Problem

My therapist has never told me it safe, she told me that we could discuss anything and she meant anything...she left the time and pacing up to me as to when I deemed it safe...

No.

(The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.)

Pachy I think your mother and mine were very much alike.

At the moment I am trying to lose weight, so I would not eat any ice cream!

Sorry, I think this is, without further elaboration, extremely naíve.

I do not find it particularly easy to "just change how I feel about myself". I was not taught to value myself, and it has been quite hard to attain any of that feeling over the years. When I value myself, I turn out to be rather different than most people, I think, and that makes it hard to live sometimes.

I do accept your wishes and feel that you honestly do wish me well. In spite of what you may feel after my responses! And I think you are one of the healthier people around (but there are quite a few of them here also)!

This does not take into account my history; as I said before, in my family asking for something that my mother did not want me to ask for seemed to me to be an invitation to an execution. And not just any execution. I find it hard to overcome this.

Exactly.

(The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.)

It's been about 2 1/2 years, I think. It is hard for me to decide what is too long. I can imagine a therapy which would allow me to progress in a much shorter time. I do learn with this therapy, but it is a very slow and frightening process. I wonder if that is really necessary, or if it is due at least partly to lack of skill on the T's part. In fact I am quite sure that that is part of it. Then what to do? Is there someone out there who is that much better?

I used to (and still do in times of stress and failure) HATE my mother for what she did. But now I am really beginning to see that she was very unstable -- "borderline" if you will. It is quite an education to see reasons for what people do, within a society that has so much condemnation instead of comprehension. That is another thing that I feel sets me apart from most of the rest of society, and for which at times I feel very afraid and alone.

Pachy: I used to (and still do in times of stress and failure) HATE my mother for what she did. But now I am really beginning to see that she was very unstable
SAWE: I am beginning to see it too, unfortunately there is still much more resentment and sadly, hatred, in me for her than understanding at this point. It is something I hope for very much.

Pachy: It is quite an education to see reasons for what people do, within a society that has so much condemnation instead of comprehension. That is another thing that I feel sets me apart from most of the rest of society, and for which at times I feel very afraid and alone.
SAWE: But Pachy!! To be able to see reasons is a wonderful thing! For myself, I count this as among the richest treasures I am gaining in therapy. Instead of just being in the trenches, swinging, I am beginning to form understanding, like the sentient being I am intended to be. You may be in the minority with it but you are not alone.

no, it doesnt take anything into consideration...i guess its just one of those things that are quite simple but NEVER easy.

youre (hopefully) not under your mother's thumb anymore and youre (hopefully) not dealing with such dangerously unstable people anymore, so reacting to this environment in the same way youve reacted in past environments is (likely) not helpful to you. i can defintely understand a child figuring out strategies to try and stay safe in a toxic environment and if not asking for things was (one of) the way(s) to do that i most certainly understand your reluctance to do it now. but its hard to experience a different reaction from someone who is (hopefully) stable and trustworthy if you dont at least dip your toe in the waters trust and vulnerability.

how is someone to show you that they may be at least a little different if never given a chance to prove themselves?

pachy, anger is warranted.

looking back at the whole picture and realizing that your mother was clearly unstable and dealing with her own issues is fine. understanding that she may not have meant to harm you is fine. imagining that maybe she's not a horrible person and if she had gotten help and been well she had the potential to be a great mother is fine.

but the reality is, you were harmed. the person that was supposed to love and protect you did number on you, and anger is warranted. you had to figure out ways to protect yourself, which a kid should never have to do, and anger is certainly warranted. understanding why is not meant to eclipse fact...its meant to create context. i am of the mind (and others may disagree) that intention is irrelevant. whether someone's intent is to harm you or not, if in fact you were harmed, then they are at fault. intentions (or lack thereof) dont erase the consequences of their actions.

but i digress....

That is a very fine expression of the thing, in my opinion.

Do I control them? (Assuming they are present.)

A child does not have the ability to "figure out" strategies. It is a desperate and automatic maneuver, not a strategy.

You know the people who I am more angry with now than with my mother? All those people who did not help me when I needed help. All those people who do not look into causes, who want to put patches on things, and who claim to be doing something while only covering it up. Those are the people who anger me most. The ones who deceive. I guess they too do not do it "intentionally" but they are also ones that I relied upon, and many did not provide help while claiming that they did. Because I was too inexperienced and wanted to believe, I was deceived.

((pachy))

'nuff said. Idea number 1 is deep-sixed.

I'm not saying it is 'easy' to learn to value yourself. After a lifetime of being told by others or yourself that you aren't valuable it will take some work. IMHO, it is well worth the effort. If for no other reason than you're stuck with yourself.

I love that you are different. It is being different that makes you such a special person. The story you told about taking in your friend's cat, and how you built trust was beautiful -- and just one example of how 'being different' is a good thing.

Before you start to think I am being overly optimistic here, let me share with you that I too have always felt different, and that showing my differences would either bring about harm or condemnation. I have spent hours talking with T about this and have realized that so many of the judgmental thoughts in my head are from other people. My mother 'should-ed' us kids to death. There was a list of things we should and should not do and a boatload of guilt if we did not comply. This impacted every area of my life. I found that people in my adult life were threatened by the differences.

As I come to accept that I AM different, and that is not necessarily a bad thing, people in my life are following suit. Instead of being threatened by me, they seem to appreciate my unique approach. I still doubt myself, but I am slowly learning to appreciate all of who I am.

I think your responses are honest...and I could not ask for anything more than that. I am also honored that you include me in the ranks of the 'healthier PC members' I keep posting here because to me, this board provides the sort of support that we all could have used growing up. Someone to tell us we are 'ok' for feeling whatever we're feeling. Someone to send us love when we need it, and someone to just accept us for wherever we are on our path of personal growth.

I hope that one day you can look at yourself and be appreciative of your differences. In the meantime...what would happen if you spent a little time each day being grateful for what makes pachy, pachy? Maybe your mother has had enough time in your therapy hour, and the reason you are feeling so frustrated is that YOU are wanting more time to be seen and heard?

No matter what you decide, I love you for being different. I suspect there are a lot of people who are different on this board, and that is one of the reasons this community is so special.

This was so beautiful to read. I also appreciate your honesty and that you do feel safe and comfortable enough (on the computer, at least) to tell us how you are feeling. And I couldnt agreee more about all of us here being a little "different", but I do believe there are many, many people out there who may or may not be in our lives in RL who are also a little "different" and once we find them we dont feel so alone.

Our family moved to a new area out of the city (for a million reasons) but I didnt have much hope of finding friends. Real friends who I could share with and feel somewhat close to. I didnt expect to find anyone. I am not your average mom. Im a little "different" and I raise my kids a little differently. I have met a lot of people since we moved here b/c my kids are in 3 different schools (teens to tots). And from all of these contacts, I have made a couple (maybe 5 or 6) friends that I have been able to really connect to. What Im saying is that although you feel different and no one can really relate to the pain you have gone through, (and please, I dont want you to think I am minimizing your feelings of being different than other people because your different-ness makes you very special- in my eyes), but that there are others out there and here on PC that can understand this different-ness. They (we) feel this way too and are similarly cautious with people and unsafe situations.

(((((Pachy))))) Can I give you a big hug????

i disagree on that point. children are smart and resilient and able to come up with solutions much better than they are given credit for. the solutions are immature and lacking in forethought. and the strategies are simple yet effective. children are limited in what they are able to control and they are also limited in the life experience that might provide someone with the capacity to "brainstorm," as well as the resources to do so. but that doesnt mean their adaptation isnt a strategy...its not deliberate, i will grant you, but it is a strategy. a desperate strategy conceived to try to ensure their survival, but a strategy nevertheless.

i didnt really understand the "control them" question?

i think that anger is well-placed as well and i most certainly can identify with it given my own childhood struggles. *hugs*

five or six people you can really relate to?! You social butterfly you!!
I count only one - two at the most - and have lived in the same place for 26 years.

Pachy, I was so happy to see that you started a thread. Do you think that this is a step in asking for what you need????

I totally agree with you that your T needs to start EXACTLY where YOU are. If your T doesn't do this, steps will be missed as they try to help you evolve and heal. A good T needs to understand where you are at, at that very moment! It doesn't sound like your T understands where you are at?

Pachy, do you think that you learned some techniques to protect yourself that look (from outside of yourself) like you are trying to control others?

So these reactions of others are mirroring your mother's reactions? There is definitely a power/control dynamic going on for you?????

Because this makes you feel small and weak and without power?

This is pretty funny! I have met chatty people who are all in therapy and on meds! I didnt think that would happen. Maybe I can "sense" someone who is like me and I seek them out. Because I have 6 kids in 3 different schools I have a large pool of parents to check out. Anyway, the majority of people I meet are nice, very nice, but I am usually pretty choosy who I can really relate to.

Or maybe I just talk to much......

Yes- when I am not believed or not heard I feel like I want to disappear. I am not important enough for someone to listen to. It always comes down to feeling abandoned. I am alone. Who would want to listen and understand me?

........ me, for one......

Thanks SAWE- it means a lot to me when you say that

I always feel like such a bother.....and my posts just ramble on and on and on.....

i think we've established that deli is queen of ramble. i used to post on another board where we actually authorised one of the mods to edit my posts to make them somewhat more concise .