[Sannah]

Hello everyone, my last thread on friendships, and the responses, really got my brain rolling on this issue and I have made even more discoveries. The latest thing that I have realized is that when I am with people who are not my family I have so many emotions that come up. No wonder I have been having trouble with friendships, it is like I am juggling all these feelings when I am with others. And when I have my feelings they can be powerful!

Has anyone else experienced this? Comments? Questions???

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Sannah

when I am with people who are not my family I have so many emotions that come up.

Are you being triggered, Sannah? Do the emotions that come up have to do with the actual, present situation, or do they come out of the past? Is this something for you to investigate?

[Sannah]

Good point Pachy. As I was writing out this thread, this did occur to me and my response was that I really didn't know and I left it at that and went on to read other threads. Now that you have asked me this question, however, you are giving me the opportunity to explore this (thanks!). I'll bet it is triggering. I just knew that putting this out in a thread would get the ball rolling on this one for me.

I had so many bad experiences with friends while growing up. Most of it centered around my lack of empowerment to be my own person when with others. I was an expert follower! I also had such low self worth and I had "branded" myself as a "low life" that I didn't think that I deserved friends who were higher up. Isn't that crazy! So I hung out with the burn outs. With my 20/20 hindsight now, these most likely were the kids with the same problems. Anyway, now I am trying to connect this past experience with today.

This was my highschool experience. Once I was in college and post college I grew beyond that but I still struggled so much. I don't even know where to go with it now. Thinking about it just brings confusion. Please ask questions so that I can refocus and make sense of this!

What kind of emotions come up for you, Sannah??

[Sannah]

Hi Tree, mostly just being upset I guess. It is not sadness. But what is being upset??

[poisonivy81]

I think that being with people other than your family could be a trigger for you. Do you have a history with trauma? Or maybe trust issues? I am a survivor of rape, and being with people other than immediate family has been extremely hard for me for years now. Keeping friends and staying in good relationships has always been hard for me since my trauma. PC has helped me learn to open up more, and try to trust again. You should definately speak to your t asap before you begin any social anxiety symptoms. Hang in there and it will get better. Stay strong.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Sannah

So I hung out with the burn outs. With my 20/20 hindsight now, these most likely were the kids with the same problems.

Maybe not such bad companions!

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Maybe not such bad companions!

LOL - here we all are, right?!

Originally Posted by Sannah

Hi Tree, mostly just being upset I guess. It is not sadness. But what is being upset??

YES! WHAT is being upset?

Before I started therapy, I only knew two words for my feelings: "fine" and "stressed".

So. You feel upset with other people. Is it anger? Fear? Anger about what? Fear of what? Something else?

[Sannah]

Good point Pachy! Too bad we weren't talking about our issues, though! They had learned just like I had learned (from our dysfunctional families) that you just don't communicate.

I am still amazed that I didn't see this as triggering before! Wow.........

Tree, I know that I get angry, but that's a secondary emotion right? I used to be the queen of fear having worked through quite a bit of anxiety. There could be remnants of this still. I think that there might be some control issues here possibly. You know how control of things helps you to feel more secure. What I am thinking is that I just get stimulated when out with people because of a control issue. Do you understand what I am saying? In my home I am in control (of the entire environment) but out with others I am not anymore and maybe this alone is just over stimulating and this is what I think is being upset? (And I realize that I am in control of me and that I can choose to leave situations, etc., it isn't like that. This is just a mistrust of the environment I guess).

Hi PoisonIvy, no, I haven't suffered any trauma. Thanks for your post!

[BlueMoon6]

I have learned in therapy that anger is an easy emotion for many people to react with- expressed as judgement or criticism, but it can actually be fear. Or whatever. Fear of how I feel about myself, fear that they will find out I dont measure up, whatever it might be for you.
Another thing I learned is that control is a way to stuff feelings. What feelings am I working so hard to avoid by controlling this or that? From controlling a conversation to the comings and goings in the house.To keep everything safe enough for me to function. If I were not in control something out of control might happen and then Id have to get it all back in control. Or I might be caught in a situation where I wont know what to! And OMG if I dont know what to do! I'll be seen as the f*** up I really am! It is such and incredible RELIEF to just let go and let things be as they are, especially when out with friends. To allow the friend to take the lead. It can be a fun exercise, too. Just to be in the moment.

I am speaking from what I have experienced, but maybe it strikes a chord with you?Am I way off base here?

[Melbadaze]

Originally Posted by Sannah

Hello everyone, my last thread on friendships, and the responses, really got my brain rolling on this issue and I have made even more discoveries. The latest thing that I have realized is that when I am with people who are not my family I have so many emotions that come up. No wonder I have been having trouble with friendships, it is like I am juggling all these feelings when I am with others. And when I have my feelings they can be powerful!

Has anyone else experienced this? Comments? Questions???

I think my post "learning to chill" ties into this. I too can only "be" witih people for a short time before I want to escape, begin to judge myself. With family where I feel safe, I dont have to have such a strong defence, ie the critical voice that shuts me down which thinks it protects me from rejection. Knowing its me thats doing this as a defence changes everything for me.

[Sannah]

As I was driving a little bit ago to pick up my kids it occurred to me that I am upset with those burnouts! I was and am. Again, I was blaming them for the predicament that I found myself in. Very interesting. In my last thread this theme of me being upset with others came out. I am sure these are linked. I could have never come to this realization without this thread and all of your replies! Thank you so much for helping me to process this. Now I need to run with this new discovery and see where else it leads me to.

Hi Blue, I grew up stuffing my feelings. Now I have learned otherwise but this could be just triggering going on here which is taking me back to the past??

My family and I went to one of those pottery places a few weeks ago to paint the pottery. We were all choosing our pieces and what we wanted to do with it. I was struggling to choose how I wanted to paint my plate. My 8 yr old points to a color and says "Mom, you love this color, choose this one". She was exactly right. It was a perfect choice for me but why the heck didn't I know that! I said something about it at the time and my daughter said "You don't know what you like!" Yes, my darling, I am clueless sometimes about what I want....

I will have to think more on what I am trying to contain concerning how I am feeling about myself when with others?????

You are really lucky Blue that you have friendships.........

I'll go read your thread Melbadaze. Thanks for your post!

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Melbadaze

I realised that when I let myself go I judge myself to much, and its that feeling of thinking I've made a fool of myself that I need to that needs to be confronted,and to allow the unmonitored me to come to the forefront.

concentrate of allowing this locked away part of me to come out,this part that I critize to much

I am so glad that you mentioned this thread Melba because what you have just written up there ^ really hits a chord with me. Letting go and judging yourself......... very good food for thought. Thank you!

HI Sannah,

I can also be very uncomfortable around new people I experience this as anxiety, which is composed of a sense of not knowing what to say or do, a sense of being defective somehow and not wanting others to see that, a sense of being different from other people and not fitting in, confusion about what people expect from me and so on. Basically a lot of negative feelings about myself that lead to a lot of fear. I don't often get angry, unless something happens to push my anxiety past what I can tolerate, especially if I don't feel free to just leave the situation. Hope this might help a bit...as with everything, awareness is the first step, and I guess for most of us the next step is exploring further, like in therapy,or here as you are doing., seems you are on your way!

[Sannah]

Hi Ripley, yes, all of these things that you mention are familiar to me. I have worked on these things and made quite a bit of progress. I used to be really a mess when out with people! I used to blush, try to hide and get really anxious. I have worked beyond these issues and now I can stay calm, if I blush it is okay and I never need to hide anymore. I'm beyond these basic issues but I obviously still have further to go and on this end the issues aren't so concrete anymore and are much harder to identify. Thanks for your post!

[SpottedOwl]

((Sannah))

My 8 yr old points to a color and says "Mom, you love this color, choose this one". She was exactly right. It was a perfect choice for me but why the heck didn't I know that! I said something about it at the time and my daughter said "You don't know what you like!" Yes, my darling, I am clueless sometimes about what I want....

I will have to think more on what I am trying to contain concerning how I am feeling about myself when with others?????

You DID know that it was the perfect color for you -- otherwise how could you have responded so quickly when your daughter pointed it out? I'm not saying you consciously have access to this information, but somewhere inside you DO know what you want/like.

Now, the trick is to bring it out in a safe way. Since you have a supportive family, maybe you could try a 'game' of 'Sannah chooses day'. A day where you have to choose what you want all day. My H does this to me sometimes, and although it can be very frustrating, as long as it is done with a loving approach I also think it can be healing.

How different is you choosing what you like from you getting in touch with what you need?

Secondarily, what if you choose something that you like and other people don't like it? What would that look like, how might that feel?

[purple_fins]

I've been reading this thread with much interest and hope.(for you) I'm very similar to you Sannah,I struggle with friendships..... I haven't a single friend IRL. but I also don't feel comfortable with family even... I think you are lucky to at least have that.(though, I know, at least I'm told- how important friendship is and how it can be healing)

I get such anxiety deep inside when I'm around others(even family though)... but for me it's increased the more they get to know me and the more I get to know them. I havn't any trouble at all with strangers, I can visit and feel comfortable until about the 3rd meeting ...
then, this is me inside-- anxiety takes over. (any wonder I've struggled to stay with forums even!)

I feel such expectations .... like: will they measure up to what I want in a friend and will I measure up to what they want .... will they somehow cause me to lose myself and then I won't exist ... will they say one thing TO me but then say another thing when I'm not around(I grew up watching my mother do this to others ALL the time)
As a child, family was no safe haven for me and neither were neighbors or friends... I think I'm "humanphobic" I'm quite messed up.

It sounds like you are working hard at feeling more comfortable around others...... maybe it was the crowd you hung out with when young, they just left you concerned that some people like them could come around you again?? that could leave someone uneasy-- don't you think?

best to you

fins

[Sannah]

Hi SO, you have such thought provoking posts! All that you said is so true. I do know what I like and want but getting access to it is the issue. Knowing what I like and need is just about one in the same. I like your suggestion. That would be a good exercise! Yes, I am pretty flexible with group decisions unless the choice is very important to me and then I won't budge. Same thing with my husband. I am pretty flexible with him because usually it doesn't matter unless I feel very strongly and then I won't budge. I probably don't get a lot of practice with choices because I do let my husband make a lot of decisions. I guess I should mention this to him. He is very good with things like this so it won't be any problem to discuss this with him. Good point that I don't get a lot of practice with this! Thank you SO!

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by purple_fins

I get such anxiety deep inside when I'm around others(even family though)... but for me it's increased the more they get to know me and the more I get to know them. I havn't any trouble at all with strangers, I can visit and feel comfortable until about the 3rd meeting ...
then, this is me inside-- anxiety takes over. (any wonder I've struggled to stay with forums even!)

I feel such expectations .... like: will they measure up to what I want in a friend and will I measure up to what they want .... will they somehow cause me to lose myself and then I won't exist ... will they say one thing TO me but then say another thing when I'm not around(I grew up watching my mother do this to others ALL the time)
As a child, family was no safe haven for me and neither were neighbors or friends... I think I'm "humanphobic" I'm quite messed up.

maybe it was the crowd you hung out with when young, they just left you concerned that some people like them could come around you again??

Hey Fins, thanks for your post! My first thought with your first paragraph was maybe that you are afraid of intimacy? I had to work through that one and I feel it pop up every once in a while but I won't let it stop me (and this still could be a part of this issue for me?).

With your second paragraph it makes me think of anxiety and being afraid of the unknown??

I'm sorry you didn't have any refuge as a child .

Your last point is spot on. I do have issues with this but where I am in my life right now there isn't any chance for this to happen. (For these types to have access to me.)

Thanks again for your post and I hope to continue seeing you around here!

[kitten16]

Good post, I totally relate to this. When I'm with others, I've basically given up. I feel like they'll never see me -- whatever they need from me I can't give them, what I'm capable of giving them they won't want. They're only looking at the surface, and if my life doesn't parallel theirs completely -- I don't have kids but they do, I went to college but they didn't, I'm married but they're not, I was a humanities major but they're a mathematician, or WHATEVAH -- it ain't going to work. No common ground. And I hate being judged by people who are definitely not superior to me. Sometimes I wonder if I really feel like I'm superior to them? Do I have a contempt problem? Or is that just the way I mask my fear of their rejection? Which is a foregone conclusion. For me it's total helpless depression about social interaction. I can't see any way to change it, and I'm so tired of trying to fit in and engage with others.

Every now and then I'll meet someone who really intrigues me, and then interaction is natural rather than painful. But it's rare.

So yep, you're not alone!

[Abby]

Sannah, it is still great to have you posting. I was greatly intrigued with your post title because that is me all over. Being with friends or potential friends causes me the most amount of confusion and i often feel fear, trapped, consumed, interested, empathetic, joy...yet despite all that, rarely ever any real connection. I believe that if i felt connected to people i would not feel these emotions to the severity that i do because that would remain constant. Consistancy is something i greatly lack!

Anyway, i'm still confused as to how you are affected when you are with other people. Do you feel fear/anxiety? Do you feel overpowered? Do you feel responsible? I know you feel out of control, but is that of your emotions and the consequences of that, or do you feel out of control of other people and their emotions? What about a combination of the two, that you need to control other people because in doing you keep yourself in control? Are you afraid you aren't likable or that they won't like you? I know that sounds pretty similar but it isn't quite, the former only has you as the component, but the latter requires active hostility which kinda means (in my roundabout way) that they have to have something 'bad' in them to dislike you. Mmmm...i think i'm putting my feelings onto your post now though!!

I've been thinking about you being upset and blaming the 'low life' friends you used to have and i thought perhaps your anger at them comes from a sense of shame? At them for who they were, and perhaps with yourself for not being 'good enough' to speak to other people 'higher up' (i'm assuming you meant the social ladder here btw, not extremely tall people ).

I'm similar to purple fins - with strangers i am absolutely fine, i can be confident (sometimes too much so!), and happy to make conversation. BUT, the minute a person reaches out an olive branch of friendship i become totally overwhelmed and want to run away. It isn't that i don't like them and what i feel towards them is simply superficial, but i fear the potential closeness/exposure. I guess i'm still working on intimacy issues, although i don't feel that is the full picture.

Out of curiosity what did you feel when you hung out with the low lifes? Are you scared of feeling like that again? Do you equate your old 'low life' friends with your friends now?

(ps - i don't think you should have asked for questions!!)

[Sannah]

Oopsy, double post...........

[Sannah]

Kitten, what you have described I have experienced too! I have thought of this before, that the people have to be just like me! I always thought that this just wasn't right but then I never continued to think about it. What does this mean that we want people to be just like us?? I have had these same thoughts!

Some thoughts that come to my mind - If people are just like us then there will be no surprises for us and this will help us to feel more secure?

Would this give us validation if people were just like us?

Is this an immature egocentric wish because we haven't developed emotionally completely??

[Sannah]

Hey Abby, my fear and anxiety has been greatly reduced but reminants of it are probably still at work here giving me trouble with this issue. I worked on empowerment quite a bit too, so I really don't have issues with this and my boundaries are pretty good. Feeling responsible, this might be an issue since I probably still think about other's needs before my own to a certain degree. I have worked on this issue quite a bit but remnants are probably still there. I don't think anyone would look at me as someone who controls other people, so this issue wouldn't fall in that extreme but I would probably be sensitive to what others are doing around me. So I wouldn't want to control them but I would be negatively affected by their activity to a slight degree. I hope that makes sense. So I guess it would be a bit of hypervigilance. And I would bet this would come just from triggering because I have learned so many skills but that fear is still deeply embedded in my brain. Previously with triggering, I get into the situation and then tell myself the opposite of my trigger and notice opposite of my trigger and I have had a lot of success with this. I'll put this on my to do list! Being afraid of not being likable is probably very true.

I have definitely been thinking that what I don't like in the burn outs was what I didn't like in myself, this being that I thought I was so low and all the qualities that I assigned to myself (I grew up poor in a dysfunctional and uneducated family and had all the markings of this). So yes, shame.......

This thing about being more comforable with strangers or others who you know won't be intimate is very true! We went to a party this last weekend that is connected to my husband's work and most of the attendees were people "under" my husband, people who we wouldn't be developing relationships with and guess what, the pressure is off for me...... interesting...... So there is still intimacy involved for me in this issue too.

When I would hang out with the low lifes I felt I had no power or identity. I had terrible boundaries. I was a quiet follower who would never stand up for myself so I would do things that I didn't really want to do (skip school, do drugs, be with them period). Ugh...... such a terrible time in my life! We had a cousin move in with us when I was 14. She was 5 years older than me. She asked me "what the heck are you doing?" and this was the beginning of my empowerment because I quit hanging out with these kids and I did some major self improvement. I just needed someone to notice and care and she did.

The people that I am around now do not share ANY similarities to the people I was around in school. I live in the burbs with professionals but I will never forget where I came from so I notice when these professionals are clueless to the other side!

Abby, thank you so much for your very thoughtful questions!