? i think it's the impulsivity that scares me. i'm not an impulsive person - i consider everything in painstaking detail, and then comb over it again. i'm not allowed to have automatic sui- thoughts over something i haven't yet explored all options to. the uni/time management thing is a big deal, i guess, but in another way it... is a bit trivial and small scale. it hasn't stopped me from going well in the past, so it probably won't interfere too much in the future. i could conceivably carry on without ever fixing it .

but it would be nice to be less stressed about it all. i dont know. not so charmed that you ask the difficult questions now .

! i need my therapy mask!!!

but yes... i think (for me) therapy mask = not showing emotions. it's ok to discuss them in a clinical, detached way - but not to actually feel them at the same time.

so far, i havent even discussed them with Austin-T in my "oh look, there's an emotion" type of way, so maybe this would be a good first step. he keeps encouraging me to name my feelings for him, but eventually i just refused. not allowing anyone in.

so maybe this isn't quite an unmasking (definitely not going there!), but a peeking out of sorts...

with pdoc i am getting better (he would probably be wondering where monster-deli has suddenly appeared from!). most of last week was spent with me ranting about Austin-T. but he's good with picking up on where im at, so we got into the discussion of hopelessness and he helped a lot in that regard. so maybe there are benefits (small ones!) to getting some of those rough feelings out. ick.

good luck with your T tomorrow, sweetie .

so maybe this isn't quite an unmasking (definitely not going there!), but a peeking out of sorts...

Peeking out is a good start....I know that peeking thing

good luck with your T tomorrow, sweetie

OMG! Thanks, Deli Now that it is evening and Im pulling my thoughts together for tomorrow morning Im a little anxious...as in stomach ache anxious...it'll be OK...its only my t

How often do you see pdoc? And Austin-t?
to you....

You're not allowed? Hmph. Says who? Prefer not to, oh yeah. What's big to you is valid. My T told me to practice compassion for myself. Sound like a fit for you, too?