abandonment vs rejection

a lot of ppl here talk about their 'abandonment issues'. i have probably used it a few times myself, but i dont really get it/relate to it, to be honest.

one of my big fears is that i will open up/be vulnerable and ppl will reject me. it doesn't feel like 'abandonment', so much, because... i dont know... that word makes it sound like you are somehow dependent on the other person, and i am fortunate in that i have a strong belief in my own ability to get by without the help of others. rejection, on the other hand, feels like coming from a more stable base but where you want just the emotional connection and that gets denied because of who you are.

i dont know if i'm just being pedantic. maybe ppl use 'abandonment' to loosely cover 'rejection' also?

the other thing is that (to me) 'rejection' seems like it is something personal (someone making the wilful decison to reject you), whereas 'abandonment' could possibly encompass other reasons that have nothign to do (in a direct manner) with the person being abandoned - other commitments, inability to provide etc. so, i'd prefer abandonment over rejection, but i dont know if that is just my interpretation on the two.

thoughts?

edit: 3am here. it has just occured to me that maybe i have posted this before? or have i only written it out in my head? sorry if i am posting the same bloody thread again, lol. i really should be in bed.

Interesting question! To me, rejection seems like a value judgement about who I am, that I am unworthy and unacceptable. Rejection makes me feel sad and ashamed. Abandonment is scarier, a profound sort of disconnection from one person or even the human race. For me, abandonment can bring feelings of despair but rejection does not. I do not fear aloneness and quite enjoy being alone, but feeling abandoned is an awful feeling. Of course, rejection is no fun either!

To me abandonment issues come from a sense of always having been alone and unworthy. It is my 'core' position, so to speak. As a child I felt completely unlovable, unwanted and disgusting, and this self belief was reinforced by my parents.
'Abandonment issues' for me are based around this core shame. In daily life pretend it isn't there and I am as good and worthy as everybody else, but a rejection - or the perceived rejection - from another person can trigger this core shame for me. It triggers something far beyond the immediate situation and engulfs me in all the shame and unworthiness I have felt throughout my lifetime.

So that is what I call my abadonment issues. It may be different to what somebody else calls theirs. But it is not simply a matter of being rejected in the present - it triggers an emotionally overwhelming sense that rejection is all there ever was and all there ever will be because - at the heart of it - I am nothing but a rotting pile of s***, not even fit to exist on this earth.

To me rejection is "I don't love you" and abandonment is "I don't care about you".

Hi Deli,

I haven't been talking in the threads you are referring to, but I will give you my opinion on how I see them. For me abandonment is leaving or not being connected, whereas rejection has more of a value judgment associated with it. Abandonment is more, I'm leaving you, whereas rejection is, you don't live up to my standards or I'm disgusted (add your own adjective here) with you as a person and so don't want to associate with you. I guess for me they are not two mutually exclusive things. You can abandon a person without rejecting them, but not necessarily the other way around. (I would have to put more thought into that.)

I also think these are very subjective constructs depending where one is sitting. If person A becomes busy and stops hanging out with their friend (person B), person B may see it as abandonment whereas the other person A may see it as moving on with their life. And how one interprets the situation may have to do with where they are in their life and other stressors and supports that they have. My two cents.

Abandonment to me seems more passive. Like to abandon someone on the side of the road verse... Kicking them out the door. LOL

IDK... I think they both are damaging in unique ways. When rejected you kind of KNOW the status of the relationship. Abandoment...it may take you a while to figure out that you've been placed in the unimportant category.

Deli- I wanted to write my response without reading any of the other responses. So I can give my honest, mish mash of an opinion. Both abandonment and rejection are issues for me. Being terrigfied of abandonment seems to be at the core of me. It seems to be a the core of so many things I do and feelings I have that at first glance would seem absolutely unrelated to abandonment. But is abandonment nonetheless. I'll try to explain....

You said you have a strong belief in your ability to get by without the help of others, I believe many people are that way, but its a safe bet that there hasnt been a baby born that had that ability. In the secure to insecure thread...or maybe it was Dreams thread about attachment, where we were talking about baby-needs, some good points were made about what happens when our earliest needs are not met. The period of time when an infant/newborn baby develops her sense of trust, attachment and who she is as separate from her mother. With a mother who cannot give to that baby enough of what that baby needs, whatever that might be- there are deficits. Is it really possible, not matter how a child compensates for early neglect, to escape unscathed? We can get along compensating, but how well? I dont need to tell you this. You know.

For me personally, it is barely conscious when early (and not so early) neglect and pain are triggered. I can get go into reflex defense mode (Im fine), I can dissociate from my feelings (what happened?), I can feel overwhelmed (become a puddle of tears), I can ruminate endlessly (what did I do? How can I fix it? How can I re-do it?), I can even fight (youre wrong!). But no matter which way I slice it or how I handle it, it is the re-living of such intense early pain. The pain is- I am alone, I have been left, there really is no one who cares, no one who is competent (I can just take care of myself!), no one to idealize, no one but me. And I am surely not enough. And as a baby, I am not enough. If those intense, very early needs arent going to met, what will happen? I believe those needs stay immature and healthy structures of my personality that were supposed to be built on will not be built, not very well, anyway. I will fear abandonment. When I "feel" rejected (any incident that I interpret as rejection), it will bring up feelings of being abandoned. With all that it means to me- unlovable, unworthy, alone, frightened. I was not worth mirroring as a baby, I am not worth anything now.

You said something about being afraid to open up/be vulnerable because you will be rejected . Now, I cannot say what happened to you as a baby (except what I have read here) or how you experienced it, but what is the fear? And if you are rejected? Is it so what? If it is so what, then why the fear? Does it being up for you old childhood/babyhood pain? For me, that is what the fear is all about. Re-experiencing the pain....of abandonment. I am alone forever. Its a heavy feeling. For me, it can be the driving force behind so much of what I do and how I have lived.

OK- so in my mish mash wayof explaining, I think rejection and the fear of it is the disguise my fear of abandonment wears.

I can remember that feeling BlueMoon described when I was very young. But I think I projected it onto my pets. For example, I had parakeets since I was about 8ish....I'd watch them in their cage, and try to make friends with them. I would cry because they seemed so sad and alone..I'd get to the point where I'd feel so tormented thinking of their pain, I'd set them free in the summer. But I think the pain was in me. I don't know how I know this.

After reading this thread, I'm confused. I can't identify or remember my feelings, anything besides the pets. Having an abusive childhood, and neglected - to the point I felt like an adult since I can remember, I must have some abandonment or rejection issues, but I can't connect them to my current state. How do you have the awareness of abandonment and/or rejection feelings? What brought out your awareness? I feel insightful in that I can identify some of my current dysfunctions with my past, but it's all thought/intellectual. When my Tdoc asks me about feelings, mostly I cannot describe them or even find them. Is it that they are so repressed, that I can't access them?

Deli-I don't want to hijack your thread....but I'm having a hard time with identifying my emotions, and this seems like an appropriate place to ask (Deli-if you don't want me to post this here, I'll delete it). However, maybe in some way it will add to the discussion.

Blossom- I think it adds to the discussion. Something we all can relate to. I cant believe you mentioned about pets. I felt so sad for my turtles. All alone and moving so slowly. I also cried at them, too. And now my boys have lizards. I thought the lizard looked "lonely" so I got another one. And these two creatures actually have fun in there. And I feel better! They sleep holding claws. I didnt want the one lizard to feel alone.

I think what brought about my awareness was reading about borderline personality disorder. And talking to my t about it. She made me more aware, too. I so related to everything I read and then I became more aware of the way I respond to the world around me instead of just having the feelings and supressing them. I became more mindful of what I am doing and feeling in any given moment, as opposed to being on auto-pilot most of the time.

I would say to try to be mindful as often as you can of what is going on with you feeling-wise. In each moment, with each interaction. Name some possibilites to yourself. Happy, sad, disappointed, angry, hurt, afraid...

When I have an emotional connection with a person and they leave me I feel abandoned.

If there is a person I want to have an emotional connection with and they push me away or deny me, then I feel rejected.

The pets and projection-I think that's a primitive defense mechanism, BlueMoon, from what I've read. I'm glad I'm not the only one though! I have problems with bugs too...when people kill them, I get triggered. It's sort of odd. I mean, I can understand someone killing an insect if they are scared of it (biting them or to avoid disease or whatever) but when I see people smashing them for no good reason, it saddens me. Why kill a living creature that poses no harm to you? How can people be so cruel? Not judgmental, just sad...I used to be fascinated with insects, such as ladybugs, when I was little.

I will take your advice and be more mindful, and try to identify emotions. when I recently felt and was able to identify strong emotions, it was because I was suddently stripped of my defense mechanisms by a psychoanayst. It was horrible...how it ended up...but my new Tdoc is great. He isn't as psychoanalytically oriented though, and I wonder if that's what I need to work through emotional content. I'm going to talk to him about this next week, it's really been on my mind. Thanks for the advice, BlueMoon.

Deli, i think this is a really good thread!

For me, as much as I can't stand to admit it to myself, I do depend on T in some sense. So for me, there is the thought of being abandoned by her.

I agree entirely with what polarsmom said. I have an emotional connection with T, so that can bring up feelings of abandonment in some situations. I have never in my time with T felt rejected by her. I've had fears of rejection, but have never felt rejected.

I think given the overall strangeness of the therapy relationship can turn feelings of rejection into feelings of abandonment. Although they are two separate things, I believe they can often be overlapped.

Great thread, Deli.

Deli, I feel this way, too!

T sometimes asks me if I was afraid he would abandon me. I always say no, because I figure I don't need him anyway, I am fine all on my own. 'Abandon' to me means excessive dependence (that's my worst fear, to be dependent on him, on anyone). So he reframes it as I'm afraid hell reject me. Yes, definitely--I am afraid he will say I'm stupid, a whiner, etc.

I like polarsmom's differentiation between the two relating to the connection you have with the person. I think that might be very true, though it's hard for me to admit it.

Deliquesce, i agree with you and what most people have posted. But i think also maybe rejection and abandonment are part of the same spectrum....i'm not sure that abandonment can happen without rejection in some form. The rejection in abandonmnt, although not always explicit, sounds to me like 'you are not worth staying around for'.

This post brought back a rather horrific memory, which i never thought about in this context.

Skeksi- I think I feel the same as you do about my T.

Right now I am working on creating a bond with my T. And I am scared about doing so because once I feel that bond, once I feel that emotional connection with him I will feel dependant on him. In a way I am afraid of that happening. I don't want to be 'rejected' either. Who wants their feelings hurt? But I'd rather be rejected now. I'd rather be pushed away before I become emotionally involved. Because after that, to me, if you remove yourself from my life then I feel abandoned. Again.

Not that I am completely alone. It's not like I put all my emotions or needs onto one person. It's just feeling that missing piece. That void. And it's something I truely struggle with. Having this happen and then leaving me to wonder why? what did I do wrong?

This part: hearing that..... hit the nail right on the head.

What if a person 'makes a willful decision to reject you' and you say "Hmmm. That's interesting!"

In other words, what the other person does, and what you do, how you react, are two separate things...

HI Deli,

If you have posted this before I don't remember it! either we are two of a kind or this is new lol....

I readi a little book that was an allegory about trauma and therapy (not much from a literary standpoint) which told the story of a little girl whose Dad took her far out into the woods, and then left her there... eventually she found her way home and when she looked through the windows of her house, there was her family having a great old time together - without her.

It seems that certain relationships in life are basic & serious enough that we do feel a right to get support and care - parents, spouse, children, possibly a few others - and if it can't be given, that's one thing, but if it is simply NOT given, one feels robbed, cut off from one's moorings, and it's traumatic. just my $0.02 (USD)

(((((((((((((((((((( dear Luce )))))))))))))))))

I can really relate to this! I have talked a lot with my T about why I sometimes hold back. In one very interesting session, I told T that I was afraid to completely let go because I had this crazy fear of T leaving me, of losing T forever. We talked and talked and talked about it, and the fear slowly went away, so that I was able to open up more. T has learned that I need reassurance, so she has been telling me how she will be there for me, and it has really helped me to feel safe with T and open up more.

I think it's a great discussion to have with your T! I never thought I had a fear of abandonment until that fear came up, that if T saw my true colors, she would leave me.

i get what youre saying...i was just having a conversation with my supervisor about this yesterday. she was saying (and i think i agree) that you cannot abandon an adult, for the very reason you stated. you are self-reliant at that point, no need to be dependent on another.

i think when people talk about abandoment issues, they are talking about the (perceived or actual) abandonment they experienced at a point where it WAS abandonment, when they were children. the feelings of not being good enough or somehow defective are the same ones they feel as adults when they are rejected. so, yes they have abandonment issues, but no they are not being abandoned as adults....its just that the feelings that arise now are so similar to the ones back then.

i apologize if someone has already said all or part of this...i havent read the other responses yet!

Polarsmom- I can so relate to this. I also wonder why and what did I do wrong when I am/imagine I have been abandoned. I am also working on bonding with my new t, but there is a part of me that is very cautious. As much as I would like to believe that I am OK with becoming attached to her, I do feel a little bit of holding back. I dont want to become dependent on her. And in some way, I enjoy this period of the relationship where I am not terrbily dependent on her but I like her. I feel freer- if that makes any sense. It is also something I also struggle with when I am attached to a t. I can feel abandoned/rejected at a small remark or attitude that wasnt even intended that way.

With my previous t, I never thought I become dependent on her. I liked her but didnt care much. I dont know at what point my feelings changed, but I have a feeling it was b/c of more complex reasons that I thought at first. I wish I had been more aware at the time of when my feelings changed.

Dream- I am very curious- I know you have been seeing your t for 6 mos now, but did you feel this way (afraid of her abandoning you) from the beginning? Or are these "new" feelings toward her?

hi guys

just want to thank you all for your many thoughtful responses!! i have lived the past few days of not being able to keep any food/drink down that i've managed to consume, so i'm waaaaay too woozy to read/absorb anything anyone has said here.

but, i'm doing a bit better today, and hope to read through this thread properly & respond soon. i'm glad that it seems to have sparked discussion here that ppl have a good variety of thoughts and opinions on.

xo deli

(((((((((DELI)))))))))) OMG! Feel better. That kind of thing is awful....sending lots of healing vibes to you